schildi
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Post by schildi on Aug 22, 2019 10:58:43 GMT -5
Hi All! Wondering if I can get some feedback here, as I am not 100% sure we are planning to do the right thing. Our older son is 16 years old, turning 17 in December. He has the learners permit since his 15th bday, so for almost 2 years. He has accumulated a little more than 80 hours driving both my F-150 and the wife's 2016 Subaru Outback. Now, in fall, he will take the state driving class, and is planning to get his real driver's license right after that, probably in December right around when he turns 17. Now here the dilemma starts. He (of course) wants a car, a few of his friends already drive and have their own vehicles. He is saving money, targeting to buy a used car in the $3K - $4K price range. I personally don't like old cars with tons of miles on them, and my fear is that I will be stuck with taking care of and paying for costly repairs. Not even speaking of the used car shopping experience, which I fear almost more. The idea: sell him the wife's 2016 Subaru with ~70k miles for $4,000, and order a new Subaru for the wife. She racks up quite a few miles with the Subaru, because we live out in the country. :-) So in terms of the miles, a new car for her would maybe make sense (a little) in that regard, since I suspect my DS would not drive nearly as much. The Subaru would be right around 4 years old when he would get it. The other advantage would be no or few repairs (the Subaru is meticulously maintained, I do all of it myself; and it's been driven very conservatively), and it would be a very safe vehicle for our DS (the wife likes that part of it the most). We special ordered the Subaru in early 2016 with all of the safety features available: eye sight, lane change assist, blind spot warning, camera, etc, etc, etc). The Subaru is a 2.5 Premium with the base engine, so not a race car either, and it gets great fuel mileage (we average 30mpg). Another advantage. Fairly inexpensive to insure also. We own the Subaru free and clear, not sure if that matters in the decision making. The obvious disadvantage of this plan: We would be taking a bit of a loss in that deal. We would be selling him a car that's worth $14 - $16K (trade-in ---- private party) for $4K, and we most likely would have to do something similar again 3-4 years down the road for DS's little brother. We normally buy new cars and drive them for 10 - 12 years, this would obviously be a bit of a change and cost us quite some money, especially doing it twice. Financially, overall, we can afford it though, I am sure. So my question: What's your opinion on this plan? Crazy? Ok? Great? Any feedback and suggestions are much appreciated!
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Aug 22, 2019 11:01:27 GMT -5
BTW, he is a great student,planning on going to college soon. He's a straight A student most of the semesters (GPA = 4.0), and he is taking additional online college math classes during summer break right now, which is limiting his time to earn more money ---- but we prefer him getting ready for college over earning a few bucks extra to add to the car.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Aug 22, 2019 11:11:47 GMT -5
When DS started driving we had him in a ~2 year old Scion XB, Then DH got him a used Camry, and now he is driving my old 2012 CRV. When DD started driving DS thought a new car was a much better deal than a used Toyota or Honda that needed maintenance, so we bought her a Hyundai Eleantra. That car was totaled in an accident about 2 years ago, so we bought her a new Subaru Legacy with eyesight. I really like her car, so even though I have been driving a small SUV for about 7 years, when I get around to buying myself a new car, I will consider the legacy along with the CRV, Rav4, Forester and Outback.
I drive on the freeway a lot, and would really like the blindspot warning system that many cars now have available. I will have it on my next car.
I am on board with your plan, but why transfer title to DS vs. keeping it in your name until he graduates from college?
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Aug 22, 2019 11:13:54 GMT -5
I like your plan. It makes sense. Better for all of you in the long run for him to drive a car everyone is familiar with. The peace of mind it gives you to have him driving the Subaru is worth the loss in my opinion.
We let our son drive our oldest vehicle when he turned 16. We let him take that vehicle to college. He drove another vehicle of ours when he went to work. Finally, in 2017, he got his own car.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 11:24:53 GMT -5
Well, there's no way I'd have got my teen a 16K car, seeing as I drive a 5K one. But, I think for you guys it makes sense. Have you talked to your insurance agent to be prepared for that shock once he gets his license? In our state you can rate them on a single car, so he's rated on his 97 Camry only. Other states require the teens be rated on all vehicles in the household.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Aug 22, 2019 11:47:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the responses, looks like we are not totally off track here. Yes, I looked at the insurance cost. It's mind boggling. Even with all the available discounts, it will be ~ $150 extra per month!
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Aug 22, 2019 11:50:58 GMT -5
I am on board with your plan, but why transfer title to DS vs. keeping it in your name until he graduates from college? This is something I still need to figure out. Not sure how to do this. If I take his $4K, then I am assuming it to be his car, no matter who's on the title. It would seem unfair to rent the car to him, if you know what I mean. Maybe we just keep the title as-is, and transfer it later, if that makes financial sense. Need to figure out these details as we go .... any input on that appreciated as well.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Aug 22, 2019 11:53:53 GMT -5
Welp, people say kids are expensive so this plan seems to go with the territory! :-)
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Aug 22, 2019 12:01:17 GMT -5
""We special ordered the Subaru in early 2016 with all of the safety features available: eye sight, lane change assist, blind spot warning, camera, etc, etc, etc).""" Be careful to teach DS the principles of defensive driving (as opposed to letting him depend on the lane-changer, etc). He may drive something some day that doesn't have the features that he becomes accustomed to. IMO, 4-year-old cars are just about right for starter-cars. Our kids both started that way. And you won't feel so bad when the first fender-bender happens (it will, lol).
One thing that you may notice - 25 years ago kids were standing in line on their 16th birthday to take the test and get the license. Now they aren't that interested. In Arizona, kids were failing the written test, the State was starting to wonder if the test was to hard for today's kids. But the decision was 'they need to know this stuff to drive - so learn it".
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pooks
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Post by pooks on Aug 22, 2019 12:11:28 GMT -5
I like Subarus for first cars. Plan sounds good. I would think about younger DS when you buy your wife's new car, since that car will most likely go to him. It is a pretty sweet deal for the kids. My newest car is 8 years old and DD's car is 11. I don't think I could handle the insurance of having her in something new.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 22, 2019 12:27:53 GMT -5
If you do this, are you going to request your son pay the insurance difference? He is getting a hell of a deal.....he needs some more skin in the game IMO.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 22, 2019 12:36:55 GMT -5
If you can afford it by all means. My first car was a 1980's boat on wheels that was almost as old as I was. I feel like the majority of high school drivers got into at least a fender bender and that was in the late 90's before everyone had cell phones which increased the distraction factor. My mom paid insurance and my grandfather liked to help with some repairs/maintenance but beyond that money from my job kept the car gassed up and running. I plan to do the same for my kids some day and envision getting them a used car that is known for going for years when properly maintained, i.e. honda, toyota, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 13:00:00 GMT -5
One thing that you may notice - 25 years ago kids were standing in line on their 16th birthday to take the test and get the license. Now they aren't that interested. In Arizona, kids were failing the written test, the State was starting to wonder if the test was to hard for today's kids. But the decision was 'they need to know this stuff to drive - so learn it". I had to force my son to get his license. He had no interest at all. These days they don't have to go to their friends house to hang out, they just communicate online. He's had his license and his own car for about a year now and still does not do any driving just for fun ever. It's to get to school functions or to go to work. I remember driving all over all the time. Sometimes taking 50 mile detours on my way home from work at 11:30 at night when I was a teen just because.
I also couldn't get him excited about being at a concert with big name performers. I'm like WTH? When I was 17 concerts were a huge deal. Not anymore apparently.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 22, 2019 13:42:13 GMT -5
...
I am on board with your plan, but why transfer title to DS vs. keeping it in your name until he graduates from college? ^^^ That is what we did for both of our sons with the warning that if they even got one ticket for DWI or anything of the kind I would be on the next plane out and sell the car out from under them! I would have done it too and they knew it!
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 22, 2019 13:55:44 GMT -5
One thing that you may notice - 25 years ago kids were standing in line on their 16th birthday to take the test and get the license. Now they aren't that interested. In Arizona, kids were failing the written test, the State was starting to wonder if the test was to hard for today's kids. But the decision was 'they need to know this stuff to drive - so learn it". I had to force my son to get his license. He had no interest at all. These days they don't have to go to their friends house to hang out, they just communicate online. He's had his license and his own car for about a year now and still does not do any driving just for fun ever. It's to get to school functions or to go to work. I remember driving all over all the time. Sometimes taking 50 mile detours on my way home from work at 11:30 at night when I was a teen just because. I've got a family friend and a co-worker who both have sons like this. It surprises me because when I was old enough to get my license that's all anyone wanted. The first person that got his license got a call within a week from a kid we went to middle school with asking if he wanted to go to get something eat. It doesn't surprise me because as you mentioned how people communicate these days. If someone works from home they can get by without a car or ever leaving the house. You can have groceries delivered, all of the food delivery services pick up from any restaurant then deliver, amazon and the like will deliver anything else you need and the list goes on. Even without a car depending where you live you've got uber, lyft, etc for those times you do need transportation. I told my co-worker that eventually dating or interest in someone would motivate her son to get his license and do more out of the house. She isn't convinced and maybe even dating has changed to the point it's not a big deal but we sure wanted to drive ourselves instead of having mom drop us off for a date. The family friend moved her son out for college as a way to get him to spread his wings so to speak. He's at a local school and can drive home if he wants while she was afraid if they didn't do this he would just continue to sit at home and expect her to drive him around and she told him that wasn't going to be the case.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2019 14:07:45 GMT -5
""We special ordered the Subaru in early 2016 with all of the safety features available: eye sight, lane change assist, blind spot warning, camera, etc, etc, etc).""" Be careful to teach DS the principles of defensive driving (as opposed to letting him depend on the lane-changer, etc). He may drive something some day that doesn't have the features that he becomes accustomed to. IMO, 4-year-old cars are just about right for starter-cars. Our kids both started that way. And you won't feel so bad when the first fender-bender happens (it will, lol).
One thing that you may notice - 25 years ago kids were standing in line on their 16th birthday to take the test and get the license. Now they aren't that interested. In Arizona, kids were failing the written test, the State was starting to wonder if the test was to hard for today's kids. But the decision was 'they need to know this stuff to drive - so learn it".
I think we protect our kids so much they are afraid to drive. OP, If you can afford it, I think it's a great idea.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Aug 22, 2019 14:56:40 GMT -5
""We special ordered the Subaru in early 2016 with all of the safety features available: eye sight, lane change assist, blind spot warning, camera, etc, etc, etc).""" Be careful to teach DS the principles of defensive driving (as opposed to letting him depend on the lane-changer, etc). He may drive something some day that doesn't have the features that he becomes accustomed to. IMO, 4-year-old cars are just about right for starter-cars. Our kids both started that way. And you won't feel so bad when the first fender-bender happens (it will, lol).
One thing that you may notice - 25 years ago kids were standing in line on their 16th birthday to take the test and get the license. Now they aren't that interested. In Arizona, kids were failing the written test, the State was starting to wonder if the test was to hard for today's kids. But the decision was 'they need to know this stuff to drive - so learn it".
I noticed the exact same. When I was that age, I was counting the days and couldn't sleep the night before I picked up my license. Times change.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Aug 22, 2019 14:58:40 GMT -5
I like Subarus for first cars. Plan sounds good. I would think about younger DS when you buy your wife's new car, since that car will most likely go to him. It is a pretty sweet deal for the kids. My newest car is 8 years old and DD's car is 11. I don't think I could handle the insurance of having her in something new. Yes, doing exactly that. I would special factory order the new one again, with exactly the extras we want and need. It would be another base engine premium with all the safety features available.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Aug 22, 2019 15:00:24 GMT -5
If you do this, are you going to request your son pay the insurance difference? He is getting a hell of a deal.....he needs some more skin in the game IMO. That would be a lot of money, don't think he could afford that right now. But I agree, he needs *some* skin in the game. Need to come up with something maybe, beyond the $4K.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 22, 2019 15:02:02 GMT -5
What's the plan for the car if he goes to a college where it's not a good idea to own a car? Will you have 3-4 cars at home until everyone is settled down? The college I work at doesn't have enough parking for the employees, let alone 40K students. 20 years ago, when I was a student, there was a huge parking lot specifically for students only...that one could take a 20 minute shuttle to. That's gone now.
While I know dorm living is expensive, it is something I would insist upon freshman year..just for ease of making friends and getting the hang of college... So. You are either looking at renting a parking space from a rental or buying a city permit to park on the street. Neither option is close to living arrangements. My roommate my sophomore year (again, in the dorms) had a car and did street parking by permit. Within the first month of school, someone hit her car and she needed to replace one of the side mirrors. The trend now, on my campus, is to not leave any information when you hit someone. Buying a street parking permit is cheaper than renting a parking space. Around here, renting a parking space goes for $75-$100 a month. There are city parking ramps on campus, but depending on scheduling, that could run you $200/month. I think it's a good plan, but I would just wait until life is sorted out. Your kids could take advantages of opportunities where it doesn't make sense to own a car...like studying abroad for a semester. My husband's parents gave them paid off cars as a college graduation gift.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 22, 2019 15:09:50 GMT -5
""We special ordered the Subaru in early 2016 with all of the safety features available: eye sight, lane change assist, blind spot warning, camera, etc, etc, etc).""" Be careful to teach DS the principles of defensive driving (as opposed to letting him depend on the lane-changer, etc). He may drive something some day that doesn't have the features that he becomes accustomed to. IMO, 4-year-old cars are just about right for starter-cars. Our kids both started that way. And you won't feel so bad when the first fender-bender happens (it will, lol).
One thing that you may notice - 25 years ago kids were standing in line on their 16th birthday to take the test and get the license. Now they aren't that interested. In Arizona, kids were failing the written test, the State was starting to wonder if the test was to hard for today's kids. But the decision was 'they need to know this stuff to drive - so learn it".
I think we protect our kids so much they are afraid to drive. OP, If you can afford it, I think it's a great idea. I don’t about the afraid or is it there is really no reason for it. My brother is 17 and we all thought there was something wrong f with him; but then my sister turned 16 in june and similar to him: no interest in getting their licenses. My stepdad want both of them to get it because that would be less driving for him and my mom and 2) he feels as a black man he would be safer at night coming home from basketball practice or friends house in his own car vs walking / taking Uber. But I think in northern NJ they just don’t see the need for it: - Uber and Uber eats - constant contact with their friends on their iPhones - between school and basketball practice , my stepdad is basically his chauffeur so does not see the need. - my baby sister is the princess and the baby so basically get everyone to drive her wherever she wants, whenever she wants and she has Uber also. They are both great students and good kids; so my mom and stepdad stopped forcing it (even offered to pay for driving courses for both / no interests) and figure since they do the majority of the driving them around (mostly stepdad since he is retired); they can keep tab on them this way. But hey my sister got herself from NJ to FL without my parents knowing till she got there (went to my cousin in FL) so she is not Totally clueless and incapable... just does not feel the need.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Aug 22, 2019 15:12:39 GMT -5
Giramomma, if he doesn't need a car when he goes to college, we may be able to do some arrangements with his brother taking the car. The financial aspect of that would have to be figured out, but I think that would be doable. Since we are living out in the country, him having his own transportation will be a relief and time savings for us as well.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 15:24:56 GMT -5
Since we are living out in the country, him having his own transportation will be a relief and time savings for us as well. Amen to that. I'm in the country as well and the time savings has been huge. Besides taking himself to school things I'd normally have to make a 40 minute trip for, he also helps with taking his brother to things and runs errands for me. I've easily reclaimed several hours a week minimum.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 22, 2019 15:30:17 GMT -5
He's not asking for a discounted car. He is saving money to buy his own car and parents want to gift him a more expensive vehicle for their own peace of mind. I don't think I'd make him pony up more to receive a gift he didn't ask for. If the agreement was that he'd be paying for his own insurance all along, then help him price out the difference between the $4k car and the parents car and make sure he really wants that more expensive option.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on Aug 22, 2019 15:48:07 GMT -5
Good point raeoflyte. He does love driving the Subaru, I am sure he'll be happy to call it his own. But he has never asked for anything remotely like this, and he wouldn't. It's our decision, you are 100% correct.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 15:57:23 GMT -5
I pay my son's insurance. I basically forced him to get his driver's license and it was as much for my benefit as it was his. I also fill his tank once a month. Any more is on him. I kind of go by the "if it's something I want him to have" I pay for it. Cell phone is another thing in there. My parents paid my insurance until I moved out at like 23, so I expect I'll probably do the same as long as I'm able to. I mean, if he gets a bunch of tickets and his rates shoot up, you can bet I will reevaluate.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Aug 22, 2019 19:02:42 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it, but does he have a job? Does he earn his own spending money? Mine earned their spending money, including buying their own gas.
Since you can afford it, I don't see anything wrong with providing the car. I would keep the car in your name, though. There may come a time when you don't want him driving. I have good kids, but there were a few times when I had to "ground them" from driving the cars. I can't think of any benefit to you to putting the car in the kid's name.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Aug 22, 2019 20:08:27 GMT -5
I get wanting him to have skin in the game, but by selling it to him for $4k you kinda take away the option of possibly using it for ds2. What if you stipulate that in return for use of the car, he has to keep that $4k in the bank since it was planned for car unless he clears it with you first to pay for college or something else you approve. This way it's so much easier to take it away if he starts to get in trouble. And if he doesn't need it to begin college, you can pass it down to ds2. This way you save yourself from maybe buying car #4.
For insurance, my parents always paid as long as I kept good student discount which also meant better grades for scholarship. Win, win.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 22, 2019 21:24:10 GMT -5
You could keep the car in your name and let him drive it. He can use his $4000 on insurance, gas, oil changes and repairs.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 23, 2019 5:59:12 GMT -5
I did something similar with my son, although I just bought a new car and gave him the “old” one. However, I was a bad parent since I didn’t charge him anything for it.
He’s now graduated from college six years later, and he still has the car. I prefer to give them something safe instead of “cheap”.
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