vonna
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Post by vonna on Jun 17, 2019 11:22:37 GMT -5
So, I live on a private road shared by 10 other households. Over the past 6 years, two new homes were constructed -- one at the very end of the road, the other about half way down.
I and all my long term neighbors watched with dismay as our road was destroyed -- the pothills have become craters, there are entire portions of the road now missing, and many of us had the end of our driveways ruined as well as surrounding grass areas due to huge trucks trying to avoid the pothills they created, thus creating more on some of our properties. Many delivery trucks refuse to deliver to our homes now.
So, oh wise YMers -- what is the most fair way to split the costs here? Any personal experience out there that you could share? One person has already obtained a quote, and it is substantial -- $34k
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Jun 17, 2019 11:30:13 GMT -5
Shouldn't the construction company pay for the repairs?
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jun 17, 2019 11:30:40 GMT -5
So is the final today 10 or 12... slightly confused.
If 10, easy: $3,400 each.
If 12 : $2,833.33
I hope you were not thinking that the new homeowners should pay a bigger chunk/share of it?
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jun 17, 2019 11:32:46 GMT -5
Shouldn't the construction company pay for the repairs? Why? It fall under normal : wear and tear. Did they have a sign: no construction truck or heavy duty truck allowed? Now if they destroyed personal property I would agree.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jun 17, 2019 11:33:11 GMT -5
Shouldn't the construction company pay for the repairs? The owner of the construction company built both houses, and lives in one
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Jun 17, 2019 11:34:22 GMT -5
Shouldn't the construction company pay for the repairs? Why? It fall under normal : wear and tear. Did they have a sign: no construction truck or heavy duty truck allowed? Now if they destroyed personal property I would agree. Well... if they've destroyed a public road shouldn't the town/city repair? If it's a private road then they've destroyed private property.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 17, 2019 11:36:33 GMT -5
What does the road maintenance agreement say?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 17, 2019 11:36:53 GMT -5
There are a few fair ways, kind of depends on your perspective on things like this:
1. Split it 10 ways, simple so I won't go deeper (advantage, it is simple. disadvantage, those near the front are paying for a lot of road they don't care about).
2. Split it based on shared usage length. So if we assume all 10 homes are equidistant on the road between one another we end up with the following:
$34k, divided by 10 equal road parts, is 3.4k per section. The first person on the road would pay 1/10 of the first road part, $340. The 2nd person would pay 1/10 of the first road part (because everyone uses that part), plus 1/9th of the 2nd road part. The 10th person pays 100% of the 10th road part, 1/2 of the 9th road part, 1/3 of the 8th road part, and so on and so on. If the road sections aren't of equal length, you measure the total road, divide by the total price, and then come up with a price per foot of paving that gets split among folks with houses that live at that point or further.
My experience with this is having parents who live on a gravel road now, where some folks wanted to pave. It's still gravel because when it comes down to it, people either find their share to not be worth it, or find the way of dividing it unfair.
You do it via method #1 and the person in the first house is a lot more likely to say "$3400? Not worth it, no thanks, I'll just deal with the road as-is". You do it via method #2 and the guy at the end of the road is looking at a HUGE bill, and maybe that person says they aren't interested. The "fair" way is whatever people are willing to pay to have it done really.
Is there no current agreement on how to split road costs (or is this just a question on fairness?)? Is there any kind of HOA in place where there's a vote? Or if one person elects not to participate are they just out of either paying or the job doesn't get done? The first question I suppose is whether everyone is even in agreement that the road NEEDS replaced...i.e. if the potholes and bad parts are not prevalent in the leadup to the first house, does that homeowner even care?
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jun 17, 2019 11:37:57 GMT -5
What does the road maintenance agreement say? No such animal
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 17, 2019 11:39:48 GMT -5
What does the road maintenance agreement say? No such animal Is there any kind of governing entity like an HOA? Or is it a situation where if 4 homeowners say "i don't care about the road, I'm fine with it as-is" then there's no mechanism to force them to pay anything?
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nittanycheme
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Post by nittanycheme on Jun 17, 2019 11:40:40 GMT -5
Is this a road that is eventually going to turn public, or will it remain private? There are a lot of developments in my area where the road is private until the development is "done"and then the road is turned over to the township. Is this going to be the norm going forward? All roads need periodic maintenance. How was it planned to take of the road even before the new people moved in? Are you located in place that gets no snow? I'm just asking because that becomes a big issue in the partially completed developments around here - no plowing since it isn't a township road so the contractor is responsible for it. What happens if someone doesn't want to pay their share? What would it take to make it it a "public" road? If its a dead end road, its not like it'll get any more traffic and the logistics of maintenance will be a lot less complicated.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 17, 2019 11:43:32 GMT -5
It's a private road that the new houses share with the previous houses and they're responsible as much as the other owners are. If someone else has a big truck/trailer that they use and drive on the road do you go after them for more money for wear and tear vs. say the family driving a prius? Unless you get the construction company to chip in I don't see how you can go after the new owners for more than anyone else. It's a crappy situation because if you go after the new owners for more money and they don't agree then that kind of sets the tone going forward while all the owners have a private road they need to use. I'd imagine it could be a pain even getting the 10 or 12 owners to all agree to split the cost if someone doesn't have the money.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 17, 2019 11:43:54 GMT -5
What does the road maintenance agreement say? No such animal State law may apply. Want to share the state you are in?
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jun 17, 2019 11:45:45 GMT -5
Is there any kind of governing entity like an HOA? Or is it a situation where if 4 homeowners say "i don't care about the road, I'm fine with it as-is" then there's no mechanism to force them to pay anything? You got it, no agreement, no HOA. The original paving occured before we bought our houes, and I believe it was based on shared usage length, or something similar. After house #1 was built, my husband and I paid $1k to have pothills filled up -- We notified the neighbors, but did not request they contribute, and no one volunteered. We were fine with that. But this is beyond patching now!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 17, 2019 11:46:44 GMT -5
It's a private road that the new houses share with the previous houses and they're responsible as much as the other owners are. If someone else has a big truck/trailer that they use and drive on the road do you go after them for more money for wear and tear vs. say the family driving a prius? Unless you get the construction company to chip in I don't see how you can go after the new owners for more than anyone else. It's a crappy situation because if you go after the new owners for more money and they don't agree then that kind of sets the tone going forward while all the owners have a private road they need to use. I'd imagine it could be a pain even getting the 10 or 12 owners to all agree to split the cost if someone doesn't have the money. It's also hard to imagine that if there are 10 houses on the road, that previous trucks being used to build the other houses didn't contribute to the deterioration of the road before these newest 2 (assuming the road existed back then). If everyone's construction contributed, you can't just go after the guy who did it most recently as "the cause".
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 17, 2019 11:52:16 GMT -5
It's a private road that the new houses share with the previous houses and they're responsible as much as the other owners are. If someone else has a big truck/trailer that they use and drive on the road do you go after them for more money for wear and tear vs. say the family driving a prius? Unless you get the construction company to chip in I don't see how you can go after the new owners for more than anyone else. It's a crappy situation because if you go after the new owners for more money and they don't agree then that kind of sets the tone going forward while all the owners have a private road they need to use. I'd imagine it could be a pain even getting the 10 or 12 owners to all agree to split the cost if someone doesn't have the money. Yeah, our land has a road association. Fee for upkeep is around $75 a year. This is subject to change but it's mainly plowing the full time residents out in winter. We're also mostly a gravel road.
We're the first lot on the road and our 'driveway' is about 10 feet from the main road. So yeah, we pay but don't much care if this is done or not. Plus we camp in summer, so we're summer folk anyway.
We've got a subdivision going in at the other end of the road. The local township was empathic that they are NOT dealing with the road; it's remaining a private road. It was also made clear that in order for the subdivision to go in the builder had to co-ordinate with our road association on access. Our RA person got a flat fee for each lot being made in the subdivision and the agreement that everyone buying would pay the same fee the rest of us do. We had to vote on it.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 17, 2019 11:52:46 GMT -5
I am not sure the two new home owners should get a free pass on this. This would allow them to use the road for the next umpteen years for free.
I would pro-rate their percentage of what they should pay. But whatever they pay should not be the same amount of the other ten homeowners.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 17, 2019 11:56:23 GMT -5
I bought a place on a private road. There was an agreement in place prior. Annual payment was based on distance up "The Long and Winding Road" one lived. The area was developed by a group of people who moved into the rural area in the early 70's. It was known as "Hippy Hill". The houses were all self built. We discovered that we had to be "approved" by the community before the couple would sell the house to us. We also had to provide a copy of the road agreement to the bank before they would finance it.
I would highly recommend using this opportunity to get a long tern agreement in place.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jun 17, 2019 12:00:32 GMT -5
It's a private road that the new houses share with the previous houses and they're responsible as much as the other owners are. If someone else has a big truck/trailer that they use and drive on the road do you go after them for more money for wear and tear vs. say the family driving a prius? Unless you get the construction company to chip in I don't see how you can go after the new owners for more than anyone else. It's a crappy situation because if you go after the new owners for more money and they don't agree then that kind of sets the tone going forward while all the owners have a private road they need to use. I'd imagine it could be a pain even getting the 10 or 12 owners to all agree to split the cost if someone doesn't have the money. It's also hard to imagine that if there are 10 houses on the road, that previous trucks being used to build the other houses didn't contribute to the deterioration of the road before these newest 2 (assuming the road existed back then). If everyone's construction contributed, you can't just go after the guy who did it most recently as "the cause". We are not the original owner. I'm pretty sure the road wasn't paved until the 8 "old" houses were built. So, now we are 10
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 17, 2019 12:02:54 GMT -5
I bought a place on a private road. There was an agreement in place prior. Annual payment was based on distance up "The Long and Winding Road" one lived. The area was developed by a group of people who moved into the rural area in the early 70's. It was known as "Hippy Hill". The houses were all self built. We discovered that we had to be "approved" by the community before the couple would sell the house to us. We also had to provide a copy of the road agreement to the bank before they would finance it. I would highly recommend using this opportunity to get a long tern agreement in place.This.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jun 17, 2019 12:04:14 GMT -5
Thank you everyone for your ideas -- and keep them coming!
I ask because I honestly don't know what would be considered "fair".
I would be happy to pay our portion, if the neighbors can all agree to a method. I would like it fixed, and I do hope we can put something in place to help with future issues.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 17, 2019 12:06:20 GMT -5
To hoops' point if I'm a new owner I realize construction vehicles contributed to the condition of the road but I'm not keen on paying more for damage done by the vehicles of the other owners before I got there. If it were me I'd just hope all owners are willing to split the cost. After that as someone else mentioned I'd look to get an agreement in place about future maintenance. If you want owners further down the road to pay more they may not like the thought of that so focus on just getting the road fixed first. If there's more builds in the future then you hopefully have an agreement in place that the new owners have to abide by.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 17, 2019 12:17:05 GMT -5
To hoops' point if I'm a new owner I realize construction vehicles contributed to the condition of the road but I'm not keen on paying more for damage done by the vehicles of the other owners before I got there. If it were me I'd just hope all owners are willing to split the cost. After that as someone else mentioned I'd look to get an agreement in place about future maintenance. If you want owners further down the road to pay more they may not like the thought of that so focus on just getting the road fixed first. If there's more builds in the future then you hopefully have an agreement in place that the new owners have to abide by. I get why some would think that way, but that's just not how it works with shared property. I bought a condo in a building that was already 13 years old. We're going to be replacing the siding soon and I don't get to go "oh you can only charge me for 5/18 of the cost since I only bought 5 years ago". If roads in a city need to be redone and they raise taxes to do so - you can't just tell the city you just moved there so you shouldn't be taxed as much. They bought property on a private road, therefore they bought into having to maintain the road. This is a great time to get the road maintenance into a formal agreement so the next buyers explicitly know this and so they don't have to waste time figuring out how to maintain the road in the future.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 17, 2019 12:18:10 GMT -5
Are the new homes sold? If not, there is an opportunity for some of the cost to be rolled into the purchase price.
Are there "lots" that can be developed in the future? I am thinking that if there are, there could be motivation for setting up costs to be part of construction this time so that next time ....
Maybe, "Hey folks, we need to make an agreement for ourselves or we might end up having to deal with lawyers and governmental officials" could be an additional motivator.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 17, 2019 12:39:54 GMT -5
To hoops' point if I'm a new owner I realize construction vehicles contributed to the condition of the road but I'm not keen on paying more for damage done by the vehicles of the other owners before I got there. If it were me I'd just hope all owners are willing to split the cost. After that as someone else mentioned I'd look to get an agreement in place about future maintenance. If you want owners further down the road to pay more they may not like the thought of that so focus on just getting the road fixed first. If there's more builds in the future then you hopefully have an agreement in place that the new owners have to abide by. I get why some would think that way, but that's just not how it works with shared property. I bought a condo in a building that was already 13 years old. We're going to be replacing the siding soon and I don't get to go "oh you can only charge me for 5/18 of the cost since I only bought 5 years ago". If roads in a city need to be redone and they raise taxes to do so - you can't just tell the city you just moved there so you shouldn't be taxed as much. They bought property on a private road, therefore they bought into having to maintain the road. This is a great time to get the road maintenance into a formal agreement so the next buyers explicitly know this and so they don't have to waste time figuring out how to maintain the road in the future. That's not what I was saying. My point was you can't reasonably stick them with a higher cost to fix the road because of what damage may have happened due to construction vehicles. If you tried to pin that on me I would push back and say there was damage done before I got there and you can't prove just how much was done during construction. I'd be more than happy paying 1/10 of the cost but I'm not paying more which is what some of the other posters were talking about.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jun 17, 2019 12:45:41 GMT -5
Are the new homes sold? If not, there is an opportunity for some of the cost to be rolled into the purchase price. Are there "lots" that can be developed in the future? I am thinking that if there are, there could be motivation for setting up costs to be part of construction this time so that next time .... Maybe, "Hey folks, we need to make an agreement for ourselves or we might end up having to deal with lawyers and governmental officials" could be an additional motivator. No more lots to be developed. The new homes were both built by the same guy -- and he lives in one and rents the other. He owns the contruction company.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 17, 2019 12:50:59 GMT -5
To hoops' point if I'm a new owner I realize construction vehicles contributed to the condition of the road but I'm not keen on paying more for damage done by the vehicles of the other owners before I got there. If it were me I'd just hope all owners are willing to split the cost. After that as someone else mentioned I'd look to get an agreement in place about future maintenance. If you want owners further down the road to pay more they may not like the thought of that so focus on just getting the road fixed first. If there's more builds in the future then you hopefully have an agreement in place that the new owners have to abide by. I get why some would think that way, but that's just not how it works with shared property. I bought a condo in a building that was already 13 years old. We're going to be replacing the siding soon and I don't get to go "oh you can only charge me for 5/18 of the cost since I only bought 5 years ago". If roads in a city need to be redone and they raise taxes to do so - you can't just tell the city you just moved there so you shouldn't be taxed as much. They bought property on a private road, therefore they bought into having to maintain the road. This is a great time to get the road maintenance into a formal agreement so the next buyers explicitly know this and so they don't have to waste time figuring out how to maintain the road in the future. That's not the point being made though, it's not that we think the new owners should pay less than the fair share...we're saying you shouldn't be going after the new owners to pay more than everyone else just because their trucks happened to be the big trucks on the road once the road finally failed. They should pay their share, but probably not more just because it was their trucks on it most recently when it happened to fall apart.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 17, 2019 12:55:13 GMT -5
Thank you everyone for your ideas -- and keep them coming! I ask because I honestly don't know what would be considered "fair". I would be happy to pay our portion, if the neighbors can all agree to a method. I would like it fixed, and I do hope we can put something in place to help with future issues. So let's start with: 1. Are the houses roughly evenly spaced? 2. Starting at the entry point, what would your house number be?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 17, 2019 12:55:50 GMT -5
The owner's construction company should pay for it. It is a write off for the company.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 17, 2019 12:56:25 GMT -5
Are the new homes sold? If not, there is an opportunity for some of the cost to be rolled into the purchase price. Are there "lots" that can be developed in the future? I am thinking that if there are, there could be motivation for setting up costs to be part of construction this time so that next time .... Maybe, "Hey folks, we need to make an agreement for ourselves or we might end up having to deal with lawyers and governmental officials" could be an additional motivator. No more lots to be developed. The new homes were both built by the same guy -- and he lives in one and rents the other. He owns the contruction company.
I would invite all 12 households together for a group meeting about the road. Get a few more quotes on paving the road - see if someone will quote just patching the holes, rather than a whole paving job. Since the two new houses are owned by a guy who has a construction company, see if he can get a discount on the paving.
Then put it to a vote and see what the majority want to do. At the same time, see if you can get everyone to agree on a 'road rules' document that provides for everyone paying an annual fee to a 'repair fund' kitty. This would also be a good time to insert other proactive rules - can people park along the road, for instance, or park their RV there and let someone live in it? If someone has a load of concrete delivered and it damages the road, should they pay for the repair? Could you make some allowances for people on fixed incomes not to have to pay into the road fund?
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