Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 16, 2020 10:59:10 GMT -5
Donald Trump Is Promising ‘Big Action’ on School Prayer to Rally Evangelical VotersPresident Donald Trump is promising “big action” to promote school prayer, tapping into the long-controversial issue of religion in public schools as he seeks to rally the evangelicals who were key to his 2016election. “We will not allow faithful Americans to be bullied by the hard left,” Trump said at a rally with evangelical supporters at a Florida megachurch on Jan. 3. “Very soon, I’ll be taking action to safeguard students’ and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. We’re doing a big action, Attorney General Bill Barr.” Trump did not elaborate on his plans, but he is scheduled to announce “guidance on constitutional prayer in public schools” on Thursday, according to his schedule released by the White House. But while the First Amendment supports the free exercise of religion, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that public schools cannot promote prayer or religious symbols. And legal and religious experts say it’s not clear what meaningful action Trump could take without violating that precedent. Complete article here: Donald Trump Is Promising ‘Big Action’ on School Prayer to Rally Evangelical Voters
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 16, 2020 11:39:05 GMT -5
Nothing stops anyone from praying in any school right now. How you choose to do it is the problem.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 16, 2020 11:44:23 GMT -5
I can't even anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 12:03:36 GMT -5
Nothing ultimately changes here, students can still pray in school, the school can't lead it.
Just pandering for votes, he can say he tried.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 16, 2020 12:14:16 GMT -5
I often hear it said and see it posted on social internet sites the shootings in our schools began when prayer was taken out of our schools.
So can those that claim this explain shootings in churches?
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 16, 2020 12:18:16 GMT -5
The theocrats keep bubbling up. A dangerous trend. I spent 12 years in school having to pray every day and attend mandatory religious services at times.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Jan 16, 2020 13:23:23 GMT -5
I often hear it said and see it posted on social internet sites the shootings in our schools began when prayer was taken out of our schools. So can those that claim this explain shootings in churches? God is lonely.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 16, 2020 13:26:37 GMT -5
I often hear it said and see it posted on social internet sites the shootings in our schools began when prayer was taken out of our schools. So can those that claim this explain shootings in churches? God is lonely.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 16, 2020 13:29:46 GMT -5
Nice are Muslims students going to be allowed to pray? What about Jewish students? Hindu students? Buddhist students?
Oh wait those aren't real religions that deserve protection under the law. It's only Christian that are the victims.
He has to keep feeding his evangelical base if he has a hope of winning.
And who cares if the Supreme Court ruled a long time ago that schools should be secular. That was obviously an evil time when morals were discarded, dogs and cats lived together and chaos ensued. All students starting engaging in sex, drugs and rock n-roll rather than following the righteous path of real American values.
Now we have a Supreme Court that will see things properly and restore balance to the galaxy.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 16, 2020 13:57:36 GMT -5
Nice are Muslims students going to be allowed to pray? What about Jewish students? Hindu students? Buddhist students? ... How about a system in which teachers lead all students doing the same prayer on a given day but rotate around the different religions?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 16, 2020 14:02:53 GMT -5
What is constitutional prayer?
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Jan 16, 2020 14:04:32 GMT -5
Nice are Muslims students going to be allowed to pray? What about Jewish students? Hindu students? Buddhist students? ... How about a system in which teachers lead all students doing the same prayer on a given day but rotate around the different religions? How about not. How about if parents want their children to pray in school they enroll them in faith based schools.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 16, 2020 14:07:38 GMT -5
Nice are Muslims students going to be allowed to pray? What about Jewish students? Hindu students? Buddhist students? ... How about a system in which teachers lead all students doing the same prayer on a given day but rotate around the different religions? You know that wouldn't fly with the very parents who are pushing for this to happen. I am all for teaching a World Religions course so we can better understand our neighbors and hopefully develop some tolerance for others but I am against any prayer in school. No school system should be promoting prayer to ANY religion, that is what your church/temple/mosque is for.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 16, 2020 14:12:23 GMT -5
How about we teach a NO GOD AT ALL class. Imagine.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 16, 2020 14:45:38 GMT -5
Ok, here's my (fake) take on what's going to happen. We already know Trump has classified Judaism as a nationality for discrimination purposes.
I think he's going to proclaim that Atheism which is protected similarly to religions by the Supreme Court, wouldn't believe in prayer to a deity. Therefore it's religious discrimination to prevent people from praying in schools and therefore anyone at any time can pray in schools because NOT allowing them to do so would be the state promoting Atheism.
Otherwise I'm not really sure what he's possibly going to say on the topic which isn't already allowed (frankly the bigger deal in all of this seems to be that individual schools just seem to make up their own rules as they go anyways).
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jan 16, 2020 15:16:42 GMT -5
Nice are Muslims students going to be allowed to pray? What about Jewish students? Hindu students? Buddhist students? ... How about a system in which teachers lead all students doing the same prayer on a given day but rotate around the different religions? Yeah if we push for this, it may be our best hope to end their desire for this. I really don't think the Evangelical Christians want their kids exposed to Muslim/Hindu/Mormon/Jehovah's Witnesses etc. etc. They seem to have tunnel vision and fail to look at the drawbacks to their policy. I guess they think they are in the Majority and they can suppress the rights of the minority religions.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 15:18:22 GMT -5
How about we teach a NO GOD AT ALL class. Imagine. I enjoy that every Sunday morning on my own time, either in bed cuz I stayed out too late the night before, tailgating during football season or enjoying a nice mimosa at an early brunch.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 16, 2020 15:23:20 GMT -5
Ok, here's my (fake) take on what's going to happen. We already know Trump has classified Judaism as a nationality for discrimination purposes. I think he's going to proclaim that Atheism which is protected similarly to religions by the Supreme Court, wouldn't believe in prayer to a deity. Therefore it's religious discrimination to prevent people from praying in schools and therefore anyone at any time can pray in schools because NOT allowing them to do so would be the state promoting Atheism. Otherwise I'm not really sure what he's possibly going to say on the topic which isn't already allowed (frankly the bigger deal in all of this seems to be that individual schools just seem to make up their own rules as they go anyways). But nothing is stopping anyone from praying in schools right now. The schools can't just sponsor a prayer of any kind since it is a governmental entity promoting one religion over another. A daily prayer session where a different religion is featured every day as a cultural learning experience may pass muster because one religion is not being promoted.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 15:26:24 GMT -5
Ok, here's my (fake) take on what's going to happen. We already know Trump has classified Judaism as a nationality for discrimination purposes. I think he's going to proclaim that Atheism which is protected similarly to religions by the Supreme Court, wouldn't believe in prayer to a deity. Therefore it's religious discrimination to prevent people from praying in schools and therefore anyone at any time can pray in schools because NOT allowing them to do so would be the state promoting Atheism. Otherwise I'm not really sure what he's possibly going to say on the topic which isn't already allowed (frankly the bigger deal in all of this seems to be that individual schools just seem to make up their own rules as they go anyways). But nothing is stopping anyone from praying in schools right now. The schools can't just sponsor a prayer of any kind since it is a governmental entity promoting one religion over another. A daily prayer session where a different religion is featured every day as a cultural learning experience may pass muster because one religion is not being promoted. Que up the Satanists, that would get very hilarious, very quick. 😂
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jan 16, 2020 15:27:04 GMT -5
How about a system in which teachers lead all students doing the same prayer on a given day but rotate around the different religions? You know that wouldn't fly with the very parents who are pushing for this to happen. I am all for teaching a World Religions course so we can better understand our neighbors and hopefully develop some tolerance for others but I am against any prayer in school. No school system should be promoting prayer to ANY religion, that is what your church/temple/mosque is for. I agree with most of this. However, I'm not against a prayer group if those students wish to pray with each other outside of a classroom. I was part of a prayer group when I went to public high school. We met outside if it was nice. If nit we met somewhere else quiet before school and said a prayer to begin the day. It wasn't part of any class or even extra curricular activity. Nobody seemed to be bothered and those who wished to participate could whenever they felt like it.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 16, 2020 15:43:43 GMT -5
You know that wouldn't fly with the very parents who are pushing for this to happen. I am all for teaching a World Religions course so we can better understand our neighbors and hopefully develop some tolerance for others but I am against any prayer in school. No school system should be promoting prayer to ANY religion, that is what your church/temple/mosque is for. I agree with most of this. However, I'm not against a prayer group if those students wish to pray with each other outside of a classroom. I was part of a prayer group when I went to public high school. We met outside if it was nice. If nit we met somewhere else quiet before school and said a prayer to begin the day. It wasn't part of any class or even extra curricular activity. Nobody seemed to be bothered and those who wished to participate could whenever they felt like it. And this is totally legal under current law.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 16, 2020 15:45:51 GMT -5
Ok, here's my (fake) take on what's going to happen. We already know Trump has classified Judaism as a nationality for discrimination purposes. I think he's going to proclaim that Atheism which is protected similarly to religions by the Supreme Court, wouldn't believe in prayer to a deity. Therefore it's religious discrimination to prevent people from praying in schools and therefore anyone at any time can pray in schools because NOT allowing them to do so would be the state promoting Atheism. Otherwise I'm not really sure what he's possibly going to say on the topic which isn't already allowed (frankly the bigger deal in all of this seems to be that individual schools just seem to make up their own rules as they go anyways). But nothing is stopping anyone from praying in schools right now. The schools can't just sponsor a prayer of any kind since it is a governmental entity promoting one religion over another. A daily prayer session where a different religion is featured every day as a cultural learning experience may pass muster because one religion is not being promoted. Right, that's what my last line is "which isn't already allowed". Hence I'm guessing he's going to make some decree that doesn't exist today, and say "well now I've made it ok with this decree" even though it's already ok. I'm predicting a weirdo "action" which doesn't change anything and isn't necessary, but which he can point to and say "see, I did this".
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 16, 2020 16:18:48 GMT -5
But nothing is stopping anyone from praying in schools right now. The schools can't just sponsor a prayer of any kind since it is a governmental entity promoting one religion over another. A daily prayer session where a different religion is featured every day as a cultural learning experience may pass muster because one religion is not being promoted. Right, that's what my last line is "which isn't already allowed". Hence I'm guessing he's going to make some decree that doesn't exist today, and say "well now I've made it ok with this decree" even though it's already ok. I'm predicting a weirdo "action" which doesn't change anything and isn't necessary, but which he can point to and say "see, I did this". Is that like trump claiming this past Monday he save pre-existing conditions? AP FACT CHECK: No, Trump didn’t save preexisting conditionsTRUMP: “I was the person who saved Pre-Existing Conditions in your Healthcare, you have it now, while at the same time winning the fight to rid you of the expensive, unfair and very unpopular Individual Mandate.” — tweet. AP FACT CHECK: No, Trump didn’t save preexisting conditions
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 16, 2020 16:24:04 GMT -5
Right, that's what my last line is "which isn't already allowed". Hence I'm guessing he's going to make some decree that doesn't exist today, and say "well now I've made it ok with this decree" even though it's already ok. I'm predicting a weirdo "action" which doesn't change anything and isn't necessary, but which he can point to and say "see, I did this". Is that like trump claiming this past Monday he save pre-existing conditions? AP FACT CHECK: No, Trump didn’t save preexisting conditionsTRUMP: “I was the person who saved Pre-Existing Conditions in your Healthcare, you have it now, while at the same time winning the fight to rid you of the expensive, unfair and very unpopular Individual Mandate.” — tweet. AP FACT CHECK: No, Trump didn’t save preexisting conditionsPretty much. Though I think the real "fact check" is scarier, in that Trump probably BELIEVES he does the things he claims, because he doesn't understand how things already work today.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 16, 2020 16:35:32 GMT -5
You know that wouldn't fly with the very parents who are pushing for this to happen. I am all for teaching a World Religions course so we can better understand our neighbors and hopefully develop some tolerance for others but I am against any prayer in school. No school system should be promoting prayer to ANY religion, that is what your church/temple/mosque is for. I agree with most of this. However, I'm not against a prayer group if those students wish to pray with each other outside of a classroom. I was part of a prayer group when I went to public high school. We met outside if it was nice. If nit we met somewhere else quiet before school and said a prayer to begin the day. It wasn't part of any class or even extra curricular activity. Nobody seemed to be bothered and those who wished to participate could whenever they felt like it. Things like Bible Club were totally allowed in school but it was not a school sponsored club. You could hold it on campus in a class room or auditorium but the school did not endorse it like it does Band or Drama or Football. Quite different from the school leading a prayer over the intercom in which students are expected to participate. I know they don't "have to" but as an atheist I learned real quick that "not participating" when the majority is doing so makes it easy for them to figure out who the "other" is and judge accordingly. The people who are leading this charge are not going to be happy with students opting out or "praying silently to their own God" as the Catholic hospital here likes to put it. Let's call this what it is, Trump is baiting his evangelical base with the notion that eventually we'll become a Christian theocracy. We know darn well if it was a call to establish Islamic prayer in schools that the very same people wanting their "religious rights' protected would be screaming bloody murder about "Shria law" and how America is a "secular nation".
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 16, 2020 16:40:43 GMT -5
I agree with most of this. However, I'm not against a prayer group if those students wish to pray with each other outside of a classroom. I was part of a prayer group when I went to public high school. We met outside if it was nice. If nit we met somewhere else quiet before school and said a prayer to begin the day. It wasn't part of any class or even extra curricular activity. Nobody seemed to be bothered and those who wished to participate could whenever they felt like it. Things like Bible Club were totally allowed in school but it was not a school sponsored club. You could hold it on campus in a class room or auditorium but the school did not endorse it like it does Band or Drama or Football. Quite different from the school leading a prayer over the intercom in which students are expected to participate. I know they don't "have to" but as an atheist I learned real quick that "not participating" when the majority is doing makes it easy for them to figure out who the "other" is and judge accordingly. The people who are leading this charge are not going to be happy with students opting out or "praying silently to their own God" as the Catholic hospital here likes to put it. Let's call this what it is, Trump is baiting his evangelical base with the notion that eventually we'll become a Christian theocracy. We know darn well if it was Muslims or Jews leading this charge there would be a HUGE backlash from the very same people pushing to have their "religious rights" protected. How would the 'you' of today handle it and how would be you feel about it. If I knew then what I know now I would be proud because I don't care what people think anymore. I wish I was that bold and daring when I was a teen. Had to fit in though. Teen survival.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jan 16, 2020 16:43:13 GMT -5
Nice of him to take credit for Obama's work on preexisting conditions. Does this man genuinely do anything positive that he can take credit for? I'm waiting...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 16, 2020 16:44:12 GMT -5
Now I don't care. I have just as much a right to my world view as anyone else. It was actually rather amusing to watch my SIL squirm after listening to her bash atheism for a solid 15 minutes. "She didn't mean me!" No what you meant was you are sorry you got caught. Those are the types of people that want prayer in school. Not people who would lead prayers to multiple deities/religions but people who consider anyone who does not worship their God to be a heathen. Sound familiar? Funny how it's not considered religious extremism or an example of all Christianity when evangelicals do it.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 16, 2020 17:02:00 GMT -5
Nice are Muslims students going to be allowed to pray? What about Jewish students? Hindu students? Buddhist students? ... How about a system in which teachers lead all students doing the same prayer on a given day but rotate around the different religions? My very conservative SIL who lives in an upper income mountaintop enclave insists that the 'majority' religion gets to pick the flavor of the local school prayers, and in her area, that's Christian. I asked her if she was ok with Catholic or Amish or Quaker prayers were used, and she said no, it would need to be main stream prayers, like methodist prayers. (she's a methodist). PTO meetings would be bloodbaths. No one would want their kids exposed to 'those' people's prayers, especially here in the Bible belt. You want your kid to have a religious education, send them to private schools run by your religion.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 16, 2020 17:13:40 GMT -5
I agree with most of this. However, I'm not against a prayer group if those students wish to pray with each other outside of a classroom. I was part of a prayer group when I went to public high school. We met outside if it was nice. If nit we met somewhere else quiet before school and said a prayer to begin the day. It wasn't part of any class or even extra curricular activity. Nobody seemed to be bothered and those who wished to participate could whenever they felt like it. And this is totally legal under current law. Exactly.
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