Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Oct 5, 2019 16:33:26 GMT -5
I was setting something up online with my health insurance. On the page that shows my benefits, I hadn't noticed this line before; it might be new.
This is for the 2019 calendar year and just for me--no one else on my health plan. (I had a trip to the ER, spent four days in ICE; another three days in "normal" care, and had four surgeries between Feb 4 & June 10 in addition to PCP followup care for that situation.)
Charge Deductible Copay/coins Moda paid $228,583.37 $313.31 $4,031.20 $148,752.98
Lots of thoughts: 1) Sheesh that's a lot of money. 2) I'm not so upset about the ~$14K/year that I pay in insurance premiums. 3) Health Care in the USA is expensive. I'm a healthy person; this was an off year for me.
Have you ever looked at your health insurance that way?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 16:54:44 GMT -5
I've been darn healthy. I'm not sure any company "lost money" on me since I had DS in 1984. From mid-2014 when I retired to 1/1/2018 when I started Medicare I paid about $28,000 in premiums. My claims were all under the deductibles (poison ivy, the occasional severe cold) or preventative (and that would include mammograms and a colonoscopy).
Still, I'm grateful for that. Stuff Happens to all of us no matter how much we try to live healthy, Today I'm skipping my gym workout, which I never do because a bad cold I picked up last week from one of my adorable granddaughters has really worn me out. I'm taking a lot of naps.
I did have more screening this year due to family history of breast cancer- an ultrasound and then an MRI 6 months later. Also got my first bone density scan, so maybe I finally got treatments that cost more than my premiums.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 5, 2019 17:10:28 GMT -5
I was setting something up online with my health insurance. On the page that shows my benefits, I hadn't noticed this line before; it might be new.
This is for the 2019 calendar year and just for me--no one else on my health plan. (I had a trip to the ER, spent four days in ICE; another three days in "normal" care, and had four surgeries between Feb 4 & June 10 in addition to PCP followup care for that situation.)
Charge Deductible Copay/coins Moda paid $228,583.37 $313.31 $4,031.20 $148,752.98Lots of thoughts: 1) Sheesh that's a lot of money. 2) I'm not so upset about the ~$14K/year that I pay in insurance premiums. 3) Health Care in the USA is expensive. I'm a healthy person; this was an off year for me.
Have you ever looked at your health insurance that way? Holy crap! $14,000 plus $313.41 plus $4,031.20? That's outrageous! Why do Americans put up with that?
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Oct 5, 2019 17:17:21 GMT -5
The first year I went on Medicare ended up being the year I was hospitalized twice, being admitted from the ER. When January came around, I had two more stays from the ER and gallbladder surgery. Having access to Medicare saved me a ton of money.
If I had not been on Medicare, I would have had to come up with $5000 to get to the catastrophic coverage.
When I was much younger, I was very healthy. Pretty much paid premiums and didn't see doctors very often. I did not take the chance and did not drop health insurance. Then at age 47, I had surgery and ended up hospitalized for 28 days. I paid $1000 of the cost, as that was the catastrophic amount back then. I figured I will not complain about all the years I had no claims.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 17:41:31 GMT -5
I bet the Public Education Employee Health Insurance Program (Peehip) danced with joy when I retired in May. That shifted DH onto Medicare primary and United Health Care's version of Peehip. This is not the same as the one others can buy, which became very clear when UAB's medical system and UHC got into a contract dispute. Peehip's version was going to be the only version of UHC that they would accept. They settled on the last day, by the way.
It's very reasonable . . . $162 plus we pay individually for Medicare. So $432. DH always paid for Medicare as a kind of backup so it compares well to the $397 we paid before. It includes prescription drug coverage.
But I can't believe the Medicare reimbursement level for hospitals. One hospital billed $61,000 for a four-day stay for internal bleeding. They got a little less than $6000 so less than 10%. Our share was an additional $250.
We get a notice like that quarterly, Chloe, but it is by mail and not online.
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 6, 2019 20:53:09 GMT -5
I've always been able to see that on my insurance plans if you look in the right spot. They've also paid out more than me every year. Maybe some years even if you include my employers contribution.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Oct 6, 2019 21:21:36 GMT -5
I was setting something up online with my health insurance. On the page that shows my benefits, I hadn't noticed this line before; it might be new.
This is for the 2019 calendar year and just for me--no one else on my health plan. (I had a trip to the ER, spent four days in ICE; another three days in "normal" care, and had four surgeries between Feb 4 & June 10 in addition to PCP followup care for that situation.)
Charge Deductible Copay/coins Moda paid $228,583.37 $313.31 $4,031.20 $148,752.98Lots of thoughts: 1) Sheesh that's a lot of money. 2) I'm not so upset about the ~$14K/year that I pay in insurance premiums. 3) Health Care in the USA is expensive. I'm a healthy person; this was an off year for me.
Have you ever looked at your health insurance that way? Holy crap! $14,000 plus $313.41 plus $4,031.20? That's outrageous! Why do Americans put up with that? And that's just me. That doesn't count the two children whom we still insure and pay their medical expenses. Plus my husband also has his own health insurance plan which costs another $14,000 per year.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Oct 6, 2019 21:26:09 GMT -5
On our EOBs, those middle two columns are there. However, it's the two outer columns that I've never seen before. We don't get a quarterly statement. That would be interesting.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 6, 2019 21:31:44 GMT -5
Another year of squat......probably less than $300. I have only been to the doctor twice this year, once to see my orthopod, and the other for my meds refills. Much prefer it this way.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 6, 2019 22:33:20 GMT -5
Holy crap! $14,000 plus $313.41 plus $4,031.20? That's outrageous! Why do Americans put up with that? And that's just me. That doesn't count the two children whom we still insure and pay their medical expenses. Plus my husband also has his own health insurance plan which costs another $14,000 per year. Just you? It's mind-boggling, it truly is.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Oct 7, 2019 3:20:38 GMT -5
I always thought teachers had good health insurance benefits. Apparently they don't. That does seem like a lot of money for someone with a full-time job with benefits.
I know of people with similar coverage at comparable costs, but they are self-employed.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 7, 2019 10:28:04 GMT -5
For DH Total charges $5227 Total paid by Medicare and Supplemental plan $1877 Total premiums paid $4262 (Medicare prem $1626 and supplemental plan $2636)
For me total charges $4140 total paid by Medicare and Supplemental plan $1608 total premiums paid $4262
So between the two of us, we paid $8524 in premiums and ins payout was $6835
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 7, 2019 11:46:05 GMT -5
A couple of years ago is when I actually used my health insurance (for more than routine check ups). I had a bunch of tests/exams and some medications and then finally surgery (and a hospital stay and 6 weeks off of work). I did look at all the "this is not a bill" stuff as well as the 'bills'. I paid about $1200 out of pocket for stuff not covered by my HDHP plan. The bills for (tests/exams/medications/surgery) it all totaled a bit more than 75K. my payroll deduction for the HDHP is $210 per year. The deluge of paper and scary numbers on things that weren't a "bill" was eye opening. I can't imagine being the kind of sick were your mind isn't at it's sharpest and having to deal with all of this. You do need someone to help you keep track.
And I am very thankful my employer offers such good health care plans.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 7, 2019 13:03:52 GMT -5
I was setting something up online with my health insurance. On the page that shows my benefits, I hadn't noticed this line before; it might be new.
This is for the 2019 calendar year and just for me--no one else on my health plan. (I had a trip to the ER, spent four days in ICE; another three days in "normal" care, and had four surgeries between Feb 4 & June 10 in addition to PCP followup care for that situation.)
Charge Deductible Copay/coins Moda paid $228,583.37 $313.31 $4,031.20 $148,752.98Lots of thoughts: 1) Sheesh that's a lot of money. 2) I'm not so upset about the ~$14K/year that I pay in insurance premiums. 3) Health Care in the USA is expensive. I'm a healthy person; this was an off year for me.
Have you ever looked at your health insurance that way? Holy crap! $14,000 plus $313.41 plus $4,031.20? That's outrageous! Why do Americans put up with that? Because we pay a ton less in taxes than those of you living in Quebec pay. I quickly ran the numbers for a married couple with taxable income of $200k and what they would pay in Quebec (only Quebec and Federal) versus what I would pay in PA. The taxes were over $47k higher in Quebec, mainly due to the extremely high Quebec tax rate. I guess I could ask "how do Canadians put up with that?". I only pay 3.07% on income earned in PA, versus a top rate of 25.75% in Quebec (your lowest rate is 15%!). So looking at Chloe's numbers, she would be much better paying $18k in medical costs that you would not have to pay, versus paying an extra $48k in taxes. Ok, we are missing the medical premiums in that scenario. The cost of my plan is around $500/month or $6k a year. So add that to the $18k and I'm still only looking at $24k versus your increase in taxes of $47k. I would still rather pay my healthcare expenses, thank you very much.
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Oct 7, 2019 13:18:44 GMT -5
Holy crap! $14,000 plus $313.41 plus $4,031.20? That's outrageous! Why do Americans put up with that? Because we pay a ton less in taxes than those of you living in Quebec pay. I quickly ran the numbers for a married couple with taxable income of $200k and what they would pay in Quebec (only Quebec and Federal) versus what I would pay in PA. The taxes were over $47k higher in Quebec, mainly due to the extremely high Quebec tax rate. I guess I could ask "how do Canadians put up with that?". I only pay 3.07% on income earned in PA, versus a top rate of 25.75% in Quebec (your lowest rate is 15%!). So looking at Chloe's numbers, she would be much better paying $18k in medical costs that you would not have to pay, versus paying an extra $48k in taxes. Ok, we are missing the medical premiums in that scenario. The cost of my plan is around $500/month or $6k a year. So add that to the $18k and I'm still only looking at $24k versus your increase in taxes of $47k. I would still rather pay my healthcare expenses, thank you very much. I'm curious how you ran those numbers. You might be right but you might be really wrong. Most of the time Americans seem to take the rates and multiply the numbers without taking any of the other things into account. Are you assuming they both earn $100,000? Have you taken into account non-refundable tax credits? I don't doubt they pay more in Quebec then where you live but I'm pretty sure they get more as well as Quebec has some of the most generous social and medical programs in Canada. If you have a lot of medical problems or a number of children in daycare, the extra taxes may well be a wash.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 7, 2019 13:24:33 GMT -5
Because we pay a ton less in taxes than those of you living in Quebec pay. I quickly ran the numbers for a married couple with taxable income of $200k and what they would pay in Quebec (only Quebec and Federal) versus what I would pay in PA. The taxes were over $47k higher in Quebec, mainly due to the extremely high Quebec tax rate. I guess I could ask "how do Canadians put up with that?". I only pay 3.07% on income earned in PA, versus a top rate of 25.75% in Quebec (your lowest rate is 15%!). So looking at Chloe's numbers, she would be much better paying $18k in medical costs that you would not have to pay, versus paying an extra $48k in taxes. Ok, we are missing the medical premiums in that scenario. The cost of my plan is around $500/month or $6k a year. So add that to the $18k and I'm still only looking at $24k versus your increase in taxes of $47k. I would still rather pay my healthcare expenses, thank you very much. I'm curious how you ran those numbers. You might be right but you might be really wrong. Most of the time Americans seem to take the rates and multiply the numbers without taking any of the other things into account. Are you assuming they both earn $100,000? Have you taken into account non-refundable tax credits? I don't doubt they pay more in Quebec then where you live but I'm pretty sure they get more as well as Quebec has some of the most generous social and medical programs in Canada. If you have a lot of medical problems or a number of children in daycare, the extra taxes may well be a wash. I ran the numbers as if the married taxpayers jointly have taxable income of $200k. I pulled the tax rates for both US/Pa (pa does not have a progressive tax rate) and Canadian federal/Quebec. I do not need nor want general social programs so I do not want to pay for them. I have very good health insurance and while not cheap, it is certainly not worth $48k extra in taxes. I pay my premium of about $150/month and I am on the hook for $1,500 in medical expenses. I'm not on a lot of medications but I do also have a prescription plan with tiered prices. I have no doubt that the Canadian system is much better for people with lower incomes. I am not so sure it is better for people making 6 figures.
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Oct 7, 2019 13:30:06 GMT -5
Assuming the $200,000 total jointly is after all non-taxable credits and misc deductions are taken into account, it is still going to matter who earns what. We don't have filing jointly. Everyone files their own return.
Depending on where they live in Quebec, a couple making $100,000 each might be in a bad way because of cost of living. But the more money you have, the more options you have to invest it in ways that aren't taxable.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 7, 2019 13:42:07 GMT -5
Assuming the $200,000 total jointly is after all non-taxable credits and misc deductions are taken into account, it is still going to matter who earns what. We don't have filing jointly. Everyone files their own return. Depending on where they live in Quebec, a couple making $100,000 each might be in a bad way because of cost of living. But the more money you have, the more options you have to invest it in ways that aren't taxable. And that is crazy to me (same as I am blown away by some of the crazy expensive areas in the US). $200k in my area is AMAZING money! I love my low-cost of living area!! My calculations are then off as I did assume joint filings, as that is what I'm used to. I will have to recalculate as a single person using single person rates in the US. But given Quebec's lowest tax rate is 5 times the tax rate in my state, I'm going to take a good guess and still say it would not benefit me. But I could be wrong. I haven't any idea what your credits are versus ours. So I assumed it was $200k taxable income. I look at myself. I do not have a lot of medical expenses, I do not have a large mortgage, I do not have kids in daycare, etc. But to compare straight apples to apples, we can only assume not a lot of deductions (I do not have any) and only earned income.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 7, 2019 13:44:56 GMT -5
I'm curious how you ran those numbers. You might be right but you might be really wrong. Most of the time Americans seem to take the rates and multiply the numbers without taking any of the other things into account. Are you assuming they both earn $100,000? Have you taken into account non-refundable tax credits? I don't doubt they pay more in Quebec then where you live but I'm pretty sure they get more as well as Quebec has some of the most generous social and medical programs in Canada. If you have a lot of medical problems or a number of children in daycare, the extra taxes may well be a wash. I ran the numbers as if the married taxpayers jointly have taxable income of $200k. I pulled the tax rates for both US/Pa (pa does not have a progressive tax rate) and Canadian federal/Quebec. I do not need nor want general social programs so I do not want to pay for them. I have very good health insurance and while not cheap, it is certainly not worth $48k extra in taxes. I pay my premium of about $150/month and I am on the hook for $1,500 in medical expenses. I'm not on a lot of medications but I do also have a prescription plan with tiered prices. I have no doubt that the Canadian system is much better for people with lower incomes. I am not so sure it is better for people making 6 figures. No surprise you don't care about lower income people. Conservatives are always about "me,me,me ... I got mine. Screw everyone else"
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 7, 2019 13:46:45 GMT -5
I ran the numbers as if the married taxpayers jointly have taxable income of $200k. I pulled the tax rates for both US/Pa (pa does not have a progressive tax rate) and Canadian federal/Quebec. I do not need nor want general social programs so I do not want to pay for them. I have very good health insurance and while not cheap, it is certainly not worth $48k extra in taxes. I pay my premium of about $150/month and I am on the hook for $1,500 in medical expenses. I'm not on a lot of medications but I do also have a prescription plan with tiered prices. I have no doubt that the Canadian system is much better for people with lower incomes. I am not so sure it is better for people making 6 figures. No surprise you don't care about lower income people. Conservatives are always about "me,me,me ... I got mine. Screw everyone else" If you think I do not want to pay an extra $48k in taxes, you are right.
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Oct 7, 2019 13:50:12 GMT -5
I ran the numbers as if the married taxpayers jointly have taxable income of $200k. I pulled the tax rates for both US/Pa (pa does not have a progressive tax rate) and Canadian federal/Quebec. I do not need nor want general social programs so I do not want to pay for them. I have very good health insurance and while not cheap, it is certainly not worth $48k extra in taxes. I pay my premium of about $150/month and I am on the hook for $1,500 in medical expenses. I'm not on a lot of medications but I do also have a prescription plan with tiered prices. I have no doubt that the Canadian system is much better for people with lower incomes. I am not so sure it is better for people making 6 figures. No surprise you don't care about lower income people. Conservatives are always about "me,me,me ... I got mine. Screw everyone else" I understand where you are coming from but I don't think it is fair to say that in this case. Miss Tequila is always working from the premise that she got her shit together despite everything against her so no one else has an excuse. There can be mitigating circumstances that make what she believes correct and what she believe incorrect. Even if it were true, saying so only shuts down dialogue and any chance of either side learning anything.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 7, 2019 14:00:36 GMT -5
Because we pay a ton less in taxes than those of you living in Quebec pay. I quickly ran the numbers for a married couple with taxable income of $200k and what they would pay in Quebec (only Quebec and Federal) versus what I would pay in PA. The taxes were over $47k higher in Quebec, mainly due to the extremely high Quebec tax rate. I guess I could ask "how do Canadians put up with that?". I only pay 3.07% on income earned in PA, versus a top rate of 25.75% in Quebec (your lowest rate is 15%!). So looking at Chloe's numbers, she would be much better paying $18k in medical costs that you would not have to pay, versus paying an extra $48k in taxes. Ok, we are missing the medical premiums in that scenario. The cost of my plan is around $500/month or $6k a year. So add that to the $18k and I'm still only looking at $24k versus your increase in taxes of $47k. I would still rather pay my healthcare expenses, thank you very much. I'm curious how you ran those numbers. You might be right but you might be really wrong. Most of the time Americans seem to take the rates and multiply the numbers without taking any of the other things into account. Are you assuming they both earn $100,000? Have you taken into account non-refundable tax credits? I don't doubt they pay more in Quebec then where you live but I'm pretty sure they get more as well as Quebec has some of the most generous social and medical programs in Canada. If you have a lot of medical problems or a number of children in daycare, the extra taxes may well be a wash. Ok. I re-ran the numbers, assuming a single person with taxable income of $225,000. I used that number because it was easy to grab from the chart from Quebec!! In Canada, the total federal plus Quebec tax paid on that would be $91,850 per www.desjardins.com/ressources/pdf/table-impot-p-quebec-2018-e.pdf?resVer=1513781079000For me in Pennsylvania, I would pay $42,579 of federal tax and $6,908 of PA state income tax, for a total tax paid of $49,487. The difference is a little lower than my previous calculation but I would still be paying $42,373 more in taxes than I am in the US. My health insurance premiums are $6k and that includes what my employer pays. I am only on the hook for $1,500 plus prescriptions. And I live in a pretty low cost of living area so $225k goes a hell of a lot further than it would in Quebec. I can't see how I would be better off in Quebec or better off under a system like Quebec. Am I missing something? Or is it just better for lower income people? And that is a serious question because weltz was all "how do you put up with that". I want to understand what I am missing.
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Oct 7, 2019 14:41:53 GMT -5
As a single healthy person with, I believe, adult children, you would have no benefit in Quebec other then the joys of living there. And that isn't sarcasm. There is a lot to enjoy in the cities and the countryside.
Please consider that Weltz was responding to Treading Water Chloe who paid over $18,000 just for herself which is a different situation then yours.
My family may be unusual even for Canada. When I consider things like taxes and social services, I don't just think of myself, DH and DD. I also consider:
- My 89 yr old dad - My 4 living aunts and uncles and their spouses between the ages of 72 and 88 - My 4 siblings and their spouses between the ages of 50 - 70 - My 19 nieces, nephews and step-nieces/nephews between the ages of 13 - 51 and their spouses where applicable - My 17 great nieces and nephews between the ages of 1 - 23 - My dozens of first cousins between the ages of 45 and 79 (counting only the living) - All of their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and, in some cases, great great grandchildren
And don't get me started on my first cousins once removed, second cousins, etc. I'm related to a hell of a lot of people scattered around this country. And there's all of their relatives that I don't share to be considered.
Another consideration is that even without the social programs we have that the US doesn't, we are going to have to pay more taxes just for the basics. Americans like to tell me that Canada only has the population and GDP of one state, California. We do, however have a hell of a lot more distance for all of our infrastructure to travel. We are always going to have to spend more just to stay connected.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 7, 2019 15:25:55 GMT -5
As a single healthy person with, I believe, adult children, you would have no benefit in Quebec other then the joys of living there. And that isn't sarcasm. There is a lot to enjoy in the cities and the countryside. Please consider that Weltz was responding to Treading Water Chloe who paid over $18,000 just for herself which is a different situation then yours. My family may be unusual even for Canada. When I consider things like taxes and social services, I don't just think of myself, DH and DD. I also consider: - My 89 yr old dad - My 4 living aunts and uncles and their spouses between the ages of 72 and 88 - My 4 siblings and their spouses between the ages of 50 - 70 - My 19 nieces, nephews and step-nieces/nephews between the ages of 13 - 51 and their spouses where applicable - My 17 great nieces and nephews between the ages of 1 - 23 - My dozens of first cousins between the ages of 45 and 79 (counting only the living) - All of their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and, in some cases, great great grandchildren And don't get me started on my first cousins once removed, second cousins, etc. I'm related to a hell of a lot of people scattered around this country. And there's all of their relatives that I don't share to be considered. Another consideration is that even without the social programs we have that the US doesn't, we are going to have to pay more taxes just for the basics. Americans like to tell me that Canada only has the population and GDP of one state, California. We do, however have a hell of a lot more distance for all of our infrastructure to travel. We are always going to have to spend more just to stay connected. I used to oversee the finance department of a company in Quebec. I loved it up there...in the summer! I'm from the northeast US and I thought I knew cold. Good God...I've never been so cold!lol The roads and infrastructure would be the same situation our fly over states have. Much lower population but they still have to maintain the roads, public parks, etc. Thanks for the discussion!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 7, 2019 15:30:47 GMT -5
Holy crap! $14,000 plus $313.41 plus $4,031.20? That's outrageous! Why do Americans put up with that? Because we pay a ton less in taxes than those of you living in Quebec pay. I quickly ran the numbers for a married couple with taxable income of $200k and what they would pay in Quebec (only Quebec and Federal) versus what I would pay in PA. The taxes were over $47k higher in Quebec, mainly due to the extremely high Quebec tax rate. I guess I could ask "how do Canadians put up with that?". I only pay 3.07% on income earned in PA, versus a top rate of 25.75% in Quebec (your lowest rate is 15%!). So looking at Chloe's numbers, she would be much better paying $18k in medical costs that you would not have to pay, versus paying an extra $48k in taxes. Ok, we are missing the medical premiums in that scenario. The cost of my plan is around $500/month or $6k a year. So add that to the $18k and I'm still only looking at $24k versus your increase in taxes of $47k. I would still rather pay my healthcare expenses, thank you very much. 1) Average salary in Quebec is under $50,000, so very few would pay those high taxes. 2) Our taxes don't just pay for healthcare, but also university education, eldercare, affordable child care, familial leave, baby bonuses and much more. How much do Americans have to shell out for daycare and nursing homes and university? We come out ahead. "I do not need nor want general social programs so I do not want to pay for them. I have very good health insurance and while not cheap, it is certainly not worth $48k extra in taxes. "
Yes, we know. Conservatives don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. "I've got mine, so screw you!" We don't mind paying for social programs because it benefits the entire community. Fewer people hungry, fewer people homeless, fewer people uneducated.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 7, 2019 15:51:24 GMT -5
Because we pay a ton less in taxes than those of you living in Quebec pay. I quickly ran the numbers for a married couple with taxable income of $200k and what they would pay in Quebec (only Quebec and Federal) versus what I would pay in PA. The taxes were over $47k higher in Quebec, mainly due to the extremely high Quebec tax rate. I guess I could ask "how do Canadians put up with that?". I only pay 3.07% on income earned in PA, versus a top rate of 25.75% in Quebec (your lowest rate is 15%!). So looking at Chloe's numbers, she would be much better paying $18k in medical costs that you would not have to pay, versus paying an extra $48k in taxes. Ok, we are missing the medical premiums in that scenario. The cost of my plan is around $500/month or $6k a year. So add that to the $18k and I'm still only looking at $24k versus your increase in taxes of $47k. I would still rather pay my healthcare expenses, thank you very much. 1) Average salary in Quebec is under $50,000, so very few would pay those high taxes. 2) Our taxes don't just pay for healthcare, but also university education, eldercare, affordable child care, familial leave, baby bonuses and much more. How much do Americans have to shell out for daycare and nursing homes and university? We come out ahead. "I do not need nor want general social programs so I do not want to pay for them. I have very good health insurance and while not cheap, it is certainly not worth $48k extra in taxes. "
Yes, we know. Conservatives don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. "I've got mine, so screw you!" We don't mind paying for social programs because it benefits the entire community. Fewer people hungry, fewer people homeless, fewer people uneducated. I've already paid for my college, I paid for my children's child care, I saved my maternity leave, I would never expect to get a bonus for giving birth, etc. You only come out if you are a person who takes advantage of the social programs. I'm sure there are plenty of people that do not go to college, do not have children, etc. I do not believe that they actually come out ahead. Based on the tax rates, I can say without question that I would not come out ahead in Quebec. And my attitude is never "I got mine" but "I paid for mine, so you can pay for yours".
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weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 7, 2019 15:58:04 GMT -5
1) Average salary in Quebec is under $50,000, so very few would pay those high taxes. 2) Our taxes don't just pay for healthcare, but also university education, eldercare, affordable child care, familial leave, baby bonuses and much more. How much do Americans have to shell out for daycare and nursing homes and university? We come out ahead. "I do not need nor want general social programs so I do not want to pay for them. I have very good health insurance and while not cheap, it is certainly not worth $48k extra in taxes. "
Yes, we know. Conservatives don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. "I've got mine, so screw you!" We don't mind paying for social programs because it benefits the entire community. Fewer people hungry, fewer people homeless, fewer people uneducated. I've already paid for my college, I paid for my children's child care, I saved my maternity leave, I would never expect to get a bonus for giving birth, etc. You only come out if you are a person who takes advantage of the social programs. I'm sure there are plenty of people that do not go to college, do not have children, etc. I do not believe that they actually come out ahead. Based on the tax rates, I can say without question that I would not come out ahead in Quebec. And my attitude is never "I got mine" but "I paid for mine, so you can pay for yours". Understood. "I've got mine, I paid for mine, so fuck everyone else!"
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weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 7, 2019 16:01:54 GMT -5
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Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 7, 2019 16:23:38 GMT -5
I've already paid for my college, I paid for my children's child care, I saved my maternity leave, I would never expect to get a bonus for giving birth, etc. You only come out if you are a person who takes advantage of the social programs. I'm sure there are plenty of people that do not go to college, do not have children, etc. I do not believe that they actually come out ahead. Based on the tax rates, I can say without question that I would not come out ahead in Quebec. And my attitude is never "I got mine" but "I paid for mine, so you can pay for yours". Understood. "I've got mine, I paid for mine, so fuck everyone else!" Better than people like you “you’ve paid for your own, now pay for mine”.
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weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 7, 2019 16:40:42 GMT -5
Understood. "I've got mine, I paid for mine, so fuck everyone else!" Better than people like you “you’ve paid for your own, now pay for mine”. I don't mind paying for others. It benefits everyone, like the proverbial Stone Soup.
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