S&P500 Stock Index performance by President

[Value Buy]

Many posters here still refuse to acknowledge how well the stock markets have performed under Trump, and continue to tell us it is all beause Obama did so well. Here are some numbers put out by CNBC this morning on how the S&P 500 Index has performed under our previous Presidents.

26.5% Reagan
47.8% Bush I  (four yrs)
45.3% Clinton
-23.5% Bush II
30.95% Obama
51.8% Trump (approximate three yrs)

So to summarize, Trump has been good for the markets and everyone's retirement portfolios.
Based on how our personal IRA's performed this year, investors with funds outside of retirement accounts are going to be paying a shitload of federal and state income taxes in the 4th qtr. Look for positive inflows into the government tax revenue in January through April.
Balance the budget? Heck no.
Increase revenue to the government? Heck yes.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

So to summarize, Trump has been good for the markets and everyone's retirement portfolios.

No denying that, but the lower middle class aren't invested or seeing any of this. And his negative policies on the environment, our world standing with our allies and higher prices. Trump only thinks of himself, he proves it almost everyday.

[Value Buy]

Dec 27, 2019 11:36:31 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

So to summarize, Trump has been good for the markets and everyone's retirement portfolios.

No denying that, but the lower middle class aren't invested or seeing any of this. And his negative policies on the environment, our world standing with our allies and higher prices. Trump only thinks of himself, he proves it almost everyday.

C'mon Ken sit back and enjoy the ride. You can always donate all your perceived ill gotten gains if you really feel that badly.
This morning on CNBC James Stewart who is in no way shape or form a supporter of Trump acknowledged the economy is booming because so many of the poor now have jobs and this specific demographic spends almost all of their income because they have so little etc. He admitted as they continue employment they will be better off.
I am happy they are coming along for the ride.

[Deleted]

What specific posters are refusing to acknowledge this?

I have simply pointed out it has been done on a record level of government debt that will be a huge problem in the future, something you had concern with in posts back in 2013 but have changed your view now with the current person in the oval office.

Lets just borrow a shit ton of money to keep the good times going now while ignoring the future.

[billisonboard]

Dec 27, 2019 11:43:06 GMT -5 @aj said:

What specific posters are refusing to acknowledge this?

I have simply pointed out it has been done on a record level of government debt that will be a huge problem in the future, something you had concern with in posts back in 2013 but have changed your view now with the current person in the oval office.

Lets just borrow a shit ton of money to keep the good times going now while ignoring the future.

Lets just increase harm to the environment to keep the good times going now while ignoring the future.

Lets just ignore presidential misconduct to keep the good times going now while ignoring the future.

[Value Buy]

Dec 27, 2019 11:43:06 GMT -5 @aj said:

What specific posters are refusing to acknowledge this?

I have simply pointed out it has been done on a record level of government debt that will be a huge problem in the future, something you had concern with in posts back in 2013 but have changed your view now with the current person in the oval office.

Lets just borrow a shit ton of money to keep the good times going now while ignoring the future.

Can we just agree, although the negative income generation did not start with the boomer generation, none of us have done anything to stop the spending?
Until the people demand it, it ain't happening, and even then I doubt it would happen then because the majority are on the receiving end these days and they demand more, be it the poor or the Military Industrial Complex.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

I'm not the kind of person who can sit back while I'm doing well and watch the poor work 2+ jobs to put food on the table. I am giving back now BTW. I remember a time when I worked a full time job (good paying), part time job and reserves one weekend a month. We both worked hard and smart but I believe there was more opportunity back then.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2019 11:50:39 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 27, 2019 11:43:06 GMT -5 @aj said:

What specific posters are refusing to acknowledge this?

I have simply pointed out it has been done on a record level of government debt that will be a huge problem in the future, something you had concern with in posts back in 2013 but have changed your view now with the current person in the oval office.

Lets just borrow a shit ton of money to keep the good times going now while ignoring the future.

Can we just agree, although the negative income generation did not start with the boomer generation, none of us have done anything to stop the spending?
Until the people demand it, it ain't happening, and even then I doubt it would happen then because the majority are on the receiving end these days and they demand more, be it the poor or the Military Industrial Complex.

Nobody is arguing that either.  I just don't understand why you have given in on the issue and are touting the economy when on the balance sheet Rome is burning like it never has before.

There is salvation though, a 2020 candidate talking about the National Debt:

““Both parties are asleep on the issue. The national debt is a generational issue, just like climate change. I’ve been talking to millennials about it and they get it. I’ve told them unless you take action now, you can forget about Social Security.”

“Change has to come to Washington. Republicans have to get their act together,” Weld said. “I’m the opposite of most Democrats that are just proposing throwing more money at everything.”

www.foxnews.com/politics/national-debt-disappears-as-2020-campaign-issue

[Gardening Grandma]

trump inherited a healthy economy.  His predecessor inherited a mess; a near worldwide depression and turned it around

  the Impeaced One's supporters refuse to acknowledge those facts and instead keep touting the sugar high that is going to crash.

[dondub]

And as I have shown numerous times the Obama DJIA gains have always surpassed those of Trump. Last time I did it Obama gains were 50% higher.

[dondub]

VB....go ahead and give Obama some credit for setting the stage with his own tremendous market gains. We were lifted out of the BushCo. Crash and put on the track forward. It won’t even hurt if you’re honest about it.

[tallguy]

Dec 27, 2019 11:41:54 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 27, 2019 11:36:31 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

No denying that, but the lower middle class aren't invested or seeing any of this. And his negative policies on the environment, our world standing with our allies and higher prices. Trump only thinks of himself, he proves it almost everyday.

C'mon Ken sit back and enjoy the ride. You can always donate all your perceived ill gotten gains if you really feel that badly.
This morning on CNBC James Stewart who is in no way shape or form a supporter of Trump acknowledged the economy is booming because so many of the poor now have jobs and this specific demographic spends almost all of their income because they have so little etc. He admitted as they continue employment they will be better off.
I am happy they are coming along for the ride.

Which is EXACTLY why any tax cuts, to justify the stimulative effect those touting them claim, HAVE TO be targeted to the lower and lower-middle classes.  Because they DO spend the money.  Tax cuts targeted toward the upper-middle class and the wealthy do not stimulate the economy to anywhere near the same degree, and have as their primary effect the blowing up of the deficit and debt.  This makes them harmful to our future more than they help by creating what has been called a temporary "sugar high" for the economy. 

Note that I am not calling for tax cuts for any demographic at this point in time.  We are in a good economic period, and have been for a decade.  We should be running a surplus during good times and reducing our debt, not spending or cutting ourselves into oblivion.  I am also not in favor of a balanced-budget amendment, because there are two occasions when government SHOULD run a deficit.  Recession and war.  Other than that, our politicians are happily rolling down the road to our demise with their ill-conceived tax and spending policies.  Republicans, for all their crowing about deficits when a Democrat is in office, are the worst offenders.  They no longer have ANY credibility on the issue.  

[Value Buy]

Dec 27, 2019 12:12:32 GMT -5 dondub said:

And as I have shown numerous times the Obama DJIA gains have always surpassed those of Trump. Last time I did it Obama gains were 50% higher.

Most investors no longer consider the DOW the correct market indicator, due to only 30 largely huge companies in the index, with one or two of the companies having too much influence on the DOW number. A positive two dollar move in Boeing moves the Dow a considerable number of points upward regardless if the other 29 companies are flat in price. It is a weighted index.
The S&P 500 is a much better indicator of actual economic and market strength in America. 
If you could provide a similar example of President's performance since Reagan on the DOW, I would appreciate it. I cannot find one. I will not argue about Obama's gain on the Dow. It was huge and propelled my portfolio back to near where it was before the crash.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 27, 2019 13:35:31 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 27, 2019 12:12:32 GMT -5 dondub said:

And as I have shown numerous times the Obama DJIA gains have always surpassed those of Trump. Last time I did it Obama gains were 50% higher.

Most investors no longer consider the DOW the correct market indicator, due to only 30 largely huge companies in the index, with one or two of the companies having too much influence on the DOW number. A positive two dollar move in Boeing moves the Dow a considerable number of points upward regardless if the other 29 companies are flat in price. It is a weighted index.
The S&P 500 is a much better indicator of actual economic and market strength in America. 
If you could provide a similar example of President's performance since Reagan on the DOW, I would appreciate it. I cannot find one. I will not argue about Obama's gain on the Dow. It was huge and propelled my portfolio back to near where it was before the crash.

I like SP500, as well. but I also think that having Trump take credit for the last 3 months Obama was president is unfair.

[Value Buy]

Dec 27, 2019 14:23:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 27, 2019 13:35:31 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Most investors no longer consider the DOW the correct market indicator, due to only 30 largely huge companies in the index, with one or two of the companies having too much influence on the DOW number. A positive two dollar move in Boeing moves the Dow a considerable number of points upward regardless if the other 29 companies are flat in price. It is a weighted index.
The S&P 500 is a much better indicator of actual economic and market strength in America. 
If you could provide a similar example of President's performance since Reagan on the DOW, I would appreciate it. I cannot find one. I will not argue about Obama's gain on the Dow. It was huge and propelled my portfolio back to near where it was before the crash.

I like SP500, as well. but I also think that having Trump take credit for the last 3 months Obama was president is unfair.

Why? Democrats and liberals told everyone the markets would fall if he were elected.
They were down until he was elected. Then they took off because investors knew he would make a difference.
MAGA!

[tallguy]

Dec 27, 2019 14:36:45 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 27, 2019 14:23:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

I like SP500, as well. but I also think that having Trump take credit for the last 3 months Obama was president is unfair.

Why? Democrats and liberals told everyone the markets would fall if he were elected.
They were down until he was elected. Then they took off because investors knew he would make a difference.
MAGA!

Would you come back to reality if we stipulate that trashing our future for short-term gain DOES result in short-term gain?  

[justme]

Since there isn't a link I can't look at how the percents were calculated. But isn't going from the -20s to +30s a 50 point improvement but going from 30s to 50s only a 20 point improvement? So while it grew under trump it didn't grow near the magnitude it did under Obama?

Not to mention comparing 3 years to 8 years is, well, not the best to do.

[OldCoyote]

Dec 27, 2019 11:36:31 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

So to summarize, Trump has been good for the markets and everyone's retirement portfolios.

No denying that, but the lower middle class aren't invested or seeing any of this. And his negative policies on the environment, our world standing with our allies and higher prices. Trump only thinks of himself, he proves it almost everyday.

This middle class person is doing just fine under Trump policies!!

I got a nice tax cut.

The business is doing fine.

My mutual funds are booming.

There are only a couple of Countries around the World that it would concern me that Trump did something to upset them,,

The rest, death to America group, and those that only hold out their hands for money, can go pound sand!

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Dec 28, 2019 7:46:35 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Dec 27, 2019 11:36:31 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

No denying that, but the lower middle class aren't invested or seeing any of this. And his negative policies on the environment, our world standing with our allies and higher prices. Trump only thinks of himself, he proves it almost everyday.

This middle class person is doing just fine under Trump policies!! Me too. And I did better under Obama. The bull market continues.

I got a nice tax cut. Because he raised the national debt to get it.

The business is doing fine. Good thing you don't import things like steel.

My mutual funds are booming. Same here. They really boomed after the low around 2008. Was that due to trump?

There are only a couple of Countries around the World that it would concern me that Trump did something to upset them,, Like all NATO Allies? We have Russia to help us now.

The rest, death to America group, and those that only hold out their hands for money, can go pound sand! Agree we must constantly evaluate who to help to keep on our side. Want to talk about trump's financial interest in Turkey?

  So you want to isolate us from the world and go it alone? The French helped us gain independence from England.

[OldCoyote]

Dec 28, 2019 8:17:30 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Dec 28, 2019 7:46:35 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

This middle class person is doing just fine under Trump policies!! Me too. And I did better under Obama. The bull market continues.

I got a nice tax cut. Because he raised the national debt to get it.

The business is doing fine. Good thing you don't import things like steel.

My mutual funds are booming. Same here. They really boomed after the low around 2008. Was that due to trump?

There are only a couple of Countries around the World that it would concern me that Trump did something to upset them,, Like all NATO Allies? We have Russia to help us now.

The rest, death to America group, and those that only hold out their hands for money, can go pound sand! Agree we must constantly evaluate who to help to keep on our side. Want to talk about trump's financial interest in Turkey?

  So you want to isolate us from the world and go it alone? The French helped us gain independence from England.

Geeees, where do I start, yea we are all doing good, or at least those of us that paid attention.

National debt, Just cause it was OK under Obama , I'm OK with it now,, only from spite!!

If it was up to me, Israel would get support,, that would be about it!

Trump's financial interest in Turkey? If Trump is dumb enough to Invest in Turkey,, He can lose it as far as I am concerned.. Turkey is not our friend.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Trump's financial interest in Turkey? If Trump is dumb enough to Invest in Turkey,, He can lose it as far as I am concerned.. Turkey is not our friend.

But Turkey is trump's friend. After getting off the phone with Erdogan, trump pulled our troops out of Syria so they could attack our allies, the Kurds. It was a surprise move to our generals, but trump says he knows more then they do. $$$

Obama raised the national debt to get us out of a financial and auto industry collapse left over from Bush. Trump inherited a good economy and raised the debt more. 

[OldCoyote]

Let me point out something, this has to do with the success or failure of one's finances. personal and business.

If you have paid attention to what is going on, watched out for yourself, it does not really matter who is President,

Did Obama inherit a recession , you bet he did, The reason for the recession started long before Bush, with rule changes that were made!

I made money during the down cycle, because, I didn't go out buy a bigger better house when it was fashionable to do so, So I didn't lose my under water house , cause it was never under water.

When business were failing, I was taking over their equipment, I made money off of it.   When you make money you always set some aside for emergency's.

Not everyone is equipped mentally and physically for success, Everyone deserves e a living wage,,,

No they don't,, some people could not pour piss out of a boot even if the instructions were written on the bottom of the heel.

Could the economy have recovered faster under Obama, you bet, but the market did not have confidence in Obama's or I should say Bernanke's policies.

The market has confidence in Trump, even with all Trump's headwinds caused by the opposition, the market continue up.

Even now I spend less than I make, that is how successes are made!

[OldCoyote]

Dec 28, 2019 9:00:37 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Trump's financial interest in Turkey? If Trump is dumb enough to Invest in Turkey,, He can lose it as far as I am concerned.. Turkey is not our friend.

But Turkey is trump's friend. After getting off the phone with Erdogan, trump pulled our troops out of Syria so they could attack our allies, the Kurds. It was a surprise move to our generals, but trump says he knows more then they do. $$$

Obama raised the national debt to get us out of a financial and auto industry collapse left over from Bush. Trump inherited a good economy and raised the debt more. 

What actual happened, the Russians stepped in, My guess is Trump reach an agreement with Putin for them to step in when we stepped out!

We don't need to be there!

[ken a.k.a OMK]

I agree with you (ETA on the financial discussion) . Some things I learned, from Benjamin Franklin I believe (no I'm not that old  ). "Pay yourself first". "Money makes money" (compound interest). We have everything we want yet spend less then we make even 10 years into retirement. This house is valued at $400k and MIL's, which we also own, $200k. No debt. Our investments are $3.1M. We both now have to take our RMD and are looking at what to spend that $100k on or reinvest some.  Yes the economy is still growing but at a little less rate overall. My Fidelity adviser urges me to switch to less aggressive funds. He thinks we may see a 20% fall in the market. We are so far above what we need that -20% doesn't bother me.

[dondub]

Dec 28, 2019 9:04:38 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Let me point out something, this has to do with the success or failure of one's finances. personal and business.

If you have paid attention to what is going on, watched out for yourself, it does not really matter who is President,

Did Obama inherit a recession , you bet he did, The reason for the recession started long before Bush, with rule changes that were made!

I made money during the down cycle, because, I didn't go out buy a bigger better house when it was fashionable to do so, So I didn't lose my under water house , cause it was never under water.

When business were failing, I was taking over their equipment, I made money off of it.   When you make money you always set some aside for emergency's.

Not everyone is equipped mentally and physically for success, Everyone deserves e a living wage,,,

No they don't,, some people could not pour piss out of a boot even if the instructions were written on the bottom of the heel.

Could the economy have recovered faster under Obama, you bet, but the market did not have confidence in Obama's or I should say Bernanke's policies.

The market has confidence in Trump, even with all Trump's headwinds caused by the opposition, the market continue up.

Even now I spend less than I make, that is how successes are made!

Please share “the reasons for the recession that started long before Bush”. I’m interested in what those are.

[dondub]

Also interested in anything you’ve got on how the recovery should have been quicker under Obama. I have seen that numerous times from Repo-Cons, a somewhat disparaging comment.

1.How does anyone really know how fast it should be coming back from the abyss?
2. What concrete initiatives were pursued by the Repo-Cons in Congress to aid Obama in helping the American people?
3. Do you realize deficit spending during economic downturns is a good idea versus the massive debt creation of W and Trump during times of plenty?

[djAdvocate]

Dec 27, 2019 14:36:45 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 27, 2019 14:23:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

I like SP500, as well. but I also think that having Trump take credit for the last 3 months Obama was president is unfair.

Why? Democrats and liberals told everyone the markets would fall if he were elected.

red herring.

I am talking about what "market performance" should be attributed to what president.

what Democrats did or said (highly debatable, btw) is immaterial.

the sun rises and sets at a certain time, as well. we don't argue about it.

if you want the honest truth, I don't think presidents should get much credit for stock market performance.

FDR was by most accounts a great president, who governed over a really shitty stock market.

I am sure you can come up with other examples.

but I can appreciate you Trump fans, desperate to find something good. it must be tough.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 27, 2019 21:15:36 GMT -5 justme said:

Since there isn't a link I can't look at how the percents were calculated. But isn't going from the -20s to +30s a 50 point improvement but going from 30s to 50s only a 20 point improvement? So while it grew under trump it didn't grow near the magnitude it did under Obama?

Not to mention comparing 3 years to 8 years is, well, not the best to do.

www.macrotrends.net/2482/sp500-performance-by-president

the main trick they are using is comparing based on "from election to election" rather than "from inauguration to inauguration".  this is cherry picking, in that I can't remember this EVER being done before.  except for Trump.

this gives Trump a HUGE handicap, because, if you will recall, the stock market was in FREE FALL in the final months of the Bush regime, and was RALLYING in the final months of the Obama regime.

if you look at this the way most other people do, Trump has underperformed Obama.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 28, 2019 8:17:30 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Dec 28, 2019 7:46:35 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

This middle class person is doing just fine under Trump policies!! Me too. And I did better under Obama. The bull market continues.

I got a nice tax cut. Because he raised the national debt to get it.

The business is doing fine. Good thing you don't import things like steel.

My mutual funds are booming. Same here. They really boomed after the low around 2008. Was that due to trump?

There are only a couple of Countries around the World that it would concern me that Trump did something to upset them,, Like all NATO Allies? We have Russia to help us now.

The rest, death to America group, and those that only hold out their hands for money, can go pound sand! Agree we must constantly evaluate who to help to keep on our side. Want to talk about trump's financial interest in Turkey?

  So you want to isolate us from the world and go it alone? The French helped us gain independence from England.

death to America group?

your fucking clown car is driving us off the cliff, bro.  you are on a suicide run. 

you don't see that, do you?

wow.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 28, 2019 9:00:37 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Trump's financial interest in Turkey? If Trump is dumb enough to Invest in Turkey,, He can lose it as far as I am concerned.. Turkey is not our friend.

But Turkey is trump's friend. After getting off the phone with Erdogan, trump pulled our troops out of Syria so they could attack our allies, the Kurds. It was a surprise move to our generals, but trump says he knows more then they do. $$$

Obama raised the national debt to get us out of a financial and auto industry collapse left over from Bush. Trump inherited a good economy and raised the debt more. 

deficit spending in times of turmoil is a proper role of government.

deficit spending in times of plenty is a sin against our progeny.