tractor
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Post by tractor on Jan 2, 2020 20:16:41 GMT -5
I’m reaching out to the brilliant folks in this group for ideas for my son. He graduated last May from the University of Michigan with a dual degree in physics and astrophysics. He has been applying for jobs ever since, without so much as a return e-mail. Besides wanting to help him out and get him off my payroll, I’d really like him to find something, just to get him started on a hopefully long, productive career.
As you might expect, his math skills are incredible, and he’s open to just about any field and/or part of the country. Can you help me brainstorm/identify some employers who might be looking?
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jan 2, 2020 20:52:52 GMT -5
The only thing I can think of is ......... how crowded is his chosen field? And how good are the credentials of the school? I'm thinking of my g-dtr that has a degree in child psychology from a lousy school, and now she is helping her boyfriend run a bar next to a college. Over crowded degree and lousy school don't make good prospects,
Just to get something on his resume, he might want to look into teaching. Hopefully his communication skills are decent.
Other than that, I don't know
Good luck to him.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 2, 2020 20:55:44 GMT -5
He might want to check out Ask a Manager dot org. She's got advice and info on how to tweak a resume. If he's not getting any kind of response, maybe there's something offputting in his resume?
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 2, 2020 21:01:23 GMT -5
Does his university have alumni and placement services? Has he had internship and co op experiences?
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 2, 2020 21:12:32 GMT -5
Did he work at any internships? What about jobs he worked while he was in school?
What organizations was he active with?
Is he open to working any job? What sort of soft skills did he acquire while in college? Has he considered applying to civil service jobs where you don't need to know someone (as much)?
I think getting jobs these days is all about your connections. I'd encourage your son to work his network. He should be telling everyone that he's looking. How is he spending his time now?
One of my old clients was a physics major as an undergrad. He ended up being a QA intern at a software company for a few years while he was pursuing his undergrad. He acquired some good soft skills, like agile project management. Used those things to parlay into a software engineering career. Then he went back to grad school to be an architect.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 2, 2020 22:12:24 GMT -5
One of my good friends in college was a math major. She applied to Teach for America, but wasn't selected. She moved on to grad school. I looked up my alma mater's physics major description...It looks like you either go to grad school, get a lab job, teach, or find a job where ever generalists are wanted. What about tutoring, in the short term? How did your son do on his standardized tests (ACT/SAT). The place we're sending our son to for tutoring caters to upper middle class/wealthy families (so not us). They are always looking for tutors and what not. Private math tutors can command $40 an hour for tutoring in my MCOLA.
I don't know how one gets their foot in the door as an acutary, but that might be a start. I just did a search on entry level physics jobs and I got everything from software development to a director of educational programs at a museum to a jr. business analyst. ETA: Depending on where he wants to go, he may need to pick up a few more courses to help him be more well rounded. A business writing course, and may another business class or two if he wants to do that sort of thing. If he's leaning towards data analysis, how are is Tableau and R skills? He might need to take a class or two to get some experience there..
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jan 2, 2020 23:16:01 GMT -5
A quick look indicates that the school and their program are plenty good enough, even very good. They even bill themselves as one of the "premier programs." Frankly, it does appear that a BS in Physics best prepares one for grad school. What types of jobs is he interested in? Did he do any internships? Does he have any work experience? What has he been doing since last May/June? One thing you might consider is a job coach and/or recruiter that specializes in the sciences. He might even explore contract work to gain experience. Have you checked this out both by yourself and then with your son? lsa.umich.edu/physics/undergraduate-students/career-resources.html
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jan 3, 2020 7:36:40 GMT -5
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jan 3, 2020 8:10:38 GMT -5
He should be able to join up with any defense contractors also.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jan 3, 2020 8:17:58 GMT -5
Thank you for all the help so far. It’s been a struggle, he really doesn’t want to go to grad school, although I think he needs to reconsider that. He was burned out from undergrad, but as many of you have pointed out, if he wants to stay in the field, graduate school is where it is at. He was a very good student, graduating with a 3.7-3.8(I forget), and was told he would be accepted anywhere he applied.
We have discussed the military, and he hasn’t ruled that out, my mother is married to a retired Rear Admiral and he has offered to help. I think any branch would be a good fit for him.
It’s tough as a parent because I want him to be successful without becoming a helicopter parent defining a path for him. I keep dropping hints and it’s up to him to pick them up (for example I looked at the Pratt & Whitney job site this morning and they have 4,000+ openings), I’m sending him to their website tonight.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jan 3, 2020 8:20:48 GMT -5
I should add, he’s not an introvert and has great communication skills. What he needs to learn from his dad is that it’s OK to be a little apprehensive at first, but sooner or later you have to just jump in and take a chance (it’s defined my career).
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jan 3, 2020 8:34:22 GMT -5
I want to reemphasize the Naval Nuclear Power School Instructor program. A four year commitment, without sea time. Gives him a great first job which could be a great resume builder and instant network. So many options, I chose to go career navy, but had friends go on to grad school, both civilian and Naval Post Graduate school, and so many civilian sector careers, a couple became college professors. He could earn the GI bill for grad school if he doesn't want to make the navy a career.
Plus, he will have a great social life, a ton of coworkers his age that are driven, smart, and mostly single!!
The school was in Orlando, Fl, but has since relocated to South Carolina.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 8:46:55 GMT -5
If he's willing to take actuarial exams, most companies will hire someone out of college with 2 or 3 exams. I was hired with zero but that was 1975. Many students pass a few in college now. I'd recommend property-casualty over life. I worked with many people who had non-Math degrees but with a strong Math background including Engineering and Physics. More info on the career at this link. Insurance sounds boring from the outside- it did to me but it was the only offer I got so I took it. I was hooked early on. If I had it to do over again I'd still be an actuary but would specialize in catastrophe modeling- requires a combination of statistics, meteorology, economics and of course computer modeling skills.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 3, 2020 8:54:26 GMT -5
It’s tough as a parent because I want him to be successful without becoming a helicopter parent defining a path for him. I keep dropping hints and it’s up to him to pick them up (for example I looked at the Pratt & Whitney job site this morning and they have 4,000+ openings), I’m sending him to their website tonight. How long do you plan on supporting him? Is he working now? Why are you dropping hints? Why don't you be direct about expectations and let him figure it out?
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Jan 3, 2020 8:55:29 GMT -5
I work in tech and they always need people with a strong math background. He might be able to get into data science or QA, and that is just on the development side. He could probably also get into consulting in some form too.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jan 3, 2020 9:02:03 GMT -5
It’s tough as a parent because I want him to be successful without becoming a helicopter parent defining a path for him. I keep dropping hints and it’s up to him to pick them up (for example I looked at the Pratt & Whitney job site this morning and they have 4,000+ openings), I’m sending him to their website tonight. How long do you plan on supporting him? Is he working now? Why are you dropping hints? Why don't you be direct about expectations and let him figure it out? I don’t know. I am able to support him forever, which is part of my problem. If he wasn’t such a good kid it would be easy to give him the boot. I will get to that point (maybe), but I’m just not there yet.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jan 3, 2020 9:04:40 GMT -5
How long do you plan on supporting him? Is he working now? Why are you dropping hints? Why don't you be direct about expectations and let him figure it out? I don’t know. I am able to support him forever, which is part of my problem. If he wasn’t such a good kid it would be easy to give him the boot. I will get to that point (maybe), but I’m just not there yet. There is a space for offering guidance and setting expectations that falls between you paying for him and you giving him the boot...
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jan 3, 2020 9:43:23 GMT -5
My parents had both my sister and I paying nominal rent once we were out of school until we moved out.
It didn't cover their cost, but it taught us that living is not free. Neither one of us knew they were putting it in a savings account and gave us the money when we did move out.
Is your son working at all? What's wrong with flipping burgers for a while? DN1, who has the PhD, says the best job he ever had was working for a summer in a factory. He knew he was not going to do that all of his life. He says that he still goes back to that experience when life gets tough and, so far, nothing has been as bad as that job.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 3, 2020 9:48:43 GMT -5
There is a space for offering guidance and setting expectations that falls between you paying for him and you giving him the boot... I will say, it also depends on the kid.
We have to be a little more draconian with my son. Otherwise, he just won't do anything. My oldest girl is way different. She's got it more together than I do.
For us, I think we'll end up extending a 6 month grace period after they are done with whatever schooling, in which we will still support them. Then, the expectation is that they take care of needs, and we'll help out with wants as we can.
We'll also have spent 31 years parenting minors. When my youngest graduates high school, I will be 61..so at that point it will be about half of my life. We likely won't even get a break between parenting and grandparenting. I adore my kids. I love them with all my heart.
I need to have a few years that's not child centric while I'm still fairly mobile. I don't come from long-lived stock. My grandparents passed away in their early. Dad will be lucky to see 75.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jan 3, 2020 10:53:46 GMT -5
University of Michigan is a great school. Given that he graduated less than a year ago, I highly suggest he contact his college and ask about career help. He should still be eligible for all the career counseling services. Given his fields of study, I suggest he look at Boeing, Lockheed Martin, or similar companies. Otherwise, it couldn't hurt to apply for Teach for America. From what I understand, they get a lot of liberal arts majors. I expect they have the demand for someone who could teach math and science.
The other question I would have is what are his expectations? Does he need help lowering them? I ask because my dearest cousin just graduated with her Masters degree last May, as well. Like your son, she has a degree combination that would be seen as highly competitive/very desirable for certain employers (BS Linguistics, MS in Comp Sci - Natural Language). She is also having a hard time finding a job. But part of the problem is her expectations. She believed the bill of goods everyone sold her about what her starting salary should be. And it should be high, but she's been aiming for positions that really do require some job experience instead of entry level positions. (And trying to get her to understand that making only $100k/year in her first job instead of $120k/yr is not happening right now.)
Or is the real problem that he just has really no idea what he wants to do? And therefore has a hard time crafting a resume or cover letter to really fit any of the jobs he is applying for, due to ambivalence?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 3, 2020 11:05:10 GMT -5
Does he have any degree of fluency in a foreign language? Our public school system has multiple Immersion Language tracks and they are EXTREMELY desperate for people who can teach math in a foreign language. My elder is stuck with a horrible math teacher because she is literally all they can find who can teach math in German. There is no one applying from their usual pools.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jan 3, 2020 15:57:18 GMT -5
He doesn’t want to teach, although he would be good at it. I blame his mother, the teacher, who has told him for years to never go into teaching 😐. There are many openings, but it’s just not on his radar.
I do think part of his problem is that he really has no idea what he wants to do, he’s up for anything (except teaching), and he has no expectations for an inflated salary. He needs a starter job to enter into the field and see where it takes him from there. I told him to check out Pratt & Whitney today, they currently have 4,000 openings nationwide. No idea why them, they just popped into my head yesterday.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jan 3, 2020 16:08:30 GMT -5
I'm a retired R& engineer, Space & Defense Industry. During the last 3 years, the Space & Defense Industry has been rapidly building up their technical workforce. Raytheon, General Dynamics, Boeing, Honeywell. Northrop Grumman has bought several businesses (Aliant Tech, Orbital, Spectrum Astro, and others). I've read newspaper articles about new buildings - plans to add 500, 1000, 2000 new people in the next year or two. The ads are mostly for engineers & technicians. Your Physics/Math degrees tend to put you in the 'teacher' box rather than the 'workforce' box. The interviewer asks 'yeah, we know you are good at math, but what can you do?' After you have worked for a year or two, you will be in a position to know what you like, what you do, what you excel at. Eg, I had a Physics major on my engineering team, he had decades of electronics experiences, he worked as a EE. One suggestion - if you interests are in the 'worker' side rather than academic, you might consider adding a few courses and getting an engineering degree. That would put you in a generic category - eg, when a company looks for 500 engineers, you can just get in line. HR already has the listing of your theoretical skills. In your current status, HR has to sort thru the 'what can you do" issue - plus there isn't line for physics majors in Industry. You have the core and the physics/math/chem credits - you will need a few work related courses - thermodynamics, kinematics, statics, dynamics, hydraulics, etc.
As for getting started - it is very useful to have the name of an insider in the company. Many companies post their openings on an internal job site for a few days/weeks before they go outside the company to find new workers - they like to promote from within. So if you know someone a worker who can monitor those sites that gives you a head-start at a known need.
BTW, the Defense businesses have extensive tech writer/editor departments. For new business, we design new innovations for the Govt - prepare drawings, illustrations, write technical descriptions. In practice, we form a temporary proposal team, engineers, designers, editors, writers. Work in a secure War Room for a couple of weeks and put together a publication to submit to the Govt. A lot of invention, innovation, new design, patents, come from these proposal assignments. A good chance for expressing your creative skills. And the tech pubs jobs pay well.
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gambler
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Post by gambler on Jan 3, 2020 17:10:30 GMT -5
I would recommend military officer with those degrees the best fit would be AT or Navy. Four years job training, experience can most likely work aerospace when done.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jan 3, 2020 19:22:58 GMT -5
A lot of folks with degrees in non-lucrative stem fields go into data science. He can get a certification on Coursera in a couple of months. It’s one of those subscription-based learning platforms, where are you can take as many or as few classes as you want. Last I saw it was $50 a month.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 4, 2020 6:54:54 GMT -5
My sister has a degree in straight math. She submitted her resume to the companies that Phil mentioned above. She wound up working in for Lockheed, GeoDynamics and IBM. The company may be able to find a niche for him, with his skills.
Another place might be in the back of Engineering journals. I know that they still do advertise there looking for people, and the skills they want are diverse. He might find a fit there.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on Jan 4, 2020 7:35:18 GMT -5
My nephew the Math major is in Utah working for a Solar Panel company. Tractor, there are lots of fantastic tips from this group!
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jan 4, 2020 17:17:08 GMT -5
My nephew the Math major is in Utah working for a Solar Panel company. Tractor, there are lots of fantastic tips from this group! I know, thank you to everyone!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2020 19:02:03 GMT -5
My sister has a degree in straight math. She submitted her resume to the companies that Phil mentioned above. She wound up working in for Lockheed, GeoDynamics and IBM. The company may be able to find a niche for him, with his skills. Another place might be in the back of Engineering journals. I know that they still do advertise there looking for people, and the skills they want are diverse. He might find a fit there. In contrast with gay math? lol
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jan 7, 2020 18:43:49 GMT -5
Tractor, I think your son should consider focusing on careers that rely on his math skills, rather than his degree in physics. I have a neighbor who retired from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. His assessment is that, fundamentally, physicists are a dime a dozen. Lots of degrees granted with relatively few jobs in physics. As an engineer, the neighbor was paid more than the physicists got paid. Supply and demand.
DW has a nephew whose undergrad major was math. Did a Masters in data analytics. He’s a baseball fan. Just accepted a job with the Padres after spending several years with Tampa Bay. If I understood correctly, nine teams expressed interest enough to talk with him. He had his choice of several job offers. Data analytics, as a career, looks like it’s where computers and IT were 40 or 50 years ago. Businesses are starting to try to figure out what they can learn by looking at the data they have spent decades capturing and accumulating.
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