California's AB5 ("Uber" Law) is Totally Screwing Me Over

[Deleted]

I've earned ALL of my income in the last 10 years as a freelancer. Mostly, as a freelance writer for a company located in another state.

It looks like Jan 1st I will no longer be able to earn any freelance income anymore thanks to Ca's AB5 law.

It's expected that all of us gig workers will be notified our services are no longer needed because the companies we work for just aren't going to magically convert us to employees. They will simply just hire workers from other states or off-shore the work. How is this helpful again?

So, I don't qualify for unemployment and the state's making my income sources disappear. How's that okay? I'm going to be completely screwed. 

I have no idea what I will do. If I lose my contract work, then I may have to try and sell my house faster and move to a state where I can work. I can't physically/mentally handle a different job and don't have a vehicle to commute in. 

Thanks, California. 

[cameragrrl]

Are you sure this affects you?

“To hire an independent contractor, businesses must prove that the worker a) is free from the company’s control, b) is doing work that isn’t central to the company’s business, and c) has an independent business in that industry. If they don’t meet all three of those conditions, then they have to be classified as employees.”

www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2019/9/11/20850878/california-passes-ab5-bill-uber-lyft

[hoops902]

This entire thing basically just makes a specific law which includes rationale that was already supposed to be applied anyways.  If you didn't already meet the specifications of the bill, the employer was SUPPOSED to classify someone as an employee already. 


This is what happens when you have IRS "guidance" and companies say "well, we'll just do whatever we want and try to justify/argue it later". When you take things that are pretty clear already, but caveat it with "using judgement"...you're going to have people who just ignore it and use the "using judgement" excuse to do things they shouldn't be.  Then we have laws which take that judgement away and codify the existing rules. 

No different than telling your kids "I want you home around 10:00", and then they continually stay out until 3am under the idea that "well, I think that's around 10".  Eventually you just say "home by 10" and lose the "around" piece because your kid is knowingly doing the wrong thing and relying on SOME level of subjectivity to argue something ridiculous.  No different here...they're already SUPPOSED to be calling these people employees...but they're not, so they've lost that subjectivity.


Hard to be surprised that governments are going to take notice when huge entities blatantly thumb their nose at the rules...particularly when thumbing their nose results in a direct hit to government tax revenue. 

[bean29]

Sept 18, 2019 10:55:22 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

This entire thing basically just makes a specific law which includes rationale that was already supposed to be applied anyways.  If you didn't already meet the specifications of the bill, the employer was SUPPOSED to classify someone as an employee already. 


This is what happens when you have IRS "guidance" and companies say "well, we'll just do whatever we want and try to justify/argue it later". When you take things that are pretty clear already, but caveat it with "using judgement"...you're going to have people who just ignore it and use the "using judgement" excuse to do things they shouldn't be.  Then we have laws which take that judgement away and codify the existing rules. 

No different than telling your kids "I want you home around 10:00", and then they continually stay out until 3am under the idea that "well, I think that's around 10".  Eventually you just say "home by 10" and lose the "around" piece because your kid is knowingly doing the wrong thing and relying on SOME level of subjectivity to argue something ridiculous.  No different here...they're already SUPPOSED to be calling these people employees...but they're not, so they've lost that subjectivity.


Hard to be surprised that governments are going to take notice when huge entities blatantly thumb their nose at the rules...particularly when thumbing their nose results in a direct hit to government tax revenue. 

How do you figure the companies thumbing their noses - results in a hit to tax revenue - don't 1099 entities pay the same taxes as businesses?  Unless you are claiming that the contractors receive a 1099 and still don't file their taxes?  Not a tax accountant - so not sure of the effect.  They may not have to give health insurance but the government doesn't have a horse in that race, so ?

[hoops902]

Sept 18, 2019 11:48:28 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Sept 18, 2019 10:55:22 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

This entire thing basically just makes a specific law which includes rationale that was already supposed to be applied anyways.  If you didn't already meet the specifications of the bill, the employer was SUPPOSED to classify someone as an employee already. 


This is what happens when you have IRS "guidance" and companies say "well, we'll just do whatever we want and try to justify/argue it later". When you take things that are pretty clear already, but caveat it with "using judgement"...you're going to have people who just ignore it and use the "using judgement" excuse to do things they shouldn't be.  Then we have laws which take that judgement away and codify the existing rules. 

No different than telling your kids "I want you home around 10:00", and then they continually stay out until 3am under the idea that "well, I think that's around 10".  Eventually you just say "home by 10" and lose the "around" piece because your kid is knowingly doing the wrong thing and relying on SOME level of subjectivity to argue something ridiculous.  No different here...they're already SUPPOSED to be calling these people employees...but they're not, so they've lost that subjectivity.


Hard to be surprised that governments are going to take notice when huge entities blatantly thumb their nose at the rules...particularly when thumbing their nose results in a direct hit to government tax revenue. 

How do you figure the companies thumbing their noses - results in a hit to tax revenue - don't 1099 entities pay the same taxes as businesses?  Unless you are claiming that the contractors receive a 1099 and still don't file their taxes?  Not a tax accountant - so not sure of the effect.  They may not have to give health insurance but the government doesn't have a horse in that race, so ?

I'm claiming that overall, the likelihood of individual 1099 contractors paying their employment taxes is less than the likelihood of large companies paying their employment taxes.  Ditto for the timing of those employment taxes, when you're getting money, you want it sooner rather than later.

Also, for things like ride-sharing, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that a LOT of people who do it make less than the $600 annual threshold on 1099s from any individual company.

ETA:  Something didn't seem COMPLETELY right about the $600 figure...a quick search tells me it's $600 for things like bonuses, referrals, etc...but a $20,000 limit or 200 payments for a 1099-K).  So yeah, I'm going to guess that MANY drivers don't make either $600 in referrals/bonuses, $20,000 annually, or do more than 200 payments annual.  And I'm guessing that means a good number either don't pay taxes on that money or underreport their income (along with underreporting tips, which is a problem in any area where you get cash tips).

[Deleted]

As a 1099 contractor I pay all my own taxes, etc... 

My understanding is because the content writing jobs are all for content agencies or SEO folks, they no longer qualify as independent contractors.

There's been a lot written about all of us losing our work, but none of the companies I work for have yet issued anything. However, typically when you freelance you find out the day before something happens...

While it's a great law in theory, all it will do for most freelancers is eliminate their income. Frustrating.

[hoops902]

Sept 18, 2019 15:28:30 GMT -5 @rockhounder said:

As a 1099 contractor I pay all my own taxes, etc... 

My understanding is because the content writing jobs are all for content agencies or SEO folks, they no longer qualify as independent contractors.

There's been a lot written about all of us losing our work, but none of the companies I work for have yet issued anything. However, typically when you freelance you find out the day before something happens...

While it's a great law in theory, all it will do for most freelancers is eliminate their income. Frustrating.

Yes, but it's only eliminating their income because those companies weren't doing the right thing to begin with.  

I get that it's frustrating though, you're not necessarily doing anything wrong on your end, but I find it hard to blame California for this particular action when all they're doing is adding enforcement to something that was already SUPPOSED to be happening.

The reality is, if you don't qualify as an independent contractor under the new law, you didn't actually qualify as an independent contractor before.  You were treated as one, but you didn't actually qualify to be one.  

I also get that it's probably even more frustrating to be working, and then potentially lose your job to someone who works in a state where the companies can continue to get away with breaking the law more easily.  

[bean29]

Sept 18, 2019 11:57:37 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Sept 18, 2019 11:48:28 GMT -5 bean29 said:

How do you figure the companies thumbing their noses - results in a hit to tax revenue - don't 1099 entities pay the same taxes as businesses?  Unless you are claiming that the contractors receive a 1099 and still don't file their taxes?  Not a tax accountant - so not sure of the effect.  They may not have to give health insurance but the government doesn't have a horse in that race, so ?

I'm claiming that overall, the likelihood of individual 1099 contractors paying their employment taxes is less than the likelihood of large companies paying their employment taxes.  Ditto for the timing of those employment taxes, when you're getting money, you want it sooner rather than later.

Also, for things like ride-sharing, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that a LOT of people who do it make less than the $600 annual threshold on 1099s from any individual company.

ETA:  Something didn't seem COMPLETELY right about the $600 figure...a quick search tells me it's $600 for things like bonuses, referrals, etc...but a $20,000 limit or 200 payments for a 1099-K).  So yeah, I'm going to guess that MANY drivers don't make either $600 in referrals/bonuses, $20,000 annually, or do more than 200 payments annual.  And I'm guessing that means a good number either don't pay taxes on that money or underreport their income (along with underreporting tips, which is a problem in any area where you get cash tips).

I had to go look up what a 1099-K is and it is something to do with payment card transactions.  It is over $600 for individual subcontractors for 1099-MISC.  www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099gi.pdf

The corporations do get out of paying their half of FICA, and Workers Comp, and they don't have to provide insurance, but as you noted very part time workers probably did not qualify for insurance anyways.

more than 25 years ago I worked as a Contractor for a company that should have classified me as an employee.  If I had filed a complaint I probably would have won, but I never went there b/c I appreciated that the made a position for me when I needed it.  I was a former employee with a good number of years of service.  If they had put me back on the payroll for something like 2 weeks my pension would have vested and it would have cost them $$.  I was not real financially savy when I left there.  I don't know what my vested pension would have been worth, but I do regret it now.  I do believe though, that a good referral was worth the job when I needed it and giving up those $$.

[hoops902]

Sept 18, 2019 15:47:26 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Sept 18, 2019 11:57:37 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

I'm claiming that overall, the likelihood of individual 1099 contractors paying their employment taxes is less than the likelihood of large companies paying their employment taxes.  Ditto for the timing of those employment taxes, when you're getting money, you want it sooner rather than later.

Also, for things like ride-sharing, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that a LOT of people who do it make less than the $600 annual threshold on 1099s from any individual company.

ETA:  Something didn't seem COMPLETELY right about the $600 figure...a quick search tells me it's $600 for things like bonuses, referrals, etc...but a $20,000 limit or 200 payments for a 1099-K).  So yeah, I'm going to guess that MANY drivers don't make either $600 in referrals/bonuses, $20,000 annually, or do more than 200 payments annual.  And I'm guessing that means a good number either don't pay taxes on that money or underreport their income (along with underreporting tips, which is a problem in any area where you get cash tips).

I had to go look up what a 1099-K is and it is something to do with payment card transactions.  It is over $600 for individual subcontractors for 1099-MISC.  www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099gi.pdf

The corporations do get out of paying their half of FICA, and Workers Comp, and they don't have to provide insurance, but as you noted very part time workers probably did not qualify for insurance anyways.

more than 25 years ago I worked as a Contractor for a company that should have classified me as an employee.  If I had filed a complaint I probably would have won, but I never went there b/c I appreciated that the made a position for me when I needed it.  I was a former employee with a good number of years of service.  If they had put me back on the payroll for something like 2 weeks my pension would have vested and it would have cost them $$.  I was not real financially savy when I left there.  I don't know what my vested pension would have been worth, but I do regret it now.  I do believe though, that a good referral was worth the job when I needed it and giving up those $$.

It's the 1099-K, because it's considered a 3rd party network transaction.  It's on page 26 of your link, it's the lower half of the 1099-K box (the upper half being reference to card transactions).  That's why they are paying potentially 2 different ways.  If they get a bonus or referral or something, it's not on the 3rd party network as a transaction (and so if it's over $600 it has to go on a 1099-MISC), the actual rides they offer and are eventually being paid for are as part of that 3rd party network.

The IRS statement on 3rd party network transactions if you're interested:  www.irs.gov/payments/third-party-network-transactions-faqs#targetText=A%20third%20party%20settlement%20organization

This is basically the same methodology by which ebay doesn't have to send out 1099s to people who sell.  They're just an intermediary between 2 people, same as ride-sharing services...they're basically just helping you broker your deal and taking a fee for it (as opposed to say a 1099-MISC which would mean you're actually doing the work for Uber, as opposed to doing the work for the rider with Uber as the intermediary to facilitate the deal).  That's actually why the $600 stuck out as not making sense after I wrote it, because I've been selling on ebay for a number of years, and one time I did receive a 1099-K when I sold a lot through them...but most years I sell well over $600 but well under $20,000, and I get nothing from them.

ETA:  Fixed link.

[hoops902]

And since I mentioned ebay, I'll be curious to see how/if they are impacted by this.  The "has an independent business in that industry" seems like a difficult hurdle to get across for all of those companies that basically function as that intermediary.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2019 10:10:57 GMT -5 @rockhounder said:

I have no idea what I will do. If I lose my contract work, then I may have to try and sell my house faster and move to a state where I can work. I can't physically/mentally handle a different job and don't have a vehicle to commute in. 

You can secure residency in other states without the sale of your house in CA finished.  Hell you can let it go 10-20 years, you just have to establish residency in another state.  South Dakota and Florida are both know to be easy options as full time RVers use them and many businesses provide the "street address" PO box and services needed to be a resident.  Also in SD land is cheap so you can buy land and just be relocating for probably 1-2 years without issue.

Second, create an LLC and sell your services via that.  These take about 10 minutes to create in WI (again you can incorporate anywhere, you don't have to be a resident to open a business in any state).  We have hired several people that way as they wouldn't qualify for 1099 workers but if they run their own business then we are just buying their services.  Instead of a paycheck, they invoice us and each month.  Some additional paperwork for them, but no real change other than they can hold the money in the LLC and don't pay taxes on items like their accountant as those get deducted before the tax calculations instead of having to exceed some government minimum to deduct.

[Deleted]

Establishing residency in SD requires you spend a day there. I don't have a car or the money to get there. It would also immediately end my access to health coverage.

So, not sure how that would work, the same for setting up an LLC. The companies I freelance for only hires individual contractors. We already all run our own businesses as sole proprietors. And, my IP address still will show I am sitting in CA and working until I move.

I don't have the option to buy a car or move until my house sells and provides me the money to do so. I don't have credit and no one to help or loan me money even for the short-term. So, selling my house is the only way I can move on with my life and fund the project. 

The good news is once my house sells, I will have the cash to purchase a vehicle and the ability to go buy a new piece of property. And, my art and lapidary businesses will be fully funded and I won't have to write anymore for a living. Getting to that point is the challenge, since I planned to list in March.

For now, I am doing as much work as possible to save some income in case I get "your services are no longer needed, thank your state" emails at the end of the year. However, this time of year is a serious challenge because the freelance writing market gets flooded with people who write to make extra money for the holiday season.

It's also going to change the amount of cash I spend fixing/repairing my house prior to sale because I need to pile up all the extra cash I can find in case I need it to feed myself and pay my winter heating bills.

[kindthatjingles]

Is there other work you can do?

Might be time to find a different field or job to tide you over

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 18, 2019 10:10:57 GMT -5 @rockhounder said:

I've earned ALL of my income in the last 10 years as a freelancer. Mostly, as a freelance writer for a company located in another state.

It looks like Jan 1st I will no longer be able to earn any freelance income anymore thanks to Ca's AB5 law.

It's expected that all of us gig workers will be notified our services are no longer needed because the companies we work for just aren't going to magically convert us to employees. They will simply just hire workers from other states or off-shore the work. How is this helpful again?

So, I don't qualify for unemployment and the state's making my income sources disappear. How's that okay? I'm going to be completely screwed. 

I have no idea what I will do. If I lose my contract work, then I may have to try and sell my house faster and move to a state where I can work. I can't physically/mentally handle a different job and don't have a vehicle to commute in. 

Thanks, California. 

Move.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I moved (FINALLY) from Illinois to Florida in 2013 because I was tired of getting financially raped for the privilege of being otherwise inconvenienced and abused by state government bureaucrats. My wife didn't want to do it because we have family there and all the usual excuses. We save tens of thousands of dollars a year in taxes and fees, and if you figure it compounded it has been a great deal more. We don't love everything about Florida (see #FloridaMan - among others) but overall, we like the freedom and flexibility of not really noticing government much. It's not just the zero state income tax, either- our property tax rates are a third of what they were.

[azucena]

Sept 20, 2019 12:36:50 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 18, 2019 10:10:57 GMT -5 @rockhounder said:

I've earned ALL of my income in the last 10 years as a freelancer. Mostly, as a freelance writer for a company located in another state.

It looks like Jan 1st I will no longer be able to earn any freelance income anymore thanks to Ca's AB5 law.

It's expected that all of us gig workers will be notified our services are no longer needed because the companies we work for just aren't going to magically convert us to employees. They will simply just hire workers from other states or off-shore the work. How is this helpful again?

So, I don't qualify for unemployment and the state's making my income sources disappear. How's that okay? I'm going to be completely screwed. 

I have no idea what I will do. If I lose my contract work, then I may have to try and sell my house faster and move to a state where I can work. I can't physically/mentally handle a different job and don't have a vehicle to commute in. 

Thanks, California. 

Move.

Easy to say, but you may not realize that this poster survives below poverty level.  And when I say survives, I mean that literally.  She was in a tough marriage, her husband was disabled, had lots of medical bills, and died.  She's been supporting her son who had been having seizures that haven't been fully diagnosed or treated because Medicaid won't cover it.

I, for one, admire what she's been able to accomplish these past few years, and hope that she's able to figure out this latest hurdle and clear it.  She can't afford to just pick up and move.  Selling her house is complicated by the local pot cartel.

[saveinla]

There are a lot of exemptions to this law and it looks like freelance writers are included.


www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/AB5-gig-work-bill-All-your-questions-answered-14441764.php


Dozens of professions won exemptions to AB5, usually on the grounds that they set or negotiate their own rates, communicate directly with customers, and make at least twice minimum wage. They include doctors, psychologists, dentists, podiatrists, insurance agents, stock brokers, lawyers, accountants, engineers, veterinarians, direct sellers, real estate agents, hairstylists and barbers, aestheticians, commercial fishermen, marketing professionals, travel agents, graphic designers, grant writers, fine artists, enrolled agents, payment processing agents, repossession agents and human resources administrators. There are exceptions for photographers, photojournalists, freelance writers, editors or newspaper cartoonists who make 35 or fewer submissions a year, as well as for some types of business-to-business activities.

[hoops902]

Sept 20, 2019 13:16:44 GMT -5 saveinla said:

There are a lot of exemptions to this law and it looks like freelance writers are included.


www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/AB5-gig-work-bill-All-your-questions-answered-14441764.php


Dozens of professions won exemptions to AB5, usually on the grounds that they set or negotiate their own rates, communicate directly with customers, and make at least twice minimum wage. They include doctors, psychologists, dentists, podiatrists, insurance agents, stock brokers, lawyers, accountants, engineers, veterinarians, direct sellers, real estate agents, hairstylists and barbers, aestheticians, commercial fishermen, marketing professionals, travel agents, graphic designers, grant writers, fine artists, enrolled agents, payment processing agents, repossession agents and human resources administrators. There are exceptions for photographers, photojournalists, freelance writers, editors or newspaper cartoonists who make 35 or fewer submissions a year, as well as for some types of business-to-business activities.

As long as they make 35 or fewer submissions per year.  I have no idea how many OP makes.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2019 13:23:42 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Sept 20, 2019 13:16:44 GMT -5 saveinla said:

There are a lot of exemptions to this law and it looks like freelance writers are included.


www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/AB5-gig-work-bill-All-your-questions-answered-14441764.php


Dozens of professions won exemptions to AB5, usually on the grounds that they set or negotiate their own rates, communicate directly with customers, and make at least twice minimum wage. They include doctors, psychologists, dentists, podiatrists, insurance agents, stock brokers, lawyers, accountants, engineers, veterinarians, direct sellers, real estate agents, hairstylists and barbers, aestheticians, commercial fishermen, marketing professionals, travel agents, graphic designers, grant writers, fine artists, enrolled agents, payment processing agents, repossession agents and human resources administrators. There are exceptions for photographers, photojournalists, freelance writers, editors or newspaper cartoonists who make 35 or fewer submissions a year, as well as for some types of business-to-business activities.

As long as they make 35 or fewer submissions per year.  I have no idea how many OP makes.

I write about 100 blog posts per month for one client. 

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2019 13:11:48 GMT -5 azucena said:

Sept 20, 2019 12:36:50 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Move.

Easy to say, but you may not realize that this poster survives below poverty level.  And when I say survives, I mean that literally.  She was in a tough marriage, her husband was disabled, had lots of medical bills, and died.  She's been supporting her son who had been having seizures that haven't been fully diagnosed or treated because Medicaid won't cover it.

I, for one, admire what she's been able to accomplish these past few years, and hope that she's able to figure out this latest hurdle and clear it.  She can't afford to just pick up and move.  Selling her house is complicated by the local pot cartel.

Thanks.

Selling my house to the growers should land me in a decent financial situation for the rest of my life. It's getting there that's the current challenge.

I've been watching their buying patterns and know March is the best time to sell. Their buyers come in from back east then to start setting up their new sites. They are loaded with cash and the sales don't seem to drop out of escrow like mine did last time when I tried to sell in Nov-Dec.

My hope is my work won't their CA writers and I can keep writing for the first part of next year. After that I won't need to. I plan to generate all of my income from my own businesses.

I have some things I am not moving that I can sell, so I will do that sooner rather than later and pile up some savings.

From the proceeds of my house I plan to buy a decent truck/camper shell, pay off any lingering debt in my life, and travel for about 2 months with my dogs.

When I travel I will also generate material for a couple more books for Amazon. My books there generate passive income every month, and my plan is to write more for myself when I don't have to grind out so many blog posts every month just to pay the bills.

If my house sells for more than I think it will, I may buy a drone and GoPro since I will be traveling all over Eastern OR and it would make some amazing footage for my YouTube channel. 

I will buy another house and pay cash for it, but it will be something very small and very cheap. I'm looking at property about 1/3 of the sales price of my current home so I will have plenty of savings left over.

Ideally, I want a small 1 or 2 bedroom cabin type place with a garage I can use to cut rocks and make art. I've found a couple of options, so it's doable. 

[hoops902]

Sept 21, 2019 10:25:25 GMT -5 @rockhounder said:

Sept 20, 2019 13:23:42 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

As long as they make 35 or fewer submissions per year.  I have no idea how many OP makes.

I write about 100 blog posts per month for one client. 

I kind of assumed you might at minimum breach 35/year given this sounds like a significant part of your income.

[steph08]

Sept 21, 2019 10:25:25 GMT -5 @rockhounder said:

Sept 20, 2019 13:23:42 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

As long as they make 35 or fewer submissions per year.  I have no idea how many OP makes.

I write about 100 blog posts per month for one client. 

If you are writing 100 blog posts for just one client per month, you should be making way more than a poverty level income (I don't know if you still do or not). But seriously, I charge anywhere from 30 to 150 per post depending on the length of the piece and how long it is going to take me.

Sorry to derail, but that part stuck out to me.

[Deleted]

Sept 22, 2019 5:17:43 GMT -5 steph08 said:

Sept 21, 2019 10:25:25 GMT -5 @rockhounder said:

I write about 100 blog posts per month for one client. 

If you are writing 100 blog posts for just one client per month, you should be making way more than a poverty level income (I don't know if you still do or not). But seriously, I charge anywhere from 30 to 150 per post depending on the length of the piece and how long it is going to take me.

Sorry to derail, but that part stuck out to me.

Private clients are great if you can find them and get paid. Since I seem to have issues with that, I am working for one of the content mills.

They've been good to me, but at $15 for every 400 words, it's a total grind. I do about 35K-40K words a month. 

They used to have an unlimited amount of work, but it's been harder to get work lately. And, I can't earn more than $1400 per month or I lose my medical coverage...

I have a few places I can write, but I'm totally burned out on writing blogs at this point, so I plan to do something else after I move. I will have the access to good lapidary materials to make jewelry and I will have the cash to fund my art business so I can finally get all the supplies I need to produce pieces to sell. Between that, my books, and some other online gig work, I should pretty easily be able to replace my income.

[steph08]

Sept 22, 2019 9:28:55 GMT -5 @rockhounder said:

Sept 22, 2019 5:17:43 GMT -5 steph08 said:

If you are writing 100 blog posts for just one client per month, you should be making way more than a poverty level income (I don't know if you still do or not). But seriously, I charge anywhere from 30 to 150 per post depending on the length of the piece and how long it is going to take me.

Sorry to derail, but that part stuck out to me.

Private clients are great if you can find them and get paid. Since I seem to have issues with that, I am working for one of the content mills.

They've been good to me, but at $15 for every 400 words, it's a total grind. I do about 35K-40K words a month. 

They used to have an unlimited amount of work, but it's been harder to get work lately. And, I can't earn more than $1400 per month or I lose my medical coverage...

I have a few places I can write, but I'm totally burned out on writing blogs at this point, so I plan to do something else after I move. I will have the access to good lapidary materials to make jewelry and I will have the cash to fund my art business so I can finally get all the supplies I need to produce pieces to sell. Between that, my books, and some other online gig work, I should pretty easily be able to replace my income.

I forgot about the medical limit - it makes sense now.

I can totally understand being totally over writing. It can definitely be a grind!

[formerroomate99]

Rockhounder, what did you do before you moved to the sticks?

Again, there are plenty of small cities and fly over country where an educated articulate person like you could get a real job with a real wage and real benefits. Doing freelance writing an artsy stuff makes sense when you live in the middle of nowhere. But since you have to move anyway, why don’t you move someplace with a decent job market, get a real job and get yourself out of poverty?

[Deleted]

Sept 23, 2019 11:17:54 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Rockhounder, what did you do before you moved to the sticks?

Again, there are plenty of small cities and fly over country where an educated articulate person like you could get a real job with a real wage and real benefits. Doing freelance writing an artsy stuff makes sense when you live in the middle of nowhere. But since you have to move anyway, why don’t you move someplace with a decent job market, get a real job and get yourself out of poverty?

I was a Microsoft certified LAN Admin for Kaiser.

While at Kaiser, my late DH became seriously ill and I was put on an extra strong dose of Paxil. I believed then, and do today, it caused me to have permanent brain damage. 

The part of me that was motivated and able to get up every day and work long hours around other people is completely gone.

As a result of that and many years since rotating through every antidepressant on the market, I now live with severe social anxiety in addition to depression.

I'm not employable in a regular job. I can't handle being around other people or the public at all. I tried to go back to work a few years ago, completely freaked out, and left in the middle of my shift. 

I applied for SSDI after the incident above, but my doctor's opinion was I am "too intelligent to be disabled and I will figure something out..."

I don't enjoy living in poverty. I can't deal with people and work in the same way I used to, so that forces me to make a living online. Working online and for myself allows me to work around the days I can't function. It's not ideal, but it is what it is.

And, living very inexpensively allows me to enjoy my life though I'm not exactly rolling in the cash.

[formerroomate99]

Virtualvocations.com does remote jobs for tech. Your skills are probably out of date, but there’s plenty of free or nearly free training on the Internet.

[formerroomate99]

So sorry you have to go through all of this. You certainly don’t deserve it

[Deleted]

Sept 23, 2019 16:30:21 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

So sorry you have to go through all of this. You certainly don’t deserve it

Thanks.

Though not my favorite person, I watched an interview with Rosanne Barr recently where she talked about the fact that people have empathy for people with mental illness but only until they act like they have mental illness then they should just "act right".

I get annoyed with the assumption I can just "suck it up" and get a job and yet choose not to. It's frustrating as hell. (I don't mean you, I mean in the rest of my life.) I do remember the time I didn't feel the same way I do now. I sometimes think that makes it worse.

I need to be able to work long days when I feel well and not be under pressure to accomplish anything or deal with people on the days I feel horrible. When I am pressured to work when I can't, then I get horrible anxiety and can't deal with life for weeks instead of days. Doing life as I do seems to make me more functional more of the time. It's not ideal, but it works okay.

It's why I deal with the lower paying content mill work. I can work when I want and no one cares if I don't. 

Making art and jewelry and selling rocks won't make me a millionaire, but my writing income is pretty easy to replace with it. I don't really want to keep writing for others, but I probably will do some sort of combination.

I don't have any desire to sell at craft fairs or whatever. I will sell on my website, social media, and plan to do wholesale. 

I've learned by experience that hiking and rock hounding works better for depression/anxiety than medication ever did. I'm moving to eastern Oregon where property can be purchased cheaply and the rocks are world class. I'll have a good 4WD truck, endless miles of excellent rocks I can collect to cut, polish and make jewelry out of, and lots of exercise for me and the dog. I can't wait, actually. I plan to be in the Owyhee in the spring with my dog to enjoy the wild flowers and silicates.

A house down the street with 1/2 as much land, no shop, and no granny house just sold after 13 days on the market for $199K. It looks like it walked out of the 1970s inside. The house is the same size as mine. Mine is a mobile, but in this area that doesn't seem to make much difference like it does in other areas.

I have their real estate agent coming tomorrow to talk about the current value of mine. I will be shocked if mine goes over 200K in value. That's about twice what property here would be worth minus the growers. It's insanity. But, clearly time to cash out!    lol

[azucena]

Sept 23, 2019 17:07:55 GMT -5 @rockhounder said:

Sept 23, 2019 16:30:21 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

So sorry you have to go through all of this. You certainly don’t deserve it

Thanks.

Though not my favorite person, I watched an interview with Rosanne Barr recently where she talked about the fact that people have empathy for people with mental illness but only until they act like they have mental illness then they should just "act right".

I get annoyed with the assumption I can just "suck it up" and get a job and yet choose not to. It's frustrating as hell. (I don't mean you, I mean in the rest of my life.) I do remember the time I didn't feel the same way I do now. I sometimes think that makes it worse.

I need to be able to work long days when I feel well and not be under pressure to accomplish anything or deal with people on the days I feel horrible. When I am pressured to work when I can't, then I get horrible anxiety and can't deal with life for weeks instead of days. Doing life as I do seems to make me more functional more of the time. It's not ideal, but it works okay.

It's why I deal with the lower paying content mill work. I can work when I want and no one cares if I don't. 

Making art and jewelry and selling rocks won't make me a millionaire, but my writing income is pretty easy to replace with it. I don't really want to keep writing for others, but I probably will do some sort of combination.

I don't have any desire to sell at craft fairs or whatever. I will sell on my website, social media, and plan to do wholesale. 

I've learned by experience that hiking and rock hounding works better for depression/anxiety than medication ever did. I'm moving to eastern Oregon where property can be purchased cheaply and the rocks are world class. I'll have a good 4WD truck, endless miles of excellent rocks I can collect to cut, polish and make jewelry out of, and lots of exercise for me and the dog. I can't wait, actually. I plan to be in the Owyhee in the spring with my dog to enjoy the wild flowers and silicates.

A house down the street with 1/2 as much land, no shop, and no granny house just sold after 13 days on the market for $199K. It looks like it walked out of the 1970s inside. The house is the same size as mine. Mine is a mobile, but in this area that doesn't seem to make much difference like it does in other areas.

I have their real estate agent coming tomorrow to talk about the current value of mine. I will be shocked if mine goes over 200K in value. That's about twice what property here would be worth minus the growers. It's insanity. But, clearly time to cash out!    lol

Rockhounder - I sent you a PM.