How to fairly share cost of repaving private road

[spartyparty]

You have checked property records, correct?

[vonna]

I am trying to sort this all out as objectively as possible.  Most neighbors think the new guy should pay more -- I think this may be partly emotional -- we have watched for years huge constuction vehicles and trucks with his last name on them destroy the road, and in some cases private property.

I just want a new road.

I had already agreed to pay our 1/10th, but it's looking like it may not happen . . .


And, it helps to see other's perspectives, so, again, thank you!

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 17, 2019 12:45:41 GMT -5 vonna said:

Jun 17, 2019 12:18:10 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Are the new homes sold? If not, there is an opportunity for some of the cost to be rolled into the purchase price.

Are there "lots" that can be developed in the future? I am thinking that if there are, there could be motivation for setting up costs to be part of construction this time so that next time ....

Maybe, "Hey folks, we need to make an agreement for ourselves or we might end up having to deal with lawyers and governmental officials" could be an additional motivator.

No more lots to be developed.  The new homes were both built by the same guy -- and he lives in one and rents the other.  He owns the contruction company.

If he owns the construction company, can you make a direct appeal to him?  At the very least, he might be able to do this cheaper than your quote.

We live on a private road too, luckily it is in pretty good shape.  But there is no more property left to be built upon, unless we sell.  We own all the land at the end of the dead end road, bought to keep the green space.  Last week, got a letter from someone wanting to buy it.....for about 1/4 of the taxed value, and 1/6 the appraised value.  LOL.....no.

[vonna]

Jun 17, 2019 12:55:13 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Jun 17, 2019 12:04:14 GMT -5 vonna said:

Thank you everyone for your ideas -- and keep them coming!

I ask because I honestly don't know what would be considered "fair".

I would be happy to pay our portion, if the neighbors can all agree to a method.  I would like it fixed, and I do hope we can put something in place to help with future issues.

So let's start with:

1.  Are the houses roughly evenly spaced?

2.  Starting at the entry point, what would your house number be?

Not evenly spaced, I'm the third one in.  I am on the steepest portion of the hill and now have to do quite an interesting maneuver when I pull out of the driveway to avoid falling down in a pretty significant pothole.

So, very motivated to fix it --  the road gets much worse between my house and the construction owners house (he would be house number 5)

[hoops902]

Jun 17, 2019 13:03:27 GMT -5 vonna said:

Jun 17, 2019 12:55:13 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

So let's start with:

1.  Are the houses roughly evenly spaced?

2.  Starting at the entry point, what would your house number be?

Not evenly spaced, I'm the third one in.  I am on the steepest portion of the hill and now have to do quite an interesting maneuver when I pull out of the driveway to avoid falling down in a pretty significant pothole.

So, very motivated to fix it --  the road gets much worse between my house and the construction owners house (he would be house number 5)

So is there anyone you see not agreeing to split it 10 ways evenly?  Specifically, the hardest should be the earlier houses, and with you #3 and the construction owner #5, that SHOULD help out since you've said you're in and it's hard to imagine him saying no to a 1/10 split since I assume the 2 houses he just built are at/toward the end (otherwise the trucks wouldn't have torn up a whole lot of road).

[souldoubt]

Jun 17, 2019 12:58:25 GMT -5 vonna said:

I am trying to sort this all out as objectively as possible.  Most neighbors think the new guy should pay more -- I think this may be partly emotional -- we have watched for years huge constuction vehicles and trucks with his last name on them destroy the road, and in some cases private property.

I just want a new road.

I had already agreed to pay our 1/10th, but it's looking like it may not happen . . .


And, it helps to see other's perspectives, so, again, thank you!

In a way I don't blame the neighbors for feeling that way but the kicker is if it wasn't the person they blame for the damage owning the newest houses then I doubt they'd want to go after the new owner for more than an even split.  I'm with you as far as thinking I would just want to get it fixed, I'll pay 1/10 and I'd like to keep it as amicable as possible because we're going to have to deal with one another in some capacity going forward.  Obviously when money is involved it's an emotional situation and what might seem the most fair route isn't always what people will support. Good luck.  

[hoops902]

I think my attitude if I were in this situation would also likely be colored by whether I thought:

1.  This is a one-time thing, after this it might need replaced eventually but it will be normal wear and tear with residential vehicles driving up and down it.

vs.

2.  This guy is going to be driving a bunch of big trucks up and down this road in the future and continue tearing it up a lot more than the rest of us combined.  

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Can you just pay to have the pothole at the end of your driveway filled in? Will that solve enough of the road issues or does the whole road really need to be rebuilt/repaved?

[NastyWoman]

I think the damage to pivate property caused during this construction also needs to be considered: If these trucks saddled me with an additional say $3K of repairs due to damage to my drive way, I would not be willing to pay another 1/10th or 1/12th for the main road.

That should at the very least be an independent claim against the contractor.

[CCL]

Jun 17, 2019 12:56:25 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jun 17, 2019 12:45:41 GMT -5 vonna said:

No more lots to be developed.  The new homes were both built by the same guy -- and he lives in one and rents the other.  He owns the contruction company.

I would invite all 12 households together for a group meeting about the road. Get a few more quotes on paving the road - see if someone will quote just patching the holes, rather than a whole paving job. Since the two new houses are owned by a guy who has a construction company, see if he can get a discount on the paving.

Then put it to a vote and see what the majority want to do. At the same time, see if you can get everyone to agree on a 'road rules' document that provides for everyone paying an annual fee to a 'repair fund' kitty. This would also be a good time to insert other proactive rules - can people park along the road, for instance, or park their RV there and let someone live in it? If someone has a load of concrete delivered and it damages the road, should they pay for the repair?  Could you make some allowances for people on fixed incomes not to have to pay into the road fund?

How are you going to enforce any of that? And who holds the money? Would they need to create some sort of HOA?

[Tiny]

Jun 17, 2019 11:33:11 GMT -5 vonna said:

Jun 17, 2019 11:30:13 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Shouldn't the construction company pay for the repairs?

The owner of the construction company built both houses, and lives in one

I would think this is an opportunity to get a better road built. Perhaps the construction company guy would do you all a "nice" and give you a discount (or throw in some nice to haves (like curbs? or better drainage or nicer, wider driveway aprons, or something) for a reasonable price. you all split the costs evenly.

I would sell it as "everyone benefits from having a nicer private road - due to maintaining the property values and giving EVERY house the cachet of having a fine paved road.

Don't underestimate the power of a good road... I've been looking at investment properties and there are some really nice condos where part of the access road (and the main parking area is gravel) and I don't want to pay a premium price for any of the units. Grave!? Geez... it's like wearing worn out high top sneakers with your ball gown (or tuxedo).

[vonna]

Jun 17, 2019 13:58:34 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

Can you just pay to have the pothole at the end of your driveway filled in? Will that solve enough of the road issues or does the whole road really need to be rebuilt/repaved?

My husband and I are going to look into this if an agreement can't be reached, we already discussed getting a quote for all the potholes we encounter up to our home.  It would definitely improve our life, but it looks to me like the whole road needs to be done.  Entire portions are now missing -- enough potholes were created that now when it rains we have quite an impressive "gurgling brook"  down the road complete with mini waterfalls.  The road is worse past our house, and we will probably not spring for patching past our driveway , even though we did last time we patched.  We have potholes on either side of our driveway, and as we leave the neighborhood there are 5 more significant potholes that we weave around.  Daughter calls it the "obstacle course"

We patched potholes before, and aren't opposed to doing it again, just unsure if patching would hold for any length of time  at this stage of the game. . . .

[billisonboard]

Jun 17, 2019 14:43:12 GMT -5 CCL said:

Jun 17, 2019 12:56:25 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I would invite all 12 households together for a group meeting about the road. Get a few more quotes on paving the road - see if someone will quote just patching the holes, rather than a whole paving job. Since the two new houses are owned by a guy who has a construction company, see if he can get a discount on the paving.

Then put it to a vote and see what the majority want to do. At the same time, see if you can get everyone to agree on a 'road rules' document that provides for everyone paying an annual fee to a 'repair fund' kitty. This would also be a good time to insert other proactive rules - can people park along the road, for instance, or park their RV there and let someone live in it? If someone has a load of concrete delivered and it damages the road, should they pay for the repair?  Could you make some allowances for people on fixed incomes not to have to pay into the road fund?

How are you going to enforce any of that? And who holds the money? Would they need to create some sort of HOA?

road maintenance agreement template

[phil5185]

""I would invite all 12 households together for a group meeting about the road.""

Maybe you could start by visiting the contractor. S/he is already 'in' for 2 shares, so s/he has the biggest interest. And that visit would give you a feel for personality.

If s/he starts with 'screw you, sue me' that gives you one extreme. And if s/he starts with 'I want to be a good neighbor, I'll take care of it", that defines the opposite extreme. That gives you a starting point on how to proceed.

[bookkeeper]

Does the owner of the two new homes and construction company run his business from either of his two lots?  I had this situation on a shared lane.  Lots of delivery trucks, employee personal vehicles, heavy trucks, trailers and other equipment daily.  The business owner in my story solved the problem by providing all the labor to maintain our shared lane.  He bladed the gravel in the summer and moved the snow in the winter.  The other 7 lots on the lane paid for all the gravel delivered.

As another poster pointed out, this is a great time to update your road agreement.  

[billisonboard]

Jun 17, 2019 18:02:02 GMT -5 bookkeeper said:

...

As another poster pointed out, this is a great time to update your road agreement.  

Apparently it is a great time to create a road maintenance agreement.

[schildi]

I live on a private road with several completed houses and one empty lot. The road is almost brand new and was built after all houses were completed a few years ago except the one.
The road is very nice but not made for the weight of concrete trucks. We placed a weight limit sign at the entrance. Should a builder start building on the empty lot, we will submit recent pictures and a repair request for any damages to the construction company beforehand.
I already talked to one construction company when someone had thought about buying and building. The response from the builder was: sure. Their client will have to take out an insurance policy for damages caused by the construction, including to the road.

Really not looking forward to it happening though. Doubt that this would be a smooth experience.

We do have a road maintenance agreement, but those are not easy to enforce, especially without an HOA. The agreement does say that individual owners are responsible for fixing damages they caused, which I guess would apply in case of a new construction.

[debthaven]

I would probably ask the owner of the two new houses who has a construction company if he can give you a good price. But I can see how it could be difficult to get everyone on board in a situation like this.

[vonna]

Thanks again for everyone's input.  

It only took one neighborhood meeting to come to agreement!  The person that initially started the process had proposed an even split, and I think that is what got so many people heated.  One of the original  owners took the time to do her research, and made calulations based on percent of road usage.  Everyone came to agreement quite quickly when she presented the figures.  

We will have a new road in September, complete with drainage issues addressed.  

And, I really have wonderful neighbors!

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Jun 28, 2019 9:32:00 GMT -5 vonna said:

Thanks again for everyone's input.  

It only took one neighborhood meeting to come to agreement!  The person that initially started the process had proposed an even split, and I think that is what got so many people heated.  One of the original  owners took the time to do her research, and made calulations based on percent of road usage.  Everyone came to agreement quite quickly when she presented the figures.  

We will have a new road in September, complete with drainage issues addressed.  

And, I really have wonderful neighbors!

I'm glad it's going so well!

[haapai]

Do you mind if I ask what the highest percentage of road use was and how many different houses were ponying up?  I'm curious how far off it was from an even split. 

[billisonboard]

Jun 28, 2019 9:32:00 GMT -5 vonna said:

Thanks again for everyone's input.  

It only took one neighborhood meeting to come to agreement!  The person that initially started the process had proposed an even split, and I think that is what got so many people heated.  One of the original  owners took the time to do her research, and made calulations based on percent of road usage.  Everyone came to agreement quite quickly when she presented the figures.  

We will have a new road in September, complete with drainage issues addressed.  

And, I really have wonderful neighbors!

Any talk on working to get a permanent road agreement in place?

[vonna]

Jun 28, 2019 11:26:19 GMT -5 haapai said:

Do you mind if I ask what the highest percentage of road use was and how many different houses were ponying up?  I'm curious how far off it was from an even split. 

smallest share at top of the street was $1200, largest at bottom was just under $5000 -- 11 homes in all

[vonna]

Jun 28, 2019 11:56:38 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 28, 2019 9:32:00 GMT -5 vonna said:

Thanks again for everyone's input.  

It only took one neighborhood meeting to come to agreement!  The person that initially started the process had proposed an even split, and I think that is what got so many people heated.  One of the original  owners took the time to do her research, and made calulations based on percent of road usage.  Everyone came to agreement quite quickly when she presented the figures.  

We will have a new road in September, complete with drainage issues addressed.  

And, I really have wonderful neighbors!

Any talk on working to get a permanent road agreement in place?

LOL,  no.

Our small town is full of private roads, and the three original residents don't see a need for it, from their perspective this has come up twice, almost 30 years apart. both times amicably settled. Ideally, I would like an agreement, but have no issue just going with the flow -- 

[debthaven]

That's great news vonna !

As you may know I live in a suburb of Paris, which is full of very old buildings. As time goes on, more and more of these old buildings are adding elevators, if they can.

Here, when a building installs a new elevator (or repairs/replaces an existing one) the people on the highest floor pay the most. The people on the next-highest floor pay the second-most. And so on, until you get to the people on the first floor, who pay the least (but they still pay something.) 

I typed this out when I left my last comment, but deleted it because I didn't want to argue with people (not you!) about "how unfair it was". To me, it's normal. I see your road as the exact same situation as the elevator, except horizontal instead of vertical LOL.

I guess the only difference is that the people on the first floor of those buildings may well NEVER use the elevator, whereas the residents of your first house WILL use a bit of the road. But it helps ALL of you to have a functional road, just as it increases the value of ALL the apartments to have an elevator.

Very happy it all worked out so well!

(I would still ask the new owner/contractor for a good price LOL.)

[hoops902]

Jun 28, 2019 18:25:13 GMT -5 debthaven said:

That's great news vonna !

As you may know I live in a suburb of Paris, which is full of very old buildings. As time goes on, more and more of these old buildings are adding elevators, if they can.

Here, when a building installs a new elevator (or repairs/replaces an existing one) the people on the highest floor pay the most. The people on the next-highest floor pay the second-most. And so on, until you get to the people on the first floor, who pay the least (but they still pay something.) 

I typed this out when I left my last comment, but deleted it because I didn't want to argue with people (not you!) about "how unfair it was". To me, it's normal. I see your road as the exact same situation as the elevator, except horizontal instead of vertical LOL.

I guess the only difference is that the people on the first floor of those buildings may well NEVER use the elevator, whereas the residents of your first house WILL use a bit of the road. But it helps ALL of you to have a functional road, just as it increases the value of ALL the apartments to have an elevator.

Very happy it all worked out so well!

(I would still ask the new owner/contractor for a good price LOL.)

It's probably the most fair way, though in a lot of cases it starts becoming an issue when different folks feel something is "worth it" to them.  With evenly spaced roadway, the last house in this 11-person community would be footing about 25% of the bill, while the first house would foot about 1%.

And compared to an elevator (and also compared to replacing something vs something new) you can expect that the last 1/2 of the road won't be in nearly as bad shape as the 1st half if it were just regular wear and tear because the first half has a lot more traffic on it.  

So it doesn't take much damage at all for the first house to think "wow, my section is super torn up, and it'll only cost me 1% of the bill...let's get this done!".  Meanwhile the back part that costs the last house a LOT will tend to be in much better shape.  

For myself (and I would guess a lot of others), I'll put up with a LOT more damage when it's going to cost me 25X vs costing me 1X to fix/replace.

[geenamercile]

I think I would do something like the first half split evenly and the second half split by distance. That would cover the front having more damage and the that not everyone uses the whole thing. I would be one of those that would be hard pressed on if the road really needed it or not. Growing up in the blue ridge mountains some of the state dirt roads are way worse then what people complain about on the roads here.