djAdvocate
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1971
Aug 24, 2019 15:28:34 GMT -5
Post by djAdvocate on Aug 24, 2019 15:28:34 GMT -5
71 was a good year then. it might have been the best year in US history, but i would place it closer to 1973.
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Miss Tequila
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Aug 24, 2019 16:17:41 GMT -5
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 24, 2019 16:17:41 GMT -5
Not every man that went to Viet Nam was drafted. My dad volunteered to go, he wasn't drafted. No. But every women that went volunteered so they had a choice. Men didn’t have that choice if they were drafted. Do you not think that was a privilege for women?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 24, 2019 17:38:16 GMT -5
Not every man that went to Viet Nam was drafted. My dad volunteered to go, he wasn't drafted. No. But every women that went volunteered so they had a choice. Men didn’t have that choice if they were drafted. Do you not think that was a privilege for women? Sure they did. They could go to Canada. 50,000 of them did just that.
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weltschmerz
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1971
Aug 24, 2019 17:43:14 GMT -5
Post by weltschmerz on Aug 24, 2019 17:43:14 GMT -5
In all, about 100,000 Americans went abroad in the late 1960s and early '70s to avoid being called up. Some 90 percent went to Canada where, after some initial controversy, they were accepted as legal immigrants. Thousands went into hiding at home, sometimes changing their identities. In addition, about 1,000 military deserters found their way to Canada. While Canadian authorities at first indicated they would be prosecuted or deported, in practice they were left alone. Canadian border guards were told not to ask too many questions. www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/president-carter-pardons-draft-dodgers-jan-21-1977-346493
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 24, 2019 17:48:43 GMT -5
a You might want to look up a gal named Sharon Lane. There were plenty of females serving in Viet Nam and their lives were also at risk. Sharon happened to be the only one of those 11K women who paid the ultimate price; however, serving in a field hospital was no picnic. It was female nurse privilege and was so considered by many. 2.2 million men were drafted during Vietnam but women were excluded from the draft. The fact that women had a choice not to go to war but men didn’t does show privilege. If we want true equality we need to admit where women benefited as well. Since there is no draft these days we're equal at this time. I was speaking to the dying issue, not the drafting issue.
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Miss Tequila
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1971
Aug 24, 2019 18:07:19 GMT -5
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 24, 2019 18:07:19 GMT -5
a 2.2 million men were drafted during Vietnam but women were excluded from the draft. The fact that women had a choice not to go to war but men didn’t does show privilege. If we want true equality we need to admit where women benefited as well. Since there is no draft these days we're equal at this time. I was speaking to the dying issue, not the drafting issue. Except this thread was about inequality towards women in 1971. There was also inequality towards men
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Miss Tequila
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1971
Aug 24, 2019 18:08:43 GMT -5
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 24, 2019 18:08:43 GMT -5
No. But every women that went volunteered so they had a choice. Men didn’t have that choice if they were drafted. Do you not think that was a privilege for women? Sure they did. They could go to Canada. 50,000 of them did just that. 50,000 out of 2.2 million drafted. Did women have to flee their country to avoid the draft? I love how you can’t acknowledge that women benefited from inequality in this case
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laterbloomer
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Aug 24, 2019 19:28:02 GMT -5
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 24, 2019 19:28:02 GMT -5
It is a priviledge. The reality is women barely have the right to die for your country (and many are raped while serving) and the gays are banned from doing it. The patriarchy is afraid of giving women and gays guns and training them to kill their enemies. 58220 total deaths for Vietnam war, It is a priviledge.
Wonder how many that died, considered it a privilege?
I've heard a lot of enlisted men say it's an honor to serve and it would be an honor to die for their country. Are you calling them liars?
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laterbloomer
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1971
Aug 24, 2019 19:34:02 GMT -5
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 24, 2019 19:34:02 GMT -5
Sure they did. They could go to Canada. 50,000 of them did just that. 50,000 out of 2.2 million drafted. Did women have to flee their country to avoid the draft? I love how you can’t acknowledge that women benefited from inequality in this case The priviledge lies in being given a career opportunity, being given guns and being trained to defend themselves. Let too many women get that empowered and you run the risk of changing the status quo.
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OldCoyote
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1971
Aug 24, 2019 21:36:19 GMT -5
Post by OldCoyote on Aug 24, 2019 21:36:19 GMT -5
58220 total deaths for Vietnam war, It is a priviledge.
Wonder how many that died, considered it a privilege?
I've heard a lot of enlisted men say it's an honor to serve and it would be an honor to die for their country. Are you calling them liars? We are talking about being drafted, force to go to Vietnam against many of their wishes,, A whole lot of people were dead set against that war, many of them ended up in Canada.
Are you calling them liars?
Since you seem to want to turn this into a pissing contest, and now have my attention,
How about I start with some of the stories of people that I knew that were shot or mangled over there, One of the men I went to high school with, Jumped on a grenade, He survived the explosion lost both legs one arm, critical internal injuries, that he suffered from for the rest of his short life. You need more of the details??
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weltschmerz
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1971
Aug 24, 2019 21:43:14 GMT -5
Post by weltschmerz on Aug 24, 2019 21:43:14 GMT -5
Sure they did. They could go to Canada. 50,000 of them did just that. 50,000 out of 2.2 million drafted. Did women have to flee their country to avoid the draft? I love how you can’t acknowledge that women benefited from inequality in this case You claimed men had no choice. I showed you that they DID have a choice. Fight and die in a pointless war or go to Canada. I love how you can't acknowledge that they did indeed have a choice.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 24, 2019 21:55:43 GMT -5
Good grief. "Debit cards" weren't even a thing in the early 70's. The point isn't about what happens TODAY, it's how long it took to get to TODAY.
I first married in 1963. My dr did not prescribe BC pills to unmarried women. After I was married I was able to get birth control. In 1966 I applied for my first job. I was told “You’ll have to take a ohysical, including a oregnancy test. We won’t hire you if you are pregnant” 1969, my husband hit me breaking my jaw. I left him, filed for divorce and tried to press charges. Nothing was ever done. He knew he could hit me without repercussions -male privilege Same year, after filing for divorce all our credit cards were cancelled and I was turned down for a card in my name -even though I had been working full time and had a history of paying my bills on time. It took me years to have my own credit card. I’ve never filed for bankruptcy or been late paying my bills. Steph is SO right - it’s taken a lifetime to get to where we are today. So many things young women take for granted.
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steff
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1971
Aug 24, 2019 22:14:10 GMT -5
Post by steff on Aug 24, 2019 22:14:10 GMT -5
Good grief. "Debit cards" weren't even a thing in the early 70's. The point isn't about what happens TODAY, it's how long it took to get to TODAY.
I first married in 1963. My dr did not prescribe BC pills to unmarried women. After I was married I was able to get birth control. In 1966 I applied for my first job. I was told “You’ll have to take a ohysical, including a oregnancy test. We won’t hire you if you are pregnant” 1969, my husband hit me breaking my jaw. I left him, filed for divorce and tried to press charges. Nothing was ever done. He knew he could hit me without repercussions -male privilege Same year, after filing for divorce all our credit cards were cancelled and I was turned down for a card in my name -even though I had been working full time and had a history of paying my bills on time. It took me years to have my own credit card. I’ve never filed for bankruptcy or been late paying my bills. Steph is SO right - it’s taken a lifetime to get to where we are today. So many things young women take for granted. In 1984 calling the cops for domestic violence while also letting the police know that there were guns in the house meant that they showed up long enough for my mom to leave. Without her children. She couldn't take the children if their father was in the home, even tho he was the one being physically violent.
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Miss Tequila
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1971
Aug 25, 2019 7:43:31 GMT -5
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 25, 2019 7:43:31 GMT -5
50,000 out of 2.2 million drafted. Did women have to flee their country to avoid the draft? I love how you can’t acknowledge that women benefited from inequality in this case You claimed men had no choice. I showed you that they DID have a choice. Fight and die in a pointless war or go to Canada. I love how you can't acknowledge that they did indeed have a choice. Their only choice was to flee their country and commit a crime. Women did not have to flee their country to void going to Vietnam. They just had to not volunteer. Talking to you is like talking to the wall.
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Miss Tequila
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1971
Aug 25, 2019 7:47:57 GMT -5
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 25, 2019 7:47:57 GMT -5
58220 total deaths for Vietnam war, It is a priviledge.
Wonder how many that died, considered it a privilege?
I've heard a lot of enlisted men say it's an honor to serve and it would be an honor to die for their country. Are you calling them liars? The difference is choice. The same thing that females want, men didn’t have during the draft (unless you are going to be welt. And hang your hat on them illegally fleeing their country as choice). A man who did not want to go to war could have still been drafted and forced to go. A woman who didn’t want to go to war never had to worry. You seriously can’t believe that a man being forced to go To war while a woman could stay home was male privilege.
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NoNamePerson
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1971
Aug 25, 2019 8:01:57 GMT -5
Post by NoNamePerson on Aug 25, 2019 8:01:57 GMT -5
Glad my best friends sister worked for a Dr. He gave me my birth control pills in 1963 (single and unmarried).
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laterbloomer
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1971
Aug 25, 2019 8:27:44 GMT -5
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 25, 2019 8:27:44 GMT -5
I've heard a lot of enlisted men say it's an honor to serve and it would be an honor to die for their country. Are you calling them liars? We are talking about being drafted, force to go to Vietnam against many of their wishes,, A whole lot of people were dead set against that war, many of them ended up in Canada.
Are you calling them liars?
Since you seem to want to turn this into a pissing contest, and now have my attention,
How about I start with some of the stories of people that I knew that were shot or mangled over there, One of the men I went to high school with, Jumped on a grenade, He survived the explosion lost both legs one arm, critical internal injuries, that he suffered from for the rest of his short life. You need more of the details??
Lol ya no, you are the one that has been making it a pissing contest. You're just pissy because someone is challenging you on it. You really should be ashamed of yourself exploiting injured vets this way.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 25, 2019 8:36:19 GMT -5
I've heard a lot of enlisted men say it's an honor to serve and it would be an honor to die for their country. Are you calling them liars? The difference is choice. The same thing that females want, men didn’t have during the draft (unless you are going to be welt. And hang your hat on them illegally fleeing their country as choice). A man who did not want to go to war could have still been drafted and forced to go. A woman who didn’t want to go to war never had to worry. You seriously can’t believe that a man being forced to go To war while a woman could stay home was male privilege. Woman HAD to stay home. It is a significant difference. And they had lots to worry about while they were home. I refer you to steff's story. It isn't unique. And not all men had to go. Men with bone spurs got to stay home.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 25, 2019 8:50:55 GMT -5
Good grief. "Debit cards" weren't even a thing in the early 70's. The point isn't about what happens TODAY, it's how long it took to get to TODAY.
I first married in 1963. My dr did not prescribe BC pills to unmarried women. After I was married I was able to get birth control. In 1966 I applied for my first job. I was told “You’ll have to take a ohysical, including a oregnancy test. We won’t hire you if you are pregnant”1969, my husband hit me breaking my jaw. I left him, filed for divorce and tried to press charges. Nothing was ever done. He knew he could hit me without repercussions -male privilege Same year, after filing for divorce all our credit cards were cancelled and I was turned down for a card in my name -even though I had been working full time and had a history of paying my bills on time. It took me years to have my own credit card. I’ve never filed for bankruptcy or been late paying my bills. Steph is SO right - it’s taken a lifetime to get to where we are today. So many things young women take for granted. Reminds me of someone who states she won't hire pregnant women either. They take time off to have families.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 25, 2019 10:55:11 GMT -5
I've heard a lot of enlisted men say it's an honor to serve and it would be an honor to die for their country. Are you calling them liars? The difference is choice. The same thing that females want, men didn’t have during the draft (unless you are going to be welt. And hang your hat on them illegally fleeing their country as choice). A man who did not want to go to war could have still been drafted and forced to go. A woman who didn’t want to go to war never had to worry. You seriously can’t believe that a man being forced to go To war while a woman could stay home was male privilege. Not every man.... Those who did not have wealthy, influential families who could obtain dr reports claiming minor issues (like bone sours) -
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Miss Tequila
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1971
Aug 25, 2019 14:01:09 GMT -5
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 25, 2019 14:01:09 GMT -5
The difference is choice. The same thing that females want, men didn’t have during the draft (unless you are going to be welt. And hang your hat on them illegally fleeing their country as choice). A man who did not want to go to war could have still been drafted and forced to go. A woman who didn’t want to go to war never had to worry. You seriously can’t believe that a man being forced to go To war while a woman could stay home was male privilege. Not every man.... Those who did not have wealthy, influential families who could obtain dr reports claiming minor issues (like bone sours) - I get it. None of the feminists on here can admit that most men got screwed when it came to getting drafted in the Vietnam war while women were safe from the draft. When your hatred of men is so deep that you can’t even admit when they were negatively impacted by sexism...got it
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 25, 2019 14:45:05 GMT -5
Not every man.... Those who did not have wealthy, influential families who could obtain dr reports claiming minor issues (like bone sours) - I get it. None of the feminists on here can admit that most men got screwed when it came to getting drafted in the Vietnam war while women were safe from the draft. When your hatred of men is so deep that you can’t even admit when they were negatively impacted by sexism...got it most men got screwed when it came to being drafted.
but the all male draft is fatally patriarchal.
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steff
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Post by steff on Aug 25, 2019 14:48:05 GMT -5
Well gee, why don't we turn a discussion about women into one about poor poor mistreated men.
GMAFB
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Gardening Grandma
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1971
Aug 25, 2019 16:47:25 GMT -5
Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 25, 2019 16:47:25 GMT -5
Not every man.... Those who did not have wealthy, influential families who could obtain dr reports claiming minor issues (like bone sours) - I get it. None of the feminists on here can admit that most men got screwed when it came to getting drafted in the Vietnam war while women were safe from the draft. When your hatred of men is so deep that you can’t even admit when they were negatively impacted by sexism...got it My 'hatred of men" My husband and sons would get a chuckle out of that one... Project much? My husband had a low draft number (meaning a very high probability of getting drafted. I don't need a lecture from someone who was in diapers at the time and obviously clueless.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 25, 2019 16:50:29 GMT -5
I get it. None of the feminists on here can admit that most men got screwed when it came to getting drafted in the Vietnam war while women were safe from the draft. When your hatred of men is so deep that you can’t even admit when they were negatively impacted by sexism...got it most men got screwed when it came to being drafted.
but the all male draft is fatally patriarchal.
Absoltuely true, dj.... And I believe the draft will never be revived. An all male draft would never fly these days (and it shouldn't) and the thought of drafting women would be anathema to too many people. Those were different times.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 25, 2019 18:36:24 GMT -5
Not every man.... Those who did not have wealthy, influential families who could obtain dr reports claiming minor issues (like bone sours) - I get it. None of the feminists on here can admit that most men got screwed when it came to getting drafted in the Vietnam war while women were safe from the draft. When your hatred of men is so deep that you can’t even admit when they were negatively impacted by sexism...got it Actually it strikes me that your internalised misogyny makes you incapable of allowing discussion of sexism against women to take place. You don't even acknowledge it when it happens to you.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 25, 2019 18:46:02 GMT -5
Not every man.... Those who did not have wealthy, influential families who could obtain dr reports claiming minor issues (like bone sours) - I get it. None of the feminists on here can admit that most men got screwed when it came to getting drafted in the Vietnam war while women were safe from the draft. When your hatred of men is so deep that you can’t even admit when they were negatively impacted by sexism...got it That was half a century ago, but people like you are STILL screwing women over by not wanting to hire females who will get pregnant or offering paid maternity leave.
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Miss Tequila
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1971
Aug 26, 2019 12:12:54 GMT -5
Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 26, 2019 12:12:54 GMT -5
I get it. None of the feminists on here can admit that most men got screwed when it came to getting drafted in the Vietnam war while women were safe from the draft. When your hatred of men is so deep that you can’t even admit when they were negatively impacted by sexism...got it My 'hatred of men" My husband and sons would get a chuckle out of that one... Project much?My husband had a low draft number (meaning a very high probability of getting drafted. I don't need a lecture from someone who was in diapers at the time and obviously clueless. Project what? I'm not the one in every thread bashing white males....I can be called many things but man-hater is not one of them. Unlike weak people, I do not need to knock men down to succeed. then I guess people that didn't live through the 1950s should shut their mouths about what happened back then. And my dad and several of his cousins were in the service during the Vietnam war so no sweetie, I am not clueless.
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Miss Tequila
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1971
Aug 26, 2019 12:15:23 GMT -5
Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 26, 2019 12:15:23 GMT -5
I get it. None of the feminists on here can admit that most men got screwed when it came to getting drafted in the Vietnam war while women were safe from the draft. When your hatred of men is so deep that you can’t even admit when they were negatively impacted by sexism...got it That was half a century ago, but people like you are STILL screwing women over by by not wanting to hire females who will get pregnant or offering paid maternity leave. People like me paid for our own maternity leave. Not sure how anyone screwed me over...then again, I've never been one that would expect others to fund my life choices. I've covered the maternity leave for 2 people in the last 5 years. Not sure how you can say I am screwing women over when I was the one screwed over twice.
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Miss Tequila
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1971
Aug 26, 2019 12:25:16 GMT -5
Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 26, 2019 12:25:16 GMT -5
I get it. None of the feminists on here can admit that most men got screwed when it came to getting drafted in the Vietnam war while women were safe from the draft. When your hatred of men is so deep that you can’t even admit when they were negatively impacted by sexism...got it Actually it strikes me that your internalised misogyny makes you incapable of allowing discussion of sexism against women to take place. You don't even acknowledge it when it happens to you. I didn't bring up the Vietnam war but responded to it when others (perhaps even you) said it was a privilege for men to get drafted. At least dj was honest enough to say men got screwed. Funny enough, a raging feminazi agreed with him but when I say it I am internalizing misogyny...and yes, I get that it is sexist to not allow women to get drafted but that doesn't mean that the men that got drafted that didn't want to go and then died (or came back so fucked up) didn't get screwed. I know the history of sexism. I know that sexism in some form will always exist (going both ways, btw). But refusing to acknowledge when females benefit is ridiculous, as well. In one breath we want equality, in another breath we still want to be paid to sit home for a year for each child we have. In one breath we want equality, but then we want men to support us so we can sit home and not work. In one breath we want equality, but then we choose family friendly careers that pay less and then go after the man for child support, alimony, his pension/401k plan and anything else we can get our hands on. I got divorced and my ex has not paid one cent to me. It would never occur to me to go after someone for money or assets. I am truly a strong, independent women who does not need a man for anything. My favorite is when "strong, feminist women" suck at the teat of their husband/ex-husband...give me a break. Call me a misogynist all you want...I'm calling hypocrite for every feminist that relies on a man for support.
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