Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,355
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jan 13, 2020 18:27:37 GMT -5
Where I live in the northeast (Upstate NYS specifically), electric generation plants use natural gas to generate electricity. Some still use coal & oil. There hasn't been a nuclear plant built in decades & in NYS the odds are pretty good there never will be again. Hydro production varies per year and you never can be sure how much you can produce other than using multi-year averages to project future production. There aren't enough wind farms to satisfy energy needs. Basically, banning natural gas use in new construction for electricity doesn't stop the use of natural gas, which is cleaner to burn to produce electricity than coal or oil. U.S. coal-fired power plants closing fast despite Trump's pledge of support for industry(Reuters) - U.S. coal-fired power plants shut down at the second-fastest pace on record in 2019, despite President Donald Trump’s efforts to prop up the industry, according to data from the federal government and Thomson Reuters. Power companies retired or converted roughly 15,100 megawatts (MW) of coal-fired electricity generation, enough to power about 15 million homes, according to the data, which included preliminary statistics from the Energy Information Administration and Reuters reporting. That was second only to the record 19,300 MW shut in 2015 during President Barack Obama’s administration. The replacement of coal with power generation from natural gas and renewables has cut total U.S. carbon emissions in four of the past five years. Gas emits about half the carbon dioxide, a leading contributor to global warming, as coal. The coal industry has been in steep decline for a decade due to competition from cheap and abundant gas and subsidized solar and wind energy, along with rising public concern over coal’s contribution to climate change. Complete article here: U.S. coal-fired power plants closing fast despite Trump's pledge of support for industry
|
|
phil5185
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 15:45:49 GMT -5
Posts: 6,409
|
Post by phil5185 on Jan 13, 2020 18:37:53 GMT -5
""""hydro-power is not "renewable energy - Because they are idiots""""
It is renewable. All water that was on earth billions of years ago is still here. It cannot travel thru the vacuum or Space and escape. You literally cannot get rid of water - if you boil it, the steam goes up and forms rain. If you water your grass, wash your car, etc, the water evaporates, forms water vapor (clouds) and rains. Surface water finds its way to an ocean (east of the continental divide to the Atlantic, or west to the Pacific). Once in an ocean, fresh water evaporates from the surface into the air, and repeats the Water Cycle. The inertia of falling water (a product of gravity) powers a turbine and generates electricity. The water goes back into the Water Cycle, finds its way back to an ocean, regains its inertial status via clouding (a change of state from water vapor to water - ie, rain), returns to a water shed, flows to a damn, generates more electricity.
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,120
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Jan 13, 2020 18:50:50 GMT -5
Coal is so dirty and has caused so many illnesses that I hope every coal plant is closed.
Same for nuclear power plants. The one close to me is no longer operational and there would be too much opposition to ever get another one built. That is a good thing.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,372
|
Post by thyme4change on Jan 13, 2020 22:14:16 GMT -5
""""hydro-power is not "renewable energy - Because they are idiots""""
It is renewable. All water that was on earth billions of years ago is still here. It cannot travel thru the vacuum or Space and escape. You literally cannot get rid of water - if you boil it, the steam goes up and forms rain. If you water your grass, wash your car, etc, the water evaporates, forms water vapor (clouds) and rains. Surface water finds its way to an ocean (east of the continental divide to the Atlantic, or west to the Pacific). Once in an ocean, fresh water evaporates from the surface into the air, and repeats the Water Cycle. The inertia of falling water (a product of gravity) powers a turbine and generates electricity. The water goes back into the Water Cycle, finds its way back to an ocean, regains its inertial status via clouding (a change of state from water vapor to water - ie, rain), returns to a water shed, flows to a damn, generates more electricity.
Yes, we just have to keep all the non-salt water from becoming salt water, as the evap-rain cycle doesn't work fast enough.
|
|
Apple
Junior Associate
Always travel with a sense of humor
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:51:04 GMT -5
Posts: 9,931
Mini-Profile Name Color: dc0e29
|
Post by Apple on Jan 13, 2020 22:16:44 GMT -5
""""hydro-power is not "renewable energy - Because they are idiots""""
It is renewable. All water that was on earth billions of years ago is still here. It cannot travel thru the vacuum or Space and escape. You literally cannot get rid of water - if you boil it, the steam goes up and forms rain. If you water your grass, wash your car, etc, the water evaporates, forms water vapor (clouds) and rains. Surface water finds its way to an ocean (east of the continental divide to the Atlantic, or west to the Pacific). Once in an ocean, fresh water evaporates from the surface into the air, and repeats the Water Cycle. The inertia of falling water (a product of gravity) powers a turbine and generates electricity. The water goes back into the Water Cycle, finds its way back to an ocean, regains its inertial status via clouding (a change of state from water vapor to water - ie, rain), returns to a water shed, flows to a damn, generates more electricity.
Exactly. I'm in the industry, and hydro is king where it is available. As it should be. (Except in WA state, because it's ran by idiots).
|
|
ripvanwinkle
Well-Known Member
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke 1729 -1797
Joined: Jan 9, 2011 22:36:42 GMT -5
Posts: 1,342
|
Post by ripvanwinkle on Jan 13, 2020 22:29:40 GMT -5
This folly will hit people really hard on the low end of the economic scale. They will have to get major assistance from the states. Which in turn will raise taxes to fund the assistance.
I guess the only comforting thing in this to me is that those who make this happen (unless they have their own power generating plant in their basement) is that they will also pay higher electric rates like you and me. How loud will they complain about rolling blackouts that could last for hours or days?
To all you enviromental greenies....be careful what you ask for. The universe has a wicked cruel sense of payback.
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Jan 14, 2020 9:23:08 GMT -5
""""hydro-power is not "renewable energy - Because they are idiots""""
It is renewable. All water that was on earth billions of years ago is still here. It cannot travel thru the vacuum or Space and escape. You literally cannot get rid of water - if you boil it, the steam goes up and forms rain. If you water your grass, wash your car, etc, the water evaporates, forms water vapor (clouds) and rains. Surface water finds its way to an ocean (east of the continental divide to the Atlantic, or west to the Pacific). Once in an ocean, fresh water evaporates from the surface into the air, and repeats the Water Cycle. The inertia of falling water (a product of gravity) powers a turbine and generates electricity. The water goes back into the Water Cycle, finds its way back to an ocean, regains its inertial status via clouding (a change of state from water vapor to water - ie, rain), returns to a water shed, flows to a damn, generates more electricity.
Yes, we just have to keep all the non-salt water from becoming salt water, as the evap-rain cycle doesn't work fast enough. Global Warming will speed up the evap-rain cycle! Mother Nature does not listen to politicians or anyone else..
|
|
dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
|
Post by dondub on Jan 16, 2020 22:11:01 GMT -5
""""hydro-power is not "renewable energy - Because they are idiots""""
It is renewable. All water that was on earth billions of years ago is still here. It cannot travel thru the vacuum or Space and escape. You literally cannot get rid of water - if you boil it, the steam goes up and forms rain. If you water your grass, wash your car, etc, the water evaporates, forms water vapor (clouds) and rains. Surface water finds its way to an ocean (east of the continental divide to the Atlantic, or west to the Pacific). Once in an ocean, fresh water evaporates from the surface into the air, and repeats the Water Cycle. The inertia of falling water (a product of gravity) powers a turbine and generates electricity. The water goes back into the Water Cycle, finds its way back to an ocean, regains its inertial status via clouding (a change of state from water vapor to water - ie, rain), returns to a water shed, flows to a damn, generates more electricity.
Exactly. I'm in the industry, and hydro is king where it is available. As it should be. (Except in WA state, because it's ran by idiots). National avg./KWh is $13.65. I just received my latest Seattle City Light bill at $8.35 per. What idiocy.
|
|
Apple
Junior Associate
Always travel with a sense of humor
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:51:04 GMT -5
Posts: 9,931
Mini-Profile Name Color: dc0e29
|
Post by Apple on Jan 17, 2020 1:19:26 GMT -5
Exactly. I'm in the industry, and hydro is king where it is available. As it should be. (Except in WA state, because it's ran by idiots). National avg./KWh is $13.65. I just received my latest Seattle City Light bill at $8.35 per. What idiocy. When you consider that it should be even lower due to how much cheaper hydro is, yes, it's stupid. Instead, wind and solar, which are less effective in our area, require subsidies, often don't generate enough power to break-even on expense (if you remove the subsidies), and force hydro to go offline and spill when they could be providing at peak efficiency, are the only "renewable energy" allowed to meet the 15% renewable energy requirement of I-937. Simply being lower than national average doesn't mean that wasn't an idiotic move. Prices could be even cheaper if they hadn't decided to exclude hydro from being an "acceptable" renewable energy. There are things happening this year with hydro, due to the bill, and it will be interesting to see how fast and far the ripple effect goes with future pricing.
|
|