Should NCAA athletes get a cut of the money?

[hoops902]

Oct 4, 2019 11:21:39 GMT -5 justme said:

I had one sentence about the other major leagues paying for their minor leagues and one about the NFL getting it for free and you glommed onto that and gave a two paragraph response about only that?

What else would you like me to have responded to?  I've noted that I think the way California is doing this by not actually giving players a "cut of the money" but rather letting them get endorsement deals is the right way to go.  So the entire 2nd major paragraph pretty much aligns.  And the first major paragraph talks mostly about the implications of giving players a cut, which you seem to acknowledge ends with not wanting that and instead wanting the endorsement stuff (so while I find the math interesting, none of it is meaningful to our discussion given that I agree with you, and your conclusion was that you prefer the current method anyways).

I think the minor league stuff is the only place in your response that I think perhaps hasn't thought through the implications of having the NFL "pay" for a minor league.  I'm pointing out that just because it annoys you doesn't mean that the athletes themselves would be better off.  Specifically in that I think the most robust minor league system (MLB) would probably have the majority of it's players prefer to get the benefits major college football programs do over their current setup.  

Heck, the NBA has a minor league, and nobody decent even wants to go there.  I think the idea of "they get it free and other sports don't" fails to account for the fact that those minor leagues other sports pay for are REALLY unattractive places to be for the most part.  They aren't doing it because of some altruistic ideal that the players should be there and they should be paying for it...they're doing it because they think it benefits their business model, and the NFL doesn't think it does.  

Ultimately, I'm in favor of letting people make their own decisions, and I would much prefer that once you're 18, you can enter any draft you want and make a living in your chosen profession.  That said, I don't find any compelling reason the NFL should institute a minor league system that runs under the umbrella of the NFL if they don't want to, just because other leagues have them (they already have practice teams that players get paid to play on...which given the health concerns of the NFL, seems a lot more appropriate than having them play games to begin with).

[thyme4change]

Oct 2, 2019 10:38:35 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Oct 2, 2019 10:25:08 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

As much as I hate the NCAA's rules and exploitation of athletes, if schools have to share the profits of the big sports, that money will come from elsewhere. More tuition increases? More student loan debt spread over an entire generation. All because we love a guy who is good with balls.

Fortunately, the new rule in CA which is driving most of this discussion isn't actually sharing any profits.  It's just letting kids go out and make money off their own likeness for endorsement deals on their own.  

I am so glad you said this. That was my understanding of the new law.

I also think athletes should be allowed to get a job. If you want to cap the hourly rate at 2x minimum wage, or whatever, so alumni won't pay superstars 400k per year to be a janitor, or whatever. But the thought that a girl who gets half a scholarship to play field hockey, and she can't deliver for Amazon to pay the rest of her bills sucks ass.

[gs11rmb]

Read this yesterday:  www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ncaa-week-6-stanford-ucla-football-match-ups-could-disappear-ncna1060861

The NCAA may decide to kick out California schools rather than comply.

[hoops902]

Oct 7, 2019 7:27:58 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Read this yesterday:  www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ncaa-week-6-stanford-ucla-football-match-ups-could-disappear-ncna1060861

The NCAA may decide to kick out California schools rather than comply.

They COULD, they've been saying they will...but that's a rather risky proposition on the part of the NCAA.  As more states look to pass these kinds of laws, the NCAA could easily be regulating themselves right out of existence. The NCAA has been looking at this kind of thing for a while now...seems to me this is likely more of a catalyst for change than a hill for them to die on.  

I think the limit they would go to is keeping some teams out of postseason contention initially for championships...actually kicking teams out and preventing teams from playing each other seems like it could cause the NCAA more problems than anything else.

[thyme4change]

The best athletes will flock to CA. They may become a super-elite mini-league.

[hoops902]

Oct 7, 2019 7:57:25 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The best athletes will flock to CA. They may become a super-elite mini-league.

Maybe, if the NCAA does actually ban them...then perhaps not.  There are already options for athletes straight out of college to go somewhere and get paid...and by and large athletes ignore those options because the NCAA provides tremendous exposure both for television as well as playing against the best competition (for example, basketball has the G-league, Europe, Australia).  And if you're making money off your likeness...then you need that broad exposure which mostly comes from playing for long-established college teams. 

You're also talking primarily football since soon players can go straight to the NBA.  There would be a lot of reason for a college quarterback to want to play in CA and make some money if they could...but little reason for elite players at other positions like linemen to bother.  It's hard for me to imagine the league being elite with just CA itself...there's such low exposure and little reason for a huge majority of a football team to do it because only a few positions are likely to make money off of their likeness.

I think the real impetus of change comes not with CA, but with a large number of states passing their own similar legislation to the point where another regulatory body similar to the NCAA could come in, organize a group of 10-30 large "Power 5" schools, and start to get TV deals, etc.

[knot12gossip]

... YES.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Oct 3, 2019 22:01:21 GMT -5 justme said:

Oct 3, 2019 21:38:02 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

They do get a cut- most of them attend college for free. That's a helluva stipend these days.

It's a pittance compared to the money universities are making off their labor.

Alrighty then, do we want to put the athletes on the hook for the stadiums, facilities- how about the liability for the fans, the parking facilities, and maybe they can be jointly and severally liable for the concussion lawsuits that you know are coming? Even if I had a list of victims, NCAA athletes wouldn't be on it- let alone at the top of it.

[hoops902]

Oct 24, 2019 17:57:26 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Oct 3, 2019 22:01:21 GMT -5 justme said:

It's a pittance compared to the money universities are making off their labor.

Alrighty then, do we want to put the athletes on the hook for the stadiums, facilities- how about the liability for the fans, the parking facilities, and maybe they can be jointly and severally liable for the concussion lawsuits that you know are coming? Even if I had a list of victims, NCAA athletes wouldn't be on it- let alone at the top of it.

Let's also be clear that the "it's a pittance" claims hold true for things like Football and Basketball.   Overall, the value of the payment athletes get, compared to the overall money the universities make off their labor, is definitely NOT a pittance.  If you consider NCAA athletes as a whole, and the money universities make as a whole...that's a much different look than comparing a big football school and looking only at the football program.

[thyme4change]

The NCAA is behind the times. They need to accept that many sports are (or near) year round. So what if field hockey has a longer season. Change the rules and keep up with the rest of the world.

[hoops902]

Oct 25, 2019 10:24:27 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

The NCAA is behind the times. They need to accept that many sports are (or near) year round. So what if field hockey has a longer season. Change the rules and keep up with the rest of the world.

I'm not following what you're saying with this.  

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Oct 25, 2019 7:53:14 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Oct 24, 2019 17:57:26 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Alrighty then, do we want to put the athletes on the hook for the stadiums, facilities- how about the liability for the fans, the parking facilities, and maybe they can be jointly and severally liable for the concussion lawsuits that you know are coming? Even if I had a list of victims, NCAA athletes wouldn't be on it- let alone at the top of it.

Let's also be clear that the "it's a pittance" claims hold true for things like Football and Basketball.   Overall, the value of the payment athletes get, compared to the overall money the universities make off their labor, is definitely NOT a pittance.  If you consider NCAA athletes as a whole, and the money universities make as a whole...that's a much different look than comparing a big football school and looking only at the football program.

Here's the thing- I'm not comparing NCAA athletes with professional athletes- I'm comparing them with the rest of the student body. They're already primadonnas. Most of them go to school for free, and often it's free-plus. They don't go to classes, they get tutored, some outright cheat-- when you get right down to it, I'd probably go the other way and stop ALL perks for athletes and ban colleges from TV contracts, advertising dollars, and all the rest of it.

[thyme4change]

It was pretty shitty when they made that video game and re-created college players with their names and everything, and they didn't get a dime. I don't think I would be too happy if someone used me (openly and undeniably) to make many millions, and then laughed right in my face because "I got free tuition". Given that most of the major sports players get almost zero education, it is really a farce.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2019 15:53:37 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

It was pretty shitty when they made that video game and re-created college players with their names and everything, and they didn't get a dime. I don't think I would be too happy if someone used me (openly and undeniably) to make many millions, and then laughed right in my face because "I got free tuition". Given that most of the major sports players get almost zero education, it is really a farce.

Agreed but what is messed up is everyone wants the game including college football players and they can’t find a way to make it happen, EA wanted to pay the players and the NC double aholes wouldn’t let them.