NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 17, 2019 12:20:32 GMT -5
I want to know what dt is hiding, though the following may be a part of the problem/reason he is so desparate to keep them secret:
"More questions have arisen surrounding President Trump's businesses after ProPublica obtained documents via New York's Freedom of Information Law. The documents show that for two of Trump's New York properties — 40 Wall Street and the Trump International Hotel and Tower — different financial figures were reported to lenders and to tax authorities. ..."
www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-businesses-reportedly-gave-different-135300856.html
and yet the strumpettes keep insisting there is nothing to see...
There is nothing to see but boring facts and figures of a tax return. He uses tax attorneys anyway. They are quite limited in what they can do in regards to the law. All the arguments about what 'he' has done on his taxes, is mere partisan speculation. and it will stay that way until he publishes his tax returns - as he has in the past MORE THAN ONCE PROMISED to do.
And stop with your condescending "boring facts and figures" shit. Someone else has called you on that already. Do not assume that you know what people can and cannot understand
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Oct 17, 2019 14:08:49 GMT -5
There is nothing to see but boring facts and figures of a tax return. He uses tax attorneys anyway. They are quite limited in what they can do in regards to the law. All the arguments about what 'he' has done on his taxes, is mere partisan speculation. and it will stay that way until he publishes his tax returns - as he has in the past MORE THAN ONCE PROMISED to do.
And stop with your condescending "boring facts and figures" shit. Someone else has called you on that already. Do not assume that you know what people can and cannot understand
The underlined is exactly the point. Perhaps, just perhaps, the calculation of his taxes violates the law - that's the true purpose of the inquiry. A second by-product would be to monitor his finances before and after the presidency to prove out whether he's made financial gains from being president. Again, did he violate the law?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 17, 2019 14:29:58 GMT -5
and it will stay that way until he publishes his tax returns - as he has in the past MORE THAN ONCE PROMISED to do.
And stop with your condescending "boring facts and figures" shit. Someone else has called you on that already. Do not assume that you know what people can and cannot understand
The underlined is exactly the point. Perhaps, just perhaps, the calculation of his taxes violates the law - that's the true purpose of the inquiry. A second by-product would be to monitor his finances before and after the presidency to prove out whether he's made financial gains from being president. Again, did he violate the law?
A question which could easily be answered if he stopped the efforts to keep his returns a secret. If he has nothing to hide, then why the extreme efforts to keep them a secret?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 17, 2019 17:59:37 GMT -5
Do you think the bank lends money off of Trump's stated value of the property? I worked at a community bank and we would only lend money based off of the LOWER of the assessed value and purchase price. What the customer told us it was worth had no bearing. Ditto with the insurance company. For my single family home, the insurance company sets the value based on replacement cost. I know this because I argued that I was insuring the house for too much and they said it's based off their calculation and they could not lower it for me. And since when does the owner of the property have any say into what a property is assessed at? The property assessor sets the value, you can contest, and they will either lower it or keep it the same. I don't know how it works on commercial property, but it can't be that much different from residential where you are basing the value off of similar properties in the area. Ultimately, it's up to the assessor to set the value. My bank, insurance company, and county have 3 different values for my home! Everyone does! Trump owns a lot of rental property, both commercial and residential, and he can easily cook the books by lying about things like how much rent he gets paid per unit, and what percentage of the units are currently rented.
Preparing a tax submission- he only gets X per unit, and only 60% of the building is rented. Wants to use the building as financial leverage to get a better interest rate on a bank loan - suddenly he's 90% rented out and everyone pays 2x in rent. A real cash cow!
Another way to cook the books (one his daddy taught him) is to claim he spent $500 K to spruce up Property A. Rewired the electrical, new windows, etc. This inflates his estimate of his building value by $500 k, which looks good when he's trying to fluff up his values. What he actually did, though, was send that $500 K to a corporation owned by his kids, and they falsify work sheet detailing all the money and labor that went into the repairs - but which never actually happened. Want to reduce his tax burden on that building? Just get someone to appraise it as is, without that $500K in 'repairs' - and voila, it's a whole lot cheaper, on paper.
Trump's daddy was the master tax cheat. When he died, rather than leaving millions to his kids,, he died with somewhere around 300K to his name, having used various schemes to transfer all the money to his kids (mostly Donald) before he died, so they wouldn't have to pay estate taxes. He was an evil tax genius, and some of that rubbed off on his son.
Unfortunately, those of us who just own our own home can never take advantage of those kinds of millionaire tax cheats.
Agreed. Since these are businesses, the value of the property is only part of the equation. If you are lending to a golf course, a casino, or a hotel I'd think you'd care about how profitable or not it was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 10:55:09 GMT -5
There is nothing to see but boring facts and figures of a tax return. He uses tax attorneys anyway. They are quite limited in what they can do in regards to the law. All the arguments about what 'he' has done on his taxes, is mere partisan speculation. and it will stay that way until he publishes his tax returns - as he has in the past MORE THAN ONCE PROMISED to do.
And stop with your condescending "boring facts and figures" shit. Someone else has called you on that already. Do not assume that you know what people can and cannot understand
Don't worry, he'll be publishing them any day now. The second part of your post was hilarity personified. As in don't be assuming that's why I posted it. How is saying tax returns are boring, an insult ? That idea has to come from somewhere, have issues ? Does understanding them or not, make them any less boring, lol. Could it be possible that a white supremacist Certified Public Accounting firm, has been using boring tax returns as a secret signal to other groups ? To protect Trump from unreasonable voluntary tax return exposure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 10:56:13 GMT -5
The underlined is exactly the point. Perhaps, just perhaps, the calculation of his taxes violates the law - that's the true purpose of the inquiry. A second by-product would be to monitor his finances before and after the presidency to prove out whether he's made financial gains from being president. Again, did he violate the law?
A question which could easily be answered if he stopped the efforts to keep his returns a secret. If he has nothing to hide, then why the extreme efforts to keep them a secret? Extreme efforts ?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 18, 2019 11:21:47 GMT -5
A question which could easily be answered if he stopped the efforts to keep his returns a secret. If he has nothing to hide, then why the extreme efforts to keep them a secret? Extreme efforts ? Yeah, well when you have multiple lawyers appeal the decision of a federal judge, I’d call that “extreme”.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Oct 18, 2019 12:06:45 GMT -5
Yeah, well when you have multiple lawyers appeal the decision of a federal judge, I’d call that “extreme”. It's called his lawful right to do so. Especially since there is no law for him to produce them in the first place. He should keep appealing all the way to the supreme court and lets see how it goes for the dems then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 12:24:33 GMT -5
Yeah, well when you have multiple lawyers appeal the decision of a federal judge, I’d call that “extreme”. Just as an aside, you can't really apply your perception of effort, to that of a billionaire. He can afford a team of lawyers, like you buying a piece of candy for a grandkid.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 18, 2019 12:26:28 GMT -5
Yeah, well when you have multiple lawyers appeal the decision of a federal judge, I’d call that “extreme”. It's called his lawful right to do so. Especially since there is no law for him to produce them in the first place. He should keep appealing all the way to the supreme court and lets see how it goes for the dems then. There is no law to produce them for the campaign, but that is not hte issue that is currently being litigated. The court ruled that when the tax records are subpoenaed, he needs to produce them.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 18, 2019 12:27:24 GMT -5
Yeah, well when you have multiple lawyers appeal the decision of a federal judge, I’d call that “extreme”. Just as an aside, you can't really apply your perception of effort, to that of a billionaire. He can afford a team of lawyers, like you buying a piece of candy for a grandkid. As an another aside, it's really easy to afford anything when you don't pay your bills.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 12:29:38 GMT -5
Just as an aside, you can't really apply your perception of effort, to that of a billionaire. He can afford a team of lawyers, like you buying a piece of candy for a grandkid. As an another aside, it's really easy to afford anything when you don't pay your bills. LOL, yes it is !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 12:34:52 GMT -5
It's called his lawful right to do so. Especially since there is no law for him to produce them in the first place. He should keep appealing all the way to the supreme court and lets see how it goes for the dems then. There is no law to produce them for the campaign, but that is not hte issue that is currently being litigated. The court ruled that when the tax records are subpoenaed, he needs to produce them. Quote; A subpoena is a lawyer’s assertion that she/he is entitled to the requested information, while a court order determines that the lawyer is in fact entitled to it. A court order typically has “order” typed on it and is signed by a judge or magistrate. www.apapracticecentral.org/update/2011/11-17/subpoenas-depositions.aspx So was it a subpoena, or a court order ? Final ruling or can it be appealed ? I'm thinking hiring attorneys can go nowhere, unless an avenue to do so, is already present.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 18, 2019 12:43:32 GMT -5
There is no law to produce them for the campaign, but that is not hte issue that is currently being litigated. The court ruled that when the tax records are subpoenaed, he needs to produce them. Quote; A subpoena is a lawyer’s assertion that she/he is entitled to the requested information, while a court order determines that the lawyer is in fact entitled to it. A court order typically has “order” typed on it and is signed by a judge or magistrate. www.apapracticecentral.org/update/2011/11-17/subpoenas-depositions.aspx So was it a subpoena, or a court order ? Final ruling or can it be appealed ? I'm thinking hiring attorneys can go nowhere, unless an avenue to do so, is already present. A subpoena is actually a court order issued by an attorney. It is presumed to be valid upon service. A law license allows an attorney act as an officer of the court and to do so, but has to have a good faith reason to be asking for the information, and swear that they have followed the procedural rules. Failure to act in good faith in issuing subpoenas can have negative ramifications on a law license. If someone does not comply, it is the attorney's obligation to go to Court and ask that the Court enforce the order. So the short answer is" It's both.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 12:50:21 GMT -5
Quote; A subpoena is a lawyer’s assertion that she/he is entitled to the requested information, while a court order determines that the lawyer is in fact entitled to it. A court order typically has “order” typed on it and is signed by a judge or magistrate. www.apapracticecentral.org/update/2011/11-17/subpoenas-depositions.aspx So was it a subpoena, or a court order ? Final ruling or can it be appealed ? I'm thinking hiring attorneys can go nowhere, unless an avenue to do so, is already present. A subpoena is actually a court order issued by an attorney. It is presumed to be valid upon service. A law license allows an attorney act as an officer of the court and to do so, but has to have a good faith reason to be asking for the information, and swear that they have followed the procedural rules. Failure to act in good faith in issuing subpoenas can have negative ramifications on a law license. If someone does not comply, it is the attorney's obligation to go to Court and ask that the Court enforce the order. So the short answer is" It's both. OK, thanks. I expect you to know more of the details on this.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Oct 18, 2019 13:58:15 GMT -5
Yeah, well when you have multiple lawyers appeal the decision of a federal judge, I’d call that “extreme”. It's called his lawful right to do so. Especially since there is no law for him to produce them in the first place. He should keep appealing all the way to the supreme court and lets see how it goes for the dems then. His lawful right to conceal probably unlawful behavior so that his cult minions can support criminal behavior. Gotta love it!
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Oct 18, 2019 14:58:57 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. MSN will say what he is doing is criminal, Fox News will say that it's legal, and then everyone will side with whatever camp they are on. There's this other option where people rely on educated tax professionals to interpret what they mean. There actually are people who can and will understand them and are qualified to speak on the contents. Taxes can certainly be complicated but they are not literally incomprehensible to the entire populace.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Oct 18, 2019 15:04:02 GMT -5
First it's no one's business. Its not like it is a requirement to submit them. Second I'm sure it will show he has a very low marginal tax rate, he probaby pays alot of money to alot of people to make that happen. It will probably show he has business interest all over the world including Russia, again who cares he is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing why his supporters sent him there fix the previous 8 yrs of democrat crap and run the country without all the social bull Yeah, I'm sure you would be exactly this blasé about it if a dem was in office. And I'm referring to just a regular dem, not even one with questionable business dealings all over the world.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 18, 2019 17:35:51 GMT -5
Yeah, well when you have multiple lawyers appeal the decision of a federal judge, I’d call that “extreme”. It's called his lawful right to do so. Especially since there is no law for him to produce them in the first place. He should keep appealing all the way to the supreme court and lets see how it goes for the dems then. No one has a lawful right to ignore a supeona. Since a subpoena is a court order, refusal to comply can result in contempt of court charge, punishable by jail, a fine
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Oct 19, 2019 10:26:50 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. MSN will say what he is doing is criminal, Fox News will say that it's legal, and then everyone will side with whatever camp they are on. Ryan...Donald claims his tax's , returns, are too complicated for Americans to understand...Trust me, the government has the experts who will easily interpret them..understand the tax laws and the lawyers on staff who can interpret any laws that may be in question... After they are done I am sure explaining their findings to the regular folks will be done easily..Possible nothing to be found...Personally I believe for a wealthy individual, his charitable contributions will be found to be just minimal....but that's me...
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Oct 19, 2019 10:39:38 GMT -5
It's called his lawful right to do so. Especially since there is no law for him to produce them in the first place. He should keep appealing all the way to the supreme court and lets see how it goes for the dems then. There is no law to produce them for the campaign, but that is not hte issue that is currently being litigated. The court ruled that when the tax records are subpoenaed, he needs to produce them. And why is there a subpoena? Because the dems want them. They have no lawful right to see them so they go and use the court system to get them. Trump in his lawful right to use the same court system they used to appeal the decision. America court system at its finest. So you are wrong he does not need to produce them until he is denied an appeal.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Oct 19, 2019 10:40:48 GMT -5
It's called his lawful right to do so. Especially since there is no law for him to produce them in the first place. He should keep appealing all the way to the supreme court and lets see how it goes for the dems then. No one has a lawful right to ignore a supeona. Since a subpoena is a court order, refusal to comply can result in contempt of court charge, punishable by jail, a fine He they do. He can appeal you know using the same court process that the dems use to get him to show something that is none of their business.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Oct 19, 2019 10:44:31 GMT -5
No one has a lawful right to ignore a supeona. Since a subpoena is a court order, refusal to comply can result in contempt of court charge, punishable by jail, a fine He they do. He can appeal you know using the same court process that the dems use to get him to show something that is none of their business. Oh, but it is their business and their constitutional duty to act! Go read the constitution.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 19, 2019 10:51:39 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. MSN will say what he is doing is criminal, Fox News will say that it's legal, and then everyone will side with whatever camp they are on. Ryan...Donald claims his tax's , returns, are too complicated for Americans to understand...Trust me, the government has the experts who will easily interpret them..understand the tax laws and the lawyers on staff who can interpret any laws that may be in question... After they are done I am sure explaining their findings to the regular folks will be done easily..Possible nothing to be found...Personally I believe for a wealthy individual, his charitable contributions will be found to be just minimal....but that's me... Do you think for a second that the IRS, with it's ranks filled with democratic voters,,
have not went repeatedly over every square inch of Trumps tax returns??
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Oct 19, 2019 10:56:17 GMT -5
He they do. He can appeal you know using the same court process that the dems use to get him to show something that is none of their business. Oh, but it is their business and their constitutional duty to act! Go read the constitution. I know the constitution quite well. One can question their reasons to say its their constitutional duty, but i won't split hairs. Its also within Trumps right to use the court system to protect his privacy you know he has right under the constitution also. Or do you need to brush up on those.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Oct 19, 2019 11:07:00 GMT -5
Ryan...Donald claims his tax's , returns, are too complicated for Americans to understand...Trust me, the government has the experts who will easily interpret them..understand the tax laws and the lawyers on staff who can interpret any laws that may be in question... After they are done I am sure explaining their findings to the regular folks will be done easily..Possible nothing to be found...Personally I believe for a wealthy individual, his charitable contributions will be found to be just minimal....but that's me... Do you think for a second that the IRS, with it's ranks filled with democratic voters,,
have not went repeatedly over every square inch of Trumps tax returns??
So u are suggesting that all government employees are Democrats..? Bit much wouldn't u agree? Got a link that justifies such a claim..? Just saying. He claims he is always under audit...and to release publicly their findings either way is a no, no....If mistakes are found then they would ask for compensation and if his people questioned their [govt] findings then they could appeal...all kept private ...just like with normal citizens.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 19, 2019 11:16:31 GMT -5
Geees, I wish we could take an anonymous survey here from the posters, that work some where with in the bounds of a government ,, that are hard core Republicans! Or rather than hard core. lean Left or Right,
Remember I worked for the State at one point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 11:47:56 GMT -5
It's called his lawful right to do so. Especially since there is no law for him to produce them in the first place. He should keep appealing all the way to the supreme court and lets see how it goes for the dems then. No one has a lawful right to ignore a supeona. Since a subpoena is a court order, refusal to comply can result in contempt of court charge, punishable by jail, a fine The fact that it isn't happening, tells you that the whole story isn't being reported. Or there are avenues still open that his attorneys are using.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 19, 2019 12:07:48 GMT -5
No one has a lawful right to ignore a supeona. Since a subpoena is a court order, refusal to comply can result in contempt of court charge, punishable by jail, a fine The fact that it isn't happening, tells you that the whole story isn't being reported. Or there are avenues still open that his attorneys are using. Pretty sure we've established the fact that he is going to extreme measures to keep his returns hidden. So...... what is it he's hiding?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 12:09:18 GMT -5
The fact that it isn't happening, tells you that the whole story isn't being reported. Or there are avenues still open that his attorneys are using. Pretty sure we've established the fact that he is going to extreme measures to keep his returns hidden. So...... what is it he's hiding? Extreme Measures ?
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