djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 13:38:41 GMT -5
but he will appeal to you and get your vote. and insodoing, he will lose mine. No, yours was never there to lose.
sure it was. i didn't vote for either of those candidates.
Trump could EASILY have won my vote, phil. EASILY: by being the first mainstream candidate in a generation to advocate non-interventionism. and to do it in a clear, articulate, well considered way.
so, please- stop making assertions about what i think, and how i vote. i was a registered Republican in November, 2016. my vote was Trump's to lose.
he lost it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 13:40:53 GMT -5
So many? Lol! How many, exactly? Do not include the frail and elderly Snowbirds who live there half the year who tend to get sick, because they come for the warmth, not the healthcare. Are you going to answer the question, Old Coyote? How many is "so many"? You just seem to be regurgitating the crap the right wing spoon-feeds you, without having the wherewithal to check for yourself or doing a lick of research. You're a parrot. Want a cracker? you posted a pie chart, weltz. it is significantly less than 1% of all healthcare in Canada, which has what? 10% of our population?
we are talking about something on the order of 100,000 people who have undertaken specialty care in the US. i would guess that the number is just as great for, say, France.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 30, 2019 13:44:47 GMT -5
Are you going to answer the question, Old Coyote? How many is "so many"? You just seem to be regurgitating the crap the right wing spoon-feeds you, without having the wherewithal to check for yourself or doing a lick of research. You're a parrot. Want a cracker? you posted a pie chart, weltz. it is significantly less than 1% of all healthcare in Canada, which has what? 10% of our population?
we are talking about something on the order of 100,000 people who have undertaken specialty care in the US. i would guess that the number is just as great for, say, France.
Yes, it's significantly less than 1%. That's not a lot of people. I want to know why OC said "so many people". Never mind. I know why. He can't think for himself.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 13:52:12 GMT -5
you posted a pie chart, weltz. it is significantly less than 1% of all healthcare in Canada, which has what? 10% of our population?
we are talking about something on the order of 100,000 people who have undertaken specialty care in the US. i would guess that the number is just as great for, say, France.
Yes, it's significantly less than 1%. That's not a lot of people. I want to know why OC said "so many people". Never mind. I know why. He can't think for himself. maybe. or he simply believes the stuff he hears.
many are guilty of that, including quite a few on the left.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 30, 2019 13:54:39 GMT -5
Yes, it's significantly less than 1%. That's not a lot of people. I want to know why OC said "so many people". Never mind. I know why. He can't think for himself. maybe. or he simply believes the stuff he hears.
many are guilty of that, including quite a few on the left.
Eactly! Believes what he hears, without doing any fact checking. That's called being gullible and not thinking for yourself.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 30, 2019 14:00:32 GMT -5
So many? Lol! How many, exactly? Do not include the frail and elderly Snowbirds who live there half the year who tend to get sick, because they come for the warmth, not the healthcare. Are you going to answer the question, Old Coyote? How many is "so many"? You just seem to be regurgitating the crap the right wing spoon-feeds you, without having the wherewithal to check for yourself or doing a lick of research. You're a parrot. Want a cracker? He often fails in crunch time.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 14:10:36 GMT -5
maybe. or he simply believes the stuff he hears.
many are guilty of that, including quite a few on the left.
Eactly! Believes what he hears, without doing any fact checking. That's called being gullible and not thinking for yourself. i'll go with the fact checking part, but not the gullibility.
people have belief systems. for a variety of reasons.
for example, i believe that human beings are fundamentally social creatures that have natural empathy and compassion for one another. it informs MANY of my positions. until it can be shown to me that there is overwhelming proof that my positions are wrong, i am disinclined to believe otherwise. other people are survivalists that think humans are selfish and backstabbing. it informs THEIR positions, and it will take overwhelming evidence to prove to them otherwise. sometimes it is more a matter of time than gullibility.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jul 30, 2019 14:37:16 GMT -5
I just read a story where 29 percent of Canadians are having trouble with their health care. Mainly wait times and access to dr's. That is over a 1/4 of the population who are not getting treated when needed. Maybe they are happy with that since they don't have to pay out of pocket. I'd rather pay and get seen when i need or want.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 14:57:13 GMT -5
I just read a story where 29 percent of Canadians are having trouble with their health care. Mainly wait times and access to dr's. That is over a 1/4 of the population who are not getting treated when needed. Maybe they are happy with that since they don't have to pay out of pocket. I'd rather pay and get seen when i need or want. the Canadian system is not a suitable substitute for the US system for a number of reasons.
it is also not ranked in the top 30 of healthcare systems worldwide.
so, again, I ask: why should we settle for the 37th best healthcare system at 2x the cost?
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 30, 2019 15:11:09 GMT -5
I just read a story where 29 percent of Canadians are having trouble with their health care. Mainly wait times and access to dr's. That is over a 1/4 of the population who are not getting treated when needed. Maybe they are happy with that since they don't have to pay out of pocket. I'd rather pay and get seen when i need or want. You support 47 million Americans not having any health insurance at all. So why wax poetic about some other country whose system is way better and cheaper than our own?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 15:16:01 GMT -5
I just read a story where 29 percent of Canadians are having trouble with their health care. Mainly wait times and access to dr's. That is over a 1/4 of the population who are not getting treated when needed. Maybe they are happy with that since they don't have to pay out of pocket. I'd rather pay and get seen when i need or want. You support 47 million Americans not having any health insurance at all. So why wax poetic about some other country whose system is way better and cheaper than our own? I get why politicians use Canada as an example of what to do, but I think it is a political convenience bourne of latent nationalism (we don't see Canadians as terribly different than ourselves, but we do see Europeans that way, and we resent them for it).
a better comparison would be to the healthcare systems of France and Italy which are vastly superior by pretty much every measure, including cost.
when you point to something like maternal care, people just stare at you in stunned disbelief. in France, you get something like 6 months of paid maternity leave, FOLLOWED BY a government nanny for another 6 months to provide FREE childcare while you work your way back into your job. it is such an incredible benefit, that most women here would KILL for, that most people simply don't believe it exists, and that the cost of that and MANY OTHER benefits is less than half of what we pay (for even less benefit) in the US.
it is fucking ridiculous that we don't want more for ourselves, and would rather give it away to the 1%, but that is where we are.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 30, 2019 16:58:06 GMT -5
I just read a story where 29 percent of Canadians are having trouble with their health care. Mainly wait times and access to dr's. That is over a 1/4 of the population who are not getting treated when needed. Maybe they are happy with that since they don't have to pay out of pocket. I'd rather pay and get seen when i need or want. ...and yet, Canadians are overwhelmingly satisfied with their health care, and would NEVER go back to the old insurance system like yours, not in a million years. Been there, done that. Anyone can see a doctor anytime. That's what clinics and CLSCs are for, if you don't have a GP. I have a GP, but often prefer to go to the clinic to see a doctor the same day.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 19:07:12 GMT -5
I have visited the clinics twice. once in the US (a private non-profit) and once in Mexico.
they are a very efficient way of servicing general healthcare. why people feel they need the equivalent of a ***** hotel when they have a minor ache is beyond me. in one case, it was a checkup. in the other (Mexico) it was because my travel companion was violently ill. in both cases, it cost less than $50, and there was less wait than in the US.
people here are stupid about medical care because they don't know what great care looks like, nor do they know what it costs.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jul 30, 2019 19:46:50 GMT -5
I just read a story where 29 percent of Canadians are having trouble with their health care. Mainly wait times and access to dr's. That is over a 1/4 of the population who are not getting treated when needed. Maybe they are happy with that since they don't have to pay out of pocket. I'd rather pay and get seen when i need or want. ...and yet, Canadians are overwhelmingly satisfied with their health care, and would NEVER go back to the old insurance system like yours, not in a million years. Been there, done that. Anyone can see a doctor anytime. That's what clinics and CLSCs are for, if you don't have a GP. I have a GP, but often prefer to go to the clinic to see a doctor the same day. Clinics are fine for those who don't mind them, myself I feel that if I need to go to the Dr. I would rather go to my personal physician. The one that knows my history and me. Then again I'm old school. BTW.. I never had to wait 24 hrs to see him.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jul 30, 2019 19:51:39 GMT -5
I just read a story where 29 percent of Canadians are having trouble with their health care. Mainly wait times and access to dr's. That is over a 1/4 of the population who are not getting treated when needed. Maybe they are happy with that since they don't have to pay out of pocket. I'd rather pay and get seen when i need or want. You support 47 million Americans not having any health insurance at all. So why wax poetic about some other country whose system is way better and cheaper than our own? I never said that...I support people paying for their own and not getting a free ride. The way you state it is just like how the fake news in msm hits their headlines. If you feel waiting for a dr or not being able to talk to one is better by all means go for it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 19:59:51 GMT -5
You support 47 million Americans not having any health insurance at all. So why wax poetic about some other country whose system is way better and cheaper than our own? I never said that...I support people paying for their own and not getting a free ride. The way you state it is just like how the fake news in msm hits their headlines. If you feel waiting for a dr or not being able to talk to one is better by all means go for it. but that is exactly what the EMTALA did in 1986- it gave people a free ride.
what the ACA did was require everyone to pay.
so, the stubborn insistence that the ACA be repealed actually returns us to socialized medicine. it is really strange to me that Republicans don't get behind it, for that reason.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jul 30, 2019 20:16:32 GMT -5
I never said that...I support people paying for their own and not getting a free ride. The way you state it is just like how the fake news in msm hits their headlines. If you feel waiting for a dr or not being able to talk to one is better by all means go for it. but that is exactly what the EMTALA did in 1986- it gave people a free ride.
what the ACA did was require everyone to pay.
so, the stubborn insistence that the ACA be repealed actually returns us to socialized medicine. it is really strange to me that Republicans don't get behind it, for that reason.
Did it thou...without looking it up I thought that was a hospital could not turn someone away regardless if they could pay or not.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 20:19:30 GMT -5
but that is exactly what the EMTALA did in 1986- it gave people a free ride.
what the ACA did was require everyone to pay.
so, the stubborn insistence that the ACA be repealed actually returns us to socialized medicine. it is really strange to me that Republicans don't get behind it, for that reason.
Did it thou...without looking it up I thought that was a hospital could not turn someone away regardless if they could pay or not. that was not the case before 1986. EMTALA changed that.
what the ACA did was made it impossible for ANYONE to avoid paying for insurance (universal mandate).
so, what we have now is the same socialized medicine we have had for most of the last 3 decades.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jul 30, 2019 20:25:23 GMT -5
Did it thou...without looking it up I thought that was a hospital could not turn someone away regardless if they could pay or not. that was not the case before 1986. EMTALA changed that.
what the ACA did was made it impossible for ANYONE to avoid paying for insurance (universal mandate).
so, what we have now is the same socialized medicine we have had for most of the last 3 decades.
Understood, how can you even compare the 2...I don't see the connection. The one states a hospital has to treat you Wichita will mean the hospital rates will go up. The other forces everyone to buy ins mostly crap ins or fine you. The people who could afford ins loses. ACA is horrible
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 20:31:59 GMT -5
that was not the case before 1986. EMTALA changed that.
what the ACA did was made it impossible for ANYONE to avoid paying for insurance (universal mandate).
so, what we have now is the same socialized medicine we have had for most of the last 3 decades.
Understood, how can you even compare the 2...I don't see the connection. The one states a hospital has to treat you Wichita will mean the hospital rates will go up. The other forces everyone to buy ins mostly crap ins or fine you. The people who could afford ins loses. that is the state of affairs without the ACA. the burden of cost is ALWAYS passed onto those that own insurance. WE pay for those that are not insured. what the ACA requires is that EVERYONE owns insurance. therefore the burden goes to EVERYONE.
so, you are claiming the ACA is terrible, but not having it, or something like it, is, in fact, worse.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Jul 30, 2019 20:34:40 GMT -5
My DH just called & made an appt. for me with a spinal specialist...this morning...wait time?...6 wks. for this one. And it is just basically a consultation to figure out what he needs in order to figure out what needs to be done.
Other Dr.s may take 4-6 mos. to get an appt. here in the US. So we have wait times here too.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Jul 30, 2019 20:36:59 GMT -5
DJ, so many folks just don't understand how insurance works. Thank goodness I understand it & have for many years.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 20:41:45 GMT -5
My DH just called & made an appt. for me with a spinal specialist...this morning...wait time?...6 wks. for this one. And it is just basically a consultation to figure out what he needs in order to figure out what needs to be done. Other Dr.s may take 4-6 mos. to get an appt. here in the US. So we have wait times here too. ....at twice (or more) the cost of every other country.....
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 20:44:21 GMT -5
DJ, so many folks just don't understand how insurance works. Thank goodness I understand it & have for many years. the ACA makes sense. that is why the Heritage Foundation came up with it shortly after Reagan socialized medicine. they were very unhappy with the law, and what it would reap (massively higher insurance rates). and that is, in fact, what happened. Romney adopted the ideas when he implemented a similar law in MA.
it is just silly for the GOP to oppose this law. it MANDATES private insurance. what could be more "capitalist" than that?
note: I HATE this aspect of the ACA (that it is private insurance). so did the courts, apparently.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 20:46:17 GMT -5
here is something I don't get.
why don't Democrats EVER point out how unfair it is to have uninsured people determining the cost of insurance?
I can't remember that argument EVER being made. but it is totally sensible, and quite conservative.
it is WHY we require insurance for drivers in all (50) states. because almost everyone drives.
well, shit people, EVERYONE HAS SOME SORT OF HEALTH, TOO.
qed
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 30, 2019 21:09:29 GMT -5
You support 47 million Americans not having any health insurance at all. So why wax poetic about some other country whose system is way better and cheaper than our own? I never said that...I support people paying for their own and not getting a free ride. The way you state it is just like how the fake news in msm hits their headlines. If you feel waiting for a dr or not being able to talk to one is better by all means go for it. Once again you just don’t get it. You oppose, quite vociferously, the ACA and wish it to be eradicated. Once that is done we are back to having 47 million uninsured. That is exactly what you want. With that comes the 47,000 annual deaths and I believe you read that study. Even commented that it was too old. But it simply came just before the ACA. Those deaths plummeted. I keep waiting for pro-life people to be supportive of that, but alas. Also what will return are massive medical bancos wiping people out, and bancos of clinics, doctors, and hospitals that provide unpaid care because of people like you being resistant to something better. So thanks for being such a cool Repo-Con that supports f’ing people over while belonging to the party that has done squat doodly in the last 20 years. Your cult leader lied to everyone that he would come up with something better. HAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Post by OldCoyote on Jul 30, 2019 22:38:07 GMT -5
I just read a story where 29 percent of Canadians are having trouble with their health care. Mainly wait times and access to dr's. That is over a 1/4 of the population who are not getting treated when needed. Maybe they are happy with that since they don't have to pay out of pocket. I'd rather pay and get seen when i need or want. You support 47 million Americans not having any health insurance at all. So why wax poetic about some other country whose system is way better and cheaper than our own? How about all those that pay in every month, but can't see a Dr. because they can not afford the deductible??
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jul 30, 2019 22:41:13 GMT -5
but that is exactly what the EMTALA did in 1986- it gave people a free ride.
what the ACA did was require everyone to pay.
so, the stubborn insistence that the ACA be repealed actually returns us to socialized medicine. it is really strange to me that Republicans don't get behind it, for that reason.
Did it thou...without looking it up I thought that was a hospital could not turn someone away regardless if they could pay or not. I was sitting in a hospital waiting room when a couple of men took so old lady out of a wheel chair,
carried her out to the drive for ambulances , left her crying on the ground!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 22:45:35 GMT -5
You support 47 million Americans not having any health insurance at all. So why wax poetic about some other country whose system is way better and cheaper than our own? How about all those that pay in every month, but can't see a Dr. because they can not afford the deductible?? good reason for medicare for all.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jul 30, 2019 22:49:00 GMT -5
Are you going to answer the question, Old Coyote? How many is "so many"? You just seem to be regurgitating the crap the right wing spoon-feeds you, without having the wherewithal to check for yourself or doing a lick of research. You're a parrot. Want a cracker? He often fails in crunch time. Holy cow there was a huge debate here a couple of months ago about the Canadian health system,,
The loooonnnnggg wait times for some things, how it was much worse in some than others. And it was the Canadian posters that were posting it!!!
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