HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Aug 13, 2019 12:31:01 GMT -5
Yesterday I was summoned to be a juror for Seattle Superior Court. I rode the bus downtown, showed up at 8:30. The court clerks started assigning us to panels. Panel 1 had about 35 jurors. Panel 2 also 35. Panel 3 had 75- and the one I was assigned to. Uh-oh. More potential jurors = bigger or more divisive case. Panel 4, also 35. Sigh. Around 10:30, they called the first 60 jurors from panel 3. I was higher than 60, so I was relieved for a bit. However, around 11:00 they came back and got the rest of us. Boo. The 15 of us file into the court room. It is stacked high with 100+ file boxes. Oh shit, I think. The judge explains that this trial will last until *September* and then asks for people wishing to declare hardships. He indicated there are very few good reasons for hardship and then asked for a raise of hands. About 10 of us raised our cards. Several asked to be excused for a variety of reasons: child care issues, students that can't afford to go without work, going abroad in a few weeks, general "can't afford to miss work" The judge said he had every excuse everyone had ever listed in his database. One guy said he was leaving to teach in Japan September 1. The judge said "That's what you said in 2015!". Well, turns out he's only state side in the summer. and he still has the same job. One guy was saying he needed PT on his leg and couldn't serve - the judge asked him what time his appointments were since the jury would only serve ~9 to 4PM 4 days a week he could find other time to get his PT. I raised my hand and pled hardship: a family vacation last week of August and was excused, but not after being side eyed by the judge. I feel very lucky. I would be so sad to miss/cancel my trip. About half of us got off. Which brings me to my conundrum. Most hourly people can't live on $10 a day (what the court "gives" you). Luckily I'm salary and would still get my paycheck, so is that really isn't a hardship for me. But as we know most people live paycheck to paycheck. Nobody can afford to be reimbursed only 10 bucks a day. Those of us with regular salaried careers: how can anyone be expected to drop everything for over a month on such little notice? My kid's summer camp I booked in February doesn't even start til 8:30. I would have to be in court by then. What about travel, work commitments, etc? I want to take this seriously and I want to serve my civic duty, but HOW? How is this possible? The court has childcare but only for those who are USING the court system, not those SERVING the court system. Pay people minimum wage if they aren't salaried? Too expensive. Allow live streaming or remote back play of the court proceedings to be more flexible? Well, you'd get people not paying attention and easy to question whether you got a fair trial. Get homeless and retired people to serve on juries... except they aren't really my "peers" and homeless folks often have mental or drug addiction issues. I served on a jury before, it was a murder trial and lasted a week. I have NO clue what this month long trial was about, but it must have been serious. Anyways, my real question is how could anyone actually get judged by their peers? We're all too busy and the court system makes it impossible. I was happy to serve for a week, or even (gasp) two... but how do people drop their entire lives for a month or more (years for OJ Simpson ). I dunno. How do we fix this?
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 13, 2019 12:44:36 GMT -5
There's also this googled tidbit: Do most employers pay for jury duty: The answer is no. But, as we mentioned, a few states require employers to pay employees for jury duty. ... Despite few legal requirements for paying employees, 87 percent of employees are offered paid leave for jury duty, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
I'm pretty sure my employer would continue to pay me for the month I was actively serving on a jury.... I know in the distant past a coworker got selected and was out for two weeks (with pay). A friend was on a jury for a week and got paid for the week by her employer. It wasn't "vacation pay" or use of "PTO" - it was some Jury Duty type of code that HR used when 'coding' the income on her pay check. All of my examples are for salaried employees of fairly large employers.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 13, 2019 12:47:18 GMT -5
The many month long or year long trial and an employer paying the employee... leads me to wonder if there are some different tax benefits for the employer. I would think the politicians (and lawyers) would have something that would make it less of a hardship for the employer (to be paying an employee who's not working because of jury duty (aka a civil responsibility). )
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 13, 2019 12:55:27 GMT -5
Yesterday I was summoned to be a juror for Seattle Superior Court. I rode the bus downtown, showed up at 8:30. The court clerks started assigning us to panels. Panel 1 had about 35 jurors. Panel 2 also 35. Panel 3 had 75- and the one I was assigned to. Uh-oh. More potential jurors = bigger or more divisive case. Panel 4, also 35. Sigh. Around 10:30, they called the first 60 jurors from panel 3. I was higher than 60, so I was relieved for a bit. However, around 11:00 they came back and got the rest of us. Boo. The 15 of us file into the court room. It is stacked high with 100+ file boxes. Oh shit, I think. The judge explains that this trial will last until *September* and then asks for people wishing to declare hardships. He indicated there are very few good reasons for hardship and then asked for a raise of hands. About 10 of us raised our cards. Several asked to be excused for a variety of reasons: child care issues, students that can't afford to go without work, going abroad in a few weeks, general "can't afford to miss work" The judge said he had every excuse everyone had ever listed in his database. One guy said he was leaving to teach in Japan September 1. The judge said "That's what you said in 2015!". Well, turns out he's only state side in the summer. and he still has the same job. One guy was saying he needed PT on his leg and couldn't serve - the judge asked him what time his appointments were since the jury would only serve ~9 to 4PM 4 days a week he could find other time to get his PT. I raised my hand and pled hardship: a family vacation last week of August and was excused, but not after being side eyed by the judge. I feel very lucky. I would be so sad to miss/cancel my trip. About half of us got off. Which brings me to my conundrum. Most hourly people can't live on $10 a day (what the court "gives" you). Luckily I'm salary and would still get my paycheck, so is that really isn't a hardship for me. But as we know most people live paycheck to paycheck. Nobody can afford to be reimbursed only 10 bucks a day. Those of us with regular salaried careers: how can anyone be expected to drop everything for over a month on such little notice? My kid's summer camp I booked in February doesn't even start til 8:30. I would have to be in court by then. What about travel, work commitments, etc? I want to take this seriously and I want to serve my civic duty, but HOW? How is this possible? The court has childcare but only for those who are USING the court system, not those SERVING the court system. Pay people minimum wage if they aren't salaried? Too expensive. Allow live streaming or remote back play of the court proceedings to be more flexible? Well, you'd get people not paying attention and easy to question whether you got a fair trial. Get homeless and retired people to serve on juries... except they aren't really my "peers" and homeless folks often have mental or drug addiction issues. I served on a jury before, it was a murder trial and lasted a week. I have NO clue what this month long trial was about, but it must have been serious. Anyways, my real question is how could anyone actually get judged by their peers? We're all too busy and the court system makes it impossible. I was happy to serve for a week, or even (gasp) two... but how do people drop their entire lives for a month or more (years for OJ Simpson ). I dunno. How do we fix this? that's why retired people, or those with state jobs that pay when you aren't there serve on juries.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Aug 13, 2019 13:37:01 GMT -5
The trial I was on was only two weeks but it was a mix of people. Retired, student, nanny, business owners, teachers, work from home, stay at home, unemployed. The judge was tough on people with hardships, but let them all go saying people who don't want to serve made bad jurors. I think being over eager could be bad too so maybe some inconvenience is better for juries.
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Aug 13, 2019 13:39:32 GMT -5
Wow for the pt comment! Our pt place have a 6 week lead time and closes at 5pm. And so do all the others in our country. I know because DH just finished 2 months of it and he had to leave work early. We had to book those spots BEFORE he had the surgery!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 13, 2019 13:53:00 GMT -5
Wow for the pt comment! Our pt place have a 6 week lead time and closes at 5pm. And so do all the others in our country. I know because DH just finished 2 months of it and he had to leave work early. We had to book those spots BEFORE he had the surgery! Mine isn't that bad, but her last appointment is at 3 and I need to book at least 2 weeks in advance, or I wind up on her cancellation list and then it is any time she has available.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Aug 13, 2019 13:53:41 GMT -5
Wow for the pt comment! Our pt place have a 6 week lead time and closes at 5pm. And so do all the others in our country. I know because DH just finished 2 months of it and he had to leave work early. We had to book those spots BEFORE he had the surgery! We have centers which open early and close late to accommodate people. I used to have some of my appointments at 7AM and some of them at 7PM depending on the days I had conference calls in the morning or in the evening. So the judge is not wrong. I guess it just depends on where you live.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 13:58:20 GMT -5
I have only been called once, and that was a few years ago. I called the number on the card and explained that it was the first day of school, and I needed to meet my kiddos. That really isn't a "good" excuse, but it was true. I was excused with no problem. In Alabama they ask you to consider not taking the small amount they offer. The court system needs it more, which I believe. Edited to change "weeks" to "years." I am retired. I have no kiddos.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 13, 2019 14:21:09 GMT -5
For most courts in Washington state, if the time you are called for jury duty is not a good time, you are allowed to go online and reschedule your jury duty. So if you got jury duty for the first week of school as a teacher, you could go in and reschedule it for later in the quarter, but it doesn't actually get you out of jury duty. Because of this, judges tend to be pretty strict about hardship issues. However, because this trial was scheduled to be so long, the judge was probably a little more lenient. You can't generally expect that if you get called the first week of August that you would need to reschedule because of a trip the last week of August. But last time my husband served, a judge did force a woman to cancel her vacation because her flight was the day after her three day call period, and instead of rescheduling her jury duty call period, she thought she could use the trip to get out of serving. Judge said "nope". (This was federal court.) My husband had a traffic court date in the midst of 2nd week of the trial, and the judge's response to that was "My clerk will write you a note. Traffic court will reschedule around me."
While Washington state does not require employers to pay for jury duty, I have never worked for an employer in the Seattle area who did not. And when I served, while my trial was only a couple weeks, no one asked to get out of jury duty for financial reasons, and this was down in the south end, which is a more economically depressed area.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Aug 13, 2019 14:32:17 GMT -5
When I got called for jury duty, my back was injured and I could barely walk. I had to get a Dr. excuse. Park downtown and walk to the court house. Yes, one block was hard. Gave the excuse to the clerk of court. I thought I was done. No. I got an e-mail saying I was excused.
After I got back to the security check in, I remembered the knife I carry on my key grouping. Not a ring. A group. If they saw it, they knew I wasn't an issue.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Aug 13, 2019 14:58:49 GMT -5
For most courts in Washington state, if the time you are called for jury duty is not a good time, you are allowed to go online and reschedule your jury duty. So if you got jury duty for the first week of school as a teacher, you could go in and reschedule it for later in the quarter, but it doesn't actually get you out of jury duty. Because of this, judges tend to be pretty strict about hardship issues. However, because this trial was scheduled to be so long, the judge was probably a little more lenient. You can't generally expect that if you get called the first week of August that you would need to reschedule because of a trip the last week of August. But last time my husband served, a judge did force a woman to cancel her vacation because her flight was the day after her three day call period, and instead of rescheduling her jury duty call period, she thought she could use the trip to get out of serving. Judge said "nope". (This was federal court.) My husband had a traffic court date in the midst of 2nd week of the trial, and the judge's response to that was "My clerk will write you a note. Traffic court will reschedule around me."
While Washington state does not require employers to pay for jury duty, I have never worked for an employer in the Seattle area who did not. And when I served, while my trial was only a couple weeks, no one asked to get out of jury duty for financial reasons, and this was down in the south end, which is a more economically depressed area. I'm sure I would be paid (and if I didn't, it's not a big deal) but my problems are my work schedule (travel) and being a co-parent in the summer when summer camp hours are shit, generally. If I had known ahead of time the potential timeline (a month, rather than a week or two) I would have deferred right away. I honestly had no idea. Now I do.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Aug 13, 2019 14:59:48 GMT -5
I have only been called once, and that was a few weeks ago. I called the number on the card and explained that it was the first day of school, and I needed to meet my kiddos. That really isn't a "good" excuse, but it was true. I was excused with no problem. In Alabama they ask you to consider not taking the small amount they offer. The court system needs it more, which I believe. We could donate our fees to the child care system. Which I would have done, except nobody collected my paper... so I guess I'm paying taxes on that $10!
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 13, 2019 15:08:08 GMT -5
As a non-citizen I cannot serve on a jury but I get a summons pretty regularly. Each time I have to send them a couple of messages telling them that I can't because... Starting about 1.5 years ago I now have to provide a copy of my green card. Must be too many people who have changed status and liked that little excuse too much so now they want proof. Fortunately around the same time the system went on-line and that saves me from actually going out and putting my personal information in the US mail.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 15:17:51 GMT -5
I have never been called. I wish I would because most people that have done it said it was interesting. My job pays for jury duty though. So a two month trial would be awesome. MN pays $20/day though! My job will only pay your wages minus the $20. Cheapskates. LOL
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 13, 2019 15:38:01 GMT -5
I was called about 18 months ago or so.
I had the option of going online if the time was not convenient and rescheduling it, which I did. I could do that once. The first week, per the phone message, I did not have to report. I did have to report the second week. I was surprised that they told us where to park and they would stamp the ticket. I got out of the garage without owing anything.
The judge gave us a stern lecture about excuses. He did not buy many of them. He explained to them they had the option of rescheduling and if they had not already done so, he might give them that option. It was for a 3 day trial.
I was in the court room for the entire jury selection, which took until about 12:30 PM. I was not "in the box". After the first potential jurors in the box were given a synopsis of the case (violation of a restraining order and assault), he asked if that caused issues for anyone. Several people had comments. One woman asked to speak to the judge and attorneys in private. Whatever she said, she left the court room.
A man was excused by the prosecutor because he had been arrested by the police officer who made the arrest.
There was discussion of the #MeToo movement during jury selection. The questions asked by the defense attorney would have gotten me disqualified. It got several women disqualified and I would have been one of them.
When I got home I looked up the name of the defendant. We were not told but the accusor was his ex-wife and the two of them have been going at it for years. This was not the first time he had violated the no contact order.
They were not married long when he was sent to prison on drug charges. From what was in one of the cases, she was left with a low paying job and rented a room. The jerk had sued her for alimony after he got out of prison. He lost that one. He was in prison and she had no money.
He was found guilty. The jury was only out for deliberations about 2 hours. He was sentenced to prison and got the maximum because of his prior convictions.
I am guessing he will harass his ex again when he gets out of prison. The harassment in this case took place at her place of employment so there were witnesses.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 13, 2019 15:40:02 GMT -5
My dad got called for that same jury pool. Yes, my dad with dementia. I called the court. They said there is no way to permanently delete someone who is registered to vote or has a state ID from the jury pool but had me write a letter explaining the situation. He was excused and I was told to write the same letter if he is ever called again.
The judge said he generally will not require anyone over age 80 to serve.
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on Aug 13, 2019 16:16:37 GMT -5
I haven’t been called for jury duty in years. I’m not sure why as I used to get called every couple of years but not any longer. Since I’m retired, I wouldn’t mind serving though.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Aug 13, 2019 16:51:02 GMT -5
I've never been called for jury duty. I have a license, I'm registered to vote, I talk about not getting called for jury duty so I jinx myself and get a summons. No luck yet.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Aug 13, 2019 18:33:02 GMT -5
I served on a jury in LA many years ago and my employer paid full wages minus the amount the court paid. Think it was about 2 weeks.
I've had a call-in jury summons a couple of times since then but haven't had to appear.
Now I think I'm too old - 78
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 13, 2019 18:57:16 GMT -5
I've gotten the summons card a few times, but I've never had to actually show up at the court house. There was just a number to call the night before, and my group number never came up.
My old employer would pay you your regular salary during jury duty, and you'd sign your check from the court over to them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 19:17:02 GMT -5
When I was employed, my employer ordered me to do whatever necessary to get out of jury duty or I would be fired. Yes, I know that illegal, but when you need the check you need the check. I really never had a problem with serving although it took me hours to get there and hours back because I don't drive freeways. I've sat through countless hours in the jury room and served on two, one municipal court and one federal. Municipal was sad; the plaintiff deserved a better lawyer than he had. The three-day federal was worth the pita of transportation and parking because the case was fascinating-fraud including banking, postal and wire. It always cost me a lot more in gas and parking than they paid. I've aged out now.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Aug 13, 2019 19:21:51 GMT -5
I served last year for the first time (age 32). It was an okay experience - I got a lot of reading done while waiting around!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 19:22:55 GMT -5
Never been called and I’m sure this is jinxing me. If I ever had to serve on one I would pretty much end up doing my regular job at night. I doubt I would ever have to serve though, I had a pretty bad experience with the legal system in high school that when described would make the prosecutor toss me off pretty quick.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 13, 2019 19:39:01 GMT -5
Been called to jury duty twice here in Tennessee. First time I was employed and my employer paid me the difference.
The first time there was one potential juror in our group who had the same voice and deep southern drawl as Tallulah Bankhead. She keep telling us all she could not serve because she and husband were going on a cruise. Over and over she told us all. She was actually funny.
We sat all day outside the court room area waiting to be called. Some went into the courtroom and some then left.
Around 5 p.m., the court clerk came to tell us to follow her into the court room. The judge addressed us and told us 11 jurors had been selected and only one more was needed. The judge told us the clerk would call out ten names and one of those ten would be the 12th juror. If our name was not called we were free to leave. So the clerk started naming names. Sure enough Tallulah was named. All of a sudden a loud groan and an "Oh God." It was Tallulah. We all started laughing. Even the judge laughed. And he only laughed because we were laughing. We then left. Never found out if Tullulah served or not
Second time was after I retired. Case was about a lawn maintenance guy suing a doctor because he lost his eye sit from a work-relared accident. While weed whacking, a rock flew up and hit him in the eye. He went to the ER and was treated. The ER doctor told the guy to go to his own doctor the next day or two for follow up treatment. The guy did not go to his own doctor So he lost his sight in the eye for not following up with a doctor. He was suing the ER doctor for loss of eyesight.
I was screened by both party's attorneys. I was asked who I had worked for an what was my role within it. I told them I investigated employee complaints about being treated unfairly by our employer. I had to determine if the employee was responsible for his own predicament or whether or not management treated him/her unfairly.
Not sure which side crossed me off the list of potential jurors. Could have been either side. Thought I might hold their client responsible. Judge told us "See you again in ten years."
While there is no upper age cutoff for jury duty eligibility, most folks seventy and older can be excused fro pretty much any reason. No questions asked. So no more future jury duty for me unless I want to do it.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Aug 13, 2019 19:45:02 GMT -5
Each time I've been called, I had either moved out of the county or the out of the state. The latest time, both my DH and I were called and had moved out of the state between when the notice was received and when we were schedule to serve. We let them know that we had moved out of the state by the time to serve had come. I think it would be interesting to serve though.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Aug 13, 2019 19:45:31 GMT -5
Never been called and I’m sure this is jinxing me. If I ever had to serve on one I would pretty much end up doing my regular job at night. I doubt I would ever have to serve though, I had a pretty bad experience with the legal system in high school that when described would make the prosecutor toss me off pretty quick.We like stories.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 19:57:30 GMT -5
Never been called and I’m sure this is jinxing me. If I ever had to serve on one I would pretty much end up doing my regular job at night. I doubt I would ever have to serve though, I had a pretty bad experience with the legal system in high school that when described would make the prosecutor toss me off pretty quick.We like stories. Long drawn out affair where an aggressive prosecutor charged me with something I didn’t do and it was tossed after a couple years only after filing right to speedy trial. I’d be the screaming embodiment of jury nullification if I were put on a jury
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 13, 2019 22:17:41 GMT -5
I've never been called. I have heard from coworkers that our employer will get us tossed by the defense's lawyers. I think we get paid? It's a leave category in the system where we request time off.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Aug 13, 2019 22:37:32 GMT -5
For those who cannot afford missing pay for jury duty, it is pretty easy to get booted (based on my limited experience). When I got called and put on a panel of 30 or so people, we were asked if we had any family members in prison. About half said they did, no verification they were all dismissed.
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