djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2019 10:02:27 GMT -5
that makes no sense, imo. why would you not wish to give anti-socialists asylum? do you REALLY think that they should be punished for the views of the majority? that is like saying Solzhenitsyn should have been left to rot in a Soviet gulag.
It makes sense. Because we have no way of knowing what they desire. Except escaping from their own failed attempt at utopia. Humanitarian crisis gets used a lot. Even you know that we are not punishing them for limiting access to this country. That would imply we have a duty to the whole world, to care for these denizens of failed countries. We don't. I feel our duty is to make sure the same thing doesn't happen here. ok. there is a lot to address here.....
first of all, there absolute is a way of knowing. you can put them through the US asylum process, which is rigorous. they will determine where the person is coming from and whether they are in danger returning. it is not actually that difficult, if you have good enough international intelligence, and ours is quite good. I am sure "humanitarian crisis" is used a lot. but in the case of those coming from Guatemala, it is their desire to avoid gang violence that gets used a lot, and it is quite often true.
I never claimed that we were punishing them. but I also feel our asylum process is adequate. you don't seem to.
why not?
PS- what do you mean "same thing"? socialism? that is crazy talk in the US. if you mean fascism, then yes, we need to make sure that doesn't happen here.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2019 10:03:43 GMT -5
They way over did and put incompetents in the jobs, sound familiar? They just opened the borders to let Venezuelans out to go to Columbia, and I doubt trump will recognize their claims. He doesn't want to recognize anybodies. Funny how all this was under control under Obama now its going crazy. It is a disaster because trump started screaming about a wall, then the surge began. He created a crisis to have to solve just like he did for the farmers. But he is going to bankrupt them. "Over did it" is just the next step after reasonable. "Now it's going crazy" isn't how the Democrats portray the illegal immigration. Whatever happened to open borders to help these poor people. I have yet to meet a single Democrat that suggested open borders. so, I am guessing that what happened to that idea is that it never existed, except in the minds of Republicans, and perhaps colonialists in the early 19th century.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 10, 2019 11:03:23 GMT -5
"Over did it" is just the next step after reasonable. "Now it's going crazy" isn't how the Democrats portray the illegal immigration. Whatever happened to open borders to help these poor people. I have yet to meet a single Democrat that suggested open borders. so, I am guessing that what happened to that idea is that it never existed, except in the minds of Republicans, and perhaps colonialists in the early 19th century.
Fake news!
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jun 10, 2019 11:25:14 GMT -5
""I have yet to meet a single Democrat that suggested open borders.""
lol, not a single democrat?? If we Repubs were counting Dem lies, than we count that?? Did you happen to catch Donald on Squawk Box this morning? On the Economy he is so far ahead of anything we have seen from the Dems that it is scary? They are babbling about whether bakers must bake cakes for gay couples, whether Booker should gibe $1000 to babies, whether Roe-Wade should be re-litigated, yada. Then Bernie did his skit about the wonders of Utopia, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 12:22:15 GMT -5
It makes sense. Because we have no way of knowing what they desire. Except escaping from their own failed attempt at utopia. Humanitarian crisis gets used a lot. Even you know that we are not punishing them for limiting access to this country. That would imply we have a duty to the whole world, to care for these denizens of failed countries. We don't. I feel our duty is to make sure the same thing doesn't happen here. ok. there is a lot to address here.....
first of all, there absolute is a way of knowing. you can put them through the US asylum process, which is rigorous. they will determine where the person is coming from and whether they are in danger returning. it is not actually that difficult, if you have good enough international intelligence, and ours is quite good. I am sure "humanitarian crisis" is used a lot. but in the case of those coming from Guatemala, it is their desire to avoid gang violence that gets used a lot, and it is quite often true.
I never claimed that we were punishing them. but I also feel our asylum process is adequate. you don't seem to.
why not?
PS- what do you mean "same thing"? socialism? that is crazy talk in the US. if you mean fascism, then yes, we need to make sure that doesn't happen here.
I think our asylum process is adequate also. It just can't seem to handle large groups at one time. I don't think it was ever meant for that. Misread the punishing line in your post. Agree on fascism.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 12:25:53 GMT -5
"Over did it" is just the next step after reasonable. "Now it's going crazy" isn't how the Democrats portray the illegal immigration. Whatever happened to open borders to help these poor people. I have yet to meet a single Democrat that suggested open borders. so, I am guessing that what happened to that idea is that it never existed, except in the minds of Republicans, and perhaps colonialists in the early 19th century.
I have. We must know different Democrats.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 12:40:00 GMT -5
I have yet to meet a single Democrat that suggested open borders. so, I am guessing that what happened to that idea is that it never existed, except in the minds of Republicans, and perhaps colonialists in the early 19th century.
Fake news!The depth of your answer is astounding ! Who DJ meets, does not encompass a good portion of the 72 Million registered Democrats that live in this country. I'm guessing you would like similar answers like your 'fake news' in the future ? No crying 'troll' when it happens, lol.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2019 13:01:02 GMT -5
""I have yet to meet a single Democrat that suggested open borders.""
lol, not a single democrat?? If we Repubs were counting Dem lies, than we count that??
sure.
I have not met a single Democrat who has ever suggested "open borders". not....one.
nor have I met one that lied about it.
so, yeah. let's see some proof. because candidly, I am getting a bit weary of this canard.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2019 13:02:45 GMT -5
The depth of your answer is astounding ! Who DJ meets, does not encompass a good portion of the 72 Million registered Democrats that live in this country. it only takes meeting about 300 to form a decent sample. and yes, I have met that many.
again, if you have ANY proof to offer, then please post it. otherwise, I am suggesting that your canard is meritless.
please feel free to prove me wrong.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2019 13:05:17 GMT -5
I have yet to meet a single Democrat that suggested open borders. so, I am guessing that what happened to that idea is that it never existed, except in the minds of Republicans, and perhaps colonialists in the early 19th century.
I have. We must know different Democrats. really?
so you have met a Democrat that said that we should basically have no border checkpoints, and people should just be allowed to flow over the border without identifying themselves?
again, I think that is absurd, and I would be "astounded" (to use your word) if you could produce such an individual.
or do you mean something OTHER than "open" when you say "open"?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 10, 2019 15:03:08 GMT -5
I have. We must know different Democrats. really?
so you have met a Democrat that said that we should basically have no border checkpoints, and people should just be allowed to flow over the border without identifying themselves?
again, I think that is absurd, and I would be "astounded" (to use your word) if you could produce such an individual.
or do you mean something OTHER than "open" when you say "open"?
Would that mean we could scrap immigration and customs for international flights? Why check them there if we aren't going to check 'em in Nogales?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 10, 2019 15:09:25 GMT -5
The depth of your answer is astounding ! Who DJ meets, does not encompass a good portion of the 72 Million registered Democrats that live in this country. I'm guessing you would like similar answers like your 'fake news' in the future ? No crying 'troll' when it happens, lol. Help me out here. Is there a specific politician who is advocating for absolutely no border enforcement? Or even anything that is called "open border"? Anyone on the federal, state or local level would do. If you can't find an elected official, is there an activist group that has set a goal and a plan for how an open border would work? People say stuff without really thinking through their statement, but if someone has gone to the point of making it part of their platform (political or activist) that means there is some thought behind it. Please help me find that person.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2019 12:03:41 GMT -5
I have. We must know different Democrats. really?
so you have met a Democrat that said that we should basically have no border checkpoints, and people should just be allowed to flow over the border without identifying themselves?
again, I think that is absurd, and I would be "astounded" (to use your word) if you could produce such an individual.
or do you mean something OTHER than "open" when you say "open"?
To answer your question, are you saying this is what is required for making it 'not' an open border ? (bolded)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2019 12:20:33 GMT -5
The depth of your answer is astounding ! Who DJ meets, does not encompass a good portion of the 72 Million registered Democrats that live in this country. I'm guessing you would like similar answers like your 'fake news' in the future ? No crying 'troll' when it happens, lol. Help me out here. Is there a specific politician who is advocating for absolutely no border enforcement? Or even anything that is called "open border"? Anyone on the federal, state or local level would do. If you can't find an elected official, is there an activist group that has set a goal and a plan for how an open border would work? People say stuff without really thinking through their statement, but if someone has gone to the point of making it part of their platform (political or activist) that means there is some thought behind it. Please help me find that person. No politician will advocate for an absolute as you describe. We'll only get stuff like this. Quote; Democrats in the state Legislature reached an agreement Sunday afternoon as part of a broader plan to spend $213 billion of state and federal tax money over the next year. The legislature is expected to approve the deal this week. The agreement means low-income adults between the ages of 19 and 25 living in California illegally would be eligible for California's Medicaid program, the joint state and federal health insurance program for the poor and disabled.www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/california-lawmakers-agree-health-benefits-000834318.htmlWhat's the need for entering legally/gaining asylum. ? Having a regulated border, with checkpoints ?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 11, 2019 13:34:15 GMT -5
Help me out here. Is there a specific politician who is advocating for absolutely no border enforcement? Or even anything that is called "open border"? Anyone on the federal, state or local level would do. If you can't find an elected official, is there an activist group that has set a goal and a plan for how an open border would work? People say stuff without really thinking through their statement, but if someone has gone to the point of making it part of their platform (political or activist) that means there is some thought behind it. Please help me find that person. No politician will advocate for an absolute as you describe. ... Because no politician supports what you claim they support.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jun 11, 2019 14:19:40 GMT -5
Fake news, jmax23.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 12, 2019 0:31:41 GMT -5
really?
so you have met a Democrat that said that we should basically have no border checkpoints, and people should just be allowed to flow over the border without identifying themselves?
again, I think that is absurd, and I would be "astounded" (to use your word) if you could produce such an individual.
or do you mean something OTHER than "open" when you say "open"?
To answer your question, are you saying this is what is required for making it 'not' an open border ? (bolded) no. I actually already answered that. I specifically said that is what I think of when you say "open border".
I then asked YOU what you mean if that is not what you mean. you ducked that question. please answer it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 12, 2019 0:33:14 GMT -5
No politician will advocate for an absolute as you describe. ... Because no politician supports what you claim they support. I would bet that no PERSON supports what he claims they support. but I am waiting for him to prove otherwise. I might be surprised. but yes, surprise would be the right response. because that position is utterly insane.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 12, 2019 0:43:43 GMT -5
Because no politician supports what you claim they support. I would bet that no PERSON supports what he claims they support. but I am waiting for him to prove otherwise. I might be surprised. but yes, surprise would be the right response. because that position is utterly insane.
Which is exactly why conservatives try to ascribe it to people....
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 12, 2019 1:49:51 GMT -5
I would bet that no PERSON supports what he claims they support. but I am waiting for him to prove otherwise. I might be surprised. but yes, surprise would be the right response. because that position is utterly insane.
Which is exactly why conservatives try to ascribe it to people.... this is one of the things that I find most perplexing about my former party members.
they seem to believe stuff that doesn't really even pass the sniff test.
I can give you an example. it is one of a thousand I could give, just to illustrate the point.
when the birthers were making a case that Obama was some sort of Manchurian candidate, one of the things they used to say was that at college nobody remembered him. this story was completely false. Obama was not especially popular or memorable at Occidental, but people DID remember him, and said so publicly. but that is the thing about these stupid narratives. they get repeated so often, and without fact checking or seeking out rebuttal, the lies stand.
and so it is, here, imo. if I am wrong, I challenge my former party members to prove it.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jun 12, 2019 2:22:51 GMT -5
Which is exactly why conservatives try to ascribe it to people.... this is one of the things that I find most perplexing about my former party members.
they seem to believe stuff that doesn't really even pass the sniff test.
I can give you an example. it is one of a thousand I could give, just to illustrate the point.
when the birthers were making a case that Obama was some sort of Manchurian candidate, one of the things they used to say was that at college nobody remembered him. this story was completely false. Obama was not especially popular or memorable at Occidental, but people DID remember him, and said so publicly. but that is the thing about these stupid narratives. they get repeated so often, and without fact checking or seeking out rebuttal, the lies stand.
and so it is, here, imo. if I am wrong, I challenge my former party members to prove it.
Are there any principled conservatives left in the Republican Party? The only ones I ever see are the ones lambasting the president and the rest of the party for having no principles.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Jun 12, 2019 4:52:36 GMT -5
this is one of the things that I find most perplexing about my former party members.
they seem to believe stuff that doesn't really even pass the sniff test.
I can give you an example. it is one of a thousand I could give, just to illustrate the point.
when the birthers were making a case that Obama was some sort of Manchurian candidate, one of the things they used to say was that at college nobody remembered him. this story was completely false. Obama was not especially popular or memorable at Occidental, but people DID remember him, and said so publicly. but that is the thing about these stupid narratives. they get repeated so often, and without fact checking or seeking out rebuttal, the lies stand.
and so it is, here, imo. if I am wrong, I challenge my former party members to prove it.
Are there any principled conservatives left in the Republican Party? The only ones I ever see are the ones lambasting the president and the rest of the party for having no principles. Nope! It's turned into the Party of Trump. Just look at two examples here on this board. "everyone lies" and "libs are busy counting President Trump's lies" ~~well, no, everyone doesn't lie. And any conservative knows that.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jun 12, 2019 8:43:42 GMT -5
I know a fair amount of Democrats up here. Not one of them advocates for "Open Borders". It is a right wing wet dream! On the other hand, I was surprised at the number of people who told me last year as I was knocking doors that they DIDN"T believe in open borders (like anyone does?) as they tried to explain their issues with Democratic positions. An indication that the Faux News/ AM tokk radio disinformation campaign does work surprisingly well. Tell me one, just one of them, of your elected people who are serving in D.C. who are telling everyone publicly they, the elected ones in D.C. are solving this crisis and doing something about it rather than just Trump?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 8:50:49 GMT -5
No politician will advocate for an absolute as you describe. ... Because no politician supports what you claim they support. My claim includes my whole post.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 12, 2019 8:54:26 GMT -5
What concerns me is not President Trump's use of tariffs but his use of "emergency powers" to circumvent Congress. "Republican " seems to be becoming "authoritarian". From there it is an easy next step to dictatorial. Save that nonsense for the young kids in elementary school. (bolded) Anyone with a modicum of civic education knows that isn't happening. An opinion piece that lays it out well: Trump doesn't fit our stereotype of foreign dictators — because he's an American authoritarian
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 8:59:54 GMT -5
To answer your question, are you saying this is what is required for making it 'not' an open border ? (bolded) no. I actually already answered that. I specifically said that is what I think of when you say "open border".
I then asked YOU what you mean if that is not what you mean. you ducked that question. please answer it.
I duck nothing. Best re-read my last line in #123. It should of had a question mark, but my tablets auto correct always puts a period when I hit a double space at the end of a sentence. Reading the words show it was a question. The first 3 "Whatever happened to" is kind of a giveaway. Don't be fooled by bills attempt to change context by only leaving one sentence of my post showing when he quotes me, and then taking it out of context. It's lame at best. Hint, the answer to my question is we never had open borders. That's why we have border patrol for quite some time now, and entry checkpoints, and fences/walls. These things are important for controlling entry. What do you think about Medicaid for illegals in California. Think this helps with stopping the flow of illegals ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 9:12:02 GMT -5
No politician will advocate for an absolute as you describe. ... Because no politician supports what you claim they support. What am I claiming ? Link to post is helpful.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 12, 2019 9:21:33 GMT -5
Because no politician supports what you claim they support. What am I claiming ? Link to post is helpful. In following the thread of conversation, it is your claim that Democrats support open borders.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 10:13:45 GMT -5
What am I claiming ? Link to post is helpful. In following the thread of conversation, it is your claim that Democrats support open borders. OK. No link to where I said that. We all have our own perceptions.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 12, 2019 10:57:05 GMT -5
no. I actually already answered that. I specifically said that is what I think of when you say "open border".
I then asked YOU what you mean if that is not what you mean. you ducked that question. please answer it.
I duck nothing. yes you do. I wasn't talking about what you said in post 123. I asked you what you think "open borders" means.
so....what do you think "open borders" means?
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