happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 6, 2019 15:09:29 GMT -5
Current background checks are too weak. Doesn't mean they aren't useful, just means they need improvement.
And the Odessa guy got his gun from a private sale, which, in Texas, doesn't require a background check at all.
There's been legislation proposed that would increase the background check to include cross checking domestic abuse arrests, terrorist watch lists and other lists of potentially violent/mentally imbalanced people - and to require them when purchasing ANY weapon, not just guns purchased in stores. Sounds like common sense, right? McConnell didn't think so - he's been killing any proposed background check improvement laws that hit his desk.
Doesn't sound like common sense. List makers don't have the authority to override the second amendment. However, that kind of thing does happen in dictatorships. I like your "potential" aspect, for restricting constitutional rights. Think of the cross application for other amendments. Interesting concept for the U.S. Wouldn't you say ? There you go, disputing language again when you don't have a rationale argument.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 6, 2019 15:10:14 GMT -5
Ok we are doing private gun sales, background checks on them,
Remember where as an experiment, I went out looking for a gun to buy, just causally asking strangers if they knew anyone that had a gun for sale,
it took me 42 minutes. So what law are you going to pass that stops, someone that has failed all background checks, goes out and does the same thing I did?? So ,, we are going to pass a law that is so severe to make sure they don't buy guns like that?? Like a law stronger than say,,, murder one?? that a pretty strong law,, it does not stop people from killing each other,, Let's pass a bunch of laws that only effect the law biding citizen,, there you go ,, you have accomplished nothing,,
So when those don't work,, let's pass more that don't work?? Oh by the way the rifle I bought came with a cleaning kit, ammo, a red dot optics sight, and a case. which leads me to believe the gun was not stolen,, the thief would have only gabbed the gun, in their hast to get out, before they were caught! Harsh penalties have had a huge impact on drunk driving. People still do it, but not nearly as much as they did. If we can get regular law abiding citizens to not want to risk an "off the books" gun sale, we will reduce those kinds of sales. I don't know if you found a regular guy who wanted to do a private sale, which is legal, so 42 minutes isn't shocking. It might have taken you longer if private sales had more restrictions. Murder one is a pretty harsh penalty. does not seem to stop people from killing each other, A slap on the wrist will scare the hell out them,,, I had not thought about that.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 6, 2019 15:12:27 GMT -5
Of the Countries listed, aren't those Countries that the government allows no guns for the general population? No guns = no gun deaths, , OK what's is next total confiscation of 300-400 million guns in the hands of the Crazy Americans?
First thing I saw when looking at the graphs, was the cherry picking of the other countries that were named Quote; Private ownership of guns — whether pistols, rifles or shotguns — is almost unheard of in China. Handgun permits are sometimes (but rarely) given to people living in remote areas for protection against wild animals. rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/china-calls-for-no-delay-on-gun-controls-in-u-s/And... Quote; Apr 27, 2016 · Russia has a short history of private gun ownership — it was rare during the Soviet era — but the country's stillborn civil society has started to push for greater access to firearms.
www.themoscowtimes.com/2016/04/27/russians-their-guns-and-the-state-a52720
And... Quote; Gun ownership can result in many ways in India, in some destructive ways, in some positive ways too : Controlled use of guns might curb the violent crimes against women at all the nook and corners of India. www.quora.com/What-would-happen-if-gun-ownership-was-legalized-in-IndiaIf you only want to compare our gun violence rates against other countries that have similar loose gun laws, like ours, you're going to have to dig into some countries like Somalia - countries with a lot of civil unrest, and consequently, high murder rates. That'll cherry pick the data all right.
It's it sad when your country's statistics are so crappy you have to compare yourself to third world banana republics in order for the numbers to look good?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 6, 2019 15:14:05 GMT -5
We have already had all kinds of mass shooting with the shooter passed the background checks. It is pretty certain that background checks alone don't work. Lets do a whole bunch more background because the background checks we are doing don't work.. That's great!! Current background checks are too weak. Doesn't mean they aren't useful, just means they need improvement.
And the Odessa guy got his gun from a private sale, which, in Texas, doesn't require a background check at all.
There's been legislation proposed that would increase the background check to include cross checking domestic abuse arrests, terrorist watch lists and other lists of potentially violent/mentally imbalanced people - and to require them when purchasing ANY weapon, not just guns purchased in stores. Sounds like common sense, right? McConnell didn't think so - he's been killing any proposed background check improvement laws that hit his desk.
terrorist watch lists
So that's why San Francisco has put NRA on a terrorist list,
So law biding citizens can not buy guns in their city!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 6, 2019 15:21:42 GMT -5
Ok we are doing private gun sales, background checks on them,
Remember where as an experiment, I went out looking for a gun to buy, just causally asking strangers if they knew anyone that had a gun for sale,
it took me 42 minutes. So what law are you going to pass that stops, someone that has failed all background checks, goes out and does the same thing I did?? So ,, we are going to pass a law that is so severe to make sure they don't buy guns like that?? Like a law stronger than say,,, murder one?? that a pretty strong law,, it does not stop people from killing each other,, Let's pass a bunch of laws that only effect the law biding citizen,, there you go ,, you have accomplished nothing,,
So when those don't work,, let's pass more that don't work?? Oh by the way the rifle I bought came with a cleaning kit, ammo, a red dot optics sight, and a case. which leads me to believe the gun was not stolen,, the thief would have only gabbed the gun, in their hast to get out, before they were caught! So based on your argument, since people are still going to murder other people even though killing people is illegal, we should just stop prosecuting murderers?
What's the point, right? Murderers are going to murder, regardless of whether it's legal or illegal, so it's pointless to have laws against it.
Let's not bother to have laws against anything, since people keep breaking the law. Let's have a free range society. Like living in the movie Purge, 24-7 because it's just so annoying to make a law that people will just break.
The point is and you know it, The ultimate penalty is Murder one! Every one know it! Does It stop people from killing each other?? Yep. when faced with 25 years in prison, then the death chamber doesn't scare some one killing someone else,,
You bought a illegal gun,,, Man are you going to pay!!!! we are now going to exacute you three times now!!!! That's the trick.. bet you are scared now!!!!!!!
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 6, 2019 15:23:40 GMT -5
Current background checks are too weak. Doesn't mean they aren't useful, just means they need improvement.
And the Odessa guy got his gun from a private sale, which, in Texas, doesn't require a background check at all.
There's been legislation proposed that would increase the background check to include cross checking domestic abuse arrests, terrorist watch lists and other lists of potentially violent/mentally imbalanced people - and to require them when purchasing ANY weapon, not just guns purchased in stores. Sounds like common sense, right? McConnell didn't think so - he's been killing any proposed background check improvement laws that hit his desk.
terrorist watch lists
So that's why San Francisco has put NRA on a terrorist list,
So law biding citizens can not buy guns in their city!
So the NRA is the only group that sells guns? I did not know that.
If you can only buy guns from the NRA, what do they sell in all those gun shops? I ask because I haven't gone into one, assuming they sell - you know, guns and rifles and such, things I haven't needed so far in my life, but if they actually sell other things (since the NRA sells all the guns) then I might have to check one out.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Sept 6, 2019 15:31:16 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 6, 2019 15:37:48 GMT -5
Do you have any data on the number of legal carrying concealed permit holders that have been charge with murder?? To get your CCW, they do a hard FBI background check,, In fact if you do carry a CCW, you DO NOT have to go thru a back ground check when you buy a gun!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 6, 2019 15:40:45 GMT -5
terrorist watch lists
So that's why San Francisco has put NRA on a terrorist list,
So law biding citizens can not buy guns in their city!
So the NRA is the only group that sells guns? I did not know that.
If you can only buy guns from the NRA, what do they sell in all those gun shops? I ask because I haven't gone into one, assuming they sell - you know, guns and rifles and such, things I haven't needed so far in my life, but if they actually sell other things (since the NRA sells all the guns) then I might have to check one out.
What are you talking about??
So the NRA is the only group that sells guns
The NRA does not sell guns, It may give them away ,
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 6, 2019 15:46:57 GMT -5
So for all of you "it's my right" gun nuts, what would it take for your stance to change? Does someone in your family have to die because of inadequate background checks/ lack of bans on ARs? I mean seriously. Would you just say "well he obtained it legally, so it's ok"? And if it's not ok for you to lose your spouse/child/parent, why should it be ok for anyone else? Moon, The most severe penalty is murder one, if that does not stop some one from taking a gun, or any other weapon to kill someone. Slapping their hand with, Boy now you are in real trouble you bought an illegal gun!
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Sept 6, 2019 16:03:43 GMT -5
So because murder 1 doesn't deter anyone, we should just not make any changes? Are you out of your mind? And I'd like to be clear. I support more thorough background checks for all guns, and banning assault rifles entirely. John Q Public doesn't need an additional rifle for home defense or hunting.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 6, 2019 20:04:02 GMT -5
Harsh penalties have had a huge impact on drunk driving. People still do it, but not nearly as much as they did. If we can get regular law abiding citizens to not want to risk an "off the books" gun sale, we will reduce those kinds of sales. I don't know if you found a regular guy who wanted to do a private sale, which is legal, so 42 minutes isn't shocking. It might have taken you longer if private sales had more restrictions. Murder one is a pretty harsh penalty. does not seem to stop people from killing each other, A slap on the wrist will scare the hell out them,,, I had not thought about that. How do you know it doesn't stop people? I feel like killing someone right now, but I don't want to end up in jail. It might not stop everyone, but it probably has stopped someone. I know you hate data, but statistics clearly show that as DUI penalties have gotten harsher, death and injury rates from drunk drivers has been reduced significantly. People use to think having a bunch of drinks and driving home was no big deal - and it wasn't illegal. And when they put in laws, people were all irritated. But, as time has passed, people got used to it and find other ways to get home from the bar (thanks Uber!) People may be happily doing a perfectly legal activity of selling guns privately and not having to do any background checks. And if we make that illegal, people will fuss for a while, and then people will just get used to it. It won't stop 100% of the sales, but it could reduce those sales drastically.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 6, 2019 20:13:23 GMT -5
43%? That is not a number I have ever heard before. At least not in this decade. I've always heard more like 1/3rd. Should we have a source-off? Households. I'm mobile like you, hard for me to get all the ones I have posted in the recent past. It would have to wait till Monday at least, but I'm good with that. It actually hasn't changed much at all, includes this decade. I think PEW says 42% right now if I'm remembering correctly. Either/or, even if it's 30 percent of households, that's a lot of law abiding owners that shouldn't really be referred to as "gun nuts". That was my point. The Second Amendment is a right in this country, and was affirmed as an individual right by the Supreme Court not all that long ago. It has been found, multiple times, that public safety measures around gun ownership are not impeding your constitutional rights.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 6, 2019 22:18:45 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 6, 2019 22:50:09 GMT -5
So because murder 1 doesn't deter anyone, we should just not make any changes? Are you out of your mind? And I'd like to be clear. I support more thorough background checks for all guns, and banning assault rifles entirely. John Q Public doesn't need an additional rifle for home defense or hunting. Banning assault rifles will mean next to nothing, by far more people are done in with a pistol, not a rifle certainly not an assault rifle. None of these guns fire by themselves!
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Sept 6, 2019 23:36:26 GMT -5
So because murder 1 doesn't deter anyone, we should just not make any changes? Are you out of your mind? And I'd like to be clear. I support more thorough background checks for all guns, and banning assault rifles entirely. John Q Public doesn't need an additional rifle for home defense or hunting. Banning assault rifles will mean next to nothing, by far more people are done in with a pistol, not a rifle certainly not an assault rifle. None of these guns fire by themselves!
Please inform us on the last mass killing of 10 or more or one at a school was done by hand gun alone. There might have been 1.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 6, 2019 23:38:38 GMT -5
Banning assault rifles will mean next to nothing, by far more people are done in with a pistol, not a rifle certainly not an assault rifle. None of these guns fire by themselves!
Please inform us on the last mass killing of 10 or more or one at a school was done by hand gun alone. There might have been 1. Virginia Tech.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 6, 2019 23:41:48 GMT -5
using pistols, killed thirty two, wounded seventeen!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 6, 2019 23:46:17 GMT -5
Current background checks are too weak. Doesn't mean they aren't useful, just means they need improvement.
And the Odessa guy got his gun from a private sale, which, in Texas, doesn't require a background check at all.
There's been legislation proposed that would increase the background check to include cross checking domestic abuse arrests, terrorist watch lists and other lists of potentially violent/mentally imbalanced people - and to require them when purchasing ANY weapon, not just guns purchased in stores. Sounds like common sense, right? McConnell didn't think so - he's been killing any proposed background check improvement laws that hit his desk.
terrorist watch lists
So that's why San Francisco has put NRA on a terrorist list,
So law biding citizens can not buy guns in their city!
Stephen Paddock was a law biding [sic] citizen........ until he wasn't.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 7, 2019 0:00:10 GMT -5
terrorist watch lists
So that's why San Francisco has put NRA on a terrorist list,
So law biding citizens can not buy guns in their city!
Stephen Paddock was a law biding [sic] citizen........ until he wasn't. Here welts to bring you up to speed. Happyhoix said. There's been legislation proposed that would increase the background check to include cross checking domestic abuse arrests, terrorist watch lists and other lists of potentially violent/mentally imbalanced people - and to require them when purchasing ANY weapon, not just guns purchased in stores. Sounds like common sense, right? McConnell didn't think so - he's been killing any proposed background check improvement laws that hit his desk. San Francisco, has declared the NRA a Domestic Terrorist Organization, So that was my lead, Because a law biding NRA member can not buy a gun in San Francisco.
That was my snarky post!! Nothing to do with Stephen Paddock. now that he was brought up,, what laws would have stopped him?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2019 0:53:46 GMT -5
I'm perfectly up to speed, thank you very much. Law "biding" citizens are just that......until they're not.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2019 1:05:38 GMT -5
What could have stopped him? How about laws like this? AR-15 can be purchased in Canada but here’s why you don’t see them used in crimes Noah says the difference between Canada and the U.S. is not the availability of the weapon itself, but the training and screening process that precedes a purchase. In Orlando, “this guy obtained his guns legally. He passed two background checks in a two-day period to buy these,” Noah says. Canada has a much more arduous firearms safety training and permitting process. The screening overseen by the RCMP is completed manually and includes interviews with at least two people whose names are provided by the applicant and can include others, such as former conjugal partners or local law enforcement. “It is not a matter of pressing a button on a computer,” he says. In the U.S., the screening is automated and “it’s terrible.” ca.news.yahoo.com/ar-15-can-be-purchased-in-canada-but-heres-why-203816624.html
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Sept 7, 2019 5:11:03 GMT -5
So because murder 1 doesn't deter anyone, we should just not make any changes? Are you out of your mind? And I'd like to be clear. I support more thorough background checks for all guns, and banning assault rifles entirely. John Q Public doesn't need an additional rifle for home defense or hunting. Banning assault rifles will mean next to nothing, by far more people are done in with a pistol, not a rifle certainly not an assault rifle. None of these guns fire by themselves!
That's pathetic. Truly. And it doesn't negate the fact that non military people do.not.need an assault weapon.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 7, 2019 6:55:48 GMT -5
Ok we are doing private gun sales, background checks on them,
Remember where as an experiment, I went out looking for a gun to buy, just causally asking strangers if they knew anyone that had a gun for sale,
it took me 42 minutes. So what law are you going to pass that stops, someone that has failed all background checks, goes out and does the same thing I did?? So ,, we are going to pass a law that is so severe to make sure they don't buy guns like that?? Like a law stronger than say,,, murder one?? that a pretty strong law,, it does not stop people from killing each other,, Let's pass a bunch of laws that only effect the law biding citizen,, there you go ,, you have accomplished nothing,,
So when those don't work,, let's pass more that don't work?? Oh by the way the rifle I bought came with a cleaning kit, ammo, a red dot optics sight, and a case. which leads me to believe the gun was not stolen,, the thief would have only gabbed the gun, in their hast to get out, before they were caught! Harsh penalties have had a huge impact on drunk driving. People still do it, but not nearly as much as they did. If we can get regular law abiding citizens to not want to risk an "off the books" gun sale, we will reduce those kinds of sales. I don't know if you found a regular guy who wanted to do a private sale, which is legal, so 42 minutes isn't shocking. It might have taken you longer if private sales had more restrictions. regular law abiding citizens, ok so they don't sell, that only means the the future gun buyer . moves to the next one that is not a law biding citizen!
Druggies, burglars, or the hopped kid that stole Gram pa's gun collection. there are a lot of them!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 7, 2019 7:04:18 GMT -5
Any of you remember where I posted that my then employee's little brother and cousin had got caught, with two older teens in a stolen pickup, with a bunch of guns and eight thousand $$$$ in cash! Yea this is the same cousin, that him and a another 15 yo friend were holding the convenience stores, got caught, because his mom driving the getaway car ran out of gas in the parking lot!!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 7, 2019 10:25:26 GMT -5
Any of you remember where I posted that my then employee's little brother and cousin had got caught, with two older teens in a stolen pickup, with a bunch of guns and eight thousand $$$$ in cash! Yea this is the same cousin, that him and a another 15 yo friend were holding the convenience stores, got caught, because his mom driving the getaway car ran out of gas in the parking lot!! Congrats. You know a criminal. Not a great reason to oppose all laws.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2019 12:19:23 GMT -5
Any of you remember where I posted that my then employee's little brother and cousin had got caught, with two older teens in a stolen pickup, with a bunch of guns and eight thousand $$$$ in cash! Yea this is the same cousin, that him and a another 15 yo friend were holding the convenience stores, got caught, because his mom driving the getaway car ran out of gas in the parking lot!! Congrats. You know a criminal. Not a great reason to oppose all laws. He admitted to BEING a criminal, breaking laws all the time, but not getting caught. He also knows criminals. I think we're supposed to be impressed.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 7, 2019 20:54:25 GMT -5
Any of you remember where I posted that my then employee's little brother and cousin had got caught, with two older teens in a stolen pickup, with a bunch of guns and eight thousand $$$$ in cash! Yea this is the same cousin, that him and a another 15 yo friend were holding the convenience stores, got caught, because his mom driving the getaway car ran out of gas in the parking lot!! Congrats. You know a criminal. Not a great reason to oppose all laws. Fortunately, I realize that criminals don't follow to law. Unfortunately, we have some that think if we put up a sign, every one is going to obey that sign. It's like the law against using your cell phone while driving,, Want to guess how well that is working,,
Annnd there is the potential of kill some one while doing,, Some did die, that why we have the law,, except, most don't obey it!!
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Sept 7, 2019 23:02:15 GMT -5
Please inform us on the last mass killing of 10 or more or one at a school was done by hand gun alone. There might have been 1. Virginia Tech. Good job OC. My ‘might have been 1’ led you right to VT 12 years ago. Your excellent sleuthing didn’t prove anything but must have been gleeful for you. How about knives next? Anything that shows it wasn’t assault rifles is some of the gleeful nothing burger of all time.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 7, 2019 23:06:57 GMT -5
Glad to see you think V.T. was nothing!
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