Will, (Living) Trust - what do you have?

[schildi]

The question is in the subject.

We have a will between me and the wife, which includes the two kids (14 & 17 yo) that we had done at least 10 years ago.

Thinking that it may be time to re-visit this, and redo the will. Maybe go with a trust?

What do you have, and why?

[tskeeter]

We have both wills and a trust.

If you have only a will, most people’s estate will be big enough that it will have to go through the probate process.  In MN, an estate as small as $50K with only a will would have to go through probate.  That’s a car, a wedding ring, some personal property, an emergency fund, and a checking account.  Stuff that most of us have.

Probating a will is time consuming and expensive.  We’re in the process of dealing with my Dad’s estate.  It took nearly three months to have the probate court confirm me as the estate personal representative, even though my role was not contested.  I expect that it will another six to nine months to complete the probate process so we can sell Dad’s house.  (The house could be sold during probate, but that would extend the probate process by three to six months.).  In all, the probate process here in northern Nevada takes a year or more. 

The cost of probate generally varies with the size of the estate.  Probate costs for a small estate runs about 3% of the estate, while large estates are closer to 1%.  That means that Dad’s estate will pay the probate lawyer $14K in addition to the other costs of selling the house.

Most people who have trusts use them to avoid the delays, expense, and complications associated with probating an estate.

Depending on the rules in your state, you may be able to avoid probate without a trust if you use a series of beneficiary designations, transfer on death instructions, and the like.  

Discuss your options with an estate planning attorney.  The attorney fees to do some good planning will cost a lot less than paying attorney fees and other fees to clean things up after you die.

[thyme4change]

I've done nothing. I am sticking with my father's theory that my will would just give everything to my husband and his would give everything to me, and if we both die it would be split between our two (shared) children. That is what would happen if we didn't have a will, so...

That said, in the near future we will likely get a trust. Which will state that everything will go to my husband and if we both die, it will be split evenly between our two shared children. But, we will have paid 6-grand for it, and my kids will go through the rich person's process, which is easier, as most things are.

[dannylion]

I have a trust.  My estate has a lot of moving parts.  My executor lives 3000 miles away and has her own family to care for, so having the trust will make things easier for her to deal with.  I also have a will, but it is just there as a precaution and essentially covers anything not mentioned in the trust.  I don't have any immediate family, so I need official documentation of who is to get what.  

[Deleted]

I have neither.  I know I should have/had one to designate a guardian for my kids, but in reality, they would just go to their respective fathers.  It's not like what I put in there would make much of a difference. 

[schildi]

At what age do kids not need a guardian anymore? Is it 18 or 21?

[pooks]

We finally got the will done.  So we have the will, something that avoids probate, if just one of us die, and a living will.  We don't have a trust, mostly because I think we are too lazy to use it.  I finally got the will done, because I didn't like the way my state would divide my assets at all.  There were some weird rules that I did not expect.  

[resolution]

We have wills, mostly because I disagree with how Maryland would give some of our marital assets to our parents if one of us died. We didn't do a trust; the attorney that did our wills didn't think we needed one, as we are below the Maryland estate tax asset level. I am not too terribly concerned about our heirs having to pay taxes anyway, considering it would be surprise money.

[Deleted]

Nov 7, 2019 15:17:35 GMT -5 schildi said:

At what age do kids not need a guardian anymore? Is it 18 or 21?

I'm assuming it goes along with the age of majority which varies by state.

www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Age_Majority_by_State

[MN-Investor]

I have both a will and a trust.

Instead of using a trust to avoid probate, you can use Transfer on Death designations (depending on the asset, the term may differ). There are positives and negatives to TOD's so read about them if that's the way you want to go. I don't know if all states allow real property and automobiles to have such designations so you may have to research your state's laws.

[CCL]

Nov 7, 2019 14:51:04 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

We have both wills and a trust.

If you have only a will, most people’s estate will be big enough that it will have to go through the probate process.  In MN, an estate as small as $50K with only a will would have to go through probate.  That’s a car, a wedding ring, some personal property, an emergency fund, and a checking account.  Stuff that most of us have.

Probating a will is time consuming and expensive.  We’re in the process of dealing with my Dad’s estate.  It took nearly three months to have the probate court confirm me as the estate personal representative, even though my role was not contested.  I expect that it will another six to nine months to complete the probate process so we can sell Dad’s house.  (The house could be sold during probate, but that would extend the probate process by three to six months.).  In all, the probate process here in northern Nevada takes a year or more. 

The cost of probate generally varies with the size of the estate.  Probate costs for a small estate runs about 3% of the estate, while large estates are closer to 1%.  That means that Dad’s estate will pay the probate lawyer $14K in addition to the other costs of selling the house.

Most people who have trusts use them to avoid the delays, expense, and complications associated with probating an estate.

Depending on the rules in your state, you may be able to avoid probate without a trust if you use a series of beneficiary designations, transfer on death instructions, and the like.  

Discuss your options with an estate planning attorney.  The attorney fees to do some good planning will cost a lot less than paying attorney fees and other fees to clean things up after you die.

This is what our attorney recommended and what we did the last time we updated our wills.

[Blonde Granny]

As a widow, my situation is different. I just had my will and Trust redone last spring. Total cost was $1400.

My trust owns my house, brokerage accounts and my car. I am the trustee. My son will be the trustee upon my death and automatically inherit everything. I have only 1 adult child and 3 grandchildren ages 21, 19 & 14. They have been provided for in the will and Trust.

As it is now, my son has financial and medical POAs which allows him to do whatever is necessary if I would need nursing home care or was incapable of taking care of myself.

Please, use a good attorney and get help necessary to make good decisions.

[TheOtherMe]

Nov 7, 2019 16:11:00 GMT -5 CCL said:

Nov 7, 2019 14:51:04 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

We have both wills and a trust.

If you have only a will, most people’s estate will be big enough that it will have to go through the probate process.  In MN, an estate as small as $50K with only a will would have to go through probate.  That’s a car, a wedding ring, some personal property, an emergency fund, and a checking account.  Stuff that most of us have.

Probating a will is time consuming and expensive.  We’re in the process of dealing with my Dad’s estate.  It took nearly three months to have the probate court confirm me as the estate personal representative, even though my role was not contested.  I expect that it will another six to nine months to complete the probate process so we can sell Dad’s house.  (The house could be sold during probate, but that would extend the probate process by three to six months.).  In all, the probate process here in northern Nevada takes a year or more. 

The cost of probate generally varies with the size of the estate.  Probate costs for a small estate runs about 3% of the estate, while large estates are closer to 1%.  That means that Dad’s estate will pay the probate lawyer $14K in addition to the other costs of selling the house.

Most people who have trusts use them to avoid the delays, expense, and complications associated with probating an estate.

Depending on the rules in your state, you may be able to avoid probate without a trust if you use a series of beneficiary designations, transfer on death instructions, and the like.  

Discuss your options with an estate planning attorney.  The attorney fees to do some good planning will cost a lot less than paying attorney fees and other fees to clean things up after you die.

This is what our attorney recommended and what we did the last time we updated our wills.

This is what was recommended to my parents and is what they did.  Right now, dad, my sister and I are joint tenants on all of his bank accounts.

Only his IRA is in his name only and we are the designated beneficiaries.  

[Deleted]

I have a Revocable Trust as well as a will. My main reason for the Trust is that although DS and DDIL are sensible and frugal, they don't have great interest in managing money.  My brother, a CPA, will be Trustee along with DS as co-Trustee.  My brother, a devout Presbyterian who probably tithes but also owns 4 houses and a Tesla, will also be able to give them good perspective on how much to keep and how much to give away.

Also, if DS predeceases DDIL anything still in the trust goes to the grandchildren.  (DS has VERY good life insurance for himself as well as on DDIL.)    In the very remote event that DDIL remarries I trust her judgment but would want to protect against a second husband wanting to give it all away or buy my granddaughter a Maserati when she gets her Driver's License.  Similarly, if DS and DDIL both die when the kids are minors they've specified guardians for the kids but I don't want the remaining assets totally under the control of the guardians. 

[tskeeter]

Nov 7, 2019 15:35:24 GMT -5 pooks said:

We finally got the will done.  So we have the will, something that avoids probate, if just one of us die, and a living will.  We don't have a trust, mostly because I think we are too lazy to use it.  I finally got the will done, because I didn't like the way my state would divide my assets at all.  There were some weird rules that I did not expect.  

Pooks, in all of the states that I am aware of, a will does not keep your estate out of probate court.  In fact, I believe that a will must be probated if the estate is larger than a certain threshold that varies from state to state. Those thresholds are so low that the estate of anyone who owned a house would be subject to probate.

I think you should talk with the lawyer who prepared your will to ensure that a will alone accomplishes your estate planning objectives.

[tskeeter]

Nov 7, 2019 15:45:31 GMT -5 resolution said:

We have wills, mostly because I disagree with how Maryland would give some of our marital assets to our parents if one of us died. We didn't do a trust; the attorney that did our wills didn't think we needed one, as we are below the Maryland estate tax asset level. I am not too terribly concerned about our heirs having to pay taxes anyway, considering it would be surprise money.

Why would you want to give away a portion of your heirs inheritance?  Do you send the IRS a bit extra each April just because you’ve got some money left in your checking account?  If you’ve got more than you think is fair, you can always send the excess to me.  The state and the IRS won’t send you a Thank You card, but I would.

[weltschmerz]

I have a will. Everything goes to DS. It would all go to him eventually anyway, but it would take a while and there would be a lot of red tape and hoops to jump through.  This is easier for everyone.

[resolution]

Nov 7, 2019 23:48:30 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Nov 7, 2019 15:45:31 GMT -5 resolution said:

We have wills, mostly because I disagree with how Maryland would give some of our marital assets to our parents if one of us died. We didn't do a trust; the attorney that did our wills didn't think we needed one, as we are below the Maryland estate tax asset level. I am not too terribly concerned about our heirs having to pay taxes anyway, considering it would be surprise money.

Why would you want to give away a portion of your heirs inheritance?  Do you send the IRS a bit extra each April just because you’ve got some money left in your checking account?  If you’ve got more than you think is fair, you can always send the excess to me.  The state and the IRS won’t send you a Thank You card, but I would.

The state would probably spend it better than my heirs would. At least I could pretend that its going to Medicaid or housing assistance.  Our chances of reaching 22 million are about nil, barring some kind of hyperinflation, so the IRS isn't in danger of getting any.

[Deleted]

Nov 7, 2019 23:36:50 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Pooks, in all of the states that I am aware of, a will does not keep your estate out of probate court. In fact, I believe that a will must be probated if the estate is larger than a certain threshold that varies from state to state. Those thresholds are so low that the estate of anyone who owned a house would be subject to probate.

True. Right now DS is dealing with the state of NJ to get about $1,500 of unclaimed funds in his Dad's name. My Ex died without a will and with negative net worth in 2010. NJ wants proof that the estate went through probate. We'd already noted on one of the forms that there was no probate proceeding because there was nothing to settle but they came back and asked again for proof the estate went through probate. DS has just sent them an Affidavit of Small Estate form, which we hope will convince them that no probate was necessary.

State laws vary as to how your estate is distributed if you die without a will (the fancy word is "intestate"). Typically it's 2/3 to the spouse and 1/3 to the kids, but even if you're OK with that there are additional costs to probating the estate- the Administrator may have to pay for a bond guaranteeing that they won't embezzle from the estate, for one thing. If no one in the family wants to administer the estate the court may appoint some attorney you've never met- and grant them fees for their work.  Better to have a will that divides things the way you want, with an executor you trust.

[thyme4change]

Nov 7, 2019 15:17:35 GMT -5 schildi said:

At what age do kids not need a guardian anymore? Is it 18 or 21?

If me and DH die when my kids are 18 and 20, they will likely have a disastrous time. Of course they will be devastated, but between our assets and life insurance, they would be given a significant amount of money. Probably around $1.5M each. There is a high likelihood of stupidity. My parents are also going to leave them money, and they won't live forever. Maybe in my trust, I will leave them poverty level money every year until they turn 50. That would give it time to grow. Maybe they could skip retirement investing.

Or, I will stick with my original plan - live until I spend it all and die broke. Those kids have every advantage. They will have to take care of themselves.

[swamp]

Nov 7, 2019 15:17:35 GMT -5 schildi said:

At what age do kids not need a guardian anymore? Is it 18 or 21?

18

[swamp]

I have a will.   Generally trusts aren't necessary for your average person.  

[kadee79]

The laws for every state vary...you should see an estate attorney to figure out what is best for your case as we are all different.

Ga. can be weird.  A hand written will that is notarize is legal here so no attorney is needed at that point, only after death to make sure all the proper paperwork is filed...but it has gone very quickly for the ones who were executors in all the cases I've known about.
Unless the law has changed...in Ill. your executor can not live out of state.  
These difference are the reasons we all need to seek advice in our own states.

[swamp]

Nov 8, 2019 12:34:12 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

The laws for every state vary...you should see an estate attorney to figure out what is best for your case as we are all different.

Ga. can be weird.  A hand written will that is notarize is legal here so no attorney is needed at that point, only after death to make sure all the proper paperwork is filed...but it has gone very quickly for the ones who were executors in all the cases I've known about.
Unless the law has changed...in Ill. your executor can not live out of state.  
These difference are the reasons we all need to seek advice in our own states.

I've had several people tell me it's too expensive to get a will, i charge $700 for a will/health care proxy/POA for a couple, $400 for a single.   They tell me they're going to use LegalZoom.

I've seen some very good wills done on LegalZoom.  I've also made a pile of money from estate planning gone very badly via LegalZoom.  

I make no money when I charge a $50 consult to tell people to put their house in their kids name with Life Use to themselves, put a kid on the bank account, and have beneificiaries on retirement/insurance.    Then I get  nothing to do estate work because it's all done.  That's what I did with my parents. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I make no money when I charge a $50 consult to tell people to put their house in their kids name with Life Use to themselves

But doesn’t this mean that the kids will pay capital gains taxes on said house when it sells?

[swamp]

Nov 8, 2019 14:02:17 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I make no money when I charge a $50 consult to tell people to put their house in their kids name with Life Use to themselves

But doesn’t this mean that the kids will pay capital gains taxes on said house when it sells?

yes. 

Or you can pay probate fees.    

You pay front or back. 

Sometimes they opt not to, exactly for that reason.       You're paying capital gains tax on an asset that was given to you.  I don't see that as a hardship.   

[TheOtherMe]

I'm just happy my parents sold their house 5 years ago and we don't have to deal with anything except cash and his personal items.

[Deleted]

I don’t have a will, and I know I need one. So does DBF. My kids are still the designated beneficiaries of my life insurance and other monies. I still have my old house, and DBF and I have one together. His children are the beneficiaries of his life insurance and other monies.

I don’t think we’re necessarily being fair to each other with the current set up. I have no problem with us each leaving what we brought to the table to our respective children, but I think that what we build together should go to each other first. He doesn’t care about my other house, but I do care about having the right to live in our current home if something were to happen to him.  Even if it ends up belonging to his children (which I’m ok with since I have another house to leave to my own children), I don’t want to be 80yo and have to fight with his family to continue living in our current home and I wouldn’t want him to have to fight for something we’ve built together either.

Even if we get married one day, we’d still need to sort everything out with an attorney, since we both have children and they aren’t ours together. Getting everything tidied up is on my to-do list, but I guess since it reminds me of my mortality, I haven’t been in a hurry to take care of it. Sighhhh.

[countrygirl2]

I just got the house in both our names.  Our attorney said in our will for he and I no issue, it just goes to the other spouse. We have POA's and DNR, our son is the designated person.

We have a Special Needs Trust that will activate on both our deaths, right now the money is split 50/50, going to have that changed and leave DD $50k period.  I  talked with our attorney last month oing to tweak the will. She will just need money for personal things, clothes, computer, hair, teeth, glasses. The state will only leave her $50 a month. I saw how poor those kids were and like DD gave her shoes she couldn't even wear, she needs a special order size, will probably never get them again after our death. I doubt she will live long on her own and the state will take whatever she has.

The IRA's and other accounts have me as primary bene and son as contingent bene.  When he comes up this month we are putting his name and grandsons on a little account we started and on the one where he is paying the loan for his house back, taking ours off. He is on the LLC too, we both go, the rest is his, he can abolish it, not sure how it will hit his taxes, his problem.  Hubs is only taking the interest off so its essentially a savings account for him. We want he and grandsons name on it.  That way DIL will have money for him but she will have to have a lawyer to help administer it.  I told son he better get it set up or she will blow everything she gets in a few years.  He has life insurance, savings, and everything paid for.  He admitted she is naïve. More then naïve, money is to blow period. Savings bonds some are mine and hubs, some son or me, so some will just go to him, all need to be made that way. Actually need to put them in grandsons name most likely, many don't mature till he is an adult.  Hope he takes after his dads thriftiness and not his mothers wastefulness. But nothing we can control.


He charged $2000 for the total will. It won't be much to tweak, from $250 to $500, need to get that done, hubs won't think of it.  Maybe by the time its needed a lot of what we have will be simplified.

[sesfw]

Please, use a good attorney and get help necessary to make good decisions.

I second and third and fourth this suggestion.

When DH#1 died all we had were simple wills written 20 years prior.  It took 18 months and headaches to get things settled and this was without going to court.  The atty handled everything as it was a small estate ........ but a huge headache.

After this experience I had all my legal papers done so our daughter wouldn't have to go through this when I pass on.  

Mom had her legal papers done and when she passed, everything was settled within 3 months.  After her death my brothers and I visited an atty in the state she lived in to make sure all the t were crossed and i dotted.  Everything was hunky-dory and no problems.

Very small estate ........