abovewater
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Post by abovewater on Jun 11, 2019 17:58:25 GMT -5
How does someone legally take control of their parent(s)' finances? I ask because lately my mom (in her mid-70s) has been managing her money poorly, showing some unwise spending/donating habits, and falling a little behind on her bills. She has plenty of income & assets (monthly pension, 401K & IRA), but she seems to be overspending, and not keeping track of due dates well enough. The kicker: Today she asked to borrow money from me to get through to her next IRA disbursement. First time anything like that has ever happened.
My sister and I are seriously wondering if our mom is losing her competence to handle her own money.
I'm sure the first step is 'consult an attorney', but I thought I'd ask the big picture question here. Thanks for any input!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 11, 2019 18:39:24 GMT -5
There are a couple of ways; 1. Become a co-owner of the bank accounts so you can write checks on her behalf and set up regular bill pay on-line. Obtain Power of Attorney for other financial matters. This step assumes she agrees that she needs help. Have you had a frank conversation with her and your sister about your mom's situation? 2. Obtain conservatorship if she's really having problems. That's a legal process which goes before the court whereby she's declared mentally incompetent to handle her own affairs. You definitely want an attorney's help for the process. countrygirl can tell you the process she went through. This is likely a state by state by process therefore you'll need to investigate your state's process.
FWIW, I have a POA for my father and my husband and I have POAs for my MIL. My MIL is definitely declining mentally but I think she's still "with it" enough that she would pass a competency test.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jun 12, 2019 0:16:15 GMT -5
Do you really need legal control, or can you offer to help with tracking payments and writing checks, and in that fashion provide the assistance your Mother seems to need?
My Aunt and Uncle assist another of my uncles who is over 90 years old. My Aunt keeps track of the bills and writes the checks. Then my elderly uncle signs them. Not a legal arrangement, but gives the younger Aunt and Uncle oversight over the elder Uncle’s finances.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 12, 2019 0:53:14 GMT -5
Depends, if she is susceptible to some unsavory types, like pastors wanting to get their claws into her then you may want to protect her.
I would contact an elder care and/or estate planner and have a talk. We knew MIL was past doing, she had asked neighbors to pay her bills etc. They finally told her that was family that needed to help. She was paying stuff over and over and didn't know it. She was always not one to say anything about finances. They said she started showing them money she had in her wallet. I went to pay taxes one time and they asked if she was related to us. The lady said I'm so concerned, she pulled out a big wade of money to pay her taxes and had a lot more. We were up there at that time and I asked her about it, she said oh its just some ones. I said well lets count it and see. She had $6000 in a roll in her purse!! I talked her into depositing most of it into her checking account. I think she did realize she was losing it and put some accounts into hubs name. We still had to go the guardianship route though as we had to get her in assisted living, she has dementia. I guess we caught it at a good time as it went ok. It cost us about $2000 for each, she and DD to do so. But we are set up legally, I have to prepare accountings of their money for the court every 2 years, this is Indiana.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 12, 2019 15:55:33 GMT -5
When we got POA for my mother she had to agree to it and sign the form giving us authority to manage her money for her.
If your mom thinks she's doing just fine, you'll have to talk to a lawyer about having her declared incompetent, but that's very hard and will generate a lot of hard feelings with your mom. Maybe better, if she refuses to do the POA, to offer to balance her check book, write out her checks for her to sign, etc. Then you can help keep an eye on it, but she's still in charge.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 12, 2019 17:22:48 GMT -5
It depends, MIL really didn't know what was going on. I couldn't believe they let that happen. Honestly it was to easy, which makes you wonder how some people can be duped. I wondered if she got in one of her moods and started cussing everyone out and said she wasn't going to stay there or something what would they do?
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abovewater
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Post by abovewater on Jun 17, 2019 18:49:39 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies & insight! I'm already on my mom's checking account, which is how I'm aware of some of her 'concerning' account activity. Our main issue comes from decades of her preaching (and living) diligent financial habits...always balancing your checkbook, paying bills early, living within your means, etc... The last couple years, she's shown some carefree spending habits that really contrast the kind of behavior we'd expect to see. We're also pretty sure she's getting scammed, but we're still in the information-gathering phase. Is it due to age/health? Is it a three-quarter life crisis? Who knows (Sorry for the delayed response...didn't have a chance to get on here over the weekend.)
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jun 17, 2019 19:45:03 GMT -5
Elders usually are inactive and have lots of time alone with daytime TV. Thru bordom, they start ordering things from Publishers Clearing House (in hopes of winning the Big one). You see magnets, trinkets, PCH catalogs. And as country girl said - pastors, especially TV pastors. Lots of money goes to contributions - and elders often forget how often they are sending things. So, in general, watch the mail, both incoming and outgoing - its an early warning that things are going wrong.
And unsavory annuity sales. A 'trusted' banker sent a limo to pickup our aging aunt & uncle, took them to a fancy dinner, sold them each annuities. More than once. Those were definitely improper investments for people in their mid-ninties.We had quite a time untangling that mess after they passed.
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jitterbug
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Post by jitterbug on Jun 18, 2019 9:26:25 GMT -5
Elders usually are inactive and have lots of time alone with daytime TV. Thru bordom, they start ordering things from Publishers Clearing House (in hopes of winning the Big one). You see magnets, trinkets, PCH catalogs. And as country girl said - pastors, especially TV pastors. Lots of money goes to contributions - and elders often forget how often they are sending things. So, in general, watch the mail, both incoming and outgoing - its an early warning that things are going wrong.
And unsavory annuity sales. A 'trusted' banker sent a limo to pickup our aging aunt & uncle, took them to a fancy dinner, sold them each annuities. More than once. Those were definitely improper investments for people in their mid-ninties.We had quite a time untangling that mess after they passed.
I think Publishers Clearing House has cleaned up their act a little due to some pressure - but quite a few years ago when they were at their worst, my mom was convinced that they would be showing up at her house and missed a social gathering on the day they were due to give away the prize money and sat at her house in her nice clothes, waiting for them to show up! How sad. She also got a lot of donation solicitations from "Americans With Cancer" or other places with similar names to legitimate organizations - and she'd send them $5 and a note that said "please don't ask me for anymore." Well, yeah - now they've got a live sucker on their hands - your mail will now multiply!! And she was living on just $1000 a month! Or QVC - after she died, we found boxes of stuff hanging around.
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jitterbug
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Post by jitterbug on Jun 18, 2019 10:11:45 GMT -5
Kind of along the same lines of conversation...my husband will be the financial power of attorney, health care power of attorney and executor of his parents' estate. They are 75 and 78. Dad is in great health and has good genes to live a long and productive life. Mom is seriously failing. I told my husband recently that he really needs to have the conversation with his dad soon as to "what do you have and where do you have it?" - because if dad would suddenly become incapacitated, it'll become my husband's job to handle everything. He doesn't need to get deep into their business - but I told him he at least needs to know where their income comes from and where they have accounts. It will certainly make things much easier if the toll of caring for mom suddenly creates an issue with him! But he hesitates to initiate that conversation.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 18, 2019 10:20:05 GMT -5
Kind of along the same lines of conversation...my husband will be the financial power of attorney, health care power of attorney and executor of his parents' estate. They are 75 and 78. Dad is in great health and has good genes to live a long and productive life. Mom is seriously failing. I told my husband recently that he really needs to have the conversation with his dad soon as to "what do you have and where do you have it?" - because if dad would suddenly become incapacitated, it'll become my husband's job to handle everything. He doesn't need to get deep into their business - but I told him he at least needs to know where their income comes from and where they have accounts. It will certainly make things much easier if the toll of caring for mom suddenly creates an issue with him! But he hesitates to initiate that conversation. I second this, do it as soon as possible. My dad did EVERYTHING financial for my parents (for them, for their portfolio of rental houses, everything). He developed severe dementia essentially overnight. He refused to have any of these conversations while he was healthy, he didn't want to talk about money, he didn't want to make a will, etc. Thankfully in a moment of lucidity he logged into his laptop in front of me and I happened to see part of his password since it was the name of a grandchild and some relevant numbers (thankfully I saw enough to give it a few good guesses). 30 seconds after he did it, he couldn't remember it to write it down for us. That allowed us to get into his email that he couldn't remember his password to but had it saved in the computer, which gave us emails from different institutions he had money with to at least know where to look. My wife's parents are kind of similarly secretive about their finances, but they're in much better shape if something happens. They have a financial advisor, and they're open enough to say "if something happens, this is the person who knows everything". With my parents it was "everything is in dad's brain, and that's the only place it currently resides" which has left a lot of work once that one place disappears.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 18, 2019 11:27:43 GMT -5
Kind of along the same lines of conversation...my husband will be the financial power of attorney, health care power of attorney and executor of his parents' estate. They are 75 and 78. Dad is in great health and has good genes to live a long and productive life. Mom is seriously failing. I told my husband recently that he really needs to have the conversation with his dad soon as to "what do you have and where do you have it?" - because if dad would suddenly become incapacitated, it'll become my husband's job to handle everything. He doesn't need to get deep into their business - but I told him he at least needs to know where their income comes from and where they have accounts. It will certainly make things much easier if the toll of caring for mom suddenly creates an issue with him! But he hesitates to initiate that conversation. My parents never told us much about their finances. When mom realized that her health was failing, she initiated the conversation and added both my sister and I as joint tenants to all of their bank accounts. They were not well off, so all of their money is in the same bank. We are joint tenants with dad on everything but the IRA. We are beneficiaries on it. I have online access to dad's bank account since he wants to pay his own bills. He writes a check the same day the bill arrives. I get an email notification every time a check hits the bank and by the next morning, I can see the check image to see who the payee is.
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garion2003
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Post by garion2003 on Jun 18, 2019 11:32:27 GMT -5
Elders usually are inactive and have lots of time alone with daytime TV. Thru bordom, they start ordering things from Publishers Clearing House (in hopes of winning the Big one). You see magnets, trinkets, PCH catalogs. And as country girl said - pastors, especially TV pastors. Lots of money goes to contributions - and elders often forget how often they are sending things. So, in general, watch the mail, both incoming and outgoing - its an early warning that things are going wrong.
And unsavory annuity sales. A 'trusted' banker sent a limo to pickup our aging aunt & uncle, took them to a fancy dinner, sold them each annuities. More than once. Those were definitely improper investments for people in their mid-ninties.We had quite a time untangling that mess after they passed.
Ditto on the PCH stuff! but first some background:
My parents are 77 (dad) and 80 (mom) and dad used to do all of their finances. As I realized he was starting to have memory issues, I took over things related to the house. I've taken some other steps over the past few years:
1. I set up 'gmail' account in "his" name for alerts and notifications. He does not have access to the account (he doesn't really use email, he constantly forgets passwords). But this allows me to keep his notifications separate from my own.
2. set up online access to his credit cards. He still gets paper statements and pays by phone, but this way I can track his balances and his payments. I often will need to remind him when a payment is due. I have email and text alerts set up on all his accounts.
3. set up auto pay for recurring expenses like the electric bill, mom's cell phone.
4. check his credit union activity (he goes in almost every day online to see what his balance is. This proved easier than reconciling with his check register, as he quickly got out of sync and confused). Mom and dad each have a checking account and I am now listed on both.
I do have Power of Attorney but am using these other methods to get by until such time as I need to really use it.
Regarding PCH, dad was ordering things and then forgetting he ordered them. Then he and mom were taking the packages to the post office, and paying postage to have them sent back. I finally called PCH and explained the situation (to a supervisor). They were very helpful, told me they were cancelling the account, to keep the items and not have him pay for them, AND they were putting a block on the account so future orders would not be processed. We will see, but I felt hopeful. Of course, after I told my parents not to pay to send things back, I intercepted them trying to return something.
My dad also wants to contribute to every charity that sends him a letter!! he's always been generous, but they live on a fixed income and don't (IMHO) have the money to spare, especially as they give to their church. I've started to tell mom to intercept the mail and discard the solicitations. I've tried to get him removed from mailing lists but of course that never works. The next step is to make a list of the all the worthy causes he does want to support, and divvy up a fixed amount and help him stick to it "No dad, you already gave to them this year" or "You decided to give to XXX instead of YYY this year". So we'll see how that goes.
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