How much money does it take your soul to turn?

[justme]

So I'm kind of in love with Patriot Act by Hasan Minhaj. It's on Netflix, but they have the episodes on Youtube too as well as behind the scenes stuff (which I also love). His episodes really make you think about things and provide an interesting perspective on things. 

Was watching one of the behind the scenes and it segued from presidential candidates into Hasan saying no billionaire should run for president to how enough money can turn your soul and the question was how much does it take? At what point does having *so much money* makes you not care, don't give a fuck, treat people bad, lose your connection to "real life" and people that aren't insanely rich, etc etc. I think the audience answers were too low, but I'm wondering what everyone else thinks!

The segue starts around 1:20, before that it's just mentioning some candidates. 

[oped]

Have you ever read the monopoly study... it doesn’t have to be much, heck it doesn’t even have to be real money...

[justme]

I'm guessing not. I'm trying to rack my brain, as I only touched on monopoly stuff at school but I think it was all business focused vs I'm assuming this one is on the game and psych. 

[oped]

openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/64539/Radulova%2C%20Mirena-s0793159-MA%20Thesis%20SOP-2018.pdf?sequence=1

[oped]

Actually I think this is the one I wanted... 
nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/

www.businessinsider.com/ted-talk-monopoly-makes-people-mean-2014-8

[oped]

I hope others give their opinions too...

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I have worked at medical centers for most of my career, which meant I walked the same halls as doctors.  One of the things I noticed was that if you were going down a corridor that allowed only one person to pass easily, if 2 doctors were walking together, they would not fall into single file to let another pass, forcing someone coming the other direction to need to plaster themselves to the wall to let them pass.  They would also do this on sidewalks outside too, forcing someone going the opposite direction into the grass.

I started playing chicken with them.  I would not move past my half of the passageway.  It really pissed some of them off, but it was interesting to watch their attitude.  Not scientific, but it seemed to me the residents or trainees tended to get more pissed than the older doctors.

[hoops902]

::At what point does having *so much money* makes you not care, don't give a fuck, treat people bad, lose your connection to "real life" and people that aren't insanely rich, etc etc. I think the audience answers were too low, but I'm wondering what everyone else thinks!::

I think the question is entirely too multi-layered to be able to answer as a whole.  The money level at which someone doesn't "give a fuck" might be very different from the point they start treating people badly, and might also be different from where you lose your connection to real life (all I can think when I hear that is what some rich people think a gallon of milk costs and how crazy the numbers are). 

I think audience answers...or generic answers by the population as a whole...is likely to be low if only because people tend to think someone who has "double what I have" or something similar has "a lot".  

I don't think "enough money" turns your soul honestly.  I think "enough money" just allows you to act the way you want to act.  You might be a total piece of shit human being making very little money, but with little money you might do a better job of cultivating relationships because you NEED people more.  You don't WANT to need people, but you do.  Getting money just enables you to act the way you've always wanted to act.  I do think lots of money causes you to lose connection to "real life" though.  You're connected to what most people are going through because you're going through it.  I think it's also a direct function of the TIME you have with all that money.  If you gave me $100 billion tomorrow, I'd still understand what a gallon of milk costs, how most people have to work for XYZ...but let me have that money for 25 years, put me in social situations where I'm only with other really wealthy people, and absence from the situation would probably make me lose touch with that situation.

I don't think any of that means you "treat people badly"...I just don't think money does that (I think in general people don't really give a shit about other people, it's just not socially acceptable to show it sometimes because it would put you in a bad position and most people care more about their own well-being than their contempt for others).


::I started playing chicken with them. I would not move past my half of the passageway. It really pissed some of them off, but it was interesting to watch their attitude. Not scientific, but it seemed to me the residents or trainees tended to get more pissed than the older doctors.::

That doesn't surprise me, seems similar to "new money".  You get something quickly, and there's an adjustment period where it all goes to your head.

[billisonboard]

May 30, 2019 18:35:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

... it seemed to me the residents or trainees tended to get more pissed than the older doctors.

In the military, it was the young officers you needed to make sure you gave a crisp salute.

[hoops902]

May 31, 2019 8:25:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 30, 2019 18:35:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

... it seemed to me the residents or trainees tended to get more pissed than the older doctors.

In the military, it was the young officers you needed to make sure you gave a crisp salute.

Do you think that's because:

1.  They were young and still had a more rigid view on rules/procedures?
2.  Had a little power go to their head?
3.  Both?

[swamp]

None. I'm already an asshole. 

[billisonboard]

May 31, 2019 8:27:57 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

May 31, 2019 8:25:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

In the military, it was the young officers you needed to make sure you gave a crisp salute.

Do you think that's because:

1.  They were young and still had a more rigid view on rules/procedures?
2.  Had a little power go to their head?
3.  Both?

Insecurity for at least some.

[Value Buy]

$6,666,666,666.66

[justme]

May 31, 2019 8:05:04 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::At what point does having *so much money* makes you not care, don't give a fuck, treat people bad, lose your connection to "real life" and people that aren't insanely rich, etc etc. I think the audience answers were too low, but I'm wondering what everyone else thinks!::

I think the question is entirely too multi-layered to be able to answer as a whole.  The money level at which someone doesn't "give a fuck" might be very different from the point they start treating people badly, and might also be different from where you lose your connection to real life (all I can think when I hear that is what some rich people think a gallon of milk costs and how crazy the numbers are). 

I think audience answers...or generic answers by the population as a whole...is likely to be low if only because people tend to think someone who has "double what I have" or something similar has "a lot".  

I don't think "enough money" turns your soul honestly.  I think "enough money" just allows you to act the way you want to act.  You might be a total piece of shit human being making very little money, but with little money you might do a better job of cultivating relationships because you NEED people more.  You don't WANT to need people, but you do.  Getting money just enables you to act the way you've always wanted to act.  I do think lots of money causes you to lose connection to "real life" though.  You're connected to what most people are going through because you're going through it.  I think it's also a direct function of the TIME you have with all that money.  If you gave me $100 billion tomorrow, I'd still understand what a gallon of milk costs, how most people have to work for XYZ...but let me have that money for 25 years, put me in social situations where I'm only with other really wealthy people, and absence from the situation would probably make me lose touch with that situation.

I don't think any of that means you "treat people badly"...I just don't think money does that (I think in general people don't really give a shit about other people, it's just not socially acceptable to show it sometimes because it would put you in a bad position and most people care more about their own well-being than their contempt for others).


::I started playing chicken with them. I would not move past my half of the passageway. It really pissed some of them off, but it was interesting to watch their attitude. Not scientific, but it seemed to me the residents or trainees tended to get more pissed than the older doctors.::

That doesn't surprise me, seems similar to "new money".  You get something quickly, and there's an adjustment period where it all goes to your head.

I didn't mean to be writing a comprehensive list...he explained it a bit better than me in the clip. Some people will turn and start treating others badly seeing money as the impunity to do horrible things. Though that also begs the question - were they always bad they were just smart enough to realize they couldn't afford to act that way?

The new vs old money makes sense too. Trevor Noah had Oprah on his show and in his in between scenes one of the things he asked her is if she ever runs out of toilet paper. She said never ... and then went on to mention how almost every time she goes in the bathroom the toilet paper has that nice folded triangle you see in the hotels. Maybe on some level she gets how insane that is, but she said it so offhandedly and obviously pays someone money to do that. Makes me start to agree with his statement that these people shouldn't run for office.

[cktc]

May 31, 2019 8:05:04 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::At what point does having *so much money* makes you not care, don't give a fuck, treat people bad, lose your connection to "real life" and people that aren't insanely rich, etc etc. I think the audience answers were too low, but I'm wondering what everyone else thinks!::

I think the question is entirely too multi-layered to be able to answer as a whole.  The money level at which someone doesn't "give a fuck" might be very different from the point they start treating people badly, and might also be different from where you lose your connection to real life (all I can think when I hear that is what some rich people think a gallon of milk costs and how crazy the numbers are). 

I think audience answers...or generic answers by the population as a whole...is likely to be low if only because people tend to think someone who has "double what I have" or something similar has "a lot".  

I don't think "enough money" turns your soul honestly.  I think "enough money" just allows you to act the way you want to act.  You might be a total piece of shit human being making very little money, but with little money you might do a better job of cultivating relationships because you NEED people more.  You don't WANT to need people, but you do.  Getting money just enables you to act the way you've always wanted to act.  I do think lots of money causes you to lose connection to "real life" though.  You're connected to what most people are going through because you're going through it.  I think it's also a direct function of the TIME you have with all that money.  If you gave me $100 billion tomorrow, I'd still understand what a gallon of milk costs, how most people have to work for XYZ...but let me have that money for 25 years, put me in social situations where I'm only with other really wealthy people, and absence from the situation would probably make me lose touch with that situation.

I don't think any of that means you "treat people badly"...I just don't think money does that (I think in general people don't really give a shit about other people, it's just not socially acceptable to show it sometimes because it would put you in a bad position and most people care more about their own well-being than their contempt for others).


::I started playing chicken with them. I would not move past my half of the passageway. It really pissed some of them off, but it was interesting to watch their attitude. Not scientific, but it seemed to me the residents or trainees tended to get more pissed than the older doctors.::

That doesn't surprise me, seems similar to "new money".  You get something quickly, and there's an adjustment period where it all goes to your head.

I agree, I also think people lose touch incrementally. A lot of middle class people know the price of milk and can't fathom how someone might need food stamps to afford it, or why they might prefer a two liter of soda. It seems there is a tendency for people to see themselves as wealthier than they are, like thinking Donald Trump is "one of us". Seeing the commonality with those who have less is much more terrifying. It's easier to see the poor as flawed and less than. 

I used to ride the bus to work, when people comment on jay walkers not "just" using the crosswalk it drives me insane. We live in Phoenix. In the summer it is 100+degrees out. Crosswalks are often a mile apart with no shade in sight. See it from the jaywalkers perspective, that's adding another 20 minutes to their commute to work, in the sun. Maybe lobby the city for another crosswalk if you see frequent jaywalkers rather than just complaining about them.

[countrygirl2]

If I had tons of money like some of these billionaires I would want to give back to my community, make sure we had the best of schools and meaningful programs in them.  Make sure we had things for kids to do to keep them out of trouble in the summer, pools, summer programs, a theater.  If I had enough, work on attracting businesses to employ people at good wages.  We have all kinds of training programs here but the people mostly have to leave the area to find those good paying jobs. But most of all a very good day care center running day and night for working moms staffed with good, trained people for minimal amounts of money.  

I would do what I could to make it a better place for all of us.  But the amount of money I would need would be astronomical.

I always dream if I won one of those big lotteries what good I could do with it.  And particularly for the disabled.  Of course I would make sure our family was set up first, then help others. I have everything I need, I would employ help though as I'm aging, to clean,  a chef, maybe a driver.  And I would travel while I could, don't have many more wants then that.  And be able to have some decent stores to shop in!!

[hoops902]

May 31, 2019 10:01:28 GMT -5 justme said:

May 31, 2019 8:05:04 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::At what point does having *so much money* makes you not care, don't give a fuck, treat people bad, lose your connection to "real life" and people that aren't insanely rich, etc etc. I think the audience answers were too low, but I'm wondering what everyone else thinks!::

I think the question is entirely too multi-layered to be able to answer as a whole.  The money level at which someone doesn't "give a fuck" might be very different from the point they start treating people badly, and might also be different from where you lose your connection to real life (all I can think when I hear that is what some rich people think a gallon of milk costs and how crazy the numbers are). 

I think audience answers...or generic answers by the population as a whole...is likely to be low if only because people tend to think someone who has "double what I have" or something similar has "a lot".  

I don't think "enough money" turns your soul honestly.  I think "enough money" just allows you to act the way you want to act.  You might be a total piece of shit human being making very little money, but with little money you might do a better job of cultivating relationships because you NEED people more.  You don't WANT to need people, but you do.  Getting money just enables you to act the way you've always wanted to act.  I do think lots of money causes you to lose connection to "real life" though.  You're connected to what most people are going through because you're going through it.  I think it's also a direct function of the TIME you have with all that money.  If you gave me $100 billion tomorrow, I'd still understand what a gallon of milk costs, how most people have to work for XYZ...but let me have that money for 25 years, put me in social situations where I'm only with other really wealthy people, and absence from the situation would probably make me lose touch with that situation.

I don't think any of that means you "treat people badly"...I just don't think money does that (I think in general people don't really give a shit about other people, it's just not socially acceptable to show it sometimes because it would put you in a bad position and most people care more about their own well-being than their contempt for others).


::I started playing chicken with them. I would not move past my half of the passageway. It really pissed some of them off, but it was interesting to watch their attitude. Not scientific, but it seemed to me the residents or trainees tended to get more pissed than the older doctors.::

That doesn't surprise me, seems similar to "new money".  You get something quickly, and there's an adjustment period where it all goes to your head.

I didn't mean to be writing a comprehensive list...he explained it a bit better than me in the clip. Some people will turn and start treating others badly seeing money as the impunity to do horrible things. Though that also begs the question - were they always bad they were just smart enough to realize they couldn't afford to act that way?

The new vs old money makes sense too. Trevor Noah had Oprah on his show and in his in between scenes one of the things he asked her is if she ever runs out of toilet paper. She said never ... and then went on to mention how almost every time she goes in the bathroom the toilet paper has that nice folded triangle you see in the hotels. Maybe on some level she gets how insane that is, but she said it so offhandedly and obviously pays someone money to do that. Makes me start to agree with his statement that these people shouldn't run for office.

Personally, I think a better stance is this:  Politicians are rarely billionaires.  And people with no real political experience shouldn't run for office (big offices).  I think it has a lot less to do with losing touch with reality in terms of money, and a lot more to do with being in a position where you're either super successful at something, or have enough money that everyone treats you as if you are.  If within your circle you are considered a god (never wrong, your word is law, etc)...then it stands to reason some of this inevitably leaks into your personality.  That's a hard way to learn a completely new business like politics.

Take a less important example...sports.  Sports teams when purchased are almost always by billionaires or 9-figure millionaires...and inevitably when these people who have been SUPER successful at some aspect of something to accrue their money try to get involved in the team...the team nosedives because this is someone without any knowledge in a business competing against experts in the business.  Sports are like politics, they have their own intricasies, they look a lot like normal businesses but don't actually work like them practically speaking.  Someone who is a BILLIONAIRE is usually not JUST a people-manager, they delegate sure, but they have some inherent knowledge in the underlying business (often because they became a billionaire by starting the business, and have some specific knowledge).  Having inherent knowledge about how...say...Amazon works, and Amazon's business model, it's value proposition, etc...that doesn't do a lot for helping a new owner understand how the salary cap works, how specific chemistry of different individuals works within a game, etc.  Understanding how to run a business is great at the conceptual level...but getting into the details that you won't understand just leads to a trainwreck.

Same concept in politics.  Conceptually being successful at something else might be helpful...but I think it's a lot more about thinking that your success in one field means you will be as good in another random field that you stink in has a lot more to do with why billionaires shouldn't run for office more than the fact that they have a billion dollars.  I want people in politics who understand politics, not people who have been so good in one field that they feel invincible trying anything new rather than actually learning it.

If they want to run for a low office, that's fine.  I don't really want anyone running for the House, Senate, POTUS, etc...who doesn't really understand politics, regardless of how much money they have or don't have.

[cktc]

May 31, 2019 10:15:36 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

If I had tons of money like some of these billionaires I would want to give back to my community, make sure we had the best of schools and meaningful programs in them.  Make sure we had things for kids to do to keep them out of trouble in the summer, pools, summer programs, a theater.  If I had enough, work on attracting businesses to employ people at good wages.  We have all kinds of training programs here but the people mostly have to leave the area to find those good paying jobs. But most of all a very good day care center running day and night for working moms staffed with good, trained people for minimal amounts of money.  

I would do what I could to make it a better place for all of us.  But the amount of money I would need would be astronomical.

I always dream if I won one of those big lotteries what good I could do with it.  And particularly for the disabled.  Of course I would make sure our family was set up first, then help others. I have everything I need, I would employ help though as I'm aging, to clean,  a chef, maybe a driver.  And I would travel while I could, don't have many more wants then that.  And be able to have some decent stores to shop in!!

That's kind of a funny inverse question, how much would it take to make you more generous?

I'm always thinking when I have more I'll give more, but that day may never come. Maybe I need to see charity as a tithe and start contributing a certain percentage now rather than waiting for that next income bump that makes me comfortable enough to not feel a sacrifice.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

May 31, 2019 8:27:57 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

May 31, 2019 8:25:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

In the military, it was the young officers you needed to make sure you gave a crisp salute.

Do you think that's because:

1.  They were young and still had a more rigid view on rules/procedures?
2.  Had a little power go to their head?
3.  Both?

I also saw this with residents when I was hospitalized.  It seemed to me that they were the ones that tried the hardest to bulldoze me.  One tried flat out lying to me to get me to capitulate.  It was pretty funny calling him out on his lies, but I am not totally sure if the bulldozing was due to his position, or my gender.  The one woman resident started giggling when I called him out on his lies, so I have to wonder if some gender arrogance was in the mix too.

[thyme4change]

I haven't watched the show, but I did watch his stand up special, maybe called Prom King or something. It was a long journey through racism and immigration that happened to be funny. I think about it a lot. It was an exceptionally crafted story.

I watched Anthony Jesselnick the next night to clear the thoughtfulness out of my soul and get back to my normal state of selfish assholeness.

[Bonny]

May 31, 2019 8:05:04 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::At what point does having *so much money* makes you not care, don't give a fuck, treat people bad, lose your connection to "real life" and people that aren't insanely rich, etc etc. I think the audience answers were too low, but I'm wondering what everyone else thinks!::

I think the question is entirely too multi-layered to be able to answer as a whole.  The money level at which someone doesn't "give a fuck" might be very different from the point they start treating people badly, and might also be different from where you lose your connection to real life (all I can think when I hear that is what some rich people think a gallon of milk costs and how crazy the numbers are). 

I think audience answers...or generic answers by the population as a whole...is likely to be low if only because people tend to think someone who has "double what I have" or something similar has "a lot".  

I don't think "enough money" turns your soul honestly.  I think "enough money" just allows you to act the way you want to act.  You might be a total piece of shit human being making very little money, but with little money you might do a better job of cultivating relationships because you NEED people more.  You don't WANT to need people, but you do.  Getting money just enables you to act the way you've always wanted to act.  I do think lots of money causes you to lose connection to "real life" though.  You're connected to what most people are going through because you're going through it.  I think it's also a direct function of the TIME you have with all that money.  If you gave me $100 billion tomorrow, I'd still understand what a gallon of milk costs, how most people have to work for XYZ...but let me have that money for 25 years, put me in social situations where I'm only with other really wealthy people, and absence from the situation would probably make me lose touch with that situation.

I don't think any of that means you "treat people badly"...I just don't think money does that (I think in general people don't really give a shit about other people, it's just not socially acceptable to show it sometimes because it would put you in a bad position and most people care more about their own well-being than their contempt for others).


::I started playing chicken with them. I would not move past my half of the passageway. It really pissed some of them off, but it was interesting to watch their attitude. Not scientific, but it seemed to me the residents or trainees tended to get more pissed than the older doctors.::

That doesn't surprise me, seems similar to "new money".  You get something quickly, and there's an adjustment period where it all goes to your head.

I love the expression "Money doesn't make the man it reveals him".

[Ava]

Depends on the person.

Some people would abuse even a tiny bit of power.

I used to see that a lot when I worked fast food or waitressing jobs. Some customers would be extremely rude just because you are serving them and they are sitting at the table.

I always make sure I am nice to all workers because I know the feeling of being ill-treated for no other reason that they could.

[thyme4change]

May 31, 2019 18:50:11 GMT -5 Ava said:

Depends on the person.

Some people would abuse even a tiny bit of power.

I used to see that a lot when I worked fast food or waitressing jobs. Some customers would be extremely rude just because you are serving them and they are sitting at the table.

I always make sure I am nice to all workers because I know the feeling of being ill-treated for no other reason that they could.

I try, but I am one of those people that exude my mood. Sometimes I am so dismissive or whatever because I just can't. I always hope those service people think I'm normal rude, instead of super rude. But, when I am in a good mood, I am very pleasant.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Couple disparate but related thoughts:

1. There are people who do exceedingly good things with extreme wealth, too, although I believe some are still a-holes who use their good deeds to offset how they treat other people.

2. ODS shared a house last year with several kids who come from wealth. ODS physically and financially paid his own rent, managed the utility bills, cleaned up after himself, and called the others out for their crap. The other tenants’ parents paid the rent and fought the landlord on just about every term in the really well-written lease. The other guys moved out a couple of weeks before the lease ended leaving ODS behind alone with rooms filled with furniture, clothing, trash, household items, 2 blow torches(!!!), etc — NONE of it his. He donated what furniture he could, hauled out many bags of trash, made sure his room and bathroom were spotless, and let the landlord inspect before he left. The parents’ attitude is that it’s “just a security deposit” and if the landlord tries to enforce the lease terms, the patents will simply hand the matter over to their attorneys. So, as much as money can turn one’s soul, it apparently also steals the souls and integrity of one’s offspring. (SMH so hard I’m going to get a concussion)

[oped]

May 31, 2019 8:25:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 30, 2019 18:35:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

... it seemed to me the residents or trainees tended to get more pissed than the older doctors.

In the military, it was the young officers you needed to make sure you gave a crisp salute.

Have you ever seen The Happiest Millionaire?

[billisonboard]

Jun 2, 2019 7:14:35 GMT -5 oped said:

May 31, 2019 8:25:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

In the military, it was the young officers you needed to make sure you gave a crisp salute.

Have you ever seen The Happiest Millionaire?

Maybe but certainly not recently enough to have a clue as to its relevance here.

[oped]

lol. There is a song about the nouveau riche vs. old money that this made me think of... not exactly a perfect analogy but oh well...

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 1, 2019 14:28:30 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

Couple disparate but related thoughts:

1. There are people who do exceedingly good things with extreme wealth, too, although I believe some are still a-holes who use their good deeds to offset how they treat other people.

2. ODS shared a house last year with several kids who come from wealth. ODS physically and financially paid his own rent, managed the utility bills, cleaned up after himself, and called the others out for their crap. The other tenants’ parents paid the rent and fought the landlord on just about every term in the really well-written lease. The other guys moved out a couple of weeks before the lease ended leaving ODS behind alone with rooms filled with furniture, clothing, trash, household items, 2 blow torches(!!!), etc — NONE of it his. He donated what furniture he could, hauled out many bags of trash, made sure his room and bathroom were spotless, and let the landlord inspect before he left. The parents’ attitude is that it’s “just a security deposit” and if the landlord tries to enforce the lease terms, the patents will simply hand the matter over to their attorneys. So, as much as money can turn one’s soul, it apparently also steals the souls and integrity of one’s offspring. (SMH so hard I’m going to get a concussion)

Blowtorches?

[Lizard Queen]

May 31, 2019 10:15:36 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

If I had tons of money like some of these billionaires I would want to give back to my community, make sure we had the best of schools and meaningful programs in them.  Make sure we had things for kids to do to keep them out of trouble in the summer, pools, summer programs, a theater.  If I had enough, work on attracting businesses to employ people at good wages.  We have all kinds of training programs here but the people mostly have to leave the area to find those good paying jobs. But most of all a very good day care center running day and night for working moms staffed with good, trained people for minimal amounts of money.  

I would do what I could to make it a better place for all of us.  But the amount of money I would need would be astronomical.

I always dream if I won one of those big lotteries what good I could do with it.  And particularly for the disabled.  Of course I would make sure our family was set up first, then help others. I have everything I need, I would employ help though as I'm aging, to clean,  a chef, maybe a driver.  And I would travel while I could, don't have many more wants then that.  And be able to have some decent stores to shop in!!

I used to dream about winning a big lottery, too, and how I would help people with it.  Now, I'd rather win a small lottery, remain anonymous, and save myself the headache.  The people I wanted to help are dead and gone, while the ones remaining that would have their hands out don't really deserve my help. 

I love your ideas for helping the community, though.  I also read about some of the great programs MPL has available to her in her area, and wish there were folks who did that in my community.  One thing i dreamed about is buying up blighted properties, and returning them to their natural state for the wildlife.  That would probably just piss people off, though.  I feel like developers always seem to look at disturbing undeveloped land, so at least this would bring some of that back.  Swap it out, help the environment, or make these areas look appealing again for development or just in general.

[countrygirl2]

That's what always gets me they talk about billionaires giving back their fortunes.  I think that's stupid you are making people wait for handouts.  Why not just pay your workers more and let them enjoy the fruits of their labors.  They will spend it in their communities or save it making many and everything better.  So be willing to be just a multi millionaire instead of a billionaire?  Those people are making them what they are so let them have good lives too.  I told hubs we will never be that rich, LOL!