Deck stair design

[ArchietheDragon]

Curious if any of you know about designing deck stairs.  We are replacing our decking and railings.  For the most part we are just replacing what is there, so no need to change anything.  But we want to add a new set of stairs.  We want to design them as box or platform stairs with a series of concentric boxes sitting on top of each other.  

The deck is 24 inches off the ground and for aesthetics I want the stairs to begin 60 inches away from the lattice of the deck. So I am looking at a total rise of 24 inches with a total run of 60 inches. I am trying to decide between a 4 riser stairway or a 5 riser stairway. The 4 riser stair would be made from 3 boxes each a total of 6 inches high and tread depths of 20 inches. The 5 riser stair would be made from 4 boxes each 4.80 inches high and tread depths of 15 inches.



I was original leaning towards the 4 riser stair. But in doing some research I found that the rule of thumb for deck stair safety is for the tread plus two risers to equal between 24 and 26 inches. The 4 riser stair equals 32 inches in that formula while the 5 riser stair equals 24.60. So based on that rule of thumb formula I have changed to leaning toward the 5 riser stairs.

I definitely don't want to design a stair that is not safe, but I am also not sure I want to hire an architect for this one small element.   We are hiring a contractor to do the work, but I am not sure I want to contractor designing it, either. 

Thoughts about either  or anything?

[Chocolate Lover]

What do your local codes require? The rest is kind of moot if it doesn't meet their standards. 

[tractor]

Standard stair height is 8-inches. However, as long as they are all close to the same height it doesn’t matter. The worst thing you can do is have varying heights, they are very hard to walk up or down because your left guessing when your foot will hit.

[Tiny]

Can you measure other people's deck steps? Or steps at a public place that appoximate what you want to do? I've seen assorted sample scenarios (walls, patios, steps, fire pits) at the local home improvement Big Box stores. Could you get the people at the home improvement store to help you mock up something in the store? Heck, you could probably do it yourself before any of the "help" came over to help you... (ok, I'm bitter because I'm invisible... someday you may read about "woman arrested for public nudity in Big Box store" in an attempt to get the attention of someone who worked at the store. I swear I will have to get naked and jump up and down and scream to get noticed/get someone to help me find what I need or get something off a shelf). Could you "mock up" your step height and depth at home (with blocks/wood) you have at home? I'd definitely find out what your local codes are for deck stairs before you start your project.

[gambler]

I became a big fan of ramps. Much easier to build and  to get things , people up and down.

[laterbloomer]

Which tread depth is the most comfortable? They both seem odd to me, too wide for one step and too narrow for 2 steps.

[TheOtherMe]

My mind would need the depth and width to be the same or I would be falling.  

[oped]

4.8 inches is short. And r + R close to 20 is a little high for two at a time. It will likely feel a bit wonky.

[ArchietheDragon]

Thanks everybody.   For code, as far as I can tell the code calls for a max riser height of 8.25 inches and a minimum of 4 inches.  The depth of the tread is a minimum of 11 inches.  So both versions would fit the code, but to the point laterbloomer made, are either of them comfortable?  I don't want to build a set of stairs that you have take a step and a little half step.   I think I need to build a mock up like Tiny suggested.  A bunch of 2x6s and some 1/2" ply will get me a mock up very close to the 4 riser stair I first thought I wanted.    

[ArchietheDragon]

Jun 12, 2019 9:27:46 GMT -5 oped said:

4.8 inches is short. And r + R close to 20 is a little high for two at a time. It will likely feel a bit wonky.

thanks Oped.  What about the first version?   6 in height and r + R at 26?  

[bean29]

There are some houses in my neighborhood with full/partial exposures where they put a ramp from the front of the house to the back deck. I always admired it. My parent's house had a small deck in the front with both steps and a ramp (Dad was in a wheelchair)   After Dad passed, my Mom decided that she did not want to have to re-stain the deck every couple of years, so when it needed to be re-built my bother ordered the composite resin decking, and they took the ramp portion out. Mom said one of her friends has hip problems and really misses the ramp.

When DH and I rebuilt our deck we were going to get composite resin, but we went cheap and bought cedar instead when we saw the difference in price.  We are sorry, we wish we had gone with the composite

resin stuff.

Can you do a two or three level deck, so the steps each have and area of seating/functionality?  Last house we pretty much had a full exposure so we had upper and lower deck with stairs with a turn, this house is a partial exposure, (I think just short of 5 feet, so I think we have about 7 steps), at this house our lower deck is a paver patio.

[oped]

Jun 12, 2019 9:36:02 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Jun 12, 2019 9:27:46 GMT -5 oped said:

4.8 inches is short. And r + R close to 20 is a little high for two at a time. It will likely feel a bit wonky.

thanks Oped.  What about the first version?   6 in height and r + R at 26?  

6 is more natural than 4 you probably wouldn’t be as tempted to take them 2 at a time so it wouldn’t matter that 26 is too long for a single stride. 

[ArchietheDragon]

Jun 12, 2019 9:51:56 GMT -5 oped said:

Jun 12, 2019 9:36:02 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

thanks Oped.  What about the first version?   6 in height and r + R at 26?  

6 is more natural than 4 you probably wouldn’t be as tempted to take them 2 at a time so it wouldn’t matter that 26 is too long for a single stride. 

thanks.   I am going to mock up this version and see how it feels. 

[oped]

You could also try the 4.8 with a slightly shorter tread? If you are doing mock ups. Why not 8 inch? 

The first  step is straight from the deck? So the Rise over 60 then minus the first step? 

[oped]

How long do treads need to be to avoid a railing? And is a railing avoidable with less than 3 stairs under your code? 

How about drop one 8 inch at start, one in middle, one at end with 30 inch between? Or drop one immediately, go 46 inches and drop two? 

[ArchietheDragon]

Jun 12, 2019 10:08:48 GMT -5 oped said:

How long do treads need to be to avoid a railing? And is a railing avoidable with less than 3 stairs under your code? 

How about drop one 8 inch at start, one in middle, one at end with 30 inch between? Or drop one immediately, go 46 inches and drop two? 

I am not sure about the railing....  We are not putting one in, whether that is to code not.    I have read a few things about not needing a railing of the total rise is less than 30 inches, but I also can't tell if I am reading old material or not.   


I hadn't thought of creating a wider platform like that in the middle.... hmmmm..  back to drawing board. 

[billisonboard]

Jun 11, 2019 14:45:02 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

... for aesthetics I want ...

Thoughts about either  or anything?

A thought:


Seems like if you let go of this, all the complexity disappears.

[ArchietheDragon]

Jun 12, 2019 10:21:59 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 11, 2019 14:45:02 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

... for aesthetics I want ...

Thoughts about either  or anything?

A thought:


Seems like if you let go of this, all the complexity disappears.

I'm from New England. If it is easy it is not worth doing

[engineerdoe]

Jun 12, 2019 10:18:15 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Jun 12, 2019 10:08:48 GMT -5 oped said:

How long do treads need to be to avoid a railing? And is a railing avoidable with less than 3 stairs under your code? 

How about drop one 8 inch at start, one in middle, one at end with 30 inch between? Or drop one immediately, go 46 inches and drop two? 

I am not sure about the railing....  We are not putting one in, whether that is to code not.    I have read a few things about not needing a railing of the total rise is less than 30 inches, but I also can't tell if I am reading old material or not.   


I hadn't thought of creating a wider platform like that in the middle.... hmmmm..  back to drawing board. 

You only need a handrail if the total height of the stairs is over 30 inches.  Typical stairs that "feel" right to everybody is 7" rise with a 11" tread. 

I would go with the four boxes you want to build with the 6" rise (minimum step height by code) and shorten the tread to maybe 14"-16" if you can make that work.  The length of the stair along your deck is up to you.

[ripvanwinkle]

I had Home depot design my deck stair. Check with Lowes also.

[ArchietheDragon]

Here is the mock up. It feels fine to walk up and down to me. Not awkward at all. I think it may come out a little far though. I think 6 inches to a foot in would be better. Thoughts?

[ArchietheDragon]

www.flickr.com/photos/83922272@N00/48083506268/in/dateposted-public/