Oh Canada, who is going to win today?

[swamp]

I think the conservatives are going to take it.

[mollyc]

Last polling news I heard. The Bloc are expected to take a good chunk of Quebec so that won't help the Liberals. The 6 polls I saw from this weekend went 2 for the Liberals, 2 for the Conservatives and 2 tied.

The last expectation I heard was that the chances were slim on either party getting a majority government. Scheer is trying to claim that Trudeau has to resign as prime minister is the PC has more seats. This isn't true if the PC don't have enough seats to claim confidence in the house. Singh has been setting himself up as potential king maker if neither PCs nor Libs can form a majority government.

There is a lot of PC colour on the projection map I saw online. However it didn't show the boundaries so I was unclear how many seats that actual would be.

[mollyc]

Oct 21, 2019 12:28:30 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

From what I have read the sitting PM gets the first shot at forming a government whether they have a majority or not.  Of course if another bloc, such as the Conservatives in this case, do have a clear majority then the sitting PM will likely fail if he tries, at which point the Conservatives would step up.  

Yes, however Scheer is trying to push the notion that, in the case of no majority but where the PCs have more seats then the Liberals, Trudeau has to resign.  He is trying to use a US like conspiracy theory to spook non-PC individuals who don't want Trudeau as PM to vote for the PCs.  If the PCs squeak out a majority, I will call it a win for his actions.

[mollyc]

The PC party has been accused over the weekend of hiring someone to create an internet campaign pushing the notion that their offshot party, PPC, is actively white supremacist to avoid splintering the Conservative votes.  There certainly has been a lot of stories about white supremacists gravitating to the PPCs but its unclear if the PPC would have received a significant number of votes either way.

[weltschmerz]

It's down to the 11th hour and I STILL don't know who I'm going to vote for. Not Trudeau...I didn't vote for him before and I certainly won't vote for him now.
Not the homophobic American citizen, Scheer.  Not May, who has a bunch of separatists on staff and who feels Canada has an obligation to take in ALL of the climate change refugees. All 150-200 million of them.

Maybe NDP. Maybe. I'll have to hold my nose and vote for somebody. I think it will be a minority government no matter what.

[mollyc]

Oct 21, 2019 14:03:50 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Maybe NDP. Maybe. I'll have to hold my nose and vote for somebody. I think it will be a minority government no matter what.

I understand your problem.  The only good thing about knowing my riding will always go to the Conservatives is that I am free to vote for the individual I think would be the best representative for our region regardless of their Party's platform.  Going by platforms, everybody has wtf stuff that I either think they won't be able to implement in 4 years or they won't be able to pay for without dropping something else they claim to feel is important.

[laterbloomer]

I'm voting NDP. I have never had any strong feelings about Trudeau either way and i'm equally confused by those that adore him and those that hate him. Just please God don't let the Conservatives get a majority.

[mollyc]

DD turned 18 at the end of August.  She was pretty excited about having her say.  She voted this morning on her way to class.

Right now she is waiting on her BF while he votes.

May they maintain their enthusiasm throughout the years!

[kadee79]

Just seeing.... Trudeau/liberals! 

[laterbloomer]

Oct 21, 2019 21:36:52 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Just seeing.... Trudeau/liberals! 

Coalition with NDP! Whew!

[Value Buy]

Oct 22, 2019 6:59:02 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Trudeau wins, but the Liberals lose their majority and must form a coalition with (the NDP?) another party or parties.

The Prime Minister's next step is a speech announcing his agenda, which I understand is then voted on in Parliament to either accept or reject.  If rejected then his government collapses, and the representative of the Queen (of England!) then asks the parties involved to form a new one.  I would guess this Agenda is carefully vetted with members of the coalition government to avoid that outcome!

Sounds like a hot mess to me and makes our Electoral College look great, even MAGNIFICENT!
God save the Queen!

[laterbloomer]

Oct 22, 2019 7:43:07 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Oct 22, 2019 6:59:02 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Trudeau wins, but the Liberals lose their majority and must form a coalition with (the NDP?) another party or parties.

The Prime Minister's next step is a speech announcing his agenda, which I understand is then voted on in Parliament to either accept or reject.  If rejected then his government collapses, and the representative of the Queen (of England!) then asks the parties involved to form a new one.  I would guess this Agenda is carefully vetted with members of the coalition government to avoid that outcome!

Sounds like a hot mess to me and makes our Electoral College look great, even MAGNIFICENT!
God save the Queen!

What do you find to be a hot mess? The fact that we have a system that let us vote in such a way that 2 or more parties HAVE to work together? I love it that we have this option and wish we would do more of it. I'm bitter we didn't do that with our Provincial Government.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Oct 22, 2019 9:44:09 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 22, 2019 7:43:07 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Sounds like a hot mess to me and makes our Electoral College look great, even MAGNIFICENT!
God save the Queen!

What do you find to be a hot mess? The fact that we have a system that let us vote in such a way that 2 or more parties HAVE to work together? I love it that we have this option and wish we would do more of it. I'm bitter we didn't do that with our Provincial Government.

I'm not Value Buy but I think the parties working together is great.  The Queen intervening seems odd to me because, well, because I've never looked at how Canada government actually works. 

[laterbloomer]

Oct 22, 2019 9:46:58 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Oct 22, 2019 9:44:09 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

What do you find to be a hot mess? The fact that we have a system that let us vote in such a way that 2 or more parties HAVE to work together? I love it that we have this option and wish we would do more of it. I'm bitter we didn't do that with our Provincial Government.

I'm not Value Buy but I think the parties working together is great.  The Queen intervening seems odd to me because, well, because I've never looked at how Canada government actually works. 

LOL the Queen never does anything. She throws parties and we have her picture on our $20 bills. That's about it.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 22, 2019 9:44:09 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 22, 2019 7:43:07 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Sounds like a hot mess to me and makes our Electoral College look great, even MAGNIFICENT!
God save the Queen!

What do you find to be a hot mess? The fact that we have a system that let us vote in such a way that 2 or more parties HAVE to work together? I love it that we have this option and wish we would do more of it. I'm bitter we didn't do that with our Provincial Government.

The poster believes your form of government doesn't make Canada great again like trump's way of governing, as an autocrat, makes America great again.

[Wisconsin Beth]

lol.

[mollyc]

DH has the news on as he does most mornings. I see that the Western Alienation trope has been brought out. I have to see if Ford damaged the Conservative Brand before I get into that swamp.

[mollyc]

Did it hold to the end that the PC had a % or 2 more of the popular vote then the Liberals? I haven't had the chance to check. I'd expect them to try to make something out of that.

[mollyc]

Oct 22, 2019 10:52:39 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Oct 22, 2019 10:47:12 GMT -5 mollyc said:

DH has the news on as he does most mornings. I see that the Western Alienation trope has been brought out. I have to see if Ford damaged the Conservative Brand before I get into that swamp.

This American doesn't know what that means.  Have Canadians out west been alienated to the Conservative party by former Mayor Ford? 

It means that the Western provinces feel ignored when they mostly vote for a different political party then the one that forms the government.

Current premier of Ontario, the other Ford brother, has upset a lot of Ontarians with his policies for the province. I don't know if this discontent was enough to negatively affect the vote in Ontario for the Federal conservatives.

[laterbloomer]

Oct 22, 2019 11:01:37 GMT -5 mollyc said:

Oct 22, 2019 10:52:39 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

This American doesn't know what that means.  Have Canadians out west been alienated to the Conservative party by former Mayor Ford? 

It means that the Western provinces feel ignored when they mostly vote for a different political party then the one that forms the government.

Current premier of Ontario, the other Ford brother, has upset a lot of Ontarians with his policies for the province. I don't know if this discontent was enough to negatively affect the vote in Ontario for the Federal conservatives.

It was.

The Western Provinces have felt ignored for a long time. The way our system works they have way fewer ridings than Eastern Canada and have limited impact on the outcome of our elections. Hence they feel Quebec is the favoured child. This is getting especially heated since Quebec has refused to allow pipelines to go through the province that the Alberta oil  industry desperately needs to be viable.

[mollyc]

Alberta isn't happy with BC either for a similar reason to Quebec's.  They have threatened to cut off processed fuel and stop buying our wines if we don't let them build a pipeline to Prince Rupert.

My region went "go for it Bitches" because we already have raw oil pumped down from Taylor to the local oil refinery and we aren't wine country.  It can be difficult to get people up here to care about what causes problems south of us and vice versa.  There is a reason a lot of the Provincial libraries advertise themselves as "Beyond Hope".

Side note.  One of the most interesting things I learned when I went back to Saskatchewan for University a zillion years ago is that BC isn't a part of Western Canada as far as Prairie citizens are concerned.  We are "The Coast".  Alrighty then.

[weltschmerz]

Southern Resident Killer Whales live near Prince  Rupert. There are only 74 of them left in the wild. A oil tanker shipping port there will effectively kill them off.

The Enbridge Northern Gateway pipeline is also a massive threat to the ecosystem inhabited by Spirit Bears, It's the only place in the world where they exist. Pipeline spills will not only destroy their environment, but will poison the salmon all bears live on.

[mollyc]

I should have stayed off Facebook.  One of my cousins was commenting on the Election.  Mostly I could agree with his concerns.  I agree it wouldn't hurt to review how many ridings every province/territory has.  There might be a better system then the individual with the most votes in each riding wins even if they only have 30% of the ballots cast.  However, I have not yet had another system explained to me that doesn't just change who is disenfranchised.  I concede this may have been the error of the person explaining the systems.

But one of his thoughts is that there should be a run off election before the election so there are only 2 choices in the actual election.  I'm sorry, dude.  You're saying that because your side got 34some% of the popular vote (but fewer seats) and my side got 33some% of the popular vote (but more seats), we should change the system so the other almost 33% have to pick your team or mine.  This will make the world a better place because theoretically it will be easier for one party to get at least 170 seats?  What happens if they both get 169?  Now there isn't even a self-interested third party to court.  Would enterprising MPs offer to cross the floor for guarantees for goodies for their ridings?  Also how would this help the conservatives?  Generally speaking, individuals who don't normally vote for Libs or PCs aren't going to vote PC over Libs.  Most I know would stay home.

It doesn't help that he and his mom are 2 of those "irrationally hate Trudeau from day one" people.  And when he whines about taxes, I always want to say "C, if your income is a high as all the spending you show on Facebook suggests, why the Hell aren't you incorporated or doing the many other things people with money legally do to minimize their taxes?  At least get a better accountant!"  But I don't because his mom is my dad's baby sister and I have to play nice.

Anyway, I commented this time and I'm hoping he unfriends me because he is such an arrogant bastard.  I can't unfriend him while our parents are alive because "family" but he doesn't care about stuff like that so he can.

[mollyc]

I like the actual family stuff so I usually just scroll past the political stuff.

He was looking for his echo chamber and I messed it up by responding. I'll avoid doing that again.

[Value Buy]

Oct 22, 2019 23:10:39 GMT -5 mollyc said:

I should have stayed off Facebook.  One of my cousins was commenting on the Election.  Mostly I could agree with his concerns.  I agree it wouldn't hurt to review how many ridings every province/territory has.  There might be a better system then the individual with the most votes in each riding wins even if they only have 30% of the ballots cast.  However, I have not yet had another system explained to me that doesn't just change who is disenfranchised.  I concede this may have been the error of the person explaining the systems.

But one of his thoughts is that there should be a run off election before the election so there are only 2 choices in the actual election.  I'm sorry, dude.  You're saying that because your side got 34some% of the popular vote (but fewer seats) and my side got 33some% of the popular vote (but more seats), we should change the system so the other almost 33% have to pick your team or mine.  This will make the world a better place because theoretically it will be easier for one party to get at least 170 seats?  What happens if they both get 169?  Now there isn't even a self-interested third party to court.  Would enterprising MPs offer to cross the floor for guarantees for goodies for their ridings?  Also how would this help the conservatives?  Generally speaking, individuals who don't normally vote for Libs or PCs aren't going to vote PC over Libs.  Most I know would stay home.

You have summed up our political system here in the states with the bolded part of your statement. 
When one part of the Congress goes to the party out of power that did not win the Presidency or the other House (the Senate). They decide we should abolish the Electoral College which was formed as a compromise by our Founders to make sure the rural areas had a say in the government rather then let the populated northern states controlling the government all the time without a high percentage of the states being left out of the political process. If this process had not been accepted as well as the 3/5th rule on slavery the country would never had been formed, ot at least not in form most citizens would even  accept today.

[kadee79]

Oct 23, 2019 7:55:56 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Oct 22, 2019 23:10:39 GMT -5 mollyc said:

When one part of the Congress goes to the party out of power that did not win the Presidency or the other House (the Senate). They decide we should abolish the Electoral College

VB, have you been under a pile of rocks?  Many of us have been saying for years that the electoral college needs to go, it's way out of date & your definition is a WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT than the one I was taught when we studied the constitution in high school.  

[Value Buy]

Oct 23, 2019 9:16:58 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Oct 23, 2019 7:55:56 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

When one part of the Congress goes to the party out of power that did not win the Presidency or the other House (the Senate). They decide we should abolish the Electoral College

VB, have you been under a pile of rocks?  Many of us have been saying for years that the electoral college needs to go, it's way out of date & your definition is a WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT than the one I was taught when we studied the constitution in high school.  

Evidently your schooling in Illinois farmland was different than mine. There was a heck of a lot of compromise to get it accepted by both the populated north and the less populated southern states. Admittedly some of the compromise was over slavery. Evidently the north was welling to make the compromise worth it at the time, and it did not hurt the south to actually have some of their members sitting at the table writing the document. 
Just because some want the EC abolished does not mean they are on the right side of the argument........Many people do not want any income tax. Like that is ever going to happen.......that was never part of the original deal, was it?
Myself, I do not want ten high population states deciding our Presidency. Our President sh/be an acceptable person for as many of the states as possible.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 24, 2019 7:26:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Oct 23, 2019 9:16:58 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

VB, have you been under a pile of rocks?  Many of us have been saying for years that the electoral college needs to go, it's way out of date & your definition is a WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT than the one I was taught when we studied the constitution in high school.  

Evidently your schooling in Illinois farmland was different than mine. There was a heck of a lot of compromise to get it accepted by both the populated north and the less populated southern states. Admittedly some of the compromise was over slavery. Evidently the north was welling to make the compromise worth it at the time, and it did not hurt the south to actually have some of their members sitting at the table writing the document. 
Just because some want the EC abolished does not mean they are on the right side of the argument........Many people do not want any income tax. Like that is ever going to happen.......that was never part of the original deal, was it?
Myself, I do not want ten high population states deciding our Presidency. Our President sh/be an acceptable person for as many of the states as possible.

Because having Ohio, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania decide the last election was so much better?     The electoral college far from equal.  If it was then there should be no such thing as swing states.

I am heartened to see more states passing laws that the electoral vote goes to the popular vote that is a step in the direction.

The electoral college was established not because the Founding Fathers wanted things to be equal.  It was founded because they realized if "everyone" was truly equal then women and slaves would get the vote as well, along with non-land owning gentry.   Yes in part it was because then the Southern states would have had too much power but the main reason was to keep the power in the hands of those they considered intelligent and gentrified enough to vote.

The Founding Fathers were products of their time and had the prejudices and biased thoughts that come with it.  That's why they made a system so it could be modified, they were self aware enough to know they could not predict the future.  A system that worked for 13 colonies in the 18th century doesn't mean it works in 2019.   The Founding Fathers were not Gods and I am tired of people treating everything they did as some absolute perfect system that cannot be touched.

If that was the case then women would not be able to vote, black people would still be slaves and a good chunk of the men on this board couldn't vote either due to not being land owning gentry.

[mollyc]

In case anyone is interested, the Liberals went with the minority government option rather than a coalition government. We'll see how long it lasts. Hopefully at least a few years although DH is betting it crashes with the first budget.

[weltschmerz]

Oct 28, 2019 14:49:59 GMT -5 mollyc said:

In case anyone is interested, the Liberals went with the minority government option rather than a coalition government. We'll see how long it lasts. Hopefully at least a few years although DH is betting it crashes with the first budget.

The budget that was supposed to "balance itself"? That budget?