tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 5, 2019 15:23:03 GMT -5
This slightly younger person than GG (but not by much) pays higher taxes to support the local school system as well. And I don't mind even though my kids went to private schools (mostly abroad) and my grandkids live in Europe. So no direct family benefit for me. However, and I have said this multiple times in other threads, I do prefer my pharmasist/nurses/doctors/etc to be able to read. Just like it is a good thing that my mailman/mechanic/grocery clerk/etc. can read. Society as a whole → which all of us are part of - benefit from a well-educated labor force and that education should not be dependent on whether your parents are rich or poor. Have good spending habits or bad ones. It should be dependent on a person's inate abilities and drive to do something good/well. the point is senior citizens who cannot afford to pay the taxes. I personally don't have a soft spot for them but it does happen especially where i lived in NY Don't most areas have property tax exemption programs for low-income seniors? They can get significant reductions in their taxes.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 5, 2019 15:24:29 GMT -5
If you were to look at my car, you would say 'Wow, that's a $30,000 car." Fact is, I paid $2,200 for it and it's not worth much more than that. Ednkris, it not any of your business to judge what kind of car people drive in order to qualify for assistance.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 15:25:17 GMT -5
What kind of grocery shopping trip are you making that you can actually witness the transactions of 15 other people closely enough to see how they are paying? And then all 15 are paying with some kind of assistance? And you somehow also see them all get in their cars? And all their cars are expensive?
Do you have any idea how blatantly ridiculous your post is? So, I honestly want to know - do you just so strongly believe in your soul that this happens so much that you have convinced yourself that is what is occurring all round you when you shop? Or do you know you are just making things up?
it's prejudicial, imo.
what if their grandma's left them a car in their estate? do we REALLY expect them to give up their car for food? how will they get to work?
back when we were starting out poor as fuck i would do anything to feed the kids and keep a roof over their heads never went on assistance hence why i always say you can work 100 hrs a week for at least a few weeks it won't kill you. Yes i would sell a family heirloom if it ment not going on assistance.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:26:09 GMT -5
If you were to look at my car, you would say 'Wow, that's a $30,000 car." Fact is, I paid $2,200 for it and it's not worth much more than that. Ednkris, it not any of your business to judge what kind of car people drive in order to qualify for assistance. if ANYONE wants to make that determination, they should apply for a job with SNAP. otherwise, they should let others do that job according to the standards of the agency.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 15:26:17 GMT -5
the point is senior citizens who cannot afford to pay the taxes. I personally don't have a soft spot for them but it does happen especially where i lived in NY to play the devil's advocate, why don't they move to a low COL/zero income tax state? that is the point they did. Gave up their homes
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:27:58 GMT -5
it's prejudicial, imo.
what if their grandma's left them a car in their estate? do we REALLY expect them to give up their car for food? how will they get to work?
back when we were starting out poor as fuck i would do anything to feed the kids and keep a roof over their heads never went on assistance hence why i always say you can work 100 hrs a week for at least a few weeks it won't kill you. Yes i would sell a family heirloom if it ment not going on assistance. how would you get to your (3) jobs without a car? what benefit would that be to anyone?
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 15:29:34 GMT -5
the point is senior citizens who cannot afford to pay the taxes. I personally don't have a soft spot for them but it does happen especially where i lived in NY Don't most areas have property tax exemption programs for low-income seniors? They can get significant reductions in their taxes. yes sir there are but not enough no soft spot for them piss poor planning.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 5, 2019 15:29:45 GMT -5
it's prejudicial, imo.
what if their grandma's left them a car in their estate? do we REALLY expect them to give up their car for food? how will they get to work?
back when we were starting out poor as fuck i would do anything to feed the kids and keep a roof over their heads never went on assistance hence why i always say you can work 100 hrs a week for at least a few weeks it won't kill you. Yes i would sell a family heirloom if it ment not going on assistance. So, if giving up the car you disapprove of meant they could work zero hours a week, which you would also disapprove of, what exactly should they do to make you happy?
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 15:30:35 GMT -5
back when we were starting out poor as fuck i would do anything to feed the kids and keep a roof over their heads never went on assistance hence why i always say you can work 100 hrs a week for at least a few weeks it won't kill you. Yes i would sell a family heirloom if it ment not going on assistance. how would you get to your (3) jobs without a car? what benefit would that be to anyone?
i would sell the car for as much as i could then buy a cheaper one
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 15:32:31 GMT -5
back when we were starting out poor as fuck i would do anything to feed the kids and keep a roof over their heads never went on assistance hence why i always say you can work 100 hrs a week for at least a few weeks it won't kill you. Yes i would sell a family heirloom if it ment not going on assistance. So, if giving up the car you disapprove of meant they could work zero hours a week, which you would also disapprove of, what exactly should they do to make you happy? sell the car, buy a cheaper one use difference to pay bills eat etc
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:33:25 GMT -5
how would you get to your (3) jobs without a car? what benefit would that be to anyone?
i would sell the car for as much as i could then buy a cheaper one in my example, the car was free. how does it make any sense to sell a reliable vehicle, buy an unreliable one (for more than free), have to pay taxes, DMV, and Smog, etc?
it seems penny wise and pound foolish to me.
but i guess i am just incapable of seeing things "correctly".
edit: i should add a personal anecdote in this highly personal matter. when the company needed a truck in 2000, my partner successfully lobbied me to buy one new. i NEVER buy new cars. EVER. because the cost of driving them off the lot is so high. but his argument was that pickups resell so high around here that we were paying for not having a warranty. i still didn't like the argument, but i acceded to it, eventually. it wasn't an argument worth having, because the difference in cost was so little, and it was easier to finance and insure a new vehicle (known values -vs- estimated).
sometimes, it is easier to just go with the flow, and worry about your own situation, than to sit back and criticize people for their choices.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 5, 2019 15:34:18 GMT -5
What kind of grocery shopping trip are you making that you can actually witness the transactions of 15 other people closely enough to see how they are paying? And then all 15 are paying with some kind of assistance? And you somehow also see them all get in their cars? And all their cars are expensive?
Do you have any idea how blatantly ridiculous your post is? So, I honestly want to know - do you just so strongly believe in your soul that this happens so much that you have convinced yourself that is what is occurring all round you when you shop? Or do you know you are just making things up?
actually its not hard at all I see it all the time of course when we go shopping its an all day event with several stores Really? You want to stick with this story? This is a hill you want to die on?
I'd like to hear more about how this works. Is it that you actually see 15 people's payment methods and they are ALL on assistance? Or you stand in line just letting hundreds of people go ahead of you until you hit that magic number that will enable to spend the rest of your day fuming in righteous indignation?
And for the cars - do you jump out of line every time you see someone pay with assistance so you can stalk them to their car like a totally normal person? Or do you stand at the door checking receipts? It's so intriguing, I need to find out how it's done.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Aug 5, 2019 15:34:29 GMT -5
Don't most areas have property tax exemption programs for low-income seniors? They can get significant reductions in their taxes. yes sir there are but not enough no soft spot for them piss poor planning. It isn't always piss poor planning, it's often unexpected things that end up being way more than anyone could plan for....like a child with leukemia & all the associated costs taking every penny they can manage & still ending up in debt...more debt than they could ever be able to pay off with interest still accumulating too. You don't know why many are in the situation they end up in...
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 5, 2019 15:37:52 GMT -5
Don't most areas have property tax exemption programs for low-income seniors? They can get significant reductions in their taxes. yes sir there are but not enough no soft spot for them piss poor planning. Sometimes, certainly, though I would guess the poor planning part would apply more to pre-retiree people who had more opportunities and options but failed to take advantage of them. Regardless, it is nowhere near ALL low-income seniors who can be tarred with the "poor planning" brush, and probably not even a majority. Bad things happen sometimes, even to good people.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:38:55 GMT -5
yes sir there are but not enough no soft spot for them piss poor planning. It isn't always piss poor planning, it's often unexpected things that end up being way more than anyone could plan for....like a child with leukemia & all the associated costs taking every penny they can manage & still ending up in debt...more debt than they could ever be able to pay off with interest still accumulating too. You don't know why many are in the situation they end up in... i hear this argument all the time. it is the "welfare queen" argument. and yeah, welfare queens should be shut down. welfare queens like Trump, for example, that used the bankruptcy court half a dozen times to preserve his fortune rather than pay his subcontractors and lenders.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 5, 2019 15:39:56 GMT -5
So, if giving up the car you disapprove of meant they could work zero hours a week, which you would also disapprove of, what exactly should they do to make you happy? sell the car, buy a cheaper one use difference to pay bills eat etc It seems like reliable transportation would be a key component in making this 100 hour workweek a success.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:41:08 GMT -5
sell the car, buy a cheaper one use difference to pay bills eat etc It seems like reliable transportation would be a key component in making this 100 hour workweek a success. there is a whole other layer to this argument. and that is this:
what is the purpose of a social safety net?
notice that we are not even talking about that?
i did.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 15:43:49 GMT -5
actually its not hard at all I see it all the time of course when we go shopping its an all day event with several stores Really? You want to stick with this story? This is a hill you want to die on?
I'd like to hear more about how this works. Is it that you actually see 15 people's payment methods and they are ALL on assistance? Or you stand in line just letting hundreds of people go ahead of you until you hit that magic number that will enable to spend the rest of your day fuming in righteous indignation?
And for the cars - do you jump out of line every time you see someone pay with assistance so you can stalk them to their car like a totally normal person? Or do you stand at the door checking receipts? It's so intriguing, I need to find out how it's done.
is it really that hard stand in line you can see 2 people in front of you, people in the next isle over usually they hold their snap card out waiting to pay multiply that by several stores its not hard to do. I've always got my eyes open. Years ago i was buying diapers in Great American store I noticed the guy in the next isle had a funny looking bill. I waited until her line was clear and asked her about the bill. She opened the drawer to find a blue seal five dollar bill. She let me exchange that for a current bill. Is the bill worth anything maybe a few bucks more. Never know what can happen when you keep your eyes open
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:49:37 GMT -5
it's prejudicial, imo.
what if their grandma's left them a car in their estate? do we REALLY expect them to give up their car for food? how will they get to work?
back when we were starting out poor as fuck i would do anything to feed the kids and keep a roof over their heads never went on assistance hence why i always say you can work 100 hrs a week for at least a few weeks it won't kill you. Yes i would sell a family heirloom if it ment not going on assistance. i should add that i admire your ethic. my dad taught me the same: do whatever you can to preserve your dignity and stay off assistance. that having been said, i have collected unemployment, and i have had a girlfriend that got food assistance. did i find it embarrassing? sure. but i also knew it was transitory, and that i would be paying it all back. and then some.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 5, 2019 15:55:45 GMT -5
Really? You want to stick with this story? This is a hill you want to die on?
I'd like to hear more about how this works. Is it that you actually see 15 people's payment methods and they are ALL on assistance? Or you stand in line just letting hundreds of people go ahead of you until you hit that magic number that will enable to spend the rest of your day fuming in righteous indignation?
And for the cars - do you jump out of line every time you see someone pay with assistance so you can stalk them to their car like a totally normal person? Or do you stand at the door checking receipts? It's so intriguing, I need to find out how it's done.
is it really that hard stand in line you can see 2 people in front of you, people in the next isle over usually they hold their snap card out waiting to pay multiply that by several stores its not hard to do. I've always got my eyes open. Years ago i was buying diapers in Great American store I noticed the guy in the next isle had a funny looking bill. I waited until her line was clear and asked her about the bill. She opened the drawer to find a blue seal five dollar bill. She let me exchange that for a current bill. Is the bill worth anything maybe a few bucks more. Never know what can happen when you keep your eyes open Yes, it is that hard. It is actually impossible to believe you are seeing anywhere close to what you say (or believe) you are seeing. So in this scenario, you perhaps see 3 people paying. To get anywhere close to your # you need to visit 5 stores. And in all of those trips 100% of the people around you are paying with assistance. And you see them all go to their cars. And they all drive nice cars.
I think we can all agree that you are not seeing what you say you are seeing, because it's just not possible. So, what I keep trying to ask you is WHY do you believe that this is happening in vast numbers all around you every time you shop? Who has convinced you this is true? Why do you WANT to believe it's true? What purpose does it serve you?
ETA: If 100% of the people in 100% of the stores you shop in pay with assistance 100% of the time, then you must also be paying with assistance. No one is that much of an anomaly.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 16:23:33 GMT -5
is it really that hard stand in line you can see 2 people in front of you, people in the next isle over usually they hold their snap card out waiting to pay multiply that by several stores its not hard to do. I've always got my eyes open. Years ago i was buying diapers in Great American store I noticed the guy in the next isle had a funny looking bill. I waited until her line was clear and asked her about the bill. She opened the drawer to find a blue seal five dollar bill. She let me exchange that for a current bill. Is the bill worth anything maybe a few bucks more. Never know what can happen when you keep your eyes open Yes, it is that hard. It is actually impossible to believe you are seeing anywhere close to what you say (or believe) you are seeing. So in this scenario, you perhaps see 3 people paying. To get anywhere close to your # you need to visit 5 stores. And in all of those trips 100% of the people around you are paying with assistance. And you see them all go to their cars. And they all drive nice cars.
I think we can all agree that you are not seeing what you say you are seeing, because it's just not possible. So, what I keep trying to ask you is WHY do you believe that this is happening in vast numbers all around you every time you shop? Who has convinced you this is true? Why do you WANT to believe it's true? What purpose does it serve you?
ETA: If 100% of the people in 100% of the stores you shop in pay with assistance 100% of the time, then you must also be paying with assistance. No one is that much of an anomaly.
I just pointed it out no matter what i say you wont' believe it. I doesn't matter to me.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 5, 2019 16:26:21 GMT -5
It's been 50 years, but I still remember the humiliation of using food stamps (they were actually stamps) which I qualified for even though I worked full time (I earned very little and was trying to support my self and two sons after divorcing an abusive ex)
I remember feeling self conscious that some judgmental asshole would be looking at my cart and evaluating my choices. They'd look at my nice clothes (I sewed everything I wore and dressed very nicely for my job). And I'm sure they checked out the used VW Beetle I drove and said "why doesn't she get rid of the car?" Well, I needed it to commute to work dumbass
It's part of the reason these kinds of posts piss me off so much.
Until you've walked in someone else's shoes maybe you should try to MYOB
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 16:38:50 GMT -5
It's been 50 years, but I still remember the humiliation of using food stamps (they were actually stamps) which I qualified for even though I worked full time (I earned very little and was trying to support my self and two sons after divorcing an abusive ex) I remember feeling self conscious that some judgmental asshole would be looking at my cart and evaluating my choices. They'd look at my nice clothes (I sewed everything I wore and dressed very nicely for my job). And I'm sure they checked out the used VW Beetle I drove and said "why doesn't she get rid of the car?" Well, I needed it to commute to work dumbass It's part of the reason these kinds of posts piss me off so much. Until you've walked in someone else's shoes maybe you should try to MYOB that is what a open forum---peoples opinions
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 5, 2019 16:42:23 GMT -5
Really? You want to stick with this story? This is a hill you want to die on?
I'd like to hear more about how this works. Is it that you actually see 15 people's payment methods and they are ALL on assistance? Or you stand in line just letting hundreds of people go ahead of you until you hit that magic number that will enable to spend the rest of your day fuming in righteous indignation?
And for the cars - do you jump out of line every time you see someone pay with assistance so you can stalk them to their car like a totally normal person? Or do you stand at the door checking receipts? It's so intriguing, I need to find out how it's done.
is it really that hard stand in line you can see 2 people in front of you, people in the next isle over usually they hold their snap card out waiting to pay multiply that by several stores its not hard to do. I've always got my eyes open. Years ago i was buying diapers in Great American store I noticed the guy in the next isle had a funny looking bill. I waited until her line was clear and asked her about the bill. She opened the drawer to find a blue seal five dollar bill. She let me exchange that for a current bill. Is the bill worth anything maybe a few bucks more. Never know what can happen when you keep your eyes open Does the SNAP card also state what kind of vehicle they drive, or is it tattooed on their foreheads?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 16:43:13 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 5, 2019 16:46:08 GMT -5
It's been 50 years, but I still remember the humiliation of using food stamps (they were actually stamps) which I qualified for even though I worked full time (I earned very little and was trying to support my self and two sons after divorcing an abusive ex) I remember feeling self conscious that some judgmental asshole would be looking at my cart and evaluating my choices. They'd look at my nice clothes (I sewed everything I wore and dressed very nicely for my job). And I'm sure they checked out the used VW Beetle I drove and said "why doesn't she get rid of the car?" Well, I needed it to commute to work dumbass It's part of the reason these kinds of posts piss me off so much. Until you've walked in someone else's shoes maybe you should try to MYOB It's also why people can't get out of the cycle. I am if I needed assistance much better off keeping my 10k car with less than 100k miles on it and driving it into the ground than spending $2k plus tax,tags and registration on a POS that if I'm lucky will last a couple years resulting in another 2k purchase plus tax tags and registration. All so people can feel I earned my benefits.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 17:05:10 GMT -5
is it really that hard stand in line you can see 2 people in front of you, people in the next isle over usually they hold their snap card out waiting to pay multiply that by several stores its not hard to do. I've always got my eyes open. Years ago i was buying diapers in Great American store I noticed the guy in the next isle had a funny looking bill. I waited until her line was clear and asked her about the bill. She opened the drawer to find a blue seal five dollar bill. She let me exchange that for a current bill. Is the bill worth anything maybe a few bucks more. Never know what can happen when you keep your eyes open Does the SNAP card also state what kind of vehicle they drive, or is it tattooed on their foreheads? i'm more amazed people cannot do this keep their eyes open and watch. There is not a room or event i'm in that i don't know where the exits are, peoples actions the clothes they wear. The cars they pull up in and leave in.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 5, 2019 17:40:21 GMT -5
Somebody has WAY too much time on their hands.... Or way too little to occupy their thoughts.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 5, 2019 17:47:58 GMT -5
Does the SNAP card also state what kind of vehicle they drive, or is it tattooed on their foreheads? i'm more amazed people cannot do this keep their eyes open and watch. There is not a room or event i'm in that i don't know where the exits are, peoples actions the clothes they wear. The cars they pull up in and leave in. Not everyone is a judgmental asshole. Some of us mind our own busisness
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 5, 2019 17:59:01 GMT -5
Does the SNAP card also state what kind of vehicle they drive, or is it tattooed on their foreheads? i'm more amazed people cannot do this keep their eyes open and watch. There is not a room or event i'm in that i don't know where the exits are, peoples actions the clothes they wear. The cars they pull up in and leave in. Understood. You follow the SNAP people out of the store to see what kind of car they drive, like a creepy little stalker.
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