dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 10, 2020 10:44:02 GMT -5
Iran admits it had not abided by the treaty, Who knows what other thing they did not abide to. In May 2019, the IAEA certified that Iran was abiding by the main terms of the deal, though questions were raised about how many advanced centrifuges Iran was allowed to have, as that was only loosely defined in the deal.[18]
On 1 July 2019, Iran announced that it had breached the limit set on its stockpile of low-enriched uranium,[19] which the IAEA confirmed.[20]
Remember they were given billions and billions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to abide, they did not!
Well yeah, they breached that limit AFTER trump violated the treaty by unilaterally abrogating it. So they violated nothing, trump did. And how many times do you need to be told (I know, infinite) that they were not "given" anything. 400 Million dollars, with an M, of their own money was returned to them. We had frozen it here since 1979. also returned, funds paid for weapons never delivered under the Sha....supposedly World Court close to ruling against our keeping the $ that did not belong to us...and granted, Obama and other countries wanted that treaty...wanted the 10 years of no Iranian nucs..thus thev return plus interest...Personally I would have been ok with the principal and forget the interest...but that was me...
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 10, 2020 11:12:12 GMT -5
Maybe Japan should not have bombed Pearl Harbor,, if we are dredging up history! it's almost useless to have a normal rational debate here....raining today trumps fault, dog farted trumps fault, some meanie looked at me wrong its trumps fault....unreal....they rather have an ass kissing, apologetic country then one to be looked up to revered, feared. I think the last administration did nothing but help produce weak, pathetic, whining babies No, we actually enjoy normal, rational debate here. The problem is finding anyone on your side who is capable of it.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 10, 2020 11:47:50 GMT -5
I firmly believe the Donald was offered by his military people while at his resort in Florida that there was a good chance US forces could take out the Iranian General and possible other like folks... With out going to his top military and State Dept advisers for their feelings, possible problems arising from such action, he just gave order to carry out the attack. I understand he was upset because a American contractor was killed when Iranian surrogates attacked a area in Iraq. I am sorry that happened but to be honest, as one in charge of fellow grunts who had to police battle areas and put together the remains of fellow grunts...the loss of one contractor, while regrettable...this was a decision the contractor made...earned great deal of $...and yes there are risks for those who are doing that work. I would have known that we would have a problem with Iraq...attacking anyone with no consultation, heads up on their soil...Remember how Pakistan was so upset with us when we took out Ben Laden...How we would react if allies did anything similar on our soil with out any consultation. Our leaders would go ape shit....u know it. So now their PM under great pressure to do what their elected congressional people have unofficially voted to have the US AND Iranian folks to leave the country....and our President threatens this supposedly ally with great terrible sanctions, the country where over 4000 Americans died...we spent almost a TRILLION $ on... and no , I don't believe there was any intelligence of the Iranian General in deep new talks about planning special attacks...beyond the SOP of planning negative what ever against US interests when ever he was in company of his people... Trump pulls out of nuclear deal that all our allies where on board with...stopped Iranian work on a nuclear weapon for 10 years...at least...Allies who were monitoring Iran compliance of the treaty, all say, Iranians were in compliance...Trump put sanctions on the country...not being a international lawyer but I am thinking that is illegal...a war crime because of the hurt on civilians in Iran...and strong armed our allies to go along with his actions, on sanctions, basically go along with us or suffer the consequences...Great way to make, keep friends and influence people. To put it all on the Iranians as u seem to want to do...and none on the Donald..{no surprise there } does not register with me...in fact as usual ...your wrong.....again. We need to take a strong stance that if just one American dies from another country military actions then that whole country has a strong chance of becoming a parking lot period. So, bomb Iran for the contractor, bomb North Korea for Otto Warmbier, bomb Canada for Chynna Deese....bomb them all into parking lots? There's something wrong with you.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 10, 2020 11:55:12 GMT -5
We need to take a strong stance that if just one American dies from another country military actions then that whole country has a strong chance of becoming a parking lot period. So, bomb Iran for the contractor, bomb North Korea for Otto Warmbier, bomb Canada for Chynna Deese....bomb them all into parking lots? There's something wrong with you. Bomb ourselves for Waco and Ruby Ridge, etc.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 10, 2020 11:58:26 GMT -5
... We need to take a strong stance that if just one American dies from another country military actions then that whole country has a strong chance of becoming a parking lot period. Reminder of effectiveness of large bombing campaigns: The bombing campaigns of the Vietnam War were the longest and heaviest aerial bombardment in history. The United States Air Force, the U. S. Navy, and U. S. Marine Corps aviation dropped 7,662,000 tons of explosives. By comparison, U. S. forces dropped a total of 2,150,000 tons of bombs in all theaters of World War II. link
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 10, 2020 12:03:19 GMT -5
We need to take a strong stance that if just one American dies from another country military actions then that whole country has a strong chance of becoming a parking lot period. How monstrously hypocritical, considering that the United States would have been (justifiably, by your logic) turned into a parking lot many, many times by now, including a number of times just by Iran. Are you ignorant of history, or do you just not give a damn?
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jan 10, 2020 13:03:22 GMT -5
We need to take a strong stance that if just one American dies from another country military actions then that whole country has a strong chance of becoming a parking lot period. How monstrously hypocritical, considering that the United States would have been (justifiably, by your logic) turned into a parking lot many, many times by now, including a number of times just by Iran. Are you ignorant of history, or do you just not give a damn? The difference is this is America. I don't view any other country above us or even close to being our equal. I said before that the world should be held accountable to 5 countries United States, Russia, Japan, China, Germany. That is the real UN.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jan 10, 2020 13:04:55 GMT -5
Well yeah, they breached that limit AFTER trump violated the treaty by unilaterally abrogating it. So they violated nothing, trump did. And how many times do you need to be told (I know, infinite) that they were not "given" anything. 400 Million dollars, with an M, of their own money was returned to them. We had frozen it here since 1979. also returned, funds paid for weapons never delivered under the Sha....supposedly World Court close to ruling against our keeping the $ that did not belong to us...and granted, Obama and other countries wanted that treaty...wanted the 10 years of no Iranian nucs..thus thev return plus interest...Personally I would have been ok with the principal and forget the interest...but that was me... The question is what would have happened if they didn't return the money. World Court what a joke. United States shouldn't answer to anyone.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 10, 2020 13:31:50 GMT -5
I firmly believe the Donald was offered by his military people while at his resort in Florida that there was a good chance US forces could take out the Iranian General and possible other like folks... With out going to his top military and State Dept advisers for their feelings, possible problems arising from such action, he just gave order to carry out the attack. I understand he was upset because a American contractor was killed when Iranian surrogates attacked a area in Iraq. I am sorry that happened but to be honest, as one in charge of fellow grunts who had to police battle areas and put together the remains of fellow grunts...the loss of one contractor, while regrettable...this was a decision the contractor made...earned great deal of $...and yes there are risks for those who are doing that work. I would have known that we would have a problem with Iraq...attacking anyone with no consultation, heads up on their soil...Remember how Pakistan was so upset with us when we took out Ben Laden...How we would react if allies did anything similar on our soil with out any consultation. Our leaders would go ape shit....u know it. So now their PM under great pressure to do what their elected congressional people have unofficially voted to have the US AND Iranian folks to leave the country....and our President threatens this supposedly ally with great terrible sanctions, the country where over 4000 Americans died...we spent almost a TRILLION $ on... and no , I don't believe there was any intelligence of the Iranian General in deep new talks about planning special attacks...beyond the SOP of planning negative what ever against US interests when ever he was in company of his people... Trump pulls out of nuclear deal that all our allies where on board with...stopped Iranian work on a nuclear weapon for 10 years...at least...Allies who were monitoring Iran compliance of the treaty, all say, Iranians were in compliance...Trump put sanctions on the country...not being a international lawyer but I am thinking that is illegal...a war crime because of the hurt on civilians in Iran...and strong armed our allies to go along with his actions, on sanctions, basically go along with us or suffer the consequences...Great way to make, keep friends and influence people. To put it all on the Iranians as u seem to want to do...and none on the Donald..{no surprise there } does not register with me...in fact as usual ...your wrong.....again. We need to take a strong stance that if just one American dies from another country military actions then that whole country has a strong chance of becoming a parking lot period. Oh great, pro-death becomes nuclear genocide.
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dondub
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The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
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Post by dondub on Jan 10, 2020 13:38:07 GMT -5
If just one American dies because Trump and Co. repeal the ACA where should we drop the bombs Ed? White House? Congress? Your house?
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 10, 2020 13:41:03 GMT -5
How monstrously hypocritical, considering that the United States would have been (justifiably, by your logic) turned into a parking lot many, many times by now, including a number of times just by Iran. Are you ignorant of history, or do you just not give a damn? The difference is this is America. I don't view any other country above us or even close to being our equal. I said before that the world should be held accountable to 5 countries United States, Russia, Japan, China, Germany. That is the real UN. You just don't get it. There are at least 3 separate factions with those 5 countries. You, Russia and China don't agree about much of anything. They want the world to become their form of communist. Is that what you are looking for?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 10, 2020 13:48:23 GMT -5
How monstrously hypocritical, considering that the United States would have been (justifiably, by your logic) turned into a parking lot many, many times by now, including a number of times just by Iran. Are you ignorant of history, or do you just not give a damn? The difference is this is America. I don't view any other country above us or even close to being our equal. I said before that the world should be held accountable to 5 countries United States, Russia, Japan, China, Germany. That is the real UN. So, "Don't give a damn" it is. The problem with being a superpower is that you are obligated to lead like one. Might does not in fact make right. Our independence was a battle against the type of world you seem to want. Was our struggle against colonialism wrong? Would anyone else's be today? To abandon any claim to a moral high ground or justice for all is probably not what you really want to do here. The ugliest of Americans, indeed. It is attitudes like yours that will greatly hasten the demise of this country, and in fact the idea of democracy around the world. If attitudes like yours persist and proliferate, we will deserve that demise.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jan 10, 2020 13:55:30 GMT -5
How monstrously hypocritical, considering that the United States would have been (justifiably, by your logic) turned into a parking lot many, many times by now, including a number of times just by Iran. Are you ignorant of history, or do you just not give a damn? The difference is this is America. I don't view any other country above us or even close to being our equal. I said before that the world should be held accountable to 5 countries United States, Russia, Japan, China, Germany. That is the real UN. Translation: 'MURICA! F&*K YEAH!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 14:12:51 GMT -5
I firmly believe the Donald was offered by his military people while at his resort in Florida that there was a good chance US forces could take out the Iranian General and possible other like folks... With out going to his top military and State Dept advisers for their feelings, possible problems arising from such action, he just gave order to carry out the attack. I understand he was upset because a American contractor was killed when Iranian surrogates attacked a area in Iraq. I am sorry that happened but to be honest, as one in charge of fellow grunts who had to police battle areas and put together the remains of fellow grunts...the loss of one contractor, while regrettable...this was a decision the contractor made...earned great deal of $...and yes there are risks for those who are doing that work. I would have known that we would have a problem with Iraq...attacking anyone with no consultation, heads up on their soil...Remember how Pakistan was so upset with us when we took out Ben Laden...How we would react if allies did anything similar on our soil with out any consultation. Our leaders would go ape shit....u know it. So now their PM under great pressure to do what their elected congressional people have unofficially voted to have the US AND Iranian folks to leave the country....and our President threatens this supposedly ally with great terrible sanctions, the country where over 4000 Americans died...we spent almost a TRILLION $ on... and no , I don't believe there was any intelligence of the Iranian General in deep new talks about planning special attacks...beyond the SOP of planning negative what ever against US interests when ever he was in company of his people... Trump pulls out of nuclear deal that all our allies where on board with...stopped Iranian work on a nuclear weapon for 10 years...at least...Allies who were monitoring Iran compliance of the treaty, all say, Iranians were in compliance...Trump put sanctions on the country...not being a international lawyer but I am thinking that is illegal...a war crime because of the hurt on civilians in Iran...and strong armed our allies to go along with his actions, on sanctions, basically go along with us or suffer the consequences...Great way to make, keep friends and influence people. To put it all on the Iranians as u seem to want to do...and none on the Donald..{no surprise there } does not register with me...in fact as usual ...your wrong.....again. We need to take a strong stance that if just one American dies from another country military actions then that whole country has a strong chance of becoming a parking lot period. I apologize, I always thought you wanted to indoctrinate other nations but you just want to kill them all while bankrupting us at the same time. I know you aren't a troll, you really believe this is what we should do. Yikes
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dondub
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The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
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Post by dondub on Jan 10, 2020 15:48:55 GMT -5
Revanchists, jingoists, and hegemonists are all over the right side of our political spectrum.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 10, 2020 16:31:40 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 10, 2020 17:32:53 GMT -5
her dad helped kill 60,000 CHILDREN.
think about that for a sec.
if there were any justice in this world, he would be brought up on war crimes charges.
#roguestate
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 10, 2020 17:36:00 GMT -5
also returned, funds paid for weapons never delivered under the Sha....supposedly World Court close to ruling against our keeping the $ that did not belong to us...and granted, Obama and other countries wanted that treaty...wanted the 10 years of no Iranian nucs..thus thev return plus interest...Personally I would have been ok with the principal and forget the interest...but that was me... The question is what would have happened if they didn't return the money. World Court what a joke. United States shouldn't answer to anyone. if the World Court had the backing of the US, it wouldn't be a joke.
we make it a joke by ignoring it.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 10, 2020 17:37:14 GMT -5
also returned, funds paid for weapons never delivered under the Sha....supposedly World Court close to ruling against our keeping the $ that did not belong to us...and granted, Obama and other countries wanted that treaty...wanted the 10 years of no Iranian nucs..thus thev return plus interest...Personally I would have been ok with the principal and forget the interest...but that was me... The question is what would have happened if they didn't return the money. World Court what a joke. United States shouldn't answer to anyone. "United States shouldn't answer to anyone."and if anyone doesn't agree with your assessment...Say Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany, Switzerlan etc, etc...just use our expensive military on em correct? Make them cry "Uncle"..?
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djAdvocate
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only posting when the mood strikes me.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 10, 2020 17:38:05 GMT -5
it's almost useless to have a normal rational debate here....raining today trumps fault, dog farted trumps fault, some meanie looked at me wrong its trumps fault....unreal....they rather have an ass kissing, apologetic country then one to be looked up to revered, feared. I think the last administration did nothing but help produce weak, pathetic, whining babies No, we actually enjoy normal, rational debate here. The problem is finding anyone on your side who is capable of it. it is almost sufficient cause for one to conclude that there is no rational right remaining.
terrifying thought, actually.
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dondub
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The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
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Post by dondub on Jan 10, 2020 17:46:59 GMT -5
60,000 children from the alleged....side of our political beliefs. He's a war criminal and anyone that supported that stupidity is an accessory. Your tax dollars at work because "United States shouldn't answer to anyone".
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 10, 2020 18:54:20 GMT -5
... I said before that the world should be held accountable to 5 countries United States, Russia, Japan, China, Germany. That is the real UN. That is an interesting list. Why those 5?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 10, 2020 19:04:40 GMT -5
No, we actually enjoy normal, rational debate here. The problem is finding anyone on your side who is capable of it. it is almost sufficient cause for one to conclude that there is no rational right remaining.
terrifying thought, actually.
I have said for quite a while that the GOP has gone batsh** crazy. For the most part, any "voices of reason" it possessed have either left the party or been run off. The moderates are not there. The thoughtful conservatives are not there. The thinkers are not there. The one or two you might be able to name are not being listened to. If we are talking about this board, we could maybe come up with a couple names but even they don't post much. Doubtful they want to try and defend the rest of the nonsense their party leaders are spouting.
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dondub
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The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
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Post by dondub on Jan 10, 2020 19:13:31 GMT -5
Back during Reagan I was spouting the theory that by letting the, ahem, Moral Majority(Christian rightwing) through the door, that the repos were going to have to embrace all the extremistrightwingnutfringe elements of America to it's detriment and eventual demise...of either the Repo party or America as we knew it. Here we are. What comes next.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 19:17:31 GMT -5
Back during Reagan I was spouting the theory that by letting the, ahem, Moral Majority(Christian rightwing) through the door, that the repos were going to have to embrace all the extremistrightwingnutfringe elements of America to it's detriment and eventual demise...of either the Repo party or America as we knew it. Here we are. What comes next..... Barry Goldwater called it.
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dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
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Post by dondub on Jan 10, 2020 19:19:54 GMT -5
Barry WAS an extreme rightwinger in '64. But he mellowed a bit going forward.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 10, 2020 19:26:33 GMT -5
The Moral Majority, which was in fact neither of those things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 19:28:20 GMT -5
Barry WAS an extreme rightwinger in '64. But he mellowed a bit going forward. I think it just goes to say any and all sane element of the GOP has exited. I’d love to get back to debating which elements of the gov should be smaller but instead we have the massive batshit crazy party....... and everyone else.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 11, 2020 9:28:58 GMT -5
Iran admits it had not abided by the treaty, Who knows what other thing they did not abide to. In May 2019, the IAEA certified that Iran was abiding by the main terms of the deal, though questions were raised about how many advanced centrifuges Iran was allowed to have, as that was only loosely defined in the deal.[18]
On 1 July 2019, Iran announced that it had breached the limit set on its stockpile of low-enriched uranium,[19] which the IAEA confirmed.[20]
Remember they were given billions and billions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to abide, they did not!
Well yeah, they breached that limit AFTER trump violated the treaty by unilaterally abrogating it. So they violated nothing, trump did. And how many times do you need to be told (I know, infinite) that they were not "given" anything. 400 Million dollars, with an M, of their own money was returned to them. We had frozen it here since 1979. Do you think Iran would have given us money if directed by the World Courts??
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 11, 2020 9:30:50 GMT -5
Well yeah, they breached that limit AFTER trump violated the treaty by unilaterally abrogating it. So they violated nothing, trump did. And how many times do you need to be told (I know, infinite) that they were not "given" anything. 400 Million dollars, with an M, of their own money was returned to them. We had frozen it here since 1979. Do you think Iran would have given us money if directed by the World Courts?? Yes.
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