djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 23, 2019 18:11:26 GMT -5
I think about 80% of what you said is accurate and appropriate. here is where we differ. since 80% of all equities are owned by the top 10%, it is unlikely she is watching the stock market much. the stock market tends to forecast economic trends. it is always looking ahead. by the time the herd hits the street, it is too late. the market is already bear. so invest for the long haul, and get out anything you can't afford to lose. invest wisely for the long haul until then. I think Democracy is a false construct. there has never been a true democracy and there never will be. we will probably never have another fair election in the US, and probably not many other places either. I am not sure whether that was ever real, either, so no great loss. find a place where you can be happy and move there. people risked everything to come here, and you can risk everything to leave. the world won't collapse because of Trump. but it might die the death of 1000 cuts because of what follows. and things might get better, too. it all depends on what happens in 2020, imo.
If you (the generic you, as in anyone that does move) love the country, why would you move in retirement? I get buying a place elesewhere, but why leave the country entirely? We decided to have the other place for retirement to be here in the states. After all, it is all just a "place of peace" inside our heads. If you are flaming conservative it is in your head, if you are flaming liberal it is in your head. I just do not understand why you have to be in your head in a foreign place...... Last sentence above........some of us do believe we can only do it with Trump, me included, but I know one thing for sure, even if we elect a socialist in 2020, nothing radical will happen for decades. Most of it is just political shit for the masses. On both sides. Bernie might try it, but we know he would not be able to pull off the shit he wants. All the others are basicilly posers. Except for maybe, the squad but until they run the Congress or the White House nothing changes well, to start off with, I don't love countries. I don't think anyone should. nations are approximately as awful as their ability to do harm, imo. you can draw your own logical conclusion from that remark.
I have in my mind a foreign place for several reasons. now, mind you. this is all HIGHLY personal. most people won't have this same set of variables.
first of all, I am drawn to history. I like antiquity. so I am more attracted to, say, Greece than I am to, say, Australia. when I say antiquity, I mean uniquely beautiful places that are filled with the facts of humanity- what we think of as "civilization".
second, cost of aging. the US absolutely sucks in this sense. we are a youth culture. if you are over 30, people think you are old. furthermore, though we TALK about respecting elders here it is nothing like, say, Japan, where elders are revered. and then there is the horrific cost. I will save $60k/year on average by moving outside the US for my aging.
Bernie will not succeed. corporations own the US. Warren won't succeed either. ONLY right wing populism can succeed here, imo. that is ENTIRELY my opinion, but I have grown increasingly cynical since 1980, and now am at the absolute APEX of cynicism in this regard. we are utterly corrupt, and it is not fixable, except by a massive crisis. and my experience with economic crises tells me that it invariably leads to reduced freedom, and freedom is important to me. again, you can draw your own logical conclusions.
any more questions?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 23, 2019 18:15:12 GMT -5
I think the key is to make sure that everyone who has the ability is given the opportunity.
If it's clear the deck is stacked against you and all the opportunities are funneling to the rich and the kids and friends of the rich, while your best efforts aren't enough to provide you and your family with even the bare necessities, things will get ugly. It always does.
How rich do you want to be, it is out there, if you want to be rich, you have all the opportunity you need. I can supply you with a long list, Warren Buffet, started with nothing,, is he rich enough for you?
not true. he was the son of a 4 term congressman, and he went to Wharton, just like Trump.
he is a pecune, bro.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 23, 2019 18:17:19 GMT -5
How rich do you want to be, it is out there, if you want to be rich, you have all the opportunity you need. I can supply you with a long list, Warren Buffet, started with nothing,, is he rich enough for you? You do need a bunch of stuff given to you. fact is if it is given to you you are more likely to fail. check out Lottery winners. Here is another one I listen to almost every day,
Dave Ramsey, Listen to him get rich!
Warren Buffet had a good start in life and began his business with money his parents gave him. He didn't start out with nothing - bad example of someone who pulled themselves up by the bootstraps, OC.
I'm not saying everyone deserves to be rich. I'm saying every kid should get a safe place to live, enough decent food to not be hungry, and a good enough education they can go to trade school or college, if they have the ability.
Did you know 80% of prisoners in the US are illiterate? What percentage of those people do you think might have ended up working a job and supporting a family, if they'd been taught to read and write well?
Are they 100% responsible for being illiterate, or do we look at why our education system is failing so many kids? Or why such a large percentage of poor minority guys get incarcerated for minor drug violations, when a larger percentage of white kids smoke pot?
approximately 0% will end up out of the bottom quintile. upward mobility has never been strong in the US, and it is terrible for any young person with a felony conviction.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 23, 2019 18:18:25 GMT -5
You have a much better chance today than ever before. Please provide the supporting data. Geees, welts there is opportunity every where you look, I seriously mean that, every where I look there is money to be made. Quick example, Craigslist, It is so easy to sell stuff now, Remember the good ol days. where you placed an add in the newspaper, paid or it, and hope some one read your ad. A few seconds on Craigslist how many thousands can have instant access to your ad. There is money to been made all over.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 23, 2019 18:19:21 GMT -5
Warren Buffet had a good start in life and began his business with money his parents gave him. He didn't start out with nothing - bad example of someone who pulled themselves up by the bootstraps, OC.
I'm not saying everyone deserves to be rich. I'm saying every kid should get a safe place to live, enough decent food to not be hungry, and a good enough education they can go to trade school or college, if they have the ability.
Did you know 80% of prisoners in the US are illiterate? What percentage of those people do you think might have ended up working a job and supporting a family, if they'd been taught to read and write well?
Are they 100% responsible for being illiterate, or do we look at why our education system is failing so many kids? Or why such a large percentage of poor minority guys get incarcerated for minor drug violations, when a larger percentage of white kids smoke pot?
Did Buffet start out as a millionaire? no. but Trump did.
your previous statement is that he started with nothing, and that is totally untrue.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 23, 2019 18:21:03 GMT -5
He sure had help. His dad was a former U.S. congressional rep and founded the investment business, Buffett-Falk & Co, of which Warren began working at the age of 21. Warren was delivering newspaper as a young kid, work ethic!! Work ethic, strange thing, as a boss, you recognize it almost instantly, the reason is we see it so seldom. Show up on time, do more than expected, act like you care about your job!
showing up for your burger flipping job might eventually earn you $15/hr.
#recipeforpoverty
not every question can be answered with the trope "work ethic".
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 23, 2019 18:21:50 GMT -5
Warren Buffet went to college in 1947, and made his fortune in the 50's and 60's. Statistically, upward economic mobility was much better during those decades than it is now. If we can get back to those levels, our country would be way, way better. You have a much better chance today than ever before. what makes you think that?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 23, 2019 18:22:09 GMT -5
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Aug 24, 2019 5:24:19 GMT -5
Trump has no authority to make companies come back here or find alternatives to dealing with China. He blames the fed for holding the stock market back yet it's his policies and remarks that cause the recent down market. Obviously he learned nothing about finance at Wharton? And his hand picked Fed Chief is a greater enemy than the leader of China. He gets more bizarre everyday.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 24, 2019 8:56:17 GMT -5
Trump has no authority to make companies come back here or find alternatives to dealing with China. He blames the fed for holding the stock market back yet it's his policies and remarks that cause the recent down market. Obviously he learned nothing about finance at Wharton? And his hand picked Fed Chief is a greater enemy than the leader of China. He gets more bizarre everyday. This statement bothers me more than him likening himself to god/jesus. It feeds the myth that every person working in government service is part of a vast conspiracy to destroy the country.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 24, 2019 9:29:24 GMT -5
with the president of the United States declaring
"I'm the King of Israel" "I am the Chosen One" "I am the 2nd coming of God" ? If you are, how would you have felt if President Obama had said these exact words while he was President?
No whataboutism. No trying to "reinterpret" what was said because it's on camera, it came from his mouth. Part of why his supporters claim to like him is that he says what he means. But this time, let's skip the step where his supporters tell us "what he really meant to say was...". Let's deal with just those 3 phrases. I am the King of Israel. I am the Chose One (with a brief turn & look to the sky) & I am the 2nd coming of God.
I have a massive problem with this as a Christian. I also have a massive problem with this as a United States citizen. I would have a problem with it regardless of the political party of the person stating it. The Christianity portion upsets me more than the political portion. I didn't vote for the idiot.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 24, 2019 10:58:41 GMT -5
Time for a musical interlude. . How about some classic rock for OldCoyote.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Aug 24, 2019 12:37:23 GMT -5
We'll all hold our breath and hope he doesn't insult the world too much at the G7 summit. Maybe they'll all ignore him and he can stomp off and come home.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Aug 24, 2019 13:13:38 GMT -5
I didn't vote for the idiot.
I did ........ to keep Hillary away from the Supreme Court. We can get rid of DT after 4 years but a SC placement affects a generation. I have no regrets with my vote for this reason.
Depends on who is on the ballot in Nov 2020 as to who I'll vote for.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 24, 2019 13:15:29 GMT -5
Please provide the supporting data. Geees, welts there is opportunity every where you look, I seriously mean that, every where I look there is money to be made. Quick example, Craigslist, It is so easy to sell stuff now, Remember the good ol days. where you placed an add in the newspaper, paid or it, and hope some one read your ad. A few seconds on Craigslist how many thousands can have instant access to your ad. There is money to been made all over.
What are you going to sell on Craigslist if you're poor and have nothing? Your first-born?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 24, 2019 13:23:00 GMT -5
I suppose you can drag your kids around at night to go dumpster diving, so you can sell a broken coffee maker on Craigslist for $5. Oooh, I know! You can steal stuff and sell it on Craigslist!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 24, 2019 13:49:39 GMT -5
I didn't vote for the idiot.I did ........ to keep Hillary away from the Supreme Court. We can get rid of DT after 4 years but a SC placement affects a generation. I have no regrets with my vote for this reason. Depends on who is on the ballot in Nov 2020 as to who I'll vote for. what do you want from the SCOTUS?
because from where I sit, they appear to be prepared to roll back a generation of civil rights.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Aug 24, 2019 14:21:47 GMT -5
I didn't vote for the idiot.I did ........ to keep Hillary away from the Supreme Court. We can get rid of DT after 4 years but a SC placement affects a generation. I have no regrets with my vote for this reason. Depends on who is on the ballot in Nov 2020 as to who I'll vote for. what do you want from the SCOTUS?
because from where I sit, they appear to be prepared to roll back a generation of civil rights.
Literally that’s a plus to many.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Aug 24, 2019 16:26:06 GMT -5
I was wondering the same. Specifically, what does that mean?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 24, 2019 16:26:41 GMT -5
We'll all hold our breath and hope he doesn't insult the world too much at the G7 summit. Maybe they'll all ignore him and he can stomp off and come home. Better yet, they can keep trump.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Aug 24, 2019 16:35:14 GMT -5
""I'm not saying everyone deserves to be rich. I'm saying every kid should get a safe place to live, enough decent food to not be hungry, and a good enough education they can go to trade school or college, if they have the ability. Did you know 80% of prisoners in the US are illiterate? What percentage of those people do you think might have ended up working a job and supporting a family, if they'd been taught to read and write well?
Are they 100% responsible for being illiterate, or do we look at why our education system is failing so many kids? Or why such a large percentage of poor minority guys get incarcerated for minor drug violations, when a larger percentage of white kids smoke pot?"""
That 2.3 M prisoners in the US amounts to about 0.07% of us, the other 99.93% of us are functioning within our societal system. We should not be tailoring our society to fix the few outliers, we should design it to work for the 99.93% - and build workarounds to help the outlier exceptions. As for 80% of the 0.07% being illiterate - that is not a reflection on our educational system (altho that sucks - another subject), it is more likely to correlate with mental abilities. Ie, if they had not been in jail, they are still unable to learn/function at a normal level.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Aug 24, 2019 19:30:16 GMT -5
go dumpster diving
If this is what it takes to survive, it's done.
Sounds like you need a month or two on the 'other side of the tracks'
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 24, 2019 19:37:35 GMT -5
go dumpster divingIf this is what it takes to survive, it's done. Sounds like you need a month or two on the 'other side of the tracks' How many broken coffee-makers can I sell before I can escape poverty?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 24, 2019 19:40:27 GMT -5
I'd rather live here, so I don't have to go dumpster diving to afford healthcare, childcare, or to put my kids through university. If you think that's a great way to live, have at it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 24, 2019 19:59:52 GMT -5
I'd rather live here, so I don't have to go dumpster diving to afford healthcare, childcare, or to put my kids through university. If you think that's a great way to live, have at it. the assertion "we are the greatest" can only come from an American who has never been anywhere else.
it is as stupid as brand loyalty.
we are a great nation. no doubt. but we are also deeply flawed.
is that so hard to say?
even Trump implicitly says and markets that idea every day: we can be better.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 24, 2019 21:02:35 GMT -5
Geees, welts there is opportunity every where you look, I seriously mean that, every where I look there is money to be made. Quick example, Craigslist, It is so easy to sell stuff now, Remember the good ol days. where you placed an add in the newspaper, paid or it, and hope some one read your ad. A few seconds on Craigslist how many thousands can have instant access to your ad. There is money to been made all over.
What are you going to sell on Craigslist if you're poor and have nothing? Your first-born? Go out steal something, sell it on Craigslist, if the buyer has lot's of money rob him,
Remember how I got rich,, picking up the illegals working the hell out of them the off at ICE at the end of the really long day no water no food,, Hey those things cost money!! see money to be made every where you look!!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 24, 2019 21:23:12 GMT -5
go dumpster divingIf this is what it takes to survive, it's done. Sounds like you need a month or two on the 'other side of the tracks' How many broken coffee-makers can I sell before I can escape poverty? Welts, no sarcasm here,
One of the things I see that some one with little means , door to door, shop to shop sell food, tacos, tamales, like that,
I usually buy something even if I am not going to eat it, I like the motivation that person has. Here is an example of making money when you have almost nothing, He is a friend of mine not close a friend never less, Julian, always has something for sale, he had a tow truck, drive around looking for car parked like beside a house not being used,
stops, talks to the owner, buys the car for next to nothing, makes sure it has a title, gets it running, sells it makes a fair amount of money,
I would guess he has sold 300 400 cars since I have known him. if it is not a car it is a TV ,Or Or Or, always has something for sale. Yep paid for his house raised his family doing it. Oh by the way he is here illegally, been here almost 40 years,, deported three time, will never be legal, if he gets caught this time 6 years in prison. He also has a legal S.S card!
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 24, 2019 21:24:21 GMT -5
""I'm not saying everyone deserves to be rich. I'm saying every kid should get a safe place to live, enough decent food to not be hungry, and a good enough education they can go to trade school or college, if they have the ability. Did you know 80% of prisoners in the US are illiterate? What percentage of those people do you think might have ended up working a job and supporting a family, if they'd been taught to read and write well?
Are they 100% responsible for being illiterate, or do we look at why our education system is failing so many kids? Or why such a large percentage of poor minority guys get incarcerated for minor drug violations, when a larger percentage of white kids smoke pot?"""
That 2.3 M prisoners in the US amounts to about 0.07% of us, the other 99.93% of us are functioning within our societal system. We should not be tailoring our society to fix the few outliers, we should design it to work for the 99.93% - and build workarounds to help the outlier exceptions. As for 80% of the 0.07% being illiterate - that is not a reflection on our educational system (altho that sucks - another subject), it is more likely to correlate with mental abilities. Ie, if they had not been in jail, they are still unable to learn/function at a normal level. You might want to check your math. A quick glance indicates you are likely off by a factor of 10.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 24, 2019 21:49:29 GMT -5
Although the US makes up about 4 percent of the world's population, it accounts for 22 percent of the world's prison population. The US is out of line not only with its developed peers but also with authoritarian nations like Cuba, Russia, and China. www.vox.com/2015/7/13/8913297/mass-incarceration-maps-charts
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 24, 2019 21:55:47 GMT -5
How many broken coffee-makers can I sell before I can escape poverty? Welts, no sarcasm here,
One of the things I see that some one with little means , door to door, shop to shop sell food, tacos, tamales, like that,
I usually buy something even if I am not going to eat it, I like the motivation that person has. Here is an example of making money when you have almost nothing, He is a friend of mine not close a friend never less, Julian, always has something for sale, he had a tow truck, drive around looking for car parked like beside a house not being used,
stops, talks to the owner, buys the car for next to nothing, makes sure it has a title, gets it running, sells it makes a fair amount of money,
I would guess he has sold 300 400 cars since I have known him. if it is not a car it is a TV ,Or Or Or, always has something for sale. Yep paid for his house raised his family doing it. Oh by the way he is here illegally, been here almost 40 years,, deported three time, will never be legal, if he gets caught this time 6 years in prison. He also has a legal S.S card!
How was he able to buy a tow truck? Can a woman with 3 kids and no money or mechanical knowledge buy a tow truck and get cars running? Furthermore, people who make tamales/tacos usually live in groups. There's always someone to watch the kids, a grandmother, an aunt, somebody. Someone who is poor and has no family is screwed. You always think that if it applies to you and yours, then it's across the board.
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