Passive barriers

[azucena]

Interesting article about passive barriers...like how many more people end up participating in 401ks that are opt out instead of opt in.  Curious what people here identify as passive barriers in their own lives.


www.getrichslowly.org/passive-barriers/#more-3062

[resolution]

Does it count if I have a passive barrier to the self reflection needed to identify all of my barriers?

[resolution]

On a more serious note, I keep finding reasons to not diet and exercise, even though there is a free weight loss program that is sponsored by my employer. 

Also, in the time that I have held VTSAX in my brokerage account, Vanguard has lowered their prices for the corresponding ETF, and Fidelity has started offering fee free mutual funds. So I would benefit from switching to either of those, or even if I just changed new contributions to one of those. But instead I just keep dumping money into VTSAX because it is already all set up and easy to do.

[thyme4change]

Oddly, growing up I felt like college was opt-out. My parents never really presented any alternatives. I was so curious when i met someone who went straight from high school to a full time job. How did they do that??? (I know - I am a douchebag) but, I'm glad that happened, because I hated school and i would be in a much, much different place if I had been given options.

[movingforward]

May 24, 2019 9:34:06 GMT -5 resolution said:

On a more serious note, I keep finding reasons to not diet and exercise, even though there is a free weight loss program that is sponsored by my employer. 

Also, in the time that I have held VTSAX in my brokerage account, Vanguard has lowered their prices for the corresponding ETF, and Fidelity has started offering fee free mutual funds. So I would benefit from switching to either of those, or even if I just changed new contributions to one of those. But instead I just keep dumping money into VTSAX because it is already all set up and easy to do.

I am doing the exact same thing...

[Tiny]

A passive barrier I struggle with would be "eating dinner in front of the TV"  which often turns into spending 3 hours infront of the TV.  And I certainly could have spent 2.5 of those hours during something more productive (like getting into bed a bit earlier).  

I have this "dream" of doing a cash out re-financing my investment property and then either buying another property for cash OR just investing the cash.  I have all the things I need to do to do this... but I just can't seem to make the phone call to the bank to get the ball rolling.   The busy work involved and or the fear of hearing "the interest rate will be astronomical because the loan is so small OR the fees involved will be astronomical because it's such a small loan) just trigger my avoidance behavior (maybe I should go eat something and watch TV, instead.)   

 

[chapeau]

I didn’t bother to call to order mulch on Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday because...I have no idea. I did manage to call today, but I could very easily have put it off for 2 or 3 more weeks.

And one of my biggest passive barriers is gravity. Possibly gravity on my couch is stronger than anywhere else on earth...

[movingforward]

I have had the same car insurance carrier for 30 years (OMG! I can't believe I am old enough to say that!). I am just too lazy to shop around. I suppose if they ever really failed me I would look elsewhere, but since I have had no issues I just continue the policy.

[Deleted]

May 24, 2019 10:22:48 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Oddly, growing up I felt like college was opt-out. My parents never really presented any alternatives. I was so curious when i met someone who went straight from high school to a full time job. How did they do that (I know - I am a douchebag) but, I'm glad that happened, because I hated school and i would be in a much, much different place if I had been given options.

LOL

That's totally why I put my kid in a private college prep school.  I wanted all his peers to be sharing the same illusion that college wasn't optional.    A lot of the kids from the public high school do not go on to college. 

eta:  As a disclaimer.  I KNOW not everyone should go to college, and I am totally cool with the trade school option or straight to work if that is a better fit, but I didn't want that decision to be made by a teenager just trying to take the path of least resistance either. 

[Deleted]

May 24, 2019 9:34:06 GMT -5 resolution said:

On a more serious note, I keep finding reasons to not diet and exercise, even though there is a free weight loss program that is sponsored by my employer. 

Also, in the time that I have held VTSAX in my brokerage account, Vanguard has lowered their prices for the corresponding ETF, and Fidelity has started offering fee free mutual funds. So I would benefit from switching to either of those, or even if I just changed new contributions to one of those. But instead I just keep dumping money into VTSAX because it is already all set up and easy to do.

I think the .04 expense ratio VTSAX is well worth the very low expense ratio to be able to convert to its corresponding VTI ETF without a taxable event occurring in a taxable account.  As I understand it Fidelity's free options are not offered at any other brokerage so you would have to sell creating a taxable event if you wanted to move.  Fidelity also could raise the expense ratio any time they wanted and again you would have to create a taxable event to move.

Don't get me wrong, the fee war started by Vanguard is awesome and I'm thrilled to see Fidelity follow suit but I still trust Vanguards at cost structure more than Fidelity's for profit motivation.  For tax advantaged accounts I don't see any drawbacks going with Fidelity's zero expense options.

I'm a customer of both.

[cktc]

I've read that organ donation has huge differences in donors where people have to opt out, not in.  

I recently curbed spending with Amazon by not updating the cc expiration date on my subscribe and save. 

One I recently identified and have asked DH to help correct is with dishes. If the dishwasher is empty, I will load it all day, if it isn't, they will pile up in the sink until after dinner. So I've tasked DH with putting dishes away every morning.

I need to figure out how to stay on top of the litter box now. I know  having it in a frequently used area helps because I'm constantly reminded to clean it, but ugh.

[resolution]

May 24, 2019 14:19:34 GMT -5 cktc said:

I need to figure out how to stay on top of the litter box now. I know  having it in a frequently used area helps because I'm constantly reminded to clean it, but ugh.

I have a morning routine, as soon as I get up I go scoop the litter box, play with the cat for 15 minutes (so he doesn't run around and then throw up after he eats), and feed him breakfast.  The cat has learned the routine, so if I try to deviate from it he follows me around reminding me that he needs attention.

[movingforward]

May 24, 2019 14:19:34 GMT -5 cktc said:

I've read that organ donation has huge differences in donors where people have to opt out, not in.  

I recently curbed spending with Amazon by not updating the cc expiration date on my subscribe and save. 

One I recently identified and have asked DH to help correct is with dishes. If the dishwasher is empty, I will load it all day, if it isn't, they will pile up in the sink until after dinner. So I've tasked DH with putting dishes away every morning.

I need to figure out how to stay on top of the litter box now. I know  having it in a frequently used area helps because I'm constantly reminded to clean it, but ugh.

I started a "routine" with the litter box several years ago and now it is almost like I am on auto pilot.

[Deleted]

My "routine" for the litter box, is to sit down on the couch in the evening with a Diet Pepsi and a bowl of popcorn and yell, "SAM!  DID YOU CLEAN THE LITTERBOX??" 

[Artemis Windsong]

I read the article to the point of automatic enrollment in employer matching 401k.

I need to let go of this.  20 y.a. I could have gotten into a 401K, matching.  I didn't understand them at the time. HR could have gone a long way in helping.

[Tiny]

May 24, 2019 14:19:34 GMT -5 cktc said:

 
I need to figure out how to stay on top of the litter box now. I know  having it in a frequently used area helps because I'm constantly reminded to clean it, but ugh. 

My boxes are alittle out of the way. And I'm a distracted kinda person. I made catbox cleaning part of my morning routine and part of my before bed routine.

Morning: stumble out of bed, bathroom, pick up water bowl from cat room, head to kitchen, start coffee, pick up/empty/clean kitchen food/water bowls, put down fresh food/water in kitchen, head back to bathroom to brush teeth (take water bowl), put down water bowl/water in cat room, clean cat boxes, take used litter to kitchen trash, wash hands, grab a cuppa joe, head to bathroom for a shower. I'm usually pretty incoherent until the grab a cuppa joe part, so this "path" works pretty well. Since I have to walk past the cat room on the "coffee/shower" part of the routine.   I do manage to "robotically" get the cats fed, watered, box cleaned without fail. The evening routine varies alittle but cleaning the cat box is usually one of the last things I do before bed. My cats are older and use the boxes more than they did when younger and I DON"T want them to be put off by a filled up cat box.

I guess my advice for getting the cat box cleaned on a regular basis - is to find a way to add it to a daily routine - put the boxes on a 'path' you follow.


FWIW:   I stopped brushing my teeth and showering on the first stop in the bathroom because I was so incoherent I was brushing the enamel off my teeth (too much pressure with the brush) and then hanging out in the shower for 30 minutes or more..   doing some robotic chores in between means I'm more awake and so brush a little more gently and take less time in the shower.  

[cktc]

May 25, 2019 9:52:12 GMT -5 Tiny said:

May 24, 2019 14:19:34 GMT -5 cktc said:

 
I need to figure out how to stay on top of the litter box now. I know  having it in a frequently used area helps because I'm constantly reminded to clean it, but ugh. 

My boxes are alittle out of the way. And I'm a distracted kinda person. I made catbox cleaning part of my morning routine and part of my before bed routine.

Morning: stumble out of bed, bathroom, pick up water bowl from cat room, head to kitchen, start coffee, pick up/empty/clean kitchen food/water bowls, put down fresh food/water in kitchen, head back to bathroom to brush teeth (take water bowl), put down water bowl/water in cat room, clean cat boxes, take used litter to kitchen trash, wash hands, grab a cuppa joe, head to bathroom for a shower. I'm usually pretty incoherent until the grab a cuppa joe part, so this "path" works pretty well. Since I have to walk past the cat room on the "coffee/shower" part of the routine.   I do manage to "robotically" get the cats fed, watered, box cleaned without fail. The evening routine varies alittle but cleaning the cat box is usually one of the last things I do before bed. My cats are older and use the boxes more than they did when younger and I DON"T want them to be put off by a filled up cat box.

I guess my advice for getting the cat box cleaned on a regular basis - is to find a way to add it to a daily routine - put the boxes on a 'path' you follow.


FWIW:   I stopped brushing my teeth and showering on the first stop in the bathroom because I was so incoherent I was brushing the enamel off my teeth (too much pressure with the brush) and then hanging out in the shower for 30 minutes or more..   doing some robotic chores in between means I'm more awake and so brush a little more gently and take less time in the shower.  

I probably use my kids as an excuse too much. On Marie Kondo a mom asks how she is supposed to clean with little kids and she tells her to clean in front of them. They need to see it. DD is just at the age where she still wants to play in the kitty litter when mommy does. DS knows better, but when he sees DD do it and I reprimand her he thinks it's funny and wants to join in the fun. I suppose if I did this daily they would both outgrow it sooner.  DD was actually pretty cute today, I was changing DS, she came over, grabbed a wipe, and started cleaning up some cat puke on the rug that DH and I had both missed. 14 months old and she actually did a better job getting it up than DH does 

[Ava]

I struggle with my car payments. My car loan is with a local credit union because they offer great rates. But they are old fashioned and it's difficult to set up online payments with them, particularly if you don't bank with them. I bank with my employer, and only have the car loan with the CU, and making transfers from another institution is a PITA. 
Every time you call the CU to fix something, or change something, the answer is that they can't do it on the phone and you need to go to a branch. Of course, they have very few branches and none of them is convenient for me. I have tried to set up transfers for the loan a couple of times and failed miserably. I have given up and send them a paper check every month. I hate sending paper checks. One of the many reasons I want the car note gone, but financially it doesn't make sense to pay it off early.

[Artemis Windsong]

From kindergarten, my parents used negative psychology on me and my two brothers.  I wasn't taught the basic rhymes and songs.  As I grew up, anything I was proud of in school was pride is a sin.  Later, when I was trying to figure out where my future was, you will not work nor go to college.  You don't need it.

Social life was very sparse.  This caused me not to have the back ground to help guide my children through the rough waters of interpersonal issues.  My brothers had a full social life.

Then we get to be adults and wonder why we were not successful.  I had to learn communications skills but I was no match in a lot of situations so I kept quiet.

As XH started getting more abusive to me and 2 children, I went to college.  He stood over me screaming as I tried to study.  I got enough education to get a decent job but I had filed for divorce before I got that job.  The good Lord was looking after me.

Then the 2nd H.  I won't go into that.  38 years. 

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

May 25, 2019 10:53:35 GMT -5 Ava said:

I struggle with my car payments. My car loan is with a local credit union because they offer great rates. But they are old fashioned and it's difficult to set up online payments with them, particularly if you don't bank with them. I bank with my employer, and only have the car loan with the CU, and making transfers from another institution is a PITA. 
Every time you call the CU to fix something, or change something, the answer is that they can't do it on the phone and you need to go to a branch. Of course, they have very few branches and none of them is convenient for me. I have tried to set up transfers for the loan a couple of times and failed miserably. I have given up and send them a paper check every month. I hate sending paper checks. One of the many reasons I want the car note gone, but financially it doesn't make sense to pay it off early.

Here’s how I solved that challenge:

DH’s employer will split a direct deposit pay check to multiple banks/CU.
So, I have part of his check go to one bank and the other part go to the CU that has our mortgage and car loans. Then, I’m able to set up automatic payments for the loans.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

May 25, 2019 11:02:42 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

From kindergarten, my parents used negative psychology on me and my two brothers.  I wasn't taught the basic rhymes and songs.  As I grew up, anything I was proud of in school was pride is a sin.  Later, when I was trying to figure out where my future was, you will not work nor go to college.  You don't need it.

Social life was very sparse.  This caused me not to have the back ground to help guide my children through the rough waters of interpersonal issues.  My brothers had a full social life.

Then we get to be adults and wonder why we were not successful.  I had to learn communications skills but I was no match in a lot of situations so I kept quiet.

As XH started getting more abusive to me and 2 children, I went to college.  He stood over me screaming as I tried to study.  I got enough education to get a decent job but I had filed for divorce before I got that job.  The good Lord was looking after me.

Then the 2nd H.  I won't go into that.  38 years. 

Hugs

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I definitely have the passive barriers to eating healthy food. I can afford to purchase fresh food. I am more than smart enough to meal plan and track calories. It’s just so much easier not to. I might try the suggestions near the end of the article regarding writing out the barriers and changing them.

[Artemis Windsong]

Thanks TWC!

Edit:  I finished reading the article.  Really good ideas to get the self going.

[TheOtherMe]

May 25, 2019 14:19:22 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

May 25, 2019 10:53:35 GMT -5 Ava said:

I struggle with my car payments. My car loan is with a local credit union because they offer great rates. But they are old fashioned and it's difficult to set up online payments with them, particularly if you don't bank with them. I bank with my employer, and only have the car loan with the CU, and making transfers from another institution is a PITA. 
Every time you call the CU to fix something, or change something, the answer is that they can't do it on the phone and you need to go to a branch. Of course, they have very few branches and none of them is convenient for me. I have tried to set up transfers for the loan a couple of times and failed miserably. I have given up and send them a paper check every month. I hate sending paper checks. One of the many reasons I want the car note gone, but financially it doesn't make sense to pay it off early.

Here’s how I solved that challenge:

DH’s employer will split a direct deposit pay check to multiple banks/CU.
So, I have part of his check go to one bank and the other part go to the CU that has our mortgage and car loans. Then, I’m able to set up automatic payments for the loans.

That is what I did when I had my car loan with a different credit union than my normal credit union.  I only sent a few more dollars a month there than the car payment.  I actually rounded up to the nearest dollar amount, for example my payment was $233.23.  I sent $235 to the credit union and had the automatic payment set up for the car loan.  

It's paid off now, but no way was I paying off a loan at 1.9% early.

[Ava]

I'm in the same boat. My loan has a higher interest rate than yours did, 3.5 percent.
Of the three remaining debts I have, it's the lowest interest one. I am not paying it off early.
I would like for the credit union to be more user friendly, though.

[oped]

Inertia. It’s an actual law of physics.

[saveinla]

May 25, 2019 10:53:35 GMT -5 Ava said:

I struggle with my car payments. My car loan is with a local credit union because they offer great rates. But they are old fashioned and it's difficult to set up online payments with them, particularly if you don't bank with them. I bank with my employer, and only have the car loan with the CU, and making transfers from another institution is a PITA. 
Every time you call the CU to fix something, or change something, the answer is that they can't do it on the phone and you need to go to a branch. Of course, they have very few branches and none of them is convenient for me. I have tried to set up transfers for the loan a couple of times and failed miserably. I have given up and send them a paper check every month. I hate sending paper checks. One of the many reasons I want the car note gone, but financially it doesn't make sense to pay it off early.

Can you not use online bill pay from you bank account  and treat the credit union loan like any other bill you have to pay?

[Ava]

May 26, 2019 10:06:12 GMT -5 saveinla said:

May 25, 2019 10:53:35 GMT -5 Ava said:

I struggle with my car payments. My car loan is with a local credit union because they offer great rates. But they are old fashioned and it's difficult to set up online payments with them, particularly if you don't bank with them. I bank with my employer, and only have the car loan with the CU, and making transfers from another institution is a PITA. 
Every time you call the CU to fix something, or change something, the answer is that they can't do it on the phone and you need to go to a branch. Of course, they have very few branches and none of them is convenient for me. I have tried to set up transfers for the loan a couple of times and failed miserably. I have given up and send them a paper check every month. I hate sending paper checks. One of the many reasons I want the car note gone, but financially it doesn't make sense to pay it off early.

Can you not use online bill pay from you bank account  and treat the credit union loan like any other bill you have to pay?

If I understood correctly last time I tried to set it up, I can either transfer money from a checking account with them, which I don't have, or have the bank make a transfer to them. All my other utilities and online payments I just give them the routing number etc. and they withdraw the money.

Anyway, I've given up after several phone calls and a couple of visits. I know I could really do this if I put my mind to it. But I let it ride. That's why I'm posting it here. Passive barriers.

[TheOtherMe]

May 26, 2019 10:57:05 GMT -5 Ava said:

May 26, 2019 10:06:12 GMT -5 saveinla said:

Can you not use online bill pay from you bank account  and treat the credit union loan like any other bill you have to pay?

If I understood correctly last time I tried to set it up, I can either transfer money from a checking account with them, which I don't have, or have the bank make a transfer to them. All my other utilities and online payments I just give them the routing number etc. and they withdraw the money.

Anyway, I've given up after several phone calls and a couple of visits. I know I could really do this if I put my mind to it. But I let it ride. That's why I'm posting it here. Passive barriers.

As Chloe and I both explained, open an account there and have the amount of the car payment deposited in to the account and have the payment made automatically.

It's quite easy to do.

[Tiny]

May 26, 2019 11:00:18 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

May 26, 2019 10:57:05 GMT -5 Ava said:

If I understood correctly last time I tried to set it up, I can either transfer money from a checking account with them, which I don't have, or have the bank make a transfer to them. All my other utilities and online payments I just give them the routing number etc. and they withdraw the money.

Anyway, I've given up after several phone calls and a couple of visits. I know I could really do this if I put my mind to it. But I let it ride. That's why I'm posting it here. Passive barriers.

As Chloe and I both explained, open an account there and have the amount of the car payment deposited in to the account and have the payment made automatically.

It's quite easy to do.

  BUT, there may be a minimum amount needed (as well as having a direct deposit and maybe a number of other transactions) to keep the account free.   I suspect they will not allow a transfer from a savings account -- which could also have a minimum amount to keep it free too.     Not everyone has alot of cash lying around or cash that they can tie up for years (with no return). 

There may also be some limit how many accounts/transfers Ava's payroll department allows.  (I've heard of only having two - so the deposit to your checking account and one other one  and up to 10 (my employer's payroll service). 

I have had similar problems as AVA - and I just sucked it up, opened a checking account with the bank that held the loan --  which had a minimum balance requirement ($1750) and a direct deposit requirement to keep it "free".    I have 2K sitting in the checking account (not earning interest) and then set up a direct deposit from my paycheck to the account.   Then it was just a matter of setting up the payment from the checking account to the loan.   It was a lot of busy work to get it all set up, and then 2 months of babysitting it to make sure all the moving parts worked AND the 2K not doing much of anything...   But it was worth it for the convenience from the long term view (4 plus years of "not having to think about it")   


I'm kind of surprise AVA's credit union won't do an automated "pull" or draw.   
Basically, having the Credit Union do an automated "draw" from her checking account at another bank.