"I kept the oil"....

[kadee79]

War crime?

At a Wisconsin rally on Tuesday, President Donald Trump lauded his decision to retain troops in eastern Syria to control oil fields there, despite warnings that such a move could constitute a war crime.


The president delivered a characteristically bombastic speech in Milwaukee, touching on multiple foreign policy issues that have come to the fore in recent months.

Among them was America's controversial continued presence in Syria, the recent assassination of Iranian Major General Qassem Soleimani and subsequent retaliatory missile attacks.

"People said to me, 'Why are you staying in Syria,'" Trump said Tuesday. "Because I kept the oil, which frankly we should have done in Iraq," he added, to cheers and applause from the audience. The president has previously criticized his predecessors for not profiting off Iraqi oil wells.

"So they say, 'Trump's in Syria,' I didn't pull out—I did pull out," the president continued. "We have the oil, really secure. We'll see what happens with it."

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-us-troops-stayed-in-syria-because-i-kept-the-oil/ar-BBYYptb?li=BBnb7Kz

[thyme4change]

Oei Vey.

[djAdvocate]

so, let me get this right.

we invade a country for no proper reason whatsoever, and this somehow gives us a right to steal their resources?

using that same standard, I should be able to hire an army of mercenaries and take over Trump Tower.

[hoops902]

Jan 15, 2020 16:14:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

so, let me get this right.

we invade a country for no proper reason whatsoever, and this somehow gives us a right to steal their resources?

using that same standard, I should be able to hire an army of mercenaries and take over Trump Tower.

I feel like this is what you get when you get a career businessman in the WH instead of a career politician.  He does the same reprehensible things that Presidents have done forever, but he isn't smart enough to understanding of policies enough to know to either shut up about it or to put different phrasing to it (personally I think he just doesn't know enough to shut up about it, because I know he has no issues with saying something different that isn't actually true).  

Personally, I'd find it a bit refreshing if someone just said "I'm using military in the Middle East because I want their oil" rather than pretending it's for some other reason like we don't all know why it's really happening. It wouldn't change that I don't want us there, but at least I'd respect someone telling the truth about it.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 15, 2020 16:20:40 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Jan 15, 2020 16:14:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

so, let me get this right.

we invade a country for no proper reason whatsoever, and this somehow gives us a right to steal their resources?

using that same standard, I should be able to hire an army of mercenaries and take over Trump Tower.

I feel like this is what you get when you get a career businessman in the WH instead of a career politician.  He does the same reprehensible things that Presidents have done forever, but he isn't smart enough to understanding of policies enough to know to either shut up about it or to put different phrasing to it (personally I think he just doesn't know enough to shut up about it, because I know he has no issues with saying something different that isn't actually true).  

Personally, I'd find it a bit refreshing if someone just said "I'm using military in the Middle East because I want their oil" rather than pretending it's for some other reason like we don't all know why it's really happening. It wouldn't change that I don't want us there, but at least I'd respect someone telling the truth about it.

I would find that reason more acceptable 20 years ago than now.

we have been a net EXPORTER of oil for the last year.

taking over the Middle East or a portion thereof for oil is really bad economics.

so, yeah.  not so much refreshing as dumb for me.  and illegal.

[hoops902]

Jan 15, 2020 17:10:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 15, 2020 16:20:40 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

I feel like this is what you get when you get a career businessman in the WH instead of a career politician.  He does the same reprehensible things that Presidents have done forever, but he isn't smart enough to understanding of policies enough to know to either shut up about it or to put different phrasing to it (personally I think he just doesn't know enough to shut up about it, because I know he has no issues with saying something different that isn't actually true).  

Personally, I'd find it a bit refreshing if someone just said "I'm using military in the Middle East because I want their oil" rather than pretending it's for some other reason like we don't all know why it's really happening. It wouldn't change that I don't want us there, but at least I'd respect someone telling the truth about it.

I would find that reason more acceptable 20 years ago than now.

we have been a net EXPORTER of oil for the last year.

taking over the Middle East or a portion thereof for oil is really bad economics.

so, yeah.  not so much refreshing as dumb for me.  and illegal.

I find people owning up to their illegal stuff refreshing more than pretending it's not happening or worse that they're doing it for some greater good.  I don't find the REASON for doing it acceptable, but I'd rather at least hear the truth.  I'd rather hear "we're going in there because they have something we want so we're taking it" than "we're going in there on a humanitarian mission, to help the people who live there, to spread democracy and freedom" and then take what they've got because we want it while pretending to be altruistic while we're robbing them blind.

If you're gonna rob me, just rob me, don't pretend you're doing it to help me with some delusional thinking.

[tbop77]

Conservatives have come a long way with President Trump.  Finding his illegal stuff refreshing. That is a new one! #MAGA

[djAdvocate]

Jan 15, 2020 17:16:28 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Jan 15, 2020 17:10:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

I would find that reason more acceptable 20 years ago than now.

we have been a net EXPORTER of oil for the last year.

taking over the Middle East or a portion thereof for oil is really bad economics.

so, yeah.  not so much refreshing as dumb for me.  and illegal.

I find people owning up to their illegal stuff refreshing more than pretending it's not happening or worse that they're doing it for some greater good.  I don't find the REASON for doing it acceptable, but I'd rather at least hear the truth.  I'd rather hear "we're going in there because they have something we want so we're taking it" than "we're going in there on a humanitarian mission, to help the people who live there, to spread democracy and freedom" and then take what they've got because we want it while pretending to be altruistic while we're robbing them blind.

If you're gonna rob me, just rob me, don't pretend you're doing it to help me with some delusional thinking.

are you saying that Trump doesn't have delusional thinking?

because I think that is really funny.

[Opti]

Jan 15, 2020 16:20:40 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Jan 15, 2020 16:14:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

so, let me get this right.

we invade a country for no proper reason whatsoever, and this somehow gives us a right to steal their resources?

using that same standard, I should be able to hire an army of mercenaries and take over Trump Tower.

I feel like this is what you get when you get a career businessman in the WH instead of a career politician.  He does the same reprehensible things that Presidents have done forever, but he isn't smart enough to understanding of policies enough to know to either shut up about it or to put different phrasing to it (personally I think he just doesn't know enough to shut up about it, because I know he has no issues with saying something different that isn't actually true).  

Personally, I'd find it a bit refreshing if someone just said "I'm using military in the Middle East because I want their oil" rather than pretending it's for some other reason like we don't all know why it's really happening. It wouldn't change that I don't want us there, but at least I'd respect someone telling the truth about it.

I disagree. I think Trump is doing more reprehensible things than any other President. You are using a GOP talking point and I think its inaccurate. Do I think a President or two might have done something related? Yes. But never so blatant.

Really I hope it is just one of Trump's usual exaggerations said to make his supporters feel good and swell their hearts to think they have elected such a strong guy.

[Opti]

Jan 15, 2020 17:16:28 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Jan 15, 2020 17:10:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

I would find that reason more acceptable 20 years ago than now.

we have been a net EXPORTER of oil for the last year.

taking over the Middle East or a portion thereof for oil is really bad economics.

so, yeah.  not so much refreshing as dumb for me.  and illegal.

I find people owning up to their illegal stuff refreshing more than pretending it's not happening or worse that they're doing it for some greater good.  I don't find the REASON for doing it acceptable, but I'd rather at least hear the truth.  I'd rather hear "we're going in there because they have something we want so we're taking it" than "we're going in there on a humanitarian mission, to help the people who live there, to spread democracy and freedom" and then take what they've got because we want it while pretending to be altruistic while we're robbing them blind.

If you're gonna rob me, just rob me, don't pretend you're doing it to help me with some delusional thinking.

How do you even know that it is the truth? He refuses to own up to anything illegal he does and this may just be soundbites to encourage his supporters. Do you have any proof he's telling the truth this time?

[happyhoix]

Jan 15, 2020 17:16:28 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Jan 15, 2020 17:10:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

I would find that reason more acceptable 20 years ago than now.

we have been a net EXPORTER of oil for the last year.

taking over the Middle East or a portion thereof for oil is really bad economics.

so, yeah.  not so much refreshing as dumb for me.  and illegal.

I find people owning up to their illegal stuff refreshing more than pretending it's not happening or worse that they're doing it for some greater good.  I don't find the REASON for doing it acceptable, but I'd rather at least hear the truth.  I'd rather hear "we're going in there because they have something we want so we're taking it" than "we're going in there on a humanitarian mission, to help the people who live there, to spread democracy and freedom" and then take what they've got because we want it while pretending to be altruistic while we're robbing them blind.

If you're gonna rob me, just rob me, don't pretend you're doing it to help me with some delusional thinking.

Trump is also claiming he's responsible for the recently announced reduction in cancer deaths in this country - which is actually due to decades of hard work by medical researchers.  Do you find that refreshing, too, or do you only like it when he admits he's committing war crimes? 

Just curious about what makes Trump fans happy. 

www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/trump-takes-undue-credit-for-cancer-progress/ar-BBYQ5UL

[hoops902]

Jan 15, 2020 18:08:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jan 15, 2020 17:16:28 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

I find people owning up to their illegal stuff refreshing more than pretending it's not happening or worse that they're doing it for some greater good.  I don't find the REASON for doing it acceptable, but I'd rather at least hear the truth.  I'd rather hear "we're going in there because they have something we want so we're taking it" than "we're going in there on a humanitarian mission, to help the people who live there, to spread democracy and freedom" and then take what they've got because we want it while pretending to be altruistic while we're robbing them blind.

If you're gonna rob me, just rob me, don't pretend you're doing it to help me with some delusional thinking.

Trump is also claiming he's responsible for the recently announced reduction in cancer deaths in this country - which is actually due to decades of hard work by medical researchers.  Do you find that refreshing, too, or do you only like it when he admits he's committing war crimes? 

Just curious about what makes Trump fans happy. 

www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/trump-takes-undue-credit-for-cancer-progress/ar-BBYQ5UL

Not sure I follow the comparison on cancer deaths.  I find it refreshing when people doing shitty things just cop to doing shitty things.  Usually people who do shitty things pretend they're doing something good.  It doesn't mean I approve of someone doing something shitty.  But again, if you're going to rob me, I'd rather you just say "I'm robbing you, because I want your money" than "I'm doing you a favor, money will corrupt you, and because I'm a generous individual I'm going to take that burden from you onto myself".  In neither case do I approve of someone robbing me.

In terms of "I kept the oil" I don't actually give him any credit for just copping to it...because honestly I don't think it was probably even true.  I think he just wasn't smart enough to understand that the thing he was saying was an admission to something shitty.  I think he thought he was bragging about something good to his supporters.  I don't think it's "refreshing" to admit to doing something shitty that isn't true only because you aren't smart enough to understand that you're admitting to something negative while hoping that you're lying about something positive.  The whole thing has an "Antonio Brown" video vibe (for anyone who doesn't know, he posted a video that he shot where he's screaming at the mother of his children in front of his kids and in front of the police, calling the police all kinds of names, while everyone other than him is on very good behavior.  And he posted it online apparently thinking it was a good idea because he thought it was good for him and bad for them...and it's just horrible for him and paints everyone else in a great light.).  There's a difference between admitting that you're doing something bad...and saying you're doing something bad because you're trying to brag about doing something good (which may or may not be true) but don't understand what you're even saying.

[hoops902]

Jan 15, 2020 17:43:47 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jan 15, 2020 16:20:40 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

I feel like this is what you get when you get a career businessman in the WH instead of a career politician.  He does the same reprehensible things that Presidents have done forever, but he isn't smart enough to understanding of policies enough to know to either shut up about it or to put different phrasing to it (personally I think he just doesn't know enough to shut up about it, because I know he has no issues with saying something different that isn't actually true).  

Personally, I'd find it a bit refreshing if someone just said "I'm using military in the Middle East because I want their oil" rather than pretending it's for some other reason like we don't all know why it's really happening. It wouldn't change that I don't want us there, but at least I'd respect someone telling the truth about it.

I disagree. I think Trump is doing more reprehensible things than any other President. You are using a GOP talking point and I think its inaccurate. Do I think a President or two might have done something related? Yes. But never so blatant.

Really I hope it is just one of Trump's usual exaggerations said to make his supporters feel good and swell their hearts to think they have elected such a strong guy.

Nobody does things as blatantly as he does, that's a problem with having a non-politician in a political position.  The ACTIONS have been as blatant, the language certainly hasn't historically.  We locked up American citizens in "camps" during WWII.  We've sent Americans to kill people in other countries COUNTLESS times.  We've had some Presidents do some pretty horrific things, but most politicians understand to dress it up as patriotism or something.  Trump seems to see an opportunity to boost his personal ego to show off his power, which is unbecoming to most folks.  

He doesn't seem to understand the "how" of things work that everyone else (even non-politicians) do.  If you murder someone, you don't just say "I murdered him because F*** him".  You have to present it as something which is allowed, even if it isn't true.  

Politics is essentially PR.  And it's important to politics.  Part of the problem with things he says is that he not only doesn't understand PR, he THINKS he understands it, but he's 180 degrees off on almost everything.  He might be the only President in history where the best advice would probably be "just don't say anything, ever".  We almost always want our Presidents to talk, to say things, to explain their rationale, to make us feel positive about the country. 

[thyme4change]

Jan 15, 2020 18:08:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jan 15, 2020 17:16:28 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

I find people owning up to their illegal stuff refreshing more than pretending it's not happening or worse that they're doing it for some greater good.  I don't find the REASON for doing it acceptable, but I'd rather at least hear the truth.  I'd rather hear "we're going in there because they have something we want so we're taking it" than "we're going in there on a humanitarian mission, to help the people who live there, to spread democracy and freedom" and then take what they've got because we want it while pretending to be altruistic while we're robbing them blind.

If you're gonna rob me, just rob me, don't pretend you're doing it to help me with some delusional thinking.

Trump is also claiming he's responsible for the recently announced reduction in cancer deaths in this country - which is actually due to decades of hard work by medical researchers.  Do you find that refreshing, too, or do you only like it when he admits he's committing war crimes? 

Just curious about what makes Trump fans happy. 

www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/trump-takes-undue-credit-for-cancer-progress/ar-BBYQ5UL

Not to mention his proposal to cut funding for further research....

But whatever, he cured cancer - single handedly. Blah, blah, blah.

[OldCoyote]

Jan 15, 2020 14:33:10 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

War crime?

At a Wisconsin rally on Tuesday, President Donald Trump lauded his decision to retain troops in eastern Syria to control oil fields there, despite warnings that such a move could constitute a war crime.


The president delivered a characteristically bombastic speech in Milwaukee, touching on multiple foreign policy issues that have come to the fore in recent months.

Among them was America's controversial continued presence in Syria, the recent assassination of Iranian Major General Qassem Soleimani and subsequent retaliatory missile attacks.

"People said to me, 'Why are you staying in Syria,'" Trump said Tuesday. "Because I kept the oil, which frankly we should have done in Iraq," he added, to cheers and applause from the audience. The president has previously criticized his predecessors for not profiting off Iraqi oil wells.

"So they say, 'Trump's in Syria,' I didn't pull out—I did pull out," the president continued. "We have the oil, really secure. We'll see what happens with it."

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-us-troops-stayed-in-syria-because-i-kept-the-oil/ar-BBYYptb?li=BBnb7Kz

Uhhhhh, where is he keeping that oil??

[laterbloomer]

Jan 15, 2020 16:20:40 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Jan 15, 2020 16:14:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

so, let me get this right.

we invade a country for no proper reason whatsoever, and this somehow gives us a right to steal their resources?

using that same standard, I should be able to hire an army of mercenaries and take over Trump Tower.

I feel like this is what you get when you get a career businessman in the WH instead of a career politician.  He does the same reprehensible things that Presidents have done forever, but he isn't smart enough to understanding of policies enough to know to either shut up about it or to put different phrasing to it (personally I think he just doesn't know enough to shut up about it, because I know he has no issues with saying something different that isn't actually true).  

Personally, I'd find it a bit refreshing if someone just said "I'm using military in the Middle East because I want their oil" rather than pretending it's for some other reason like we don't all know why it's really happening. It wouldn't change that I don't want us there, but at least I'd respect someone telling the truth about it.

This is kind of what I was thinking. But I don't find it refreshing. Not even having the awareness that you are doing something wrong scares me more than doing it and lying. To me someone that doesn't think anything they do is wrong has no limits on the shit they will do. And this seems to be true with Trump.

[hoops902]

Jan 17, 2020 10:52:15 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Jan 15, 2020 16:20:40 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

I feel like this is what you get when you get a career businessman in the WH instead of a career politician.  He does the same reprehensible things that Presidents have done forever, but he isn't smart enough to understanding of policies enough to know to either shut up about it or to put different phrasing to it (personally I think he just doesn't know enough to shut up about it, because I know he has no issues with saying something different that isn't actually true).  

Personally, I'd find it a bit refreshing if someone just said "I'm using military in the Middle East because I want their oil" rather than pretending it's for some other reason like we don't all know why it's really happening. It wouldn't change that I don't want us there, but at least I'd respect someone telling the truth about it.

This is kind of what I was thinking. But I don't find it refreshing. Not even having the awareness that you are doing something wrong scares me more than doing it and lying. To me someone that doesn't think anything they do is wrong has no limits on the shit they will do. And this seems to be true with Trump.

To be clear, I said "I would find it a bit refreshing IF...".  

There's a difference between not knowing you're doing something wrong, and knowing you're doing something "wrong" but admitting to it.  Look how long we've been entangled in the Middle East...everyone KNOWS why we're there, and why we just ignore other countries, but I don't recall ever hearing a President say "yeah, we're going in there because they have the oil we value and they're an easy target because no superpower backs them".

There are obvious reasons you can't do that, it's a lot more helpful to military recruitment to paint a picture of "protecting freedom" than risking your life because we want to take control of another country.  I guess I find it extra scummy in some of those situations because nearly EVERYONE knows the truth behind the lie, and it seems like taking advantage of only the dumbest of people when someone lies about something everyone knows to be a lie (and particularly scummy when the lie is convincing people to risk their lives based on that lie).

[laterbloomer]

There are obvious reasons you can't do that, it's a lot more helpful to military recruitment to paint a picture of "protecting freedom" than risking your life because we want to take control of another country. I guess I find it extra scummy in some of those situations because nearly EVERYONE knows the truth behind the lie, and it seems like taking advantage of only the dumbest of people when someone lies about something everyone knows to be a lie (and particularly scummy when the lie is convincing people to risk their lives based on that lie).

Since you went there...I wish I could like this a thousand times!!! This is a big reason I don't generically thank military people for their service. To me it's part of the same "protecting freedom" scam. I believe we need a military to protect our freedom but I don't think we limit our use of them to that and I don't think we appreciate them nearly as much as the propaganda suggests. If we really appreciated them we would make sure they were properly compensated and taken care of when they get home, not just say patronizing "thank yous". And we would use them just to protect freedom and not use them for the benefit of big businesses and corporations.

[thyme4change]

So, we have spent trillions to protect our oil interests. Seems like we could have spent half that on research and infrastructure and would have simultaneously created jobs at home as well as created better technology and saved the planet.

But that would require change, and people hate change. They would rather sit around in their own poopy diapers than experience change.