dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 11, 2020 16:58:09 GMT -5
shot down the civilian airliner...offering condolences and I believe in time will pay restitution to those affected....I am not sure that our Donald, if same type of accident had happened and it was a US action that caused it...the man does not believe in apologizing for anything...something he picked up from his guru, Roy Cohen..who was a convicted criminal...shows weakness in his mind... =========================== www.vox.com/2018/10/30/18037464/trump-rallies-apology-media-mobs============================= For the younger folks here who may wonder how the Donald got to be who he is and also have no clue who Roy Cohen, Donalds mentor and guru...suggest read the following... ========================== "Roy Cohn, who has been described by people who knew him as “a snake,” “a scoundrel” and “a new strain of son of a bitch,” is the subject of a new documentary out this week from producer and director Matt Tyrnauer. It’s an occasion to once again look at Cohn and ask how much of him and his “savage,” “abrasive” and “amoral” behavior is visible in the behavior of the current president. Trump, as has been well-established, learned so much from the truculent, unrepentant Cohn about how to get what he wants, and he pines for Cohn and his notorious capabilities still. Trump, after all, reportedly has said so himself, and it’s now the name of this film: “Where’s My Roy Cohn?” ============================ www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/19/roy-cohn-donald-trump-documentary-228144 |
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 11, 2020 17:38:19 GMT -5
I'll give them that, but why the heck didn't they close the airspace in what was a war zone that night? That is gross incompetence, or worse. Agree with u whole heartedly...and it's been reported that they are putting in new procedures for useing their anti aircraft defenses...missals...In a war zone shit happens...been said that as soon as first shot is fired so many scenarios are out the window... |
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 11, 2020 17:53:24 GMT -5
Kudos to Osama for admitting to 911
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 11, 2020 19:31:08 GMT -5
Are you saying Iran planned this?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jan 11, 2020 20:11:00 GMT -5
You're really giving kudos to a country that first denied the plane was shot down then only admitted to it after multiple countries provided evidence? Prior to the evidence Iran was trying to clean up the debris without letting anyone else inspect it to hide what they had done. You managed to give praise to a country that would have gone on denying the plane was shot down if they could have gotten away with it while using it as a chance to bash the president. Trump and Iran are both terrible but this is straight out of the politics playbook using anything and everything to ones advantage, even the death of innocent people.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 11, 2020 20:53:47 GMT -5
Are you saying Iran planned this? I'm saying it's obnoxious to give kudos over the dead of other countries. |
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 11, 2020 21:29:41 GMT -5
The other thing I wondered about them letting commercial aircraft fly during and right after missile launches was- were they hoping for an errant US reaction? Our forces could have easily misread a radar blip of an aircraft as an offensive threat- it happened once before. If it was intended I’m doubting they would have reacted though... |
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 11, 2020 21:30:04 GMT -5
Are you saying Iran planned this? I'm saying it's obnoxious to give kudos over the dead of other countries. That wasn’t what Dezi said at all. |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 11, 2020 21:39:19 GMT -5
You're really giving kudos to a country that first denied the plane was shot down then only admitted to it after multiple countries provided evidence? Prior to the evidence Iran was trying to clean up the debris without letting anyone else inspect it to hide what they had done. You managed to give praise to a country that would have gone on denying the plane was shot down if they could have gotten away with it while using it as a chance to bash the president. Trump and Iran are both terrible but this is straight out of the politics playbook using anything and everything to ones advantage, even the death of innocent people. I agree I think they only admitted it because the truth would come out sooner or later, and they'd look like asses denying the truth. They're in the position of needing any allies they can find. ' But - if Trump got caught with his hand in the cookie jar (and he has, repeatedly) he'll double down rather than admit the truth, so at least Iran did admit they fucked up. |
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 11, 2020 21:55:07 GMT -5
I'm saying it's obnoxious to give kudos over the dead of other countries. That wasn’t what Dezi said at all. I'm not going to argue with you about this. Iran gets no credit for murdering 176 people and admitting it when they have no choice. To give them kudos over anything is obnoxious. If you insist on doing it that is how it is being taken. |
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 11, 2020 21:56:10 GMT -5
You're really giving kudos to a country that first denied the plane was shot down then only admitted to it after multiple countries provided evidence? Prior to the evidence Iran was trying to clean up the debris without letting anyone else inspect it to hide what they had done. You managed to give praise to a country that would have gone on denying the plane was shot down if they could have gotten away with it while using it as a chance to bash the president. Trump and Iran are both terrible but this is straight out of the politics playbook using anything and everything to ones advantage, even the death of innocent people. I agree I think they only admitted it because the truth would come out sooner or later, and they'd look like asses denying the truth. They're in the position of needing any allies they can find. ' But - if Trump got caught with his hand in the cookie jar (and he has, repeatedly) he'll double down rather than admit the truth, so at least Iran did admit they fucked up. Not being as stupid as Trump is a very low bar. |
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jan 11, 2020 21:56:12 GMT -5
You're really giving kudos to a country that first denied the plane was shot down then only admitted to it after multiple countries provided evidence? Prior to the evidence Iran was trying to clean up the debris without letting anyone else inspect it to hide what they had done. You managed to give praise to a country that would have gone on denying the plane was shot down if they could have gotten away with it while using it as a chance to bash the president. Trump and Iran are both terrible but this is straight out of the politics playbook using anything and everything to ones advantage, even the death of innocent people. I agree I think they only admitted it because the truth would come out sooner or later, and they'd look like asses denying the truth. They're in the position of needing any allies they can find. ' But - if Trump got caught with his hand in the cookie jar (and he has, repeatedly) he'll double down rather than admit the truth, so at least Iran did admit they fucked up. That's really how you're going to rationalize their response? If your kid gets accused of throwing a rock through a neighbors window, tells you to your face they didn't do it, the neighbor shows you video proof and your kid then fesses up is it okay because Donald Trump would have kept denying it? Only in this case it's not a window its 176 people who lost their lives. Wrong is wrong who cares how Trump would have acted when he shouldn't be the metric for right or wrong for any sane person. We should expect others to be a lot better than those we think little or nothing at all of. |
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 11, 2020 23:49:10 GMT -5
That wasn’t what Dezi said at all. I'm not going to argue with you about this. Iran gets no credit for murdering 176 people and admitting it when they have no choice. To give them kudos over anything is obnoxious. If you insist on doing it that is how it is being taken. Keep punching at straw men. |
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jan 12, 2020 0:15:43 GMT -5
I was really wondering if we shot it down accidentally for awhile there. But I feel sorry for everyone involved, it certainly was not intentional, they lost a lot of engineering students and just people. If you want to take it further, if trump hadn't done his assassination the plane would not have gotten shot down, so he has blood on his hands too.
But yes, it was foolish for them to let it fly there at that time, other airlines were staying away.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 12, 2020 1:14:06 GMT -5
I'm saying it's obnoxious to give kudos over the dead of other countries. That wasn’t what Dezi said at all. Thank u...your right...appreciate that...as far as more of a answer....  |
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 12, 2020 1:27:28 GMT -5
That wasn’t what Dezi said at all. I'm not going to argue with you about this. Iran gets no credit for murdering 176 people and admitting it when they have no choice. To give them kudos over anything is obnoxious. If you insist on doing it that is how it is being taken. I don't know your age...following article , incident , may be before your time..or u forgot it or just want to ignore it...but 32 years ago, our Naval forces were involved in a similar type incident...290 innocents were killed...many were Iranian citizens.. When guns go off, bad s**t can happen and sometimes does..I am sure the families and loved ones of those 290 deceased are still hurting today...I don't know if any $ were paid to the families by the US...as compensation of their loss. =============================== "Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided-missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board were killed." =================================== en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 |
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Jan 12, 2020 7:49:55 GMT -5
This is just an assumption but as soon as they started shooting/retaliate to Soleimany’s execution, all war scenarios were in play. That includes anti aircraft defenses just in case the Americans get their planes in the air to counter strike.
Those are generally heat signature guided missiles. That is why the “no fly” zone was necessary. Whomever denied it is the real culprit.
It could be that they didn’t admit the shooting down of the passenger plane at first because they weren’t sure. They maybe hopped that it was an USAF plane sent for them. The system doesn’t discriminate, reads the flying signature and takes the target out.
Was that a big mistake and as a result so many people died? Yes, it is sad but to imply or say that the we’re hoping for an Americans loaded plane is ludicrous! What makes you think that the DOD doesn’t have the list of flights out of airports?
It was a mistake, a grave one but still and they are trying to own the aftermath. At least they are showing remorse and accept guilt unlike many other incidents caused by governments where everyone is running from responsibility.
So yeah! Kudos for admitting it!
For some reason most people think that Iranians are some sort of boogie man that lies and wants nothing other than to kill people especially Americans! I suggest a look in the mirror! Balls, integrity and sense of responsibility were equally distributed by the Creator or Nature. Nobody has monopoly!
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 12, 2020 8:26:25 GMT -5
This is just an assumption but as soon as they started shooting/retaliate to Soleimany’s execution, all war scenarios were in play. That includes anti aircraft defenses just in case the Americans get their planes in the air to counter strike. Those are generally heat signature guided missiles. That is why the “no fly” zone was necessary. Whomever denied it is the real culprit. It could be that they didn’t admit the shooting down of the passenger plane at first because they weren’t sure. They maybe hopped that it was an USAF plane sent for them. The system doesn’t discriminate, reads the flying signature and takes the target out. Was that a big mistake and as a result so many people died? Yes, it is sad but to imply or say that the we’re hoping for an Americans loaded plane is ludicrous! What makes you think that the DOD doesn’t have the list of flights out of airports? It was a mistake, a grave one but still and they are trying to own the aftermath. At least they are showing remorse and accept guilt unlike many other incidents caused by governments where everyone is running from responsibility. So yeah! Kudos for admitting it! For some reason most people think that Iranians are some sort of boogie man that lies and wants nothing other than to kill people especially Americans! I suggest a look in the mirror! Balls, integrity and sense of responsibility were equally distributed by the Creator or Nature. Nobody has monopoly! Well said....  |
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deadeyedick
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Post by deadeyedick on Jan 12, 2020 10:49:34 GMT -5
Kudos to Osama for admitting to 911 LOL |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 12, 2020 10:50:38 GMT -5
I agree I think they only admitted it because the truth would come out sooner or later, and they'd look like asses denying the truth. They're in the position of needing any allies they can find. ' But - if Trump got caught with his hand in the cookie jar (and he has, repeatedly) he'll double down rather than admit the truth, so at least Iran did admit they fucked up. That's really how you're going to rationalize their response? If your kid gets accused of throwing a rock through a neighbors window, tells you to your face they didn't do it, the neighbor shows you video proof and your kid then fesses up is it okay because Donald Trump would have kept denying it? Only in this case it's not a window its 176 people who lost their lives. Wrong is wrong who cares how Trump would have acted when he shouldn't be the metric for right or wrong for any sane person. We should expect others to be a lot better than those we think little or nothing at all of. Where did you get that I was rationalizing their response? They fucked up and shot down a plane that had nearly two hundred innocent civilians (many Iranian citizens) on board. Now they have Iranians rioting in the streets against their own government - which is the right thing for their outraged citizens to do. They'll end up paying out a bunch of money to the victim's families, and no doubt many military people will get demoted/fired, which is also the right response.
The ONLY good thing Iran did was to stop trying to blame this on Western propaganda, which would only have drawn out the unrest in their country, IMHO. They're no longer trying to muddy the water and blame someone else. And while admitting you are wrong won't fix whatever disaster you caused, and you're still obligated to do what you can to fix it, it's good to at least stop whining about how it's someone else's fault Step up and take your punishment like an adult. This is something Trump has never learned, and never will. |
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 12, 2020 13:44:21 GMT -5
You're really giving kudos to a country that first denied the plane was shot down then only admitted to it after multiple countries provided evidence? Prior to the evidence Iran was trying to clean up the debris without letting anyone else inspect it to hide what they had done. You managed to give praise to a country that would have gone on denying the plane was shot down if they could have gotten away with it while using it as a chance to bash the president. Trump and Iran are both terrible but this is straight out of the politics playbook using anything and everything to ones advantage, even the death of innocent people. I agree I think they only admitted it because the truth would come out sooner or later, and they'd look like asses denying the truth. They're in the position of needing any allies they can find. ' But - if Trump got caught with his hand in the cookie jar (and he has, repeatedly) he'll double down rather than admit the truth, so at least Iran did admit they fucked up. They had no choice, every one and their brother knew what happened! |
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 12, 2020 14:08:03 GMT -5
Now that they admitted their atrocity, demonstrations in the streets what are they going to do?
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 12, 2020 15:50:37 GMT -5
Now that they admitted their atrocity, demonstrations in the streets what are they going to do? Funny thing is just more yadda, yadda yet nothing about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655......to long ago? 290 dead.... by the way, fault was the captain decision of our ship... |
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 12, 2020 22:31:07 GMT -5
Now that they admitted their atrocity, demonstrations in the streets what are they going to do? Funny thing is just more yadda, yadda yet nothing about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655......to long ago? 290 dead.... by the way, fault was the captain decision of our ship... Ahhhh yes, that make it all better, Iran has been vindicated!! |
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jan 13, 2020 0:38:48 GMT -5
How can you hold trump harmless? The whole misadventure led up to that. He thought the world would kowtow to him and praise him. He has offended almost everyone he deals with. They ignored him and tried to keep peace.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 13, 2020 1:00:29 GMT -5
Funny thing is just more yadda, yadda yet nothing about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655......to long ago? 290 dead.... by the way, fault was the captain decision of our ship... Ahhhh yes, that make it all better, Iran has been vindicated!! How is making the same mistake our forces made ‘vindication’? |
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 13, 2020 1:55:41 GMT -5
Funny thing is just more yadda, yadda yet nothing about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655......to long ago? 290 dead.... by the way, fault was the captain decision of our ship... Ahhhh yes, that make it all better, Iran has been vindicated!! Of course it doesn't make it better...176 dead...but it shows that even the most highly trained and competent can have screwups...Is there any nation more professional the ours...and our Navy and at the time a comparatively brand new vessel, three years old and at the time one of our most advanced vessels with at the time most advanced weapons...even highly effective today...yet 290 dead. As of right now, Trump is claiming that there was evidence that there were planning for immediate attacks on our embassy's..now up to 4..Personally I don't believe that is important as far as taking out the Iranian General...Personally he was as much a target as say Osama was...but do I believe there was deep discussion on possible fall out..possible better to wait till another less volatile country..say Syria, Lebanon...or if there was information on information of imminent attack as the Donald and his Yes men are claiming...no I don't believe him..just another lie...He has never learned to keep his mouth shut when he should...his ego won't let him just play it cool.. |
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 13, 2020 13:28:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure it's worthy of kudos to admit that you did something, only after you tried to lie about it, tried to cover it up, and then got caught in the entire thing.
I'm not sure "kudos" is really the right term anyways. Maybe "respect" that they admitted to their mistake? But again, I don't think that applies when you do everything you can to avoid taking the blame, then only admit to it after you've been caught.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 13, 2020 15:36:00 GMT -5
that might be true, if you KNEW that you did it.
has that been ascertained?
otherwise, taking the blame for something that was not your fault is f*&King stupid.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 15, 2020 10:10:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure it's worthy of kudos to admit that you did something, only after you tried to lie about it, tried to cover it up, and then got caught in the entire thing. I'm not sure "kudos" is really the right term anyways. Maybe "respect" that they admitted to their mistake? But again, I don't think that applies when you do everything you can to avoid taking the blame, then only admit to it after you've been caught. That they wanted todo their own investigation...get all the facts , I don't find that implausible..It seems that they did admit pretty quickly after investigation was done I believe we too would have held off till we had investigated a similar incident. |
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