buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Nov 17, 2019 11:14:05 GMT -5
When you are down, do you fake it until you make it?
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 17, 2019 11:55:53 GMT -5
I'm a huge fan of mindfulness, choosing happiness, cultivating gratitude and all that. I don't really consider that faking it until I make it. And, really, there's no point in taking a lot seriously. In the end, it doesn't really matter for most of us.
I also think there can be a danger in faking it, depending on the severity of the issue. There have been times in my life where I have been relieved that I no longer had to fake it. This can be a dangerous platitude for those that suffer from depression/anxiety.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Nov 17, 2019 12:19:38 GMT -5
It's all I've ever done. Apparently, I'm pretty good at feigning confidence and knowledge as it's gotten me as far as I have so far. However, I'm incredibly insecure. In the last two years, I've been working with first and second year teachers; I'm actually pretty honest with them that I often have no idea what I'm doing and that I just make this shit up as I go along. I have two new secretaries also. I tell them the same thing as it alleviates their stress from trying to know everything.
Regarding fake happiness/contentedness, that's something I first learned in my early twenties, but it took me a decade to actually get decent at it. I was raised in a very angry home. I honestly didn't know that people could fake being nice. My parents were always angry--at minimum curt. I had two separate situations happen before I turned 24: A new manager was hired at the place I was working. She almost immediately called me out on my negative disposition. She did explain to me how to fake happiness. I can't fathom she remembers me, but I will forever be grateful for that lecture. Then, I was in grad school and a peer said to me "Why are you always so crass?". There was about three years between the work interaction and the grad school interaction. It still took me until I was at least 30 to get decent at faking happiness while in public.
However, the last two months, I cried almost every day. It was a massive coagulation of sending my youngest child to college, being transferred into a role I didn't want but am good at and needed to fix a situation because someone else screwed it up. From the beginning of August through the end of October, I've had a wretched time. I couldn't fake jack shit. I've actually had a massive argument at work with someone whom I've never argued before. We're both at fault, but I don't think he sees his portion of it. My behavior was a direct cause of being in situational depression and having massive anxiety. He couldn't see that and attacked me for being unprofessional.
I'm just rambling now. I'll see myself out.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 17, 2019 12:23:17 GMT -5
What gira said. I'll come back tonight to read your linked article, but I'll talk about what I've read in the past. I don't know if this is 100% accurate, but it makes a lot of sense to me Your brain learns things by creating certain pathways between neurons, so you have stimulus, and it goes through a certain path and leads to a response. After enough times, that path becomes a lot faster/more efficient. It's great when you're learning to walk, ride a bike, play an instrument, or something like that. It's not so great when it makes you have more pain more easily, or leads to sadness and despair. So, to break out of these pathways is good for you, and if putting a smile on your face helps you break out of one of those pathways, then that's a good thing. I would just be careful that it doesn't become merely a mask, and creates a larger divide in connections between you and other people. So, I would just be mindful that your goal is breaking out of the old pathways that are just leading you to feel worse. (I think there was some sort of finger-tapping technique that was along these lines also, but it all sounded really weird to me, so I didn't pursue it.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 14:08:31 GMT -5
However, the last two months, I cried almost every day. It was a massive coagulation of sending my youngest child to college, being transferred into a role I didn't want but am good at and needed to fix a situation because someone else screwed it up. From the beginning of August through the end of October, I've had a wretched time. I couldn't fake jack shit. As I get older, it's made me really frustrated that we see depression and anxiety as genuine medical problems, but when someone acts in a way that's affected by them, then we should grow up, act right, act pleasant, etc... as if we even could if we just wanted to badly enough. I think this leads to a lot of otherwise unnecessary antidepressant prescriptions for people that then lead to further declines in mental health due to short- or long-term side effects of the drugs and not working through whatever the situational issue is when it's appropriate. Instead of telling you your life has clearly been stressful and your feelings are normal, if you went to the doc and mentioned the above they would give you whatever the antidepressant of choice is this week. That might help or it might make the rest of your life worse down the line from negative side effects. All that to say, no one should always be expected to be "up" and "happy". Life is complete shit sometimes. And, I happen to believe from experience that if you cover up the shit feelings with antidepressants, then eventually it comes back to haunt you. Cry, spend a day in bed, throw something at the wall, whatever, but don't let anyone make you feel like there's something wrong with your character because of how you feel. One's mood is a physical condition, not something we always get to choose. It sucks, but it will pass and better times will roll around again.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Nov 17, 2019 14:37:33 GMT -5
This thread brought back memories of a seasonal job I had about 15 years ago.
I was working on the Santa Set at the local mall for the holiday season. Another worker was so cranky all the time that customers were complaining about her ............ and that isn't good on a 'ho-ho-ho' jolly old Saint Nick set.
I finally had to sit her down and tell her ........ While dealing with customers, put a smile on your face and in your voice.
Be cranky somewhere else ...... not here
She did get better with the customers
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 17, 2019 14:55:02 GMT -5
Hugs. I'm sorry you are having a rough time of it.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Nov 17, 2019 17:12:40 GMT -5
It's all I've ever done. Apparently, I'm pretty good at feigning confidence and knowledge as it's gotten me as far as I have so far. However, I'm incredibly insecure. In the last two years, I've been working with first and second year teachers; I'm actually pretty honest with them that I often have no idea what I'm doing and that I just make this shit up as I go along. I have two new secretaries also. I tell them the same thing as it alleviates their stress from trying to know everything.
Regarding fake happiness/contentedness, that's something I first learned in my early twenties, but it took me a decade to actually get decent at it. I was raised in a very angry home. I honestly didn't know that people could fake being nice. My parents were always angry--at minimum curt. I had two separate situations happen before I turned 24: A new manager was hired at the place I was working. She almost immediately called me out on my negative disposition. She did explain to me how to fake happiness. I can't fathom she remembers me, but I will forever be grateful for that lecture. Then, I was in grad school and a peer said to me "Why are you always so crass?". There was about three years between the work interaction and the grad school interaction. It still took me until I was at least 30 to get decent at faking happiness while in public.
However, the last two months, I cried almost every day. It was a massive coagulation of sending my youngest child to college, being transferred into a role I didn't want but am good at and needed to fix a situation because someone else screwed it up. From the beginning of August through the end of October, I've had a wretched time. I couldn't fake jack shit. I've actually had a massive argument at work with someone whom I've never argued before. We're both at fault, but I don't think he sees his portion of it. My behavior was a direct cause of being in situational depression and having massive anxiety. He couldn't see that and attacked me for being unprofessional.
I'm just rambling now. I'll see myself out. I’m so sorry you’re having such a rough time. Hugs to you. Sometimes it really sucks when you have the reputation of being professional and having it all together, all the time. Generally no one cuts you any slack when you just can’t keep it together anymore. Other people figuratively get away with murder and have no repercussions because “That’s just how they are” while the always responsible one gets crap for the same behavior.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Nov 17, 2019 17:26:42 GMT -5
((((((Treading Water Chloe))))) I grew up in a dysfunctional family. I was called gloomsnoot by my mother who was playing wicked step-mother. She had a lot of mental issues. I did not know what happiness felt like. I had and still have a hard time feeling loved. I did use fake it til you make it. Where that got me was being a secretary doing the hiring work of an Assistant Manager. And no support help. Single parent so I sucked it up and did it.
At another job, I could not fake not knowing how to put on a baby or wedding shower. There were so many social situations I had to learn as an adult. I had to learn to communicate effectively. Not leave the room when there was a conflict.
The "fake it til you make it" is the mantra of some of my grandchildren. My DD has used it also.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Nov 17, 2019 18:21:23 GMT -5
Fake it til you make it got me to a tremendously depressed state (suicidal) without being able to talk about what got me there. It took a lot of therapy to feel OK about opening up. I still feel like I can't let people see how much pain I'm in every day. I just smile and move along as I can. Maybe one day I'll feel OK about that, too.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Nov 17, 2019 19:32:17 GMT -5
I have severe depression and if I don't take my medication, I am in a far worse place than if I do.
Without the medications, I become suicidal.
I do not consider the anti-depressants happy pills nor can I take them without therapy. I do now without taking them I would not be alive today.
They are not hiding my issues. They allow me to deal with them.
Faking happiness or anything else makes me crazy.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Nov 18, 2019 11:13:35 GMT -5
It's all I've ever done. Apparently, I'm pretty good at feigning confidence and knowledge as it's gotten me as far as I have so far. However, I'm incredibly insecure. In the last two years, I've been working with first and second year teachers; I'm actually pretty honest with them that I often have no idea what I'm doing and that I just make this shit up as I go along. I have two new secretaries also. I tell them the same thing as it alleviates their stress from trying to know everything.
Regarding fake happiness/contentedness, that's something I first learned in my early twenties, but it took me a decade to actually get decent at it. I was raised in a very angry home. I honestly didn't know that people could fake being nice. My parents were always angry--at minimum curt. I had two separate situations happen before I turned 24: A new manager was hired at the place I was working. She almost immediately called me out on my negative disposition. She did explain to me how to fake happiness. I can't fathom she remembers me, but I will forever be grateful for that lecture. Then, I was in grad school and a peer said to me "Why are you always so crass?". There was about three years between the work interaction and the grad school interaction. It still took me until I was at least 30 to get decent at faking happiness while in public.
However, the last two months, I cried almost every day. It was a massive coagulation of sending my youngest child to college, being transferred into a role I didn't want but am good at and needed to fix a situation because someone else screwed it up. From the beginning of August through the end of October, I've had a wretched time. I couldn't fake jack shit. I've actually had a massive argument at work with someone whom I've never argued before. We're both at fault, but I don't think he sees his portion of it. My behavior was a direct cause of being in situational depression and having massive anxiety. He couldn't see that and attacked me for being unprofessional.
I'm just rambling now. I'll see myself out. Have you spoken to the co-worker and explained what was going in with you at that time? I have no idea what happened but if you weren't coping well it is possible that you were acting in an unprofessional manner. He might not consider himself to be at fault because he thought your reactions to the disagreement were inappropriate. To be clear, I am not trying to fault you. It's obvious you've been having a rough time and I hope you feel better soon.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 18, 2019 13:00:44 GMT -5
It's all I've ever done. Apparently, I'm pretty good at feigning confidence and knowledge as it's gotten me as far as I have so far. However, I'm incredibly insecure. In the last two years, I've been working with first and second year teachers; I'm actually pretty honest with them that I often have no idea what I'm doing and that I just make this shit up as I go along. I have two new secretaries also. I tell them the same thing as it alleviates their stress from trying to know everything.
Regarding fake happiness/contentedness, that's something I first learned in my early twenties, but it took me a decade to actually get decent at it. I was raised in a very angry home. I honestly didn't know that people could fake being nice. My parents were always angry--at minimum curt. I had two separate situations happen before I turned 24: A new manager was hired at the place I was working. She almost immediately called me out on my negative disposition. She did explain to me how to fake happiness. I can't fathom she remembers me, but I will forever be grateful for that lecture. Then, I was in grad school and a peer said to me "Why are you always so crass?". There was about three years between the work interaction and the grad school interaction. It still took me until I was at least 30 to get decent at faking happiness while in public.
However, the last two months, I cried almost every day. It was a massive coagulation of sending my youngest child to college, being transferred into a role I didn't want but am good at and needed to fix a situation because someone else screwed it up. From the beginning of August through the end of October, I've had a wretched time. I couldn't fake jack shit. I've actually had a massive argument at work with someone whom I've never argued before. We're both at fault, but I don't think he sees his portion of it. My behavior was a direct cause of being in situational depression and having massive anxiety. He couldn't see that and attacked me for being unprofessional.
I'm just rambling now. I'll see myself out. I'm very sorry that you are having such a rough time of it. But I do not think it is anyone else's place at work to understand and accommodate your depression. You are paid as a professional and need to act like one at work. we all have bad days but if I'm called out on being less than professional, I have to own it. Even when I was going through my divorce or earlier, when I was going through all of my issues with my youngest, I never thought it was acceptable to bring that to work.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 18, 2019 14:18:51 GMT -5
why a smile?
ugh! I don't need no stinking smile.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Nov 19, 2019 18:34:07 GMT -5
msventoux gs11rmb Miss Tequila I’m not denying that, in this particular interaction, one portion of my choices was not a good choice. I have owned that and apologized for it. In my perception Colleague and I had a fantastic working relationship. We are able to debate, we trust each other to take care of projects, and help each other when one is have personal challenges (kids, health, aging parents). I don’t trust many people to take care of my children. I trust this person to help me parent my children. Colleague kept harping on a project I was assigned at the beginning of the calendar year. He doesn’t like the project. He keeps trying to convince me to halt the forward movement on the project. It’s not actually my decision to halt the project; I’m just supposed to get the project to completion. I do believe it’s a valid project. I took DD#2 to college at the end of Sept on a Friday. I asked Colleague to sit on a meeting for the project since I couldn’t be there. Even though he isn’t fully supporting the project, I still trusted him enough to be at the meeting. Meeting happened. He emailed that weekend that he wanted to talk about the project. He wanted again to discuss it and I made time in my schedule that Tuesday. This was last month, and it was it at least fifth time he’s tried to discourage me from this project since March. He started right in on how this project is waste of time, how there’s no way I can complete it, listing how many problems there are. (I have two FTE jobs right now that I’m trying to get both minimally done in about 60 hours per week.) other job texted me. Other job involves safety of children. I answered the text. I was on edge because I felt like Colleague had started the discussion negatively. I was distraught because I’d just taken my last child to college. I am overwhelmed because I have two full time jobs. However, as was the topic of this thread, I was trying desperately to “fake it til I make it. I resumed asking Colleague questions trying to understand what he wanted to talk about. He kept getting more and more pointed and agitated and started saying how I was wasting his time and his employees time. I couldn’t fake it anymore. I normally don’t cry at work. I’ve cried more days than I haven’t this school year. Usually I keep it in until I get home. In that moment, I couldn’t not cry. I excused myself and left the room. HERE IS WHERE I SCREWED UP: I sent an unpleasant email canceling the project. The other person I included in the email called me immediately stating that there was clearly something wrong or a misunderstanding and that he was happy to sort this out with me. He said he could tell i was out of sorts and he was sorry. I repeat: my email was so off from my normal behavior that this other person immediately knew something was wrong with me on a different level. I cried for hours that night and the next day. That Friday I went to apologize to Colleague. He wasn’t there and I left him an apology note. Here’s the part that is irrevocable: that weekend He insisted on us meeting with our boss and explaining to our boss that he had never been treated so unprofessionally. That I didn’t pay attention to him and played on my phone. That left a meeting with no warning and didn’t finish a conversation. That I sent an email taking something away from his department not just without cause but as a retaliatory measure. Now, he did that with me in the room. He didn’t hide it. I do appreciate that portion. I don’t dispute I should not have sent the email. I don’t dispute that i should have realized I needed to take a mental health day that week. I don’t dispute I made unprofessional choices. I wasn’t able to fake it. But if I’m so upset that I’m behaving erratically, maybe he could have just talked to me. Told me that i needed to take a day off. Something other than having a formal meeting in which to lodge a complaint against me. It would have been nice to have some grace extended to me since this was atypical behavior. I thought we had a better relationship than that. I’m sad that either I misunderstood the relationship or that it is not recoverable.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 19, 2019 19:45:45 GMT -5
Wow Chloe, very sorry about this!!
I'm on your side. He should have talked to you first.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Nov 19, 2019 20:02:13 GMT -5
Didn't he get exactly what he wanted?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 19, 2019 21:54:28 GMT -5
I'm sorry too, Chloe. I hope you defended yourself about the phone, at the very least. That sounds like a whole lot of BS for you to deal with in the best of times. After your recent health issues, it's not surprising that you're having a hard time with everything. That was a big deal!
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Nov 19, 2019 23:00:41 GMT -5
Didn't he get exactly what he wanted? Yes, that's another part that was so baffling. I conceded and he had a tantrum. He used the word "retaliatory". I don't understand how it could be that when I did what he wanted. Was the email snarky? Absolutely. But I gave in. Then got slightly chastised for giving in because it wasn't my decision to make. Which I understand also--I shouldn't have conceded because the project comes from higher up.
I still don't understand why he had such a reaction, and I'm still sad about it because I feel like I lost a friend.
And mad at myself because I do know I was wrong to act that way.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Nov 20, 2019 6:58:05 GMT -5
Didn't he get exactly what he wanted? Yes, that's another part that was so baffling. I conceded and he had a tantrum. He used the word "retaliatory". I don't understand how it could be that when I did what he wanted. Was the email snarky? Absolutely. But I gave in. Then got slightly chastised for giving in because it wasn't my decision to make. Which I understand also--I shouldn't have conceded because the project comes from higher up.
I still don't understand why he had such a reaction, and I'm still sad about it because I feel like I lost a friend.
And mad at myself because I do know I was wrong to act that way. What an ass! I got what I want, but not exactly how I wanted it. He should be sorry and I think you should feel grateful you got to really see him and know exactly how far to trust him.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Nov 20, 2019 7:42:39 GMT -5
I know it hurts Knee Deep in Water Chloe but you're better off not having this man as a friend. I hope things were resolved with your boss in a satisfactory manner. You're doing too much. Will you consider dropping one of the jobs?
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Nov 20, 2019 8:09:10 GMT -5
So sorry Chloe.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Nov 20, 2019 9:36:42 GMT -5
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 20, 2019 12:41:15 GMT -5
msventoux gs11rmb Miss Tequila I’m not denying that, in this particular interaction, one portion of my choices was not a good choice. I have owned that and apologized for it. In my perception Colleague and I had a fantastic working relationship. We are able to debate, we trust each other to take care of projects, and help each other when one is have personal challenges (kids, health, aging parents). I don’t trust many people to take care of my children. I trust this person to help me parent my children. Colleague kept harping on a project I was assigned at the beginning of the calendar year. He doesn’t like the project. He keeps trying to convince me to halt the forward movement on the project. It’s not actually my decision to halt the project; I’m just supposed to get the project to completion. I do believe it’s a valid project. I took DD#2 to college at the end of Sept on a Friday. I asked Colleague to sit on a meeting for the project since I couldn’t be there. Even though he isn’t fully supporting the project, I still trusted him enough to be at the meeting. Meeting happened. He emailed that weekend that he wanted to talk about the project. He wanted again to discuss it and I made time in my schedule that Tuesday. This was last month, and it was it at least fifth time he’s tried to discourage me from this project since March. He started right in on how this project is waste of time, how there’s no way I can complete it, listing how many problems there are. (I have two FTE jobs right now that I’m trying to get both minimally done in about 60 hours per week.) other job texted me. Other job involves safety of children. I answered the text. I was on edge because I felt like Colleague had started the discussion negatively. I was distraught because I’d just taken my last child to college. I am overwhelmed because I have two full time jobs. However, as was the topic of this thread, I was trying desperately to “fake it til I make it. I resumed asking Colleague questions trying to understand what he wanted to talk about. He kept getting more and more pointed and agitated and started saying how I was wasting his time and his employees time. I couldn’t fake it anymore. I normally don’t cry at work. I’ve cried more days than I haven’t this school year. Usually I keep it in until I get home. In that moment, I couldn’t not cry. I excused myself and left the room. HERE IS WHERE I SCREWED UP: I sent an unpleasant email canceling the project. The other person I included in the email called me immediately stating that there was clearly something wrong or a misunderstanding and that he was happy to sort this out with me. He said he could tell i was out of sorts and he was sorry. I repeat: my email was so off from my normal behavior that this other person immediately knew something was wrong with me on a different level. I cried for hours that night and the next day. That Friday I went to apologize to Colleague. He wasn’t there and I left him an apology note. Here’s the part that is irrevocable: that weekend He insisted on us meeting with our boss and explaining to our boss that he had never been treated so unprofessionally. That I didn’t pay attention to him and played on my phone. That left a meeting with no warning and didn’t finish a conversation. That I sent an email taking something away from his department not just without cause but as a retaliatory measure. Now, he did that with me in the room. He didn’t hide it. I do appreciate that portion. I don’t dispute I should not have sent the email. I don’t dispute that i should have realized I needed to take a mental health day that week. I don’t dispute I made unprofessional choices. I wasn’t able to fake it. But if I’m so upset that I’m behaving erratically, maybe he could have just talked to me. Told me that i needed to take a day off. Something other than having a formal meeting in which to lodge a complaint against me. It would have been nice to have some grace extended to me since this was atypical behavior. I thought we had a better relationship than that. I’m sad that either I misunderstood the relationship or that it is not recoverable. It's tough when it comes to friendships in the workplace. I'm sorry that you feel betrayed. Real or imagined, it hurts.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Nov 20, 2019 14:21:37 GMT -5
I always say people in work aren't real friends, they're just work friends. Big difference. Sorry for your troubles, Chloe.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 20, 2019 15:04:48 GMT -5
I always say people in work aren't real friends, they're just work friends. Big difference. Sorry for your troubles, Chloe. I've made some really good work friends over the years. But that was earlier in my career where we were all on the same level. It is much harder when you get promoted or have competing interests in other departments. I am very friendly with my co-workers but I keep the wall up so I don't cross that line to friendship.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Nov 23, 2019 11:29:11 GMT -5
Didn't he get exactly what he wanted? Yes, that's another part that was so baffling. I conceded and he had a tantrum. He used the word "retaliatory". I don't understand how it could be that when I did what he wanted. Was the email snarky? Absolutely. But I gave in. Then got slightly chastised for giving in because it wasn't my decision to make. Which I understand also--I shouldn't have conceded because the project comes from higher up.
I still don't understand why he had such a reaction, and I'm still sad about it because I feel like I lost a friend.
And mad at myself because I do know I was wrong to act that way. I suspect he didn't want to be the one responsbile for trying to tank the project. Or maybe there was some miscommunication and he was trying to tell you he'd support the project with some changes?
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Nov 23, 2019 11:35:24 GMT -5
Yes, that's another part that was so baffling. I conceded and he had a tantrum. He used the word "retaliatory". I don't understand how it could be that when I did what he wanted. Was the email snarky? Absolutely. But I gave in. Then got slightly chastised for giving in because it wasn't my decision to make. Which I understand also--I shouldn't have conceded because the project comes from higher up.
I still don't understand why he had such a reaction, and I'm still sad about it because I feel like I lost a friend.
And mad at myself because I do know I was wrong to act that way. I suspect he didn't want to be the one responsbile for trying to tank the project. Or maybe there was some miscommunication and he was trying to tell you he'd support the project with some changes? There was definitely at minimum a miscommunication. I own that I was definitely a part of the miscommunication. I still don't appreciate how he escalated the situation though.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,708
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Nov 23, 2019 11:40:16 GMT -5
I know it hurts Knee Deep in Water Chloe but you're better off not having this man as a friend. I hope things were resolved with your boss in a satisfactory manner. You're doing too much. Will you consider dropping one of the jobs? Yes, I'm doing too much. However, I was assigned these two jobs. I didn't ask for the second one. I was supposed to have help with the second one. That person (completely separate from Colleague) refuses to help. When it became obvious I couldn't get two full time jobs done without losing my sanity, the central office started brainstorming. Two days ago, a new job was posted to hire someone to help me with job #2. At the beginning of January, I should have someone to delegate stuff to for job #2.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,708
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Nov 23, 2019 11:40:55 GMT -5
Thank you everyone for helping me process all of this. I do appreciate each of your perspectives.
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