Grocery check out being attacked by AFL CIO

[wvugurl26]

Sam's Club self check out is the best. No need to unload the cart, grab the scan gun and scan away.

[NastyWoman]

I avoid self check out like the plague. When they first were introduced here it was mostly because I was too lazy to try them out and I like having my groceries bagged for me. But then after 3 or 4 months they discovered that in a number of grocery stores near me someone had managed to install skimmers on the self check out machines.

This was years ago and I never heard of that happening again but I still don't trust those mostly unattended machines...

[movingforward]

Sept 5, 2019 0:47:00 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

I was in Target on Saturday, during the mid-afternoon, and the only registers they had open were self check-out.  Not the first time that I have seen it in this particular store.

Same thing happened to me on Monday morning. There was no option but to do self check-out. I only had 5-6 items so I didn't mind; however, if I had more I would have been ticked.

I will say the person there to help run the self check-out was extremely nice and friendly. He was walking around asking people how they were doing, cracking jokes and smiling. It did make the process much better.

Here the thing...people can try their hardest to stop this from happening but it isn't going to work. Companies are going to start automating, using robots, etc. Anything that saves them money. The future is upon us.

[andi9899]

Sept 5, 2019 11:10:12 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I avoid self check out like the plague. When they first were introduced here it was mostly because I was too lazy to try them out and I like having my groceries bagged for me. But then after 3 or 4 months they discovered that in a number of grocery stores near me someone had managed to install skimmers on the self check out machines.

This was years ago and I never heard of that happening again but I still don't trust those mostly unattended machines...

I got hacked by a skimmer on a gas pump. It can happen anywhere.

[hoops902]

Sept 5, 2019 11:07:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 5, 2019 10:18:20 GMT -5 sesfw said:

...

Technology is here to stay, and jobs evolve to develop and support it.

Technology is simply tools developed by humans, something that has been around for thousands of years. Yes it is here to stay.

And there are jobs that are created to develop that technology and jobs to support making those tools function properly.

But there are a lot of jobs that it has been determined will use those tools to accomplish tasks that human beings desire to have done. We, as human beings, have the power to determine which if any tools we will use to accomplish tasks.

Just because there is a tool developed does not dictate that it be used.

You don't HAVE to use it, but you probably need a better reason to protest it other than "it'll take away human jobs".  There are plenty of valid reasons not to use "technology" to do things...but if someone is arguing that we should stop it because it's taking away human jobs, that's essentially an argument that we need to step back 100+ years.  

And in the case of the OP, it's not really a valid argument...it's purely a self-serving straw to grasp.  Those same people are never going to suggest we get rid of cell phones, cash registers, bar codes, etc...all of which takes jobs away from people.

[billisonboard]

Sept 5, 2019 11:52:57 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Sept 5, 2019 11:07:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Technology is simply tools developed by humans, something that has been around for thousands of years. Yes it is here to stay.

And there are jobs that are created to develop that technology and jobs to support making those tools function properly.

But there are a lot of jobs that it has been determined will use those tools to accomplish tasks that human beings desire to have done. We, as human beings, have the power to determine which if any tools we will use to accomplish tasks.

Just because there is a tool developed does not dictate that it be used.

You don't HAVE to use it, but you probably need a better reason to protest it other than "it'll take away human jobs".  There are plenty of valid reasons not to use "technology" to do things...but if someone is arguing that we should stop it because it's taking away human jobs, that's essentially an argument that we need to step back 100+ years.  

And in the case of the OP, it's not really a valid argument...it's purely a self-serving straw to grasp.  Those same people are never going to suggest we get rid of cell phones, cash registers, bar codes, etc...all of which takes jobs away from people.

I disagree. Having an economic system in which people are employable and employed is a very worthwhile goal. I don't buy the, "OH MY GOD!! IF YOU DON'T ALLOW CUSTOMERS RATHER THAN A STORE EMPLOYEE RUN ITEMS OVER THE SCANNER NO ONE CAN HAVE A CELL PHONE!!!" argument.

[busymom]

It's a matter of changing your mindset.  I prefer to interact with people, anyway.  If all I get for going out in public is machines to interact with, what's the point of going out?  I might as well just stay home & order everything online for delivery.  Plus, if more people DO order online, I believe stores will sell less, not more.  I mean, why do you think they have all of the candy, and other impulse purchase items by the register?  

[hopetoberich]

I try to take my time using this when I ever do. I try and make the cashier who gets paid look good compared to my efforts for free! I don't work for free and its definitely taken away jobs. Many years ago I was a cashier
I seriously had to talk myself into going to work each day
6 months I was done.

[swamp]

I love the self checkout when I have a few things, or a bunch or produce.     I don't want to people more than I have to. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Produce used to drive me nuts but Wal-mart has fixed that.  There are little bar codes on produce now so you can scan and the register will do it's thing.

Before that it took me more time to look up each individual code than it did to wait in line for a cashier.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 5, 2019 12:38:29 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Produce used to drive me nuts but Wal-mart has fixed that.  There are little bar codes on produce now so you can scan and the register will do it's thing.

Before that it took me more time to look up each individual code than it did to wait in line for a cashier.

What if I only want to buy one banana or one small onion? Every single thing has a bar code affixed to it? How about one sticky bun or one bagel?

[hoops902]

Sept 5, 2019 12:10:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 5, 2019 11:52:57 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

You don't HAVE to use it, but you probably need a better reason to protest it other than "it'll take away human jobs".  There are plenty of valid reasons not to use "technology" to do things...but if someone is arguing that we should stop it because it's taking away human jobs, that's essentially an argument that we need to step back 100+ years.  

And in the case of the OP, it's not really a valid argument...it's purely a self-serving straw to grasp.  Those same people are never going to suggest we get rid of cell phones, cash registers, bar codes, etc...all of which takes jobs away from people.

I disagree. Having an economic system in which people are employable and employed is a very worthwhile goal. I don't buy the, "OH MY GOD!! IF YOU DON'T ALLOW CUSTOMERS RATHER THAN A STORE EMPLOYEE RUN ITEMS OVER THE SCANNER NO ONE CAN HAVE A CELL PHONE!!!" argument.

You can't say "it's ok when technology takes away jobs, except when it happens to ME" and expect anyone to take you seriously when you say you care about technology taking people's jobs.  Technology has been taking human jobs for centuries, and the people who are losing their jobs at the time always complain about it, and pretty much everyone else shrugs and smiles at how their lives have improved due to the technology.  

Having an economic system in which people are employable and employed is a GREAT goal.  The way to do that is by figuring out how people can be employed in the economy, which will often mean changing with the times.  Having an economic system in which people are employable and employed specifically because we've shunned innovation in the name of keeping jobs manual is NOT a worthwhile goal if the only reason innovation is being shunned is that it would automate a job.  

The cell phone thing is the perfect argument.  You don't think when we got rid of operators that everyone who was an operator was like "omg, this is terrible, we should keep our current system, what about my job"?  You can't just halt progress because someone with an easily automated, unskilled job can be simply replaced by technology.  There are lots of anti-technology arguments that carry some weight (data leaks, risk of hack, etc).  An argument that "jobs will be replaced so we shouldn't do it" is lazy and not even honest.  Notice how those same people don't care one bit when their lives are benefited by technology and OTHER people lose their jobs over it.

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2019 13:08:03 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 5, 2019 12:38:29 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Produce used to drive me nuts but Wal-mart has fixed that.  There are little bar codes on produce now so you can scan and the register will do it's thing.

Before that it took me more time to look up each individual code than it did to wait in line for a cashier.

What if I only want to buy one banana or one small onion? Every single thing has a bar code affixed to it? How about one sticky bun or one bagel?

How do you buy one bun now?  Does someone manually look it up at the check out?  The bakery, deli and meat dept in our grocery store package and mark individual packages, so if you just got one bun it would be barcoded.  Bananas and most produce do have individual barcodes, there's at least a couple on each bundle of bananas anyhow so you could break off one that had a code. 

[weltschmerz]

Sept 5, 2019 13:16:11 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 5, 2019 13:08:03 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

What if I only want to buy one banana or one small onion? Every single thing has a bar code affixed to it? How about one sticky bun or one bagel?

How do you buy one bun now?  Does someone manually look it up at the check out?  The bakery, deli and meat dept in our grocery store package and mark individual packages, so if you just got one bun it would be barcoded.  Bananas and most produce do have individual barcodes, there's at least a couple on each bundle of bananas anyhow so you could break off one that had a code. 

My store has its own bakery. There are bins of buns/rolls/bagels. You take the tongs and put one bun in a bag. The cashier looks it up at the check-out.

[weltschmerz]

Bananas and most produce do have individual barcodes, there's at least a couple on each bundle of bananas anyhow so you could break off one that had a code

So you end up with bunches of bananas with no codes on them. Cashier still has to look it up. I'm not doing it.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sept 5, 2019 13:08:03 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 5, 2019 12:38:29 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Produce used to drive me nuts but Wal-mart has fixed that.  There are little bar codes on produce now so you can scan and the register will do it's thing.

Before that it took me more time to look up each individual code than it did to wait in line for a cashier.

What if I only want to buy one banana or one small onion? Every single thing has a bar code affixed to it? How about one sticky bun or one bagel?

My two avocados each had a bar code. I did not check the onions sorry.

I have no idea about buns or bagels. If it's an issue I suppose I'll use a cashier.

It's no big whoop to me.

I happen to like not having to stand in one of two lines crammed with full carts when I only had two pieces of produce to ring up.

[chiver78]

Sept 5, 2019 13:21:09 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Bananas and most produce do have individual barcodes, there's at least a couple on each bundle of bananas anyhow so you could break off one that had a code

So you end up with bunches of bananas with no codes on them. Cashier still has to look it up. I'm not doing it.

4011. you're welcome.

[weltschmerz]

Our supermarket chains are making money hand over fist. Immense profits. They charge $1.29 for one lemon, that I can buy 4 for a $1 at a little mom and pop store. Same lemons. Now I'm supposed to do the big chain's work for them, by looking up my own codes and bagging my own groceries? Not going to happen.

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2019 13:21:09 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Bananas and most produce do have individual barcodes, there's at least a couple on each bundle of bananas anyhow so you could break off one that had a code

So you end up with bunches of bananas with no codes on them. Cashier still has to look it up. I'm not doing it.

No.  I said each banana doesn't necessarily have a code, but you only need one code to scan.  They might all have them, I don't know.  I've never had an issue breaking up bundles though. 

[hoops902]

Sept 5, 2019 13:28:51 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Our supermarket chains are making money hand over fist. Immense profits. They charge $1.29 for one lemon, that I can buy 4 for a $1 at a little mom and pop store. Same lemons. Now I'm supposed to do the big chain's work for them, by looking up my own codes and bagging my own groceries? Not going to happen.

SUPPOSED to?  No, who is saying you're supposed to?

Have an OPTION to if you think it's to your benefit?  Absolutely.  

You're already doing the big chain's work for them aren't you?   Back in the day you'd just bring in a list and hand it to someone, and they'd turn around and find your items on the shelves behind them...now, like a sucker, you're walking and reaching when that's THEIR job

[weltschmerz]

Not only are they making immense profits, but....

Environment Minister Catherine McKenna is defending the decision to give up to $12 million in funding to Loblaw (huge grocery chain)so it can install more energy-efficient fridges.

That comes just a year and a half after the company fought against raising the minimum wage, admitted to a 14-year bread price-fixing scheme and ended up in a tax court battle last year that saw it ordered to pay back taxes worth roughly $368 million related to a banking subsidiary in the Caribbean.

globalnews.ca/news/5145773/catherine-mckenna-loblaw-new-fridges/

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2019 13:28:51 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Our supermarket chains are making money hand over fist. Immense profits. They charge $1.29 for one lemon, that I can buy 4 for a $1 at a little mom and pop store. Same lemons. Now I'm supposed to do the big chain's work for them, by looking up my own codes and bagging my own groceries? Not going to happen.

I guess I just wouldn't go to the store that charge 5X as much anyways so the self checkout wouldn't be an issue.  Our big chains sell for way cheaper than the mom and pops which is why the mom and pops are going out of business. 

[weltschmerz]

Sept 5, 2019 13:21:47 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Sept 5, 2019 13:08:03 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

What if I only want to buy one banana or one small onion? Every single thing has a bar code affixed to it? How about one sticky bun or one bagel?

My two avocados each had a bar code. I did not check the onions sorry.

I have no idea about buns or bagels. If it's an issue I suppose I'll use a cashier.

It's no big whoop to me.

I happen to like not having to stand in one of two lines crammed with full carts when I only had two pieces of produce to ring up.

...and that's fine. To each his own. You like it, so you use it. I don't like it, so I don't use it.

[billisonboard]

Sept 5, 2019 13:15:41 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Sept 5, 2019 12:10:16 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I disagree. Having an economic system in which people are employable and employed is a very worthwhile goal. I don't buy the, "OH MY GOD!! IF YOU DON'T ALLOW CUSTOMERS RATHER THAN A STORE EMPLOYEE RUN ITEMS OVER THE SCANNER NO ONE CAN HAVE A CELL PHONE!!!" argument.

You can't say "it's ok when technology takes away jobs, except when it happens to ME" and expect anyone to take you seriously when you say you care about technology taking people's jobs.  Technology has been taking human jobs for centuries, and the people who are losing their jobs at the time always complain about it, and pretty much everyone else shrugs and smiles at how their lives have improved due to the technology.  

Having an economic system in which people are employable and employed is a GREAT goal.  The way to do that is by figuring out how people can be employed in the economy, which will often mean changing with the times.  Having an economic system in which people are employable and employed specifically because we've shunned innovation in the name of keeping jobs manual is NOT a worthwhile goal if the only reason innovation is being shunned is that it would automate a job.  

The cell phone thing is the perfect argument.  You don't think when we got rid of operators that everyone who was an operator was like "omg, this is terrible, we should keep our current system, what about my job"?  You can't just halt progress because someone with an easily automated, unskilled job can be simply replaced by technology.  There are lots of anti-technology arguments that carry some weight (data leaks, risk of hack, etc).  An argument that "jobs will be replaced so we shouldn't do it" is lazy and not even honest.  Notice how those same people don't care one bit when their lives are benefited by technology and OTHER people lose their jobs over it.

I think that it is possible for us to determine things on a case by case basis.

[bean29]

Produce is not that bad, you just press the button for look up item, then it has pictures of common items, or you punch in the first few letters of the item like bag for bagel or Ban for Banana DH and I did it just he other day. Like I said, I have more issues with the check out saying I should bag something that is already bagged, or having a lot of items and if you pull a bag, it goes nuts cause it can't calculate the weight and figure out if you are trying to steal something.

[souldoubt]

My goal when shopping is to get in and get out as fast as reasonably possible.  I've got no problem if a place doesn't have self check out but if they do and I don't have a lot of items that's what I opt for.  The local target has been doing renovations and they reorganized the self check out section to add more.  Plenty of people still stand in the traditional check out lines which always seem to be backed up 3-4 people while the self check out has me out of there in no time.  Bagging, checking and fast food jobs are only going to continue to decrease especially with the push to raise wages and increase benefits.  

[hoops902]

Sept 5, 2019 14:06:11 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 5, 2019 13:15:41 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

You can't say "it's ok when technology takes away jobs, except when it happens to ME" and expect anyone to take you seriously when you say you care about technology taking people's jobs.  Technology has been taking human jobs for centuries, and the people who are losing their jobs at the time always complain about it, and pretty much everyone else shrugs and smiles at how their lives have improved due to the technology.  

Having an economic system in which people are employable and employed is a GREAT goal.  The way to do that is by figuring out how people can be employed in the economy, which will often mean changing with the times.  Having an economic system in which people are employable and employed specifically because we've shunned innovation in the name of keeping jobs manual is NOT a worthwhile goal if the only reason innovation is being shunned is that it would automate a job.  

The cell phone thing is the perfect argument.  You don't think when we got rid of operators that everyone who was an operator was like "omg, this is terrible, we should keep our current system, what about my job"?  You can't just halt progress because someone with an easily automated, unskilled job can be simply replaced by technology.  There are lots of anti-technology arguments that carry some weight (data leaks, risk of hack, etc).  An argument that "jobs will be replaced so we shouldn't do it" is lazy and not even honest.  Notice how those same people don't care one bit when their lives are benefited by technology and OTHER people lose their jobs over it.

I think that it is possible for us to determine things on a case by case basis.

Yeah, everyone who thinks "this is fine, unless it happens to ME" thinks that way.  No no no, this is totally different...because it's happening to me this time!

That's precisely what's happening with the case in the OP.  "We have to stop this, because it's taking people JOBS".  Oh, but what about the millions of other examples of people losing their jobs to technology, and it primarily targeting low-skilled/unskilled individuals because those are the jobs easiest to automate?  "Well...this time it will harm me, so we have to stop it THIS time".  

It's possible to determine things on a case by case basis...but so far there's been ZERO to distinguish THIS case from any of the other millions of cases throughout the centuries of basic technology replacing low-skilled or unskilled individuals in a rather minor way.

So what makes this "case" any different from the millions of similar cases where the only people who really cared were the people directly impacted by losing their jobs?

[billisonboard]

Sept 5, 2019 14:31:25 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Sept 5, 2019 14:06:11 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I think that it is possible for us to determine things on a case by case basis.

Yeah, everyone who thinks "this is fine, unless it happens to ME" thinks that way.  No no no, this is totally different...because it's happening to me this time!

That's precisely what's happening with the case in the OP.  "We have to stop this, because it's taking people JOBS".  Oh, but what about the millions of other examples of people losing their jobs to technology, and it primarily targeting low-skilled/unskilled individuals because those are the jobs easiest to automate?  "Well...this time it will harm me, so we have to stop it THIS time".  

It's possible to determine things on a case by case basis...but so far there's been ZERO to distinguish THIS case from any of the other millions of cases throughout the centuries of basic technology replacing low-skilled or unskilled individuals in a rather minor way.

So what makes this "case" any different from the millions of similar cases where the only people who really cared were the people directly impacted by losing their jobs?

Just heard on the local TV news that the Oregon AFL CIO Union are getting together a ballot measure to restrict the number of self check out stations a store can have to 2 self checkout stations. (from the OP)

More people than those who are directly impacted will have to sign petitions to get it on the ballot and the measure will have to pass with enough votes.

[TheOtherMe]

The store where I shop (I refuse to shop at Walmart) for groceries is very good about opening up more registers if there is even one customer waiting.  This store doesn't even have self checkout, so I don't have to make that decision.

Hy-Vee used to be my go to but not any more.  They are the store who checks me out but expects me to put my own groceries in the cart while they ring up the next customer.

I'd like to go back to the days when the wonderful cashiers had all the prices memorized.

[NastyWoman]

Sept 5, 2019 11:29:17 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Sept 5, 2019 11:10:12 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I avoid self check out like the plague. When they first were introduced here it was mostly because I was too lazy to try them out and I like having my groceries bagged for me. But then after 3 or 4 months they discovered that in a number of grocery stores near me someone had managed to install skimmers on the self check out machines.

This was years ago and I never heard of that happening again but I still don't trust those mostly unattended machines...

I got hacked by a skimmer on a gas pump. It can happen anywhere.

True, but these grocery stores were within miles of my home (I have a boatload of choices here) so it felt too close for comfort. Also I tend to shop at times when others don't, so I never have to wait long anyway → plus it gives me time to scan the headlines of those gossip rags which I only get to read when I am at the hairdresser