Mrs. Dinero
Well-Known Member
100% about truth & justice. Always trying to give mercy a chance.
Joined: Dec 28, 2010 17:09:17 GMT -5
Posts: 1,508
|
Post by Mrs. Dinero on Aug 8, 2019 13:04:46 GMT -5
The seemingly impossible happened, DD has several offers to play at the collegiate level. All are full rides except one that covers tuition only. She has yet to visit any of the schools. This obviously is a huge decision that will impact her for life. We were not college athletes nor do we know any. Any advice would be appreciated.
|
|
bookkeeper
Well-Known Member
Joined: Mar 30, 2012 13:40:42 GMT -5
Posts: 1,674
|
Post by bookkeeper on Aug 8, 2019 14:45:03 GMT -5
Ask how many credit hours your daughter must carry each semester to keep that scholarship. College athletes are gone from school quite a bit with travel and competition. Many find it hard to finish more than the minimum full time enrollment, especially during the season of their sport.
Ask a lot of questions and try to get the answers in writing. One thing we found out when our son was awarded a full tuition scholarship, is that the scholarship will not pay for any college level classes already on your transcript. For example, my DS took calculus in high school for college credit. Those advanced placement classes come to your transcript as pass/fail. Scholarships will not pay for relearning previous material or retaking a class to get a better gpa. Full tuition means different things to different people and different institutions.
Very exciting news to have multiple offers! You must be very proud!
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,294
|
Post by swamp on Aug 8, 2019 14:57:30 GMT -5
I did it.
It's hard work but worth it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Mar 28, 2024 7:51:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 15:23:12 GMT -5
I had two offers for basketball and passed, it turned out to be a springboard to much better things. I maybe could have been as good as second sub off the bench but wouldn’t have started and would have had zero shot at the pros.
My dad and grandpa both played college football and I have several friends that did and they all described it as a meat grinder, that if you weren’t a star athlete, you were completely expendable.
I have to say a full ride is very tempting with as expensive as college is now but those are very easy to lose as I understand it and going to school with the athletic expectation is no easy task, it is much more brutal than high school athletics.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,294
|
Post by swamp on Aug 8, 2019 15:30:34 GMT -5
Here is a general schedule for swimming, and I was DIII.
6:00 Morning workout to 7:00. Class. Lunch. 3:00 afternoon practice to 5:00. Dinner, Homework or evening class. Sometimes dryland training before afternoon practice if you didn't have morning practice. You were also encouraged to lift on your own.
Weekends from September to February were meets. Training trip to FL over Christmas break.
However, I found that I got much more done when I was in season because I had to be so organized. Give me a block of free time and I'd screw off.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,357
|
Post by Tiny on Aug 8, 2019 16:31:09 GMT -5
I don't have kids and never went to a 4 year school (as a full time student).
I have friends with kids in college - some who got "full tuition" and one who got a "full ride" - tuition and room and board.
I believe they not only focused on what the kid had to do to keep the benefit - but also considered what would happen if the kid 'lost' or just decided not to pursue the benefits and what those costs would look like when deciding on a school/offer. basically look at both paths the kid might take - with the benefit and costs without the benefits. I think one of my friend's kids opted for a less awesome package - because over all the costs out of pocket would be less if he couldn't maintain the requirements for the package.
I know some of my friends' kids only manage to maintain the benefit for a year or two. Some manage to keep it for the full four years (or more if their degrees take more than the standard 4 years.)
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Mar 28, 2024 7:51:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 17:50:32 GMT -5
Unless you think she seriously has a shot at the professional level, I'd still focus on the academic part and choose the school that is the best fit for what she wants to go into and just look at the sport as a side perk.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Aug 8, 2019 18:22:41 GMT -5
Ask what their 4 and 5 year graduation rates are for athletes from that program. (5 years is pretty common for college athletes because the practice and competition schedules can get in the way of required courses that are offered only at specific times.) Are the scholarships for 4 years or 5 years? Does the school have the major she wants? What is the graduation rate for the school overall? For athletes? For non-athletes? Same questions about graduation rates for her major. How many years does she have to compete? What happens to the scholarship if she is injured and has to sit out the rest of a season? What if she is injured and can't go back to competing at all? What credit load and GPA does she have to maintain? What resources are there available to her as a general student? Are there more resources available to her as an athlete? What does the schedule for her sport at that school look like? (For example, college football starts 8/24. Classes at my University don't start until 9/25. Football players reported to campus for practice last week.)
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 26,956
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 8, 2019 18:50:14 GMT -5
At the college I follow, soccer, volleyball and football have already started. Same conference as Shanendoah's school, but school starts the last week of August.
I know in basketball, players are expected to go to summer school and participate in summer workouts.
Student athlete's in basketball do not get much time off because it's a two semester sport.
Yes, there are practices for other sports in the spring, but not competition except for golf and track/cross country that I can think of.
Of course, my school has the minimum number of sports to be a Division I school.
The daughter of one of my friends was an All American basketball player. The one summer she was not enrolled in school, she rented a room from me. (I don't think that would be allowed now). The only reason she was not in classes was because she was trying out for some USA basketball team, so she was not around much. The athletic department had all kinds of things she was required to do that summer.
As she said, she lived on "Coach XXXX time for 4 years". Her schedule revolved around basketball from the day she arrived on campus until the day she graduated. She graduated in August after completing her 4 years of eligibility and was lucky enough to never have a serious injury in college. That didn't happen until she was playing professionally.
We did have an excellent volleyball player graduate last spring in four years. She earned 3 degrees, two bachelors and an MBA. She got great internships and is now working for a Big 5 accounting firm. For her, athletics was her way of getting a college education without student loans. She says volleyball was a small price to pay. She had a ton of natural talent and never played until 9th grade. She never wanted to play professional. A full ride scholarship was a means to an end for her.
|
|
GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
Senior Associate
"How you win matters." Ender, Ender's Game
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 13:33:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,291
|
Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 8, 2019 21:23:20 GMT -5
ODS plays Division III mens lacrosse. The recruiting process was a grind -- culminating in 4 solid offers from DI, DII, and DIII teams. We considered a multitude of things (in no particular order because it's late and I'm crashing):
Academics: Does the school have the intended major, and enough other majors to choose from in case the student wants to change majors? Is the intended major program strong? Does it have a full selection of courses? Does it have all the necessary facilities one would expect (labs/studios/trading rooms/etc.). Where have recent graduates obtained jobs? What is the potential for internships? Can students double major or add a minor, if so desired? IF the unthinkable happened and the student couldn't play any longer, does he/she see themselves attending that school anyway?
Athletics: Ask the coach about him/herself: playing experience/education/prior coaching positions/length of employment at current position/likelihood of staying put. Ask what a typical student athlete's day looks like -- practice times, team meetings, team meals, off-field training, mandatory study halls, etc. Ask how cooperative the faculty is in the event games and/or travel conflict with class time/exam time/etc. Ask the coach if most players take a reduced load during the season. Ask if players can study abroad/do internships/participate in clubs/orchestra/theater/whatever on campus. Ask what happens if the player becomes injured -- are there on campus services and facilities and staff to help with rehab. Ask -- and this one is important to the final decision -- where and when the coach sees the recruit contributing to the team -- seeing playing time as a freshman or fighting for a spot on the field or holding a reserve spot until older players graduate/use up eligibility/get benched/get hurt. Ask the coach about team funding -- is there strong alumni support or a commercial sponsor? How many players graduate in 4 years? 5 years? Do players room together? Ask about off-season training. Ask about the conference the team plays in -- who are the rival teams? How does the coach see the team performing in the next year or two? What if a player must miss practice/meeting/training/meal/game due to academic obligations? Is there academic support (tutoring, etc.) for student athletes? What gear must the player provide on his or her own?
Have you attended any games in person? What do you think of the coach's coaching style? Have you talked to any of the current players? Had an overnight visit?
ODS is heading off next week for his final year of eligibility. It has been an interesting ride. The coach that recruited him quit the summer before ODS began college. The new coach, who is entering his 4th year in the job, like all college coaches, has both brilliant and less-than-brilliant coaching methods. We've been hands-off -- letting ODS handle any conflicts and issues and allowing him to advocate for himself with advice and guidance from us when sought. It's been a learning process, for sure, with success and frustration in equal measure. But, I must say, when ODS became critically ill during Sophomore year, the coach met him in the emergency room and stayed with him overnight until he was admitted, texting us through the night letting us know how things were going, and closely following ODS' months-long recovery. That kind of genuine care when you're 8 hours from home is one of the best things about playing college sports.
I guess I would say that playing a sport in college is a full-time work-study job, often year-round. It is important that a student athlete understand and consciously accept the commitment required in time, energy, effort, work, and attitude and the sacrifices in the loss of other opportunities on campus. It will be a mix of joy, sorrow, frustration, stress, fun, success, failure, self-doubt, and confidence. Whether or not one has the skills to play professionally isn't really as important as whether one wants to pay for college, even if only pay for part of the cost, by working full-time for 4 years while in college --- by playing a sport he/she HOPEFULLY loves. I'll admit ODS, as much as he LOVES lacrosse and wanted to play for this college in this conference, has had moments when he was ready to walk away. But with just 2 weeks left before he returns to school, he is really looking forward to his last year playing lacrosse competitively. Due to his illness and taking lighter loads during the season, he still has a year and a half of college left to complete his degree, probably at full-price, but thanks to lacrosse his student loan debt is negligible.
Good luck with your own analysis and decision. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
|
|
GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
Senior Associate
"How you win matters." Ender, Ender's Game
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 13:33:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,291
|
Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 8, 2019 21:42:34 GMT -5
One more thing: be very mindful of the passage of time. If you sit on an offer for too long, another recruit might step in and take your daughter's spot. Nothing is final until your daughter signs the offer letter. But, in the meantime, until Signing Day in November, if she makes her decision, she should let the coach know both by phone and email that she is committing to playing at that school. And, she needs to let the other coaches know that she has accepted another offer. We made our son call the other coaches and thank them for their time and explain his reasoning, although I know that some of his friends simply sent a "thanks, but no thanks" email.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 21,147
|
Post by giramomma on Aug 9, 2019 0:54:42 GMT -5
Is there any way you can connect with current student athletes when your daughter visits schools, to get the real scoop on how everything works.
You don't mention the sport, but the more lucrative or "it" sport, the better the treatment/perks the students athletes get..and most of that is pretty hush-hush.
My alma mater is Division I. I ended up taking a class with a kid that eventually was awarded the Heisman trophy. I had no idea he was actually in my class until he showed up to take his final. His tutors showed up to that class pretty religiously...I'm guessing that wasn't the first or last time that happened.
I would also try to figure out the health of the athletic department. When funding was low, some of the lesser sports like baseball, gymnastics, etc. got cut....and those sports have never been brought back..even with a large, steady flow of money these days.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Aug 9, 2019 8:00:56 GMT -5
The first question is to figure out what the "scholarship" is and what it ACTUALLY covers. "Full ride" is typically coach-speak and doesn't always mean the same thing, and depending on the level of the college may be an athletic scholarship or may be something else masquerading as an athletic scholarship (for example, D1 usually means athletic scholarship, D2 usually means partial athletic partial academic, D3 doesn't offer athletic scholarships). So I didn't play in college, I went to a D1 school, but I had offers from local D3 schools that were basically phrased as "we'd like to offer you a full ride scholarship to come play basketball here"...but it was really "you qualify for a full academic scholarship, we can get you here for free, but the reason I'm here talking to you is because I want you to play basketball here". This is potentially VERY important because when I read "the seemingly impossible happened" I hear "she's not a star athlete" and you want to know what will happen if she goes, ends up either hating it or just not playing, and wants to stop being on the team.
::You don't mention the sport, but the more lucrative or "it" sport, the better the treatment/perks the students athletes get..and most of that is pretty hush-hush.::
Let's be open and honest for a moment, it's DD, so there are no real lucrative or "it" sports. And certainly not under the categorization of "the seemingly impossible happened" (i.e., it's not one of the rare schools that has a women's program which has a level of fame, and even then it wouldn't be lucrative most likely).
The #1 thing I would be concerned about (which assumes that without a scholarship she could still go to college) is what she wants to take academically. How does her intended academic focus align with that school's offerings? How does it align with current students on that team and what they're taking (i.e. If she wants to be pre-med and the team is full of basket weaving majors, you can bet there's going to be pressure for her to back off that harder path), and how does her individual academic proficiency align with the athletic schedule (i.e. will it keep her more focused because it is more structured? Or if she's borderline likely to be successful with a complete focus on academics, how will potential travel and all that impact her ability to succeed academically).
|
|
Mrs. Dinero
Well-Known Member
100% about truth & justice. Always trying to give mercy a chance.
Joined: Dec 28, 2010 17:09:17 GMT -5
Posts: 1,508
|
Post by Mrs. Dinero on Aug 9, 2019 8:45:17 GMT -5
Thank you all for taking the time to respond. Plenty to think about. Your suggestions have helped tremendously already.
I used the term “seemingly impossible” because we’ve heard numerous times only 6% will go on to play in college. 1.2% at D1 and 1.2% at D2.
College coaches so far have spelled out what the scholarship means. It cost X to attend school here. We are willing to offer x.
We’ve told her several times this sport doesn’t define you. Definitely will have this discussion again. Is she mentally prepared for a career ending injury or slump/cut? Would she attend without the sport?
Thank you all again.
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 26,956
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 9, 2019 10:16:21 GMT -5
If she decides to pursue the scholarship, I highly recommend that both you and your daughter read the book What Made Maddie Run by Kate Fagan.
It's about the adjustment from high school to college and doesn't have a happy ending. The book caused many DI schools to add mental health counselors to their athletic department. The school I follow now has two mental health counselors available to it's athletes.
I take exception to Hoops and his saying women's athletics are not lucrative. and no "it" sports.
To me, there are "it" sports--the sports I follow at my school are it sports. It doesn't mean the other sports are not important. For me, football is not an it sport but I know it pays the way for all other sports.
If it's your child and they are wanting to play a sport, it's extremely important.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Aug 9, 2019 10:39:50 GMT -5
If she decides to pursue the scholarship, I highly recommend that both you and your daughter read the book What Made Maddie Run by Kate Fagan. It's about the adjustment from high school to college and doesn't have a happy ending. The book caused many DI schools to add mental health counselors to their athletic department. The school I follow now has two mental health counselors available to it's athletes. I take exception to Hoops and his saying women's athletics are not lucrative. and no "it" sports. To me, there are "it" sports--the sports I follow at my school are it sports. It doesn't mean the other sports are not important. For me, football is not an it sport but I know it pays the way for all other sports. If it's your child and they are wanting to play a sport, it's extremely important. Did you read the context of the post I responded to? It was about getting "hush hush" benefits from lucrative and "it" sports. 99% of that is football and men's basketball (and really, it's mostly football). It doesn't mean other sports aren't important to the people playing them, but it certainly means you're probably not participating in a sport which brings those additional issues (very few programs outside of those 2 will be lucrative...since lucrative specifically deals with money/profit, and I would consider an "it" sport to be very limited in that context as well...there are going to be a few programs of volleyball and basketball that would quality). We're not talking about what YOU think is "it"...if you're a badminton aficionado you'd think badminton is an "it" sport...we're talking about what is "it" enough on a large scale to get the kind of significant benefits people have to be "hush hush" about. I welcome you to prove how lucrative women's college athletics are...even at an individual sport level. They just aren't, just like the vast majority of men's college athletics aren't. Quick numbers. The average D1 football program brings in about $31.9million. Men's basketball $8.1million. Women's basketball $1.8million. You'll certainly find some women's basketball and volleyball teams that generate good numbers, but they'll be few and far between (and unlikely to be in play in this particular case). The VAST majority of all college athletes, male or female, do not end up in sports and programs that will be "lucrative" or "it" enough to generate those kinds of side benefits people can't talk about.
|
|
GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
Senior Associate
"How you win matters." Ender, Ender's Game
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 13:33:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,291
|
Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 9, 2019 12:04:12 GMT -5
I’m assuming that, since the coaches are talking with your daughter, she is registered with the NCAA. Make sure you thoroughly understand the process at each Divisional level. What grade is she in in high school? There will be a “quiet” period where only recruits can initiate contact. Know when that is and stay in touch with coaches at schools you’re interested in: “Hi Coach, just a note to share my first quarter grades with you.” “Hey Coach, just a note to let you know I scored 2 goals/20 points/came in first in our meet against hometown rival ABC.” “Hey Coach, I saw your game against XYZCollege on the livestream on Saturday. Congratulations on a hard-fought win.” All if these “touches” let a coach know you are interested and still interested in case another recruit is on his/her radar. It’s a nearly full-time job managing the recruiting process but it can be financially worthwhile.
As Hoops said, ODSis not receiving athletic scholarships at his DIII school. His are strictly merit awards for “leadership”. Whatever. If it cuts the cost of college, I don’t care what you call the award. 😁
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,294
|
Post by swamp on Aug 9, 2019 12:08:21 GMT -5
The first question is to figure out what the "scholarship" is and what it ACTUALLY covers. "Full ride" is typically coach-speak and doesn't always mean the same thing, and depending on the level of the college may be an athletic scholarship or may be something else masquerading as an athletic scholarship (for example, D1 usually means athletic scholarship, D2 usually means partial athletic partial academic, D3 doesn't offer athletic scholarships). So I didn't play in college, I went to a D1 school, but I had offers from local D3 schools that were basically phrased as "we'd like to offer you a full ride scholarship to come play basketball here"...but it was really "you qualify for a full academic scholarship, we can get you here for free, but the reason I'm here talking to you is because I want you to play basketball here". This is potentially VERY important because when I read "the seemingly impossible happened" I hear "she's not a star athlete" and you want to know what will happen if she goes, ends up either hating it or just not playing, and wants to stop being on the team. ::You don't mention the sport, but the more lucrative or "it" sport, the better the treatment/perks the students athletes get..and most of that is pretty hush-hush.:: Let's be open and honest for a moment, it's DD, so there are no real lucrative or "it" sports. And certainly not under the categorization of "the seemingly impossible happened" (i.e., it's not one of the rare schools that has a women's program which has a level of fame, and even then it wouldn't be lucrative most likely). The #1 thing I would be concerned about (which assumes that without a scholarship she could still go to college) is what she wants to take academically. How does her intended academic focus align with that school's offerings? How does it align with current students on that team and what they're taking (i.e. If she wants to be pre-med and the team is full of basket weaving majors, you can bet there's going to be pressure for her to back off that harder path), and how does her individual academic proficiency align with the athletic schedule (i.e. will it keep her more focused because it is more structured? Or if she's borderline likely to be successful with a complete focus on academics, how will potential travel and all that impact her ability to succeed academically). Two words: U Conn.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Aug 9, 2019 12:17:31 GMT -5
The first question is to figure out what the "scholarship" is and what it ACTUALLY covers. "Full ride" is typically coach-speak and doesn't always mean the same thing, and depending on the level of the college may be an athletic scholarship or may be something else masquerading as an athletic scholarship (for example, D1 usually means athletic scholarship, D2 usually means partial athletic partial academic, D3 doesn't offer athletic scholarships). So I didn't play in college, I went to a D1 school, but I had offers from local D3 schools that were basically phrased as "we'd like to offer you a full ride scholarship to come play basketball here"...but it was really "you qualify for a full academic scholarship, we can get you here for free, but the reason I'm here talking to you is because I want you to play basketball here". This is potentially VERY important because when I read "the seemingly impossible happened" I hear "she's not a star athlete" and you want to know what will happen if she goes, ends up either hating it or just not playing, and wants to stop being on the team. ::You don't mention the sport, but the more lucrative or "it" sport, the better the treatment/perks the students athletes get..and most of that is pretty hush-hush.:: Let's be open and honest for a moment, it's DD, so there are no real lucrative or "it" sports. And certainly not under the categorization of "the seemingly impossible happened" (i.e., it's not one of the rare schools that has a women's program which has a level of fame, and even then it wouldn't be lucrative most likely). The #1 thing I would be concerned about (which assumes that without a scholarship she could still go to college) is what she wants to take academically. How does her intended academic focus align with that school's offerings? How does it align with current students on that team and what they're taking (i.e. If she wants to be pre-med and the team is full of basket weaving majors, you can bet there's going to be pressure for her to back off that harder path), and how does her individual academic proficiency align with the athletic schedule (i.e. will it keep her more focused because it is more structured? Or if she's borderline likely to be successful with a complete focus on academics, how will potential travel and all that impact her ability to succeed academically). Two words: U Conn. And to my previous point, if OP's DD was going to the kind of women's program that fit into the "lucrative" or "it" category, them being offered a scholarship wouldn't have been "seemingly impossible"...it would have been completely expected. And even UCONN's women's basketball isn't lucrative, they lost $3 million last year. I would certainly classify it as an "it" program though (but again, there are so few programs outside of men's football that are "it" programs that scholarship offers to those individuals seem to be more likely "expected" than "seemingly impossible"). There's a significant different between a lucrative or "it" SPORT, and a very specific lucrative or "it" PROGRAM in a sport that is neither of those things. I address that in the same paragraph as the text you bolded in the next sentence. So considering your "two word"..."U Conn"...is not a sport. They are a program, which has a level of fame, and even then is not lucrative (though I suspect is more lucrative than the numbers show, since the numbers don't account for a lot of additional things). So you've highlighted the line about a sport-level observation, and countered it with a program-level observation (which I think is correct, but which I acknowledge exists immediately after).
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Aug 9, 2019 12:22:01 GMT -5
I’m assuming that, since the coaches are talking with your daughter, she is registered with the NCAA. Make sure you thoroughly understand the process at each Divisional level. What grade is she in in high school? There will be a “quiet” period where only recruits can initiate contact. Know when that is and stay in touch with coaches at schools you’re interested in: “Hi Coach, just a note to share my first quarter grades with you.” “Hey Coach, just a note to let you know I scored 2 goals/20 points/came in first in our meet against hometown rival ABC.” “Hey Coach, I saw your game against XYZCollege on the livestream on Saturday. Congratulations on a hard-fought win.” All if these “touches” let a coach know you are interested and still interested in case another recruit is on his/her radar. It’s a nearly full-time job managing the recruiting process but it can be financially worthwhile. As Hoops said, ODSis not receiving athletic scholarships at his DIII school. His are strictly merit awards for “leadership”. Whatever. If it cuts the cost of college, I don’t care what you call the award. 😁 If you want to talk college scandal...this kind of thing is a good place to start lol. It's amazing how many D3 schools that can't award athletic scholarships find all kinds of money for "other scholarships" for athletes. My brother barely qualified to get into a school, and then once he met the admissions requirements all of a sudden had enough various scholarships to cover all of his tuition/room/board...all arranged through the D3 basketball program. I suppose scandal might not be the right word, because it's so common and expected now...and it really only impacts NCAA sanction stuff (which is a mess anyways). It's not like that money is going to go to anyone else if they "cleaned it up"...it's just schools getting around NCAA rules.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Mar 28, 2024 7:51:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 12:33:54 GMT -5
So how does it work if you get admitted with an athletic scholarship disguised as a "leadership" one and then end up getting cut or quitting the team? Is the scholarship still good?
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 9, 2019 13:14:45 GMT -5
And to my previous point, if OP's DD was going to the kind of women's program that fit into the "lucrative" or "it" category, them being offered a scholarship wouldn't have been "seemingly impossible"...it would have been completely expected. And even UCONN's women's basketball isn't lucrative, they lost $3 million last year. I would certainly classify it as an "it" program though (but again, there are so few programs outside of men's football that are "it" programs that scholarship offers to those individuals seem to be more likely "expected" than "seemingly impossible"). There's a significant different between a lucrative or "it" SPORT, and a very specific lucrative or "it" PROGRAM in a sport that is neither of those things. I address that in the same paragraph as the text you bolded in the next sentence. So considering your "two word"..."U Conn"...is not a sport. They are a program, which has a level of fame, and even then is not lucrative (though I suspect is more lucrative than the numbers show, since the numbers don't account for a lot of additional things). So you've highlighted the line about a sport-level observation, and countered it with a program-level observation (which I think is correct, but which I acknowledge exists immediately after). Egads. Why continue to have a sports program that is losing that kind of money? And we wonder why college is so expensive anymore...
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Aug 9, 2019 13:26:49 GMT -5
And to my previous point, if OP's DD was going to the kind of women's program that fit into the "lucrative" or "it" category, them being offered a scholarship wouldn't have been "seemingly impossible"...it would have been completely expected. And even UCONN's women's basketball isn't lucrative, they lost $3 million last year. I would certainly classify it as an "it" program though (but again, there are so few programs outside of men's football that are "it" programs that scholarship offers to those individuals seem to be more likely "expected" than "seemingly impossible"). There's a significant different between a lucrative or "it" SPORT, and a very specific lucrative or "it" PROGRAM in a sport that is neither of those things. I address that in the same paragraph as the text you bolded in the next sentence. So considering your "two word"..."U Conn"...is not a sport. They are a program, which has a level of fame, and even then is not lucrative (though I suspect is more lucrative than the numbers show, since the numbers don't account for a lot of additional things). So you've highlighted the line about a sport-level observation, and countered it with a program-level observation (which I think is correct, but which I acknowledge exists immediately after). Egads. Why continue to have a sports program that is losing that kind of money? And we wonder why college is so expensive anymore... Several reasons. 1. You have to have a substantially equal number of men's and women's athletes. So if you want the lucrative football, you've got to offset that with a lot of women's sports since football is a big team, most of which are going to lose money as do most other men's sports. 2. To my point of "more lucrative than the numbers show", as is the case for lots of men's football and basketball programs...being good may not be financially lucrative for the program itself, but it helps bring in boosters who contribute to the school, the athletic department, give gifts like training facilities, etc. 3. It brings eyeballs to your school, which helps with getting admissions (because as odd as it may sound to some folks, kids like going to schools who have a sports program they can be excited about).
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Aug 9, 2019 13:27:39 GMT -5
So how does it work if you get admitted with an athletic scholarship disguised as a "leadership" one and then end up getting cut or quitting the team? Is the scholarship still good? Yes, for that year it is still good.
|
|
murphath
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 16:12:33 GMT -5
Posts: 1,981
|
Post by murphath on Aug 9, 2019 22:33:30 GMT -5
My daughter played collegiate basketball on scholarship. It is a full time job. That's the best way to describe it. Even when there are no games, they are taking conditioning classes, weightlifting etc. She had to take final exams while travelling (the athletic trainer usually served as a proctor). But the professor had to agree and believe me, some of them have no love for sports (especially for female athletes). Forget having them home at Christmas (maybe a day or two) as that's tournament time. It's a serious commitment. I would also ask what the school's policy is if your daughter has a career ending injury after her freshman/sophomore/junior year? Will they honor the scholarship? Most schools will NOT.
DD took classes in summer (not at 4 year school but at a community college here so she could come home). It really was necessary in order for her to graduate in a timely manner. She was a biology major with an eye to attend medical school. Because of basketball, she really had no time to prepare for the MCAT in order to enter med school right after college graduation. This limited the schools she could apply to because she used the summer to prepare for the MCAT and then took the last available one (August for entry the following August). In the end it all worked out and she is now an attending anesthesiologist.
Why did she continue to play basketball in college? The scholarship was nice but truth be known she would have played without it. She LOVED LOVED LOVED basketball. She would have played in medical school if they had a team. She still plays in a rec league. Why am I adding this info: because she made it all work because she loved the sport. If the sport was simply a means to get a scholarship, I don't think the result would have been the same. Does that make sense? I know I couldn't have done it. It really is not easy.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Aug 9, 2019 23:08:08 GMT -5
My daughter played collegiate basketball on scholarship. It is a full time job. That's the best way to describe it. Even when there are no games, they are taking conditioning classes, weightlifting etc. She had to take final exams while travelling (the athletic trainer usually served as a proctor). But the professor had to agree and believe me, some of them have no love for sports (especially for female athletes). Forget having them home at Christmas (maybe a day or two) as that's tournament time. It's a serious commitment. I would also ask what the school's policy is if your daughter has a career ending injury after her freshman/sophomore/junior year? Will they honor the scholarship? Most schools will NOT.DD took classes in summer (not at 4 year school but at a community college here so she could come home). It really was necessary in order for her to graduate in a timely manner. She was a biology major with an eye to attend medical school. Because of basketball, she really had no time to prepare for the MCAT in order to enter med school right after college graduation. This limited the schools she could apply to because she used the summer to prepare for the MCAT and then took the last available one (August for entry the following August). In the end it all worked out and she is now an attending anesthesiologist. Why did she continue to play basketball in college? The scholarship was nice but truth be known she would have played without it. She LOVED LOVED LOVED basketball. She would have played in medical school if they had a team. She still plays in a rec league. Why am I adding this info: because she made it all work because she loved the sport. If the sport was simply a means to get a scholarship, I don't think the result would have been the same. Does that make sense? I know I couldn't have done it. It really is not easy. Yeah, almost no school is going to honor an athletic scholarship if something seriously happens. They only GET to give out so many scholarships, they can't afford to have people on scholarship who won't play (though in most cases there's a lot more that can be a season-ending injury than knowing it's career-ending...they're not likely to pull the scholarship if you can get a redshirt year to try to come back). Any decent school though will then work to get other assistance to the student once they know that person will never be in the sport again.
|
|
Regis
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 12:26:50 GMT -5
Posts: 1,414
|
Post by Regis on Aug 12, 2019 13:23:56 GMT -5
First of all, congrats to your daughter for putting in the time an effort to put herself in this position.
There's always a trade-off and you'll need to help your daughter determine if it's work it in the end. For example, my son and a family friend both wanted to possibly play football in college. My son was D2 level, the other young man was high D1. My son wanted to pursue a doctorate in Physical Therapy at the time and thought his best route was through an undergraduate degree in athletic training. He was told he'd either have to get a degree in exercise science or plan on being there for five years as he wouldn't be able to complete the clinical assignments and play football at the same time. He opted to not play football - and as a side note ended up not pursuing the DPT degree but completed a BS in Athletic Training and an MS in Kinesiology. He's doing what he loves as an athletic trainer at a D1 school currently. He has no regrets.
The other young man wanted to get an engineering degree but was told that it would be nearly impossible with the rigors of football so he decided on communications as a major. He finished his degree in 3.5 years while starting as a middle linebacker at a major D1 school. Since he was done with school, he focused on training for a shot at the NFL. While he was not invited to the combine, he did work out for several teams but went undrafted. He was invited to OTA's by a team and ended up on the practice squad - which lasted a little less than two weeks before he was cut. He was not picked up by another team and has now given up on the NFL. He still has no regrets in giving the NFL a shot but is not where he wants to be in a life career because he had to compromise his college major to take that shot.
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,702
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 12, 2019 13:35:18 GMT -5
And to my previous point, if OP's DD was going to the kind of women's program that fit into the "lucrative" or "it" category, them being offered a scholarship wouldn't have been "seemingly impossible"...it would have been completely expected. And even UCONN's women's basketball isn't lucrative, they lost $3 million last year. I would certainly classify it as an "it" program though (but again, there are so few programs outside of men's football that are "it" programs that scholarship offers to those individuals seem to be more likely "expected" than "seemingly impossible"). There's a significant different between a lucrative or "it" SPORT, and a very specific lucrative or "it" PROGRAM in a sport that is neither of those things. I address that in the same paragraph as the text you bolded in the next sentence. So considering your "two word"..."U Conn"...is not a sport. They are a program, which has a level of fame, and even then is not lucrative (though I suspect is more lucrative than the numbers show, since the numbers don't account for a lot of additional things). So you've highlighted the line about a sport-level observation, and countered it with a program-level observation (which I think is correct, but which I acknowledge exists immediately after). Egads. Why continue to have a sports program that is losing that kind of money? And we wonder why college is so expensive anymore...
Title IX It would be more expensive to not have it.
|
|
gs11rmb
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 12:43:39 GMT -5
Posts: 3,298
|
Post by gs11rmb on Aug 12, 2019 13:37:30 GMT -5
Egads. Why continue to have a sports program that is losing that kind of money? And we wonder why college is so expensive anymore...
Title IX It would be more expensive to not have it. Why? I like that women have the opportunity to play but I'm curious why it would be more expensive.
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,702
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 12, 2019 13:39:31 GMT -5
Title IX It would be more expensive to not have it. Why? I like that women have the opportunity to pay but I'm curious why it would be more expensive. The college would either have to give up the men's equivalent (which is what garners the profit) or the college would be sued under federal law and it would cost them the net losses described above or even more.
|
|