azucena
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Post by azucena on Aug 18, 2019 17:39:10 GMT -5
About six months, a spot at work opened up and I was asked to take on larger accounts. Without hesitation, I turned it down. I've put a lot of time and effort in the past 3 years learning and building my current accounts. I'm also just barely maintaining a manageable work life balance where I am actively involved in dd11 and dd7s lives. I knew taking on these more demanding clients would tip the scale.
Now, there's been more shuffling, and I've had a new boss for 2 months. There has been talk in the last couple of weeks of shifting clients to better balance the workload. I'm game but have stated several times that I wanted to be part of the discussion. On friday, my boss copied me on an internal message to senior mngmt stating that I was taking on the 2 largest clients. I was floored and furious and totally feel like he/they back channeled me against my wishes.
My boss stopped by an hour later and asked if I had seen the msg. I told him straight up that this was exactly what I didn't want to happen to which he said kinda late now. I countered with I didn't think so since I hadn't been part of the conversation and that's now how things are typically done. We left at let's think about it over the weekend.
In essence, these two clients are 20 to 30% of the work I turned down. I already put in 45 to 50 hour weeks and focus to stay efficient and delegate enough to sustain that. I was very transparent after I made vice president a couple of years ago that this was my landing spot. I foresee no future jumps for me. I don't want to leave the technical work which would be taken away in the next rung. I don't want to put in 60 or 70 hour weeks, and I know it's not sustainable for me. I've been clear that I will continue to produce good work, work extra when required for deadlines but not routinely, take on a mentoring role, etc. However, I have no interest in giving up any more aspects of my family life to be a rockstar at work. The trade off is that I will provide stability for the dept and pick up extra work when I see others need help. I've said this to my last 3 bosses and the new one as well. My previous bosses have seemed ok with it; this one doesn't seem to believe me. I could be totally content doing this same job for the next 20 yrs.
I didn't expect to be put in this situation, particularly so soon after turning down the other position. How do I get what I want without causing a total scene?
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Aug 18, 2019 18:53:14 GMT -5
Sounds like they really want you with some of the larger accounts. Either say no and be prepared for whatever happens, or ask that they take enough of the other accounts and responsibilities off your plate so that you aren't don't much/any more work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 19:14:46 GMT -5
Well, now you know your boss can't be trusted. Sad. Is there any way you can get additional people to work on these projects since they're giving you additional work? Think of what YOU need and then bring it up with the boss, starting with, "I had told you earlier that I did not want to take on additional clients because I wanted to provide excellent service to the ones I have and still maintain a good work-life balance. I cannot do both unless the following things change...." Companies always like to talk about how supportive they are of work-life balance (even when they're not). But it reminds me of what I heard from one of the external auditors when I worked for an insurance company. He was quitting public accounting to go to a private company. He said, "In a factory when you need to make more money you run the machines longer. We're the machines."
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Aug 19, 2019 6:43:39 GMT -5
That stinks.
It sounds like you will need to offer solutions that will work for you. The only ones I can think of involve you delegating to others more of the other work you do. I know that doesn't relieve you entirely as you'll need to put in the time managing the people you delegate to, but it should help. Is there any work that isn't clearly value-add that you can have reassigned entirely?
Your boss does sound like he needs training in listening, as well.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Aug 19, 2019 7:06:32 GMT -5
If they want you with larger clients, then it would make sense to transition some smaller ones away to maintain your current workload. Is that possible?
If not, I'd start looking. This likely isn't the end of this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 8:11:52 GMT -5
Your boss does sound like he needs training in listening, as well. My guess is that the boss heard just fine- but caved and gave in to upper management. Not a good sign.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 19, 2019 8:23:18 GMT -5
Your boss does sound like he needs training in listening, as well. My guess is that the boss heard just fine- but caved and gave in to upper management. Not a good sign. In terms of "caved"...I actually don't see anywhere in OP's accounting of events that the boss ever agreed she would or had a right to expect to be included in discussions of what her assigned work would be. Same goes for an earlier comment along the lines of "your boss can't be trusted". Both of these assessments hinge on the idea that OP's boss agreed to something then backed out of it...based on OP's accounting of events it seems plenty likely that OP said "I want this" and the boss just decided "no, you don't get that". To OP's question of "How do I get what I want without causing a total scene?", the likely answer seems to be "you don't". I'm presuming "what you want" is to go back to just having the clients you decide you want given your discussion of "learning and building my current accounts". If you are more focused on work/life balance, then it's easy. You lay out "I'm taking on these accounts which project to be X amount of work...here is a list of my current clients and their work levels, you'd need to remove X amount of work from the current list".
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 19, 2019 10:26:33 GMT -5
IMVHO, new boss means new rules. Your choice as to whether or not you like them. Old boss doesn't have to agree to old rules. In the mean time...I would ask for a bigger staff, to delegate more and see if you can take on the new clients. I get protecting relationships with others. I'm basically a project manager at work, and I pretty much do whatever I can to preserve the good relationships I have with folks. Easily, right now, though, I manage 30 projects a year...but there are a good number that I would be comfortable handing off to someone else with clear directions. Maybe even close to 1/3. ETA: I also hope you started looking around at jobs over the weekend, too. It doesn't sound like they are giving you a ton of time to think about things.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 19, 2019 11:52:17 GMT -5
the problem is that your needs and the needs of your company might not align. You need to have a heart-to-heart with your new boss and find out what his/her plans are for you and your department.
I left a company in January (resigned without a job) because it became clear that people meant nothing to them, let alone a work/life balance. And I was also in the C-suite. We had awful turnover, morale was in the toilet and I was working ridiculous hours just trying to keep up. I spoke to the president several times as did others but it went in one ear and out the other. For him, it was all about the bottom line. What he didn't see was the impact to the bottom line due to constant turnover (just the recruiting fees were crazy) ...essentially he is just a shitty leader but also, he is under immense pressure from the shareholders in Europe.
I hope you have better luck in your organization but I suggest a back-up plan.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 19, 2019 14:00:22 GMT -5
My boss is great about us trying to maintain a good work-life balance and it finally got to a point where upper management was told we didn't have the capacity to take on more without hiring someone. You voiced your concerns but either your boss and/or management don't care or can't afford to care. You can run it up the chain but then that puts you at odds with your boss and the odds of you winning in that scenario based on the response you already got are pretty slim. I'd start looking for a new job and when you find one if the current employer values you enough and you want to be there then maybe you come to an agreement that includes a raise and lessening your workload.
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mcsangel2
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Post by mcsangel2 on Aug 19, 2019 19:26:37 GMT -5
I'm also very strict about work/life balance and not working more than 45 hours a week except at month end (accounting). I'm gobsmacked that as a VP you don't work more than 45-50. The way you describe this all coming about doesn't sound like the kind of communication I would expect involving someone at your level.
I have no advice on how to get what you want without rocking the boat. The couple of times in my career I've been in that kind of situation, I pretty much had to go to the nuclear option (threaten to leave, and meant it). Fortunately for me, it worked out.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Aug 20, 2019 2:37:29 GMT -5
How did it go today?
My thoughts:
I don't think you can or should refer to life/work balance. IMHO it is something that employers give lip service to but the reality is that they don't really care about it. In fact, they want it unbalanced towards work.
Secondly, the fact of the matter is as a vice president with a strong client management role, you will not ever control your job duties. You are not far enough up the food chain and that is just they way it is. The reality is that a VP in sales is a very different job from that of a corporate VP. If anything, your role is more important because it brings in the money but that is not how the world really works.
It sounds like they want you working with the bigger fish in the bigger ponds. In other words, they want you making more money for the company not just nurturing the income you presently provide. They view you as having the potential to be a heavy hitter.
Your new boss is taking a very short-sighted view because he figures that you are locked in there and will not leave over something like this. Is he even aware of the desires you expressed before?
The ball is now in your court. Do you stay and put out the new work while neglecting or passing on your current clients, or do you go elsewhere? Can you delegate enough of your current work load to be manageable and are they offering enough more money for you to buy help at home if needed?
One last thought, If you have 20 years of career left, it is unrealistic to spend that long in one position.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Aug 20, 2019 12:34:50 GMT -5
Lots of responses helped me to think about this from different sides which is what I like about YM. I'm a VP of pricing, not sales. I price the deals that the sales guys bring in. I tend to disagree about not referring to work/life balance. It's important to me and something they can't pay me enough undo. If someone more ambitious than me (and still qualified) is willing to put in way more effort, isn't it in the company's best interest to let them do so? And, if I'm saying, I know it's enough to burn me out, shouldn't they respect that given that I've proven myself as a good producer and am loyal? Why can't I control my own career path enough to say that I'm okay with staying in this position? I've only been in it 3 years so far and could foresee taking on a bigger client or two in a couple of years. It's being forced to do it now when I'm already at capacity that's over the line. I've been completely happy here for over 10 years. I've turned down rotation options and have also said that I didn't want to manage people. I've proven myself as a team player by mentoring newer analysts and taking on additional work when others get too busy. I think I'm forced to make the two clients work which will force me to delegate more (something I'm getting better at), becoming more efficient with my own work/time, and honestly just continuing to fight for the balance I want and if that means lesser priority stuff doesn't get done as fast or doesn't get done at all, then we'll have to see how that plays out.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 20, 2019 14:06:27 GMT -5
I think it really depends on your company and how willing you are to go elsewhere. If you have an up or out culture (or even just manager) they're not going to be okay with anything else. I'd probably reference work/life balance especially since you've been there so long. Then if you end up leaving over it, there's no question that you gave them a chance to fix it before looking for a new job.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 20, 2019 14:17:46 GMT -5
Personally, I've always worked for companies who did a pretty good job at keeping a good work/life balance, but I don't think I'd ever actually say those words when discussing my workload. I just don't like the sound of it, in my mind it always SOUNDS like I'm saying "I just don't want to work that hard". I also feel like it sounds more whiny than creating a specific action. I'd be more likely to just say "I can take those 2 clients, but I'd need to move these clients to someone else then due to the amount of time these new 2 are going to take".
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 20, 2019 14:33:20 GMT -5
Personally, I've always worked for companies who did a pretty good job at keeping a good work/life balance, but I don't think I'd ever actually say those words when discussing my workload. I just don't like the sound of it, in my mind it always SOUNDS like I'm saying "I just don't want to work that hard". I also feel like it sounds more whiny than creating a specific action. I'd be more likely to just say "I can take those 2 clients, but I'd need to move these clients to someone else then due to the amount of time these new 2 are going to take". This. And this is exactly what I said to my superior as new projects have presented themselves. Of course, the work hasn't gotten shifted, nor will the work get shifted in the next year.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 20, 2019 14:43:58 GMT -5
If someone more ambitious than me (and still qualified) is willing to put in way more effort, isn't it in the company's best interest to let them do so?
Depends does the company think that said ambitious person is the best one for the job? I've seen all types of ambitious "put in the effort" people that either crash and burn or get out of Dodge before their pile of cards collapses around them leaving others to fix it. Ambitious doesn't always mean the best candidate.
Your new VP does not have to honor the old VP's deal. It sounds like the new VP may not be all that interested in a work/life balance for his employees.
I would frame it instead as this is what I have going on now, this is what I will have going on with X, this is how I plan to prioritize. I would like to discuss my plan with you and discuss any suggestions you have to make sure things continue to operate as efficiently and accurately as possible.
When I frame it as I have to give up X, Y, Z to make room for A, B, C they will often work with me on it. My bosses aren't looking over my shoulder every day so sometimes they aren't aware exactly how long X, Y, Z takes. Then it's on them to decide which is more important and I've covered my ass because I didn't unilaterally make a decision.
If they don't work with me at least it's out there that I tried before things go to hell in a hand basket.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 20, 2019 15:49:51 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, how would you react if one of the employees that you will need to delegate more work to you said "No. I am only willing to do the work I have been doing, and nothing more."?
Because that is what I heard from you in the first post. You have the work you have been doing. That is the work you want to do, and you told your bosses that you were not willing to do any other work. The fact that the needs of the company/department/team changed did not matter to you. Your bosses basically responded by assigning you the work they need you to do based on the changing needs of the company/department/team. Your wants did not matter to them.
And as a manager, I'm on the side of your bosses. Employees don't get to tell me what work they will or will not do.
Now, it is also important that I am aware of the volume of work employees have and to make sure that they can accomplish all of the assigned work in a 40 hour work week. That might mean re-balancing work loads across multiple teams. It might mean helping them figure out what to delegate, or even what can stop being done. But outside of that, it is my job to assign the work. It is the employee's job to do the work. And that's true whether they are mail room clerk who suddenly has an extra floor to cover or a VP.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Aug 21, 2019 10:16:33 GMT -5
I didn't communicate my stance well. On average it's taking me 45 hour per week to stay on top of the high priority items for my current clients. FWIW, our full time week is actually 38 hours. There are weeks where I work 50 and 60 hours and weeks when I travel. There is a constant running list of things that I just can't get to. Adding these two clients makes what was already more than a full time job overwhelming. We are being asked to do more and more work along with even more intricated work with the same amount of people as 10 years ago. Sooner or later we're going to hit a breaking point. New ambitious guy has the chops to take on this work. This is not just my opinion but others as well. There is capacity for more work for the analysts below me. Delegating downward isn't an issue. I've had nothing but awesome managers here and just knew I was due for an issue. I could have gotten on board with the changes easier if he had communicated better. Instead it feels like he went behind my back and made it seem to upper management like I was volunteering to take this workload. It's hard to cover all of the details/nuances online. I appreciate the feedback because part of why I posted was that I was feeling like maybe I was being a bit naïve about how good I've had it all along. That's been confirmed and I accept some culpability in that. However, I still think there are underlying issues with how this was handled by others. FWIW, my mentor here who has watched this all unfold tends to agree.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 21, 2019 11:18:27 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, how would you react if one of the employees that you will need to delegate more work to you said "No. I am only willing to do the work I have been doing, and nothing more."?
Because that is what I heard from you in the first post. You have the work you have been doing. That is the work you want to do, and you told your bosses that you were not willing to do any other work. The fact that the needs of the company/department/team changed did not matter to you. Your bosses basically responded by assigning you the work they need you to do based on the changing needs of the company/department/team. Your wants did not matter to them.
And as a manager, I'm on the side of your bosses. Employees don't get to tell me what work they will or will not do.
Now, it is also important that I am aware of the volume of work employees have and to make sure that they can accomplish all of the assigned work in a 40 hour work week. That might mean re-balancing work loads across multiple teams. It might mean helping them figure out what to delegate, or even what can stop being done. But outside of that, it is my job to assign the work. It is the employee's job to do the work. And that's true whether they are mail room clerk who suddenly has an extra floor to cover or a VP. The company I came from did not care if you could accomplish the workload in 40 hours. In fact, it was impossible to do so. We were all salaried (other than my AP and Payroll clerks) so there was no issue with overtime. But if anyone said to me that they could not take on a project because they couldn't get it done within 40 hours, well it would not have gone over well. Not that I didn't fight to get more staff, just that we weren't getting approval to get new staff. I tried to balance out the best I could but realistically, there was too much work and not enough heads. And that wasn't just in Finance. And it wasn't just in the US. For all the talk of how great it is to work in Europe, they had the same workload and the same headcount limitations. And I'm speaking of Controller on down. It was absolutely expected at the VP level and above. They paid very well but in the end, money is not the be-all, end-all. But I wasn't changing the culture there (I tried) so I resigned and went elsewhere.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 21, 2019 11:25:16 GMT -5
Your boss is a chicken. Boss should have come to you, even if he was telling you that is how it was going to be - it should have been face to face and personal. Finding out in a group announcement that your personal job is changing drastically is just shitty.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 21, 2019 16:45:33 GMT -5
Now that you have a data point about how your boss works, I think you have a couple choices.. 1. Wait it out until you get a new boss 2. Figure out a way to get head/contain/negotiate/work with the new boss 3. Find a new job
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 17:59:10 GMT -5
Your boss is a chicken. Boss should have come to you, even if he was telling you that is how it was going to be - it should have been face to face and personal. Finding out in a group announcement that your personal job is changing drastically is just shitty. I agree- that's why I was saying he couldn't be trusted.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Aug 21, 2019 19:48:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm probably going to wait him out. He's said 3 to 5 yrs but who knows. He works remotely and ultimately i think will be hands off. I was totally unprepared that he was going to come in and flip things.
Here's another more minor irritation...he calls me kiddo and sweetie. I'm gonna have to tell him to stop that. He calls a male employee Tommy and another one has a more distinctive nickname. I think he feels he's being funny or cute or whatever but it's enough to make my skin crawl even before this.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 21, 2019 20:26:43 GMT -5
Ugh. Shut that shit down.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 21, 2019 20:37:42 GMT -5
Ugh. Shut that shit down. Definitely put a stop to that
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 21, 2019 20:57:41 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm probably going to wait him out. He's said 3 to 5 yrs but who knows. He works remotely and ultimately i think will be hands off. I was totally unprepared that he was going to come in and flip things. Here's another more minor irritation... he calls me kiddo and sweetie. I'm gonna have to tell him to stop that. He calls a male employee Tommy and another one has a more distinctive nickname. I think he feels he's being funny or cute or whatever but it's enough to make my skin crawl even before this. I only ever had one supervisor call me kiddo and she was someone that was going nowhere in life but the "power" went to her head (this is when I was in college and worked for a mortgage company). I didn't really care because I was 20 and I was not going to be there 15 years later like her. It was all she had! But one day she said it and then made some weird comment about saying it (trying to get a reaction out of me). I simply told her that there was no reason to get offended...she was old and I was young so to her I was a kiddo...she never called me that again!lol
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