djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 74,870
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 26, 2019 19:52:15 GMT -5
Mexico is a pit, imo. Brazil is the other developed nation. recently taken over by a neo-fascist.
so, no comment about Finland?
It is not in the Americas. right. so you are saying that successful educational models only exist in Europe?
are you saying that we are so pathetic and corrupt that we can't compare to them?
why do you want to compare the US ONLY to developing nations? is it because we can't compete with developed ones?
I am really not following the logic here.
help me understand.
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Jul 26, 2019 19:52:56 GMT -5
Again DJ you are really naïve to think that going to college has anything whatsoever to do with expanding your mind. The fact that a liberal arts degree does not result in a nimble mind, critical thinking etc. has kept me employed for the last 25 years. Though I think a good argument could be made for keeping community college free or nearly free, expanding online offerings so that kids Rural areas can get an education while living at home, and making sure the top 10% of high school students get a full academic scholarship. it sounds like we are in perfect agreement, with that one small edit, frm.
let me ask you something. we have been posting together for MANY years. do you REALLY think me naiive?
college is an opportunity to expand your mind. that is absolutely unquestionable. nobody I know who went to college came out less educated than they went in. nobody. zero. zip.
so, to claim those things are unrelated is both illogical, and verifiably false. do you want me to show you MORE evidence? because I can. all you have to do is look at level of education -vs- belief things that are either verifiably false, or have no evidence whatsoever. going to college is an assault on belief, which is ANOTHER reason why it is declining in the US. BELIEF is winning here, and REASON is dying. and yes, that latter statement is MY OPINON.
if you think I am naiive, PROVE ME WRONG. otherwise, I see no reason to not dismiss your opinion, because it is only that.
Let's just say, You wear blinders!
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Jul 26, 2019 19:54:27 GMT -5
In Venezuela,, they disarmed them first, took their guns away. It is the police and the army that is gunning down their unarmed citizens.
right, and here we have armed citizens who are regularly gunned down by police.
help me understand how that is better.
Are you coming around to My way of thinking about police shootings?
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Jul 26, 2019 20:00:29 GMT -5
Let's think about this a second. In 1996 Venezuela, the third or fourth richest Country in the Americas. Free education. Free health care
Where is Venezuela today??
Canada heavily subsidizes its education and has "free" health care. Where is Canada today? Kicking your ass in education, and healthcare which is half the cost of yours, with similar outcomes. Your point? Yep, that is why so many Canadians come to the U.S. for their health care!
|
|
dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
|
Post by dondub on Jul 26, 2019 20:12:47 GMT -5
They have the best of both worlds and with that half cost....
|
|
dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
|
Post by dondub on Jul 26, 2019 20:13:28 GMT -5
They have the best of both worlds and with that half cost....
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 74,870
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 26, 2019 20:22:25 GMT -5
it sounds like we are in perfect agreement, with that one small edit, frm.
let me ask you something. we have been posting together for MANY years. do you REALLY think me naiive?
college is an opportunity to expand your mind. that is absolutely unquestionable. nobody I know who went to college came out less educated than they went in. nobody. zero. zip.
so, to claim those things are unrelated is both illogical, and verifiably false. do you want me to show you MORE evidence? because I can. all you have to do is look at level of education -vs- belief things that are either verifiably false, or have no evidence whatsoever. going to college is an assault on belief, which is ANOTHER reason why it is declining in the US. BELIEF is winning here, and REASON is dying. and yes, that latter statement is MY OPINON.
if you think I am naiive, PROVE ME WRONG. otherwise, I see no reason to not dismiss your opinion, because it is only that.
Let's just say, You wear blinders! I already said that I can PROVE that ignorance of facts is inversely related to level of education. have you got, other than ad hominem attacks?
nothing. that's what. opinions without any basis in fact. I am not blind to that.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 74,870
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 26, 2019 20:24:35 GMT -5
Canada heavily subsidizes its education and has "free" health care. Where is Canada today? Kicking your ass in education, and healthcare which is half the cost of yours, with similar outcomes. Your point? Yep, that is why so many Canadians come to the U.S. for their health care! because they don't have a dual healthcare system, like ALL of the top 36 in the world.
why are you satisfied being 37th at 2x the cost?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 74,870
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 26, 2019 20:25:50 GMT -5
right, and here we have armed citizens who are regularly gunned down by police.
help me understand how that is better.
Are you coming around to My way of thinking about police shootings? yfkm?
do you have any idea how anti-authoritarian I am, oc?
it is the ONE issue upon which you can rely on my COMPLETED and UNBRIDALED support.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,327
|
Post by thyme4change on Jul 26, 2019 21:20:53 GMT -5
did you not see where I said it should be tuition free?
it should be tuition free.
Let's think about this a second. In 1996 Venezuela, the third or fourth richest Country in the Americas. Free education. Free health care
Where is Venezuela today??
Your grasp on what happened to that country is lacking.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jul 26, 2019 23:17:37 GMT -5
Canada heavily subsidizes its education and has "free" health care. Where is Canada today? Kicking your ass in education, and healthcare which is half the cost of yours, with similar outcomes. Your point? Yep, that is why so many Canadians come to the U.S. for their health care! So many? Lol! How many, exactly? Do not include the frail and elderly Snowbirds who live there half the year who tend to get sick, because they come for the warmth, not the healthcare.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jul 26, 2019 23:21:28 GMT -5
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,327
|
Post by thyme4change on Jul 27, 2019 0:11:14 GMT -5
As my husband always says....Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,104
|
Post by tallguy on Jul 27, 2019 0:22:50 GMT -5
As my husband always says....Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. If only it were a better story....
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 27, 2019 2:41:47 GMT -5
Again DJ you are really naïve to think that going to college has anything whatsoever to do with expanding your mind. The fact that a liberal arts degree does not result in a nimble mind, critical thinking etc. has kept me employed for the last 25 years. Though I think a good argument could be made for keeping community college free or nearly free, expanding online offerings so that kids Rural areas can get an education while living at home, and making sure the top 10% of high school students get a full academic scholarship. it sounds like we are in perfect agreement, with that one small edit, frm.
let me ask you something. we have been posting together for MANY years. do you REALLY think me naiive?
college is an opportunity to expand your mind. that is absolutely unquestionable. nobody I know who went to college came out less educated than they went in. nobody. zero. zip.
so, to claim those things are unrelated is both illogical, and verifiably false. do you want me to show you MORE evidence? because I can. all you have to do is look at level of education -vs- belief things that are either verifiably false, or have no evidence whatsoever. going to college is an assault on belief, which is ANOTHER reason why it is declining in the US. BELIEF is winning here, and REASON is dying. and yes, that latter statement is MY OPINON.
if you think I am naiive, PROVE ME WRONG. otherwise, I see no reason to not dismiss your opinion, because it is only that.
DJ, in the corporate world, it is as common as dirt to see people who haven't cracked a book in years spending a significant part of every week manually performing the kind of repetitive tasks that they could have their computers do automatically. This isn't happening because they don't have the tools to automate the boring stuff. THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO LEARN ANYTHING NEW. These people all had college degrees, and this attitude was just as common in the under 30 set. Even when the company was having layoffs every couple of years. Even when the economy was in the tank. They would rather risk loosing their livelihoods than educate themselves. Having gotten a free ride at a less exclusive school, this didn't surprise me. A lot of kids in college aren't there to get an education. They are there to get a piece of paper. I was teaching college students elementary school math in a non-remedial class. An English professor I knew was teaching them how to diagram sentences, since half of her classes didn't have the foggiest clue how the English language was structured. These kind of students would not have been admitted to college in previous generations. They had no background, no love of learning, and no study skills. And while they were probably slightly less ignorant after 4 years of college (I'll give you that), I doubt many of them would end up being much smarter than the credentialed idiots I've met in the corporate world. College is an opportunity to expand your mind. It does not guarantee it. And no matter who is paying for it, 4 years worth of time, tuition, room and board is a to spend on someone who is not academically inclined. There's different kinds of smart. The incompetent cube drone may have been a genius mechanic if college had not been shoved down his throat.
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Jul 27, 2019 8:25:58 GMT -5
Are you coming around to My way of thinking about police shootings? yfkm?
do you have any idea how anti-authoritarian I am, oc?
it is the ONE issue upon which you can rely on my COMPLETED and UNBRIDALED support.
Well thank DJ,, I did not realize that.
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Jul 27, 2019 8:38:45 GMT -5
That's because most Canadians can not afford, Good health care,, Hmmmm, remember all the discussions here over wait times, how some of the Provinces it is worse than others.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 74,870
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 27, 2019 11:23:48 GMT -5
it sounds like we are in perfect agreement, with that one small edit, frm.
let me ask you something. we have been posting together for MANY years. do you REALLY think me naiive?
college is an opportunity to expand your mind. that is absolutely unquestionable. nobody I know who went to college came out less educated than they went in. nobody. zero. zip.
so, to claim those things are unrelated is both illogical, and verifiably false. do you want me to show you MORE evidence? because I can. all you have to do is look at level of education -vs- belief things that are either verifiably false, or have no evidence whatsoever. going to college is an assault on belief, which is ANOTHER reason why it is declining in the US. BELIEF is winning here, and REASON is dying. and yes, that latter statement is MY OPINON.
if you think I am naiive, PROVE ME WRONG. otherwise, I see no reason to not dismiss your opinion, because it is only that.
DJ, in the corporate world, it is as common as dirt to see people who haven't cracked a book in years spending a significant part of every week manually performing the kind of repetitive tasks that they could have their computers do automatically. This isn't happening because they don't have the tools to automate the boring stuff. THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO LEARN ANYTHING NEW. These people all had college degrees, and this attitude was just as common in the under 30 set. Even when the company was having layoffs every couple of years. Even when the economy was in the tank. They would rather risk loosing their livelihoods than educate themselves. Having gotten a free ride at a less exclusive school, this didn't surprise me. A lot of kids in college aren't there to get an education. They are there to get a piece of paper. I was teaching college students elementary school math in a non-remedial class. An English professor I knew was teaching them how to diagram sentences, since half of her classes didn't have the foggiest clue how the English language was structured. These kind of students would not have been admitted to college in previous generations. They had no background, no love of learning, and no study skills. And while they were probably slightly less ignorant after 4 years of college (I'll give you that), I doubt many of them would end up being much smarter than the credentialed idiots I've met in the corporate world. College is an opportunity to expand your mind. It does not guarantee it. And no matter who is paying for it, 4 years worth of time, tuition, room and board is a to spend on someone who is not academically inclined. There's different kinds of smart. The incompetent cube drone may have been a genius mechanic if college had not been shoved down his throat. you are drawing a distinction between educated and smart. and I agree with it. it is something my dad taught me. Stanford grad.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jul 27, 2019 11:54:02 GMT -5
That's because most Canadians can not afford, Good health care,, Hmmmm, remember all the discussions here over wait times, how some of the Provinces it is worse than others.
What ARE you yammering about? Canadians can't afford good health care? Yes, there are wait times for elective surgery, things which aren't urgent. I'd rather have our system than yours any day of the week. I worked in your system. I was disgusted at how many patients were kicked off their insurance when they needed it most, or couldn't afford it. I spent a lot of time with a a lot of dying people. In any case, why did Rand Paul come to the Shouldice Hospital in Ontario for hernia surgery? Because it's the best.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jul 27, 2019 13:14:44 GMT -5
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jul 27, 2019 13:16:18 GMT -5
THIS is why Trump likes the uneducated and uninformed. They're gullible, and will swallow any pap that Trump and Fox News feeds them.
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 27, 2019 13:44:00 GMT -5
THIS is why Trump likes the uneducated and uninformed. They're gullible, and will swallow any pap that Trump and Fox News feeds them. And they gurgle it out as if it were gospel. Using screaming big font and red letters...
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 74,870
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 27, 2019 15:05:08 GMT -5
THIS is why Trump likes the uneducated and uninformed. They're gullible, and will swallow any pap that Trump and Fox News feeds them. And they gurgle it out as if it were gospel. Using screaming big font and red letters... we are only #1 in two categories.
first is military spending. we are #1 by a long shot. and it is slowly killing us. second is overall GDP. within a couple of decades, China will pass us. they are already past us in PPP.
anybody can spend a shitload of money, so I really don't think we have much worth bragging about any more.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jul 27, 2019 17:01:19 GMT -5
And they gurgle it out as if it were gospel. Using screaming big font and red letters... we are only #1 in two categories.
first is military spending. we are #1 by a long shot. and it is slowly killing us. second is overall GDP. within a couple of decades, China will pass us. they are already past us in PPP.
anybody can spend a shitload of money, so I really don't think we have much worth bragging about any more.
You're also #1 in most incarcerations and the most opioid use.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 30, 2019 2:39:17 GMT -5
THIS is why Trump likes the uneducated and uninformed. They're gullible, and will swallow any pap that Trump and Fox News feeds them. There are plenty of educated people in flyover country, the states Trump took. I haven’t done any time in the Silicon Valley companies, but having spent 20 years in corporate IT, it’s not exactly a hotbed of liberalism there either. Portraying people with different political views as evil stupid or crazy maybe you feel better, but this sort of nonsense will make you lose people that would otherwise be on your side.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 74,870
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 9:56:55 GMT -5
I doubt it, frm. Trump is very skillful at "peeling off" constituencies.
for example, we will never agree on immigration or abortion, very likely.
now, Trump will probably NEVER do anything about either issue. but he will appeal to you and get your vote. and insodoing, he will lose mine.
see what I mean?
there is NO WAY we are naturally going to vote for the same person in these circumstances. and there is NO WAY that Trump is going to lose many of the 42% that support him
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 74,870
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2019 12:16:54 GMT -5
|
|
phil5185
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 15:45:49 GMT -5
Posts: 6,409
|
Post by phil5185 on Jul 30, 2019 13:30:55 GMT -5
but he will appeal to you and get your vote. and insodoing, he will lose mine. No, yours was never there to lose.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jul 30, 2019 13:31:19 GMT -5
THIS is why Trump likes the uneducated and uninformed. They're gullible, and will swallow any pap that Trump and Fox News feeds them. There are plenty of educated people in flyover country, the states Trump took. I haven’t done any time in the Silicon Valley companies, but having spent 20 years in corporate IT, it’s not exactly a hotbed of liberalism there either. Portraying people with different political views as evil stupid or crazy maybe you feel better, but this sort of nonsense will make you lose people that would otherwise be on your side.Well, in that case, you should send your malignant hero, Trump, a strongly-worded email, saying he he shouldn't portray people as evil, stupid or crazy. In any case, this place is not a popularity contest. Do you think I care if you're "on my side" or not? Not even a little bit. I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not going to pretty it up so you'll be on my side.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jul 30, 2019 13:36:06 GMT -5
Yep, that is why so many Canadians come to the U.S. for their health care! So many? Lol! How many, exactly? Do not include the frail and elderly Snowbirds who live there half the year who tend to get sick, because they come for the warmth, not the healthcare. Are you going to answer the question, Old Coyote? How many is "so many"? You just seem to be regurgitating the crap the right wing spoon-feeds you, without having the wherewithal to check for yourself or doing a lick of research. You're a parrot. Want a cracker?
|
|