Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 11:51:25 GMT -5
And if there is nothing wrong with the baby? Good luck finding a doctor who will do it. It's hard enough to find one to do a late term abortion when it's medically warranted. They have to take an oath to do no harm. They shouldn’t be willing to abort a child that could live on its own |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 20, 2019 11:52:58 GMT -5
If I was raped by the father, IDGAF what he has to say. And if you weren’t raped by the father? depends on the circumstances of the relationship. I'd consult him, but I would understand why someone wouldn't. Just because he stuck his dick in my does not give him the right to make me his incubator. |
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Post by swamp on May 20, 2019 11:55:23 GMT -5
Good luck finding a doctor who will do it. It's hard enough to find one to do a late term abortion when it's medically warranted. They have to take an oath to do no harm. They shouldn’t be willing to abort a child that could live on its own which is why they don't. Did you ever read Sam/Lost to water's post on FB about her "late term abortion?" She was required to carry a baby that was dying, and by the time she was delivered, the baby was dead and "not pleasant." (I will spare the details and PM you as to not upset Sam or other posters.) She didn't get a chance to hold her child while she was alive. That is why we need late term abortion. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 12:40:55 GMT -5
And if you weren’t raped by the father? depends on the circumstances of the relationship. I'd consult him, but I would understand why someone wouldn't. Just because he stuck his dick in my does not give him the right to make me his incubator. But a full term baby means you were already his incubator. Shouldn’t both parents have a say in whether a full term baby lives? I’m not talking about early abortion. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 12:43:28 GMT -5
They have to take an oath to do no harm. They shouldn’t be willing to abort a child that could live on its own which is why they don't. Did you ever read Sam/Lost to water's post on FB about her "late term abortion?" She was required to carry a baby that was dying, and by the time she was delivered, the baby was dead and "not pleasant." (I will spare the details and PM you as to not upset Sam or other posters.) She didn't get a chance to hold her child while she was alive. That is why we need late term abortion. I didn’t so thank you for sending me the story And no, I do not agree with not letting her give birth. That isn’t at all what I’m objecting to. I’m objecting to allowing anyone to decide to kill a full term baby because it isn’t wanted. If a baby can live outside the womb, women can no longer hang their hat on “my body, my choice”. |
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Post by swamp on May 20, 2019 12:44:36 GMT -5
depends on the circumstances of the relationship. I'd consult him, but I would understand why someone wouldn't. Just because he stuck his dick in my does not give him the right to make me his incubator. But a full term baby means you were already his incubator. Shouldn’t both parents have a say in whether a full term baby lives? I’m not talking about early abortion. I wouldn't abort a full term baby. But yes, after viablity, he should be consulted. If mom's health is in danger, his vote doesn't count. |
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Post by swamp on May 20, 2019 12:47:13 GMT -5
which is why they don't. Did you ever read Sam/Lost to water's post on FB about her "late term abortion?" She was required to carry a baby that was dying, and by the time she was delivered, the baby was dead and "not pleasant." (I will spare the details and PM you as to not upset Sam or other posters.) She didn't get a chance to hold her child while she was alive. That is why we need late term abortion. I didn’t so thank you for sending me the story And no, I do not agree with not letting her give birth. That isn’t at all what I’m objecting to. I’m objecting to allowing anyone to decide to kill a full term baby because it isn’t wanted. If a baby can live outside the womb, women can no longer hang their hat on “my body, my choice”. again, late term abortions are 1.2% of abortions. I have not heard of one single story about a full term, viable fetus being aborted. Even if it were legal, I don't think you could find a doctor to do it. Docs are human too, they aren't going to kill a healthy baby. If a late term abortion is necessary, it's painful enough for most women, requirng them to justify themselves to some kind of tribunal is horrible. Let her make that decision with her doctor and the father of the child, if he's present. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 12:49:21 GMT -5
But a full term baby means you were already his incubator. Shouldn’t both parents have a say in whether a full term baby lives? I’m not talking about early abortion. I wouldn't abort a full term baby. But yes, after viablity, he should be consulted. If mom's health is in danger, his vote doesn't count. Then we are pretty much in agreement. |
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Post by weltschmerz on May 20, 2019 12:51:02 GMT -5
I didn’t so thank you for sending me the story And no, I do not agree with not letting her give birth. That isn’t at all what I’m objecting to. I’m objecting to allowing anyone to decide to kill a full term baby because it isn’t wanted. If a baby can live outside the womb, women can no longer hang their hat on “my body, my choice”. again, late term abortions are 1.2% of abortions. I have not heard of one single story about a full term, viable fetus being aborted. Even if it were legal, I don't think you could find a doctor to do it. Docs are human too, they aren't going to kill a healthy baby. If a late term abortion is necessary, it's painful enough for most women, requiring them to justify themselves to some kind of tribunal is horrible. Let her make that decision with her doctor and the father of the child, if he's present. It's legal here, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a doctor who will do it. It has to be life-threatening to the mother, or if it will suffer to its last breath. Women don't "just change their minds" after 7 or 8 months. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 12:51:08 GMT -5
I didn’t so thank you for sending me the story And no, I do not agree with not letting her give birth. That isn’t at all what I’m objecting to. I’m objecting to allowing anyone to decide to kill a full term baby because it isn’t wanted. If a baby can live outside the womb, women can no longer hang their hat on “my body, my choice”. again, late term abortions are 1.2% of abortions. I have not heard of one single story about a full term, viable fetus being aborted. Even if it were legal, I don't think you could find a doctor to do it. Docs are human too, they aren't going to kill a healthy baby. If a late term abortion is necessary, it's painful enough for most women, requirng them to justify themselves to some kind of tribunal is horrible. Let her make that decision with her doctor and the father of the child, if he's present. The OP was about the inability to abort an 8 month old baby therefore forcing her to carry her rapists baby. So yes, I do believe people would abort a very viable baby. |
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Post by oped on May 20, 2019 12:55:05 GMT -5
Abortion past 20 weeks is 1.2% of all abortion. These are all about maternal health and fetus viability. Even in a world where we reduced abortion through education, health care and social services, late term abortion could and should not be stopped. And if there is nothing wrong with the baby? This doesn’t happen. Sorry it just doesn’t. If you find a case it would be so anomalous as to make anyone question the legitimacy of claimed details. What does happen is that in states with late term banns parents who are already in devastating circumstances are placed under greater harm. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 12:57:12 GMT -5
And if there is nothing wrong with the baby? This doesn’t happen. Sorry it just doesn’t. If you find a case it would be so anomalous as to make anyone question the legitimacy of claimed details. What does happen is that in states with late term banns parents who are already in devastating circumstances are placed under greater harm. The OP was a woman complaining that when she found out she was pregnant at 8 months she couldn’t get an abortion and was forced to carry her rapists baby. So I disagree that it wouldn’t happen. There need to be laws in place to prevent the murder of a viable baby that is just not wanted. |
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oped
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Post by oped on May 20, 2019 12:59:45 GMT -5
which is why they don't. Did you ever read Sam/Lost to water's post on FB about her "late term abortion?" She was required to carry a baby that was dying, and by the time she was delivered, the baby was dead and "not pleasant." (I will spare the details and PM you as to not upset Sam or other posters.) She didn't get a chance to hold her child while she was alive. That is why we need late term abortion. I didn’t so thank you for sending me the story And no, I do not agree with not letting her give birth. That isn’t at all what I’m objecting to. I’m objecting to allowing anyone to decide to kill a full term baby because it isn’t wanted. If a baby can live outside the womb, women can no longer hang their hat on “my body, my choice”. But this IS the face of late-term abortion. This and a girl I went to high school with who got a blood disorder in her 6th month and wasn’t even conscious when her husband and parents had to make the decision... they were all so devastated that the marriage didn’t last and she was crippled by depression... even though she knew she would have died otherwise. These are late term abortion. It’s why it is so rare. 1.2% And why no one has a right to interject themselves into the already heartbreaking decisions of the parents and doctors involved. |
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Post by justme on May 20, 2019 13:03:41 GMT -5
This doesn’t happen. Sorry it just doesn’t. If you find a case it would be so anomalous as to make anyone question the legitimacy of claimed details. What does happen is that in states with late term banns parents who are already in devastating circumstances are placed under greater harm. The OP was a woman complaining that when she found out she was pregnant at 8 months she couldn’t get an abortion and was forced to carry her rapists baby. So I disagree that it wouldn’t happen. There need to be laws in place to prevent the murder of a viable baby that is just not wanted. No, we don't need laws in place. As stated doctors aren't just going to willy-nilly perform late term abortions on a healthy fetus when the mom is 100% healthy. It's just not going to happen - it goes against medical standards. Which is the policy in Canada and shocker!! (actually not really a shocker) abortion rates in Canada are significantly lower than in the US. Seriously, if only people would look at the numbers and facts than made up hypothetical situations. www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/08/29/how-canadian-abortion-policy-actually-works_a_23510526/ |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 13:08:10 GMT -5
I didn’t so thank you for sending me the story And no, I do not agree with not letting her give birth. That isn’t at all what I’m objecting to. I’m objecting to allowing anyone to decide to kill a full term baby because it isn’t wanted. If a baby can live outside the womb, women can no longer hang their hat on “my body, my choice”. But this IS the face of late-term abortion. This and a girl I went to high school with who got a blood disorder in her 6th month and wasn’t even conscious when her husband and parents had to make the decision... they were all so devastated that the marriage didn’t last and she was crippled by depression... even though she knew she would have died otherwise. These are late term abortion. It’s why it is so rare. 1.2% And why no one has a right to interject themselves into the already heartbreaking decisions of the parents and doctors involved. It isn’t a heart breaking decision to abort a baby at 8 months because you just found out. That is murder. If she went into labor and gave birth she couldn’t kill the baby or it would be murder. That doesn’t change because the baby was the same age but didn’t take its first breath yet The other one is very difficult. My ex would have chosen to save me (we had that discussion) and I would have divorced him for it. My childs life will always come before mine. If there is a fire, save my child before you worry about me. But at least in that case there is a valid reason. The mother will die. Completely different than just not wanting the baby |
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oped
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Post by oped on May 20, 2019 13:08:24 GMT -5
In my understanding the OP was worried less about being a rapists baby than about the quality of life of the infant. It isn’t a well written account, I’ll give you that.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 13:09:36 GMT -5
The OP was a woman complaining that when she found out she was pregnant at 8 months she couldn’t get an abortion and was forced to carry her rapists baby. So I disagree that it wouldn’t happen. There need to be laws in place to prevent the murder of a viable baby that is just not wanted. No, we don't need laws in place. As stated doctors aren't just going to willy-nilly perform late term abortions on a healthy fetus when the mom is 100% healthy. It's just not going to happen - it goes against medical standards. Which is the policy in Canada and shocker!! (actually not really a shocker) abortion rates in Canada are significantly lower than in the US. Seriously, if only people would look at the numbers and facts than made up hypothetical situations. www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/08/29/how-canadian-abortion-policy-actually-works_a_23510526/Why have any laws then? It is illegal to murder your two day old baby. Most people aren’t going to kill their child but there are still laws in the books to prevent it. Most people aren’t going to go on a shooting spree but there are still laws against it |
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Post by justme on May 20, 2019 13:18:38 GMT -5
No, we don't need laws in place. As stated doctors aren't just going to willy-nilly perform late term abortions on a healthy fetus when the mom is 100% healthy. It's just not going to happen - it goes against medical standards. Which is the policy in Canada and shocker!! (actually not really a shocker) abortion rates in Canada are significantly lower than in the US. Seriously, if only people would look at the numbers and facts than made up hypothetical situations. www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/08/29/how-canadian-abortion-policy-actually-works_a_23510526/Why have any laws then? It is illegal to murder your two day old baby. Most people aren’t going to kill their child but there are still laws in the books to prevent it. Most people aren’t going to go on a shooting spree but there are still laws against it Because everything else you've referred to is not a medical procedure and therefore does not have a medical governing board determining appropriate standards. Those instances don't require the presence of someone whose job and license hinges on doing no harm and correctly following medical standards. A doctor isn't out there doing whatever they damn well please whenever they want. Stop trying to equate hypotheticals that in no world actually equate other than based solely upon your beliefs. Again, look at the science and facts of practice in other countries. You a free to practice your beliefs, but you're not free to impose them on others. |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 20, 2019 13:19:34 GMT -5
In my understanding the OP was worried less about being a rapists baby than about the quality of life of the infant. It isn’t a well written account, I’ll give you that. I was wondering why it was titled the way it was. There was no mention of her resenting the baby, or not taking care of her. In fact, she seemed to be doing her best to take care of a severely disabled child as a child herself. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 13:28:02 GMT -5
Why have any laws then? It is illegal to murder your two day old baby. Most people aren’t going to kill their child but there are still laws in the books to prevent it. Most people aren’t going to go on a shooting spree but there are still laws against it Because everything else you've referred to is not a medical procedure and therefore does not have a medical governing board determining appropriate standards. Those instances don't require the presence of someone whose job and license hinges on doing no harm and correctly following medical standards. A doctor isn't out there doing whatever they damn well please whenever they want. Stop trying to equate hypotheticals that in no world actually equate other than based solely upon your beliefs. Again, look at the science and facts of practice in other countries. You a free to practice your beliefs, but you're not free to impose them on others. Aborting an 8 month old “fetus” because you just found out you were pregnant is not a medical procedure. I’m not talking about a baby who will die. I’m talking about a very viable baby that isn’t wanted. Yes, that should be illegal. |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 20, 2019 13:33:22 GMT -5
Because everything else you've referred to is not a medical procedure and therefore does not have a medical governing board determining appropriate standards. Those instances don't require the presence of someone whose job and license hinges on doing no harm and correctly following medical standards. A doctor isn't out there doing whatever they damn well please whenever they want. Stop trying to equate hypotheticals that in no world actually equate other than based solely upon your beliefs. Again, look at the science and facts of practice in other countries. You a free to practice your beliefs, but you're not free to impose them on others. Aborting an 8 month old “fetus” because you just found out you were pregnant is not a medical procedure. I’m not talking about a baby who will die. I’m talking about a very viable baby that isn’t wanted. Yes, that should be illegal. I don't think anyone here disagrees with you. I did some googling. I did find a doc who would do late term abortions on healthy babies. He's now in prison where he belongs. I won't link the Wiki article because it is super disturbing. He was more like a serial killer than a doctor. His name is Kermit Gosnell. |
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Post by justme on May 20, 2019 13:39:45 GMT -5
Because everything else you've referred to is not a medical procedure and therefore does not have a medical governing board determining appropriate standards. Those instances don't require the presence of someone whose job and license hinges on doing no harm and correctly following medical standards. A doctor isn't out there doing whatever they damn well please whenever they want. Stop trying to equate hypotheticals that in no world actually equate other than based solely upon your beliefs. Again, look at the science and facts of practice in other countries. You a free to practice your beliefs, but you're not free to impose them on others. Aborting an 8 month old “fetus” because you just found out you were pregnant is not a medical procedure. I’m not talking about a baby who will die. I’m talking about a very viable baby that isn’t wanted. Yes, that should be illegal. Just because someone wants something done does not mean the medical community will agree to it!!! Again, there's not millions of perfectly healthy full term babies being aborted in Canada AND THERE ARE NO LAWS REGARDING ABORTION THERE. The doctors just don't do that -- it's against medical standards and practices. There are plenty of instances of doctors telling patients no and they're really easy to find if you look in cosmetic surgery. There's an entire TV show, Botched, where a good chunk of the cases on them are the doctors telling them they're an idiot and they can't help them with procedures because it's a bad idea on multiple levels (including being to young, the surgery won't do what the patient is expecting, the patient has a mental illness that needs to be dealt with). You're just being blinded by your beliefs instead of again (is this the third or fourth time now?) looking at the science and evidence of what happens in other countries. |
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 20, 2019 13:43:16 GMT -5
Aborting an 8 month old “fetus” because you just found out you were pregnant is not a medical procedure. I’m not talking about a baby who will die. I’m talking about a very viable baby that isn’t wanted. Yes, that should be illegal. Just because someone wants something done does not mean the medical community will agree to it!!! Again, there's not millions of perfectly healthy full term babies being aborted in Canada AND THERE ARE NO LAWS REGARDING ABORTION THERE. The doctors just don't do that -- it's against medical standards and practices. There are plenty of instances of doctors telling patients no and they're really easy to find if you look in cosmetic surgery. There's an entire TV show, Botched, where a good chunk of the cases on them are the doctors telling them they're an idiot and they can't help them with procedures because it's a bad idea on multiple levels (including being to young, the surgery won't do what the patient is expecting, the patient has a mental illness that needs to be dealt with). You're just being blinded by your beliefs instead of again (is this the third or fourth time now?) looking at the science and evidence of what happens in other countries. Now that Miss T is here, this thread will go to the thread graveyard, aka Virgil's Inferno. |
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oped
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Post by oped on May 20, 2019 13:43:54 GMT -5
Actually we’ve been having a very decent conversation for awhile now.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 20, 2019 15:18:25 GMT -5
Because everything else you've referred to is not a medical procedure and therefore does not have a medical governing board determining appropriate standards. Those instances don't require the presence of someone whose job and license hinges on doing no harm and correctly following medical standards. A doctor isn't out there doing whatever they damn well please whenever they want. Stop trying to equate hypotheticals that in no world actually equate other than based solely upon your beliefs. Again, look at the science and facts of practice in other countries. You a free to practice your beliefs, but you're not free to impose them on others. Aborting an 8 month old “fetus” because you just found out you were pregnant is not a medical procedure. I’m not talking about a baby who will die. I’m talking about a very viable baby that isn’t wanted. Yes, that should be illegal. I'm not sure who you're arguing with. Most Americans (70%) think abortion should be illegal after the second trimester. I suspect the remaining 30% out there who don't agree are not people eager to kill late term fetuses, but rather people who hate having anyone tell anyone else what they are allowed to do (kind of like the gun rights people). Total freedom all the time people. Most of us think there should be limits to personal freedom, though.
In practical terms, where would you even find a doctor willing to do that, unless the mother was dying? Despite the macabre tales of organ harvesting, or wrapping up babies nicely before killing them, as someone else pointed out, late term abortions are only 1.2% of all abortions. Women don't want them, doctors don't want to do them.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 20, 2019 15:24:33 GMT -5
I want them to be legal. Those who need them need to be able to get them. That is who that 1.2% is... those who need them.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 16:20:30 GMT -5
Aborting an 8 month old “fetus” because you just found out you were pregnant is not a medical procedure. I’m not talking about a baby who will die. I’m talking about a very viable baby that isn’t wanted. Yes, that should be illegal. I'm not sure who you're arguing with. Most Americans (70%) think abortion should be illegal after the second trimester. I suspect the remaining 30% out there who don't agree are not people eager to kill late term fetuses, but rather people who hate having anyone tell anyone else what they are allowed to do (kind of like the gun rights people). Total freedom all the time people. Most of us think there should be limits to personal freedom, though.
In practical terms, where would you even find a doctor willing to do that, unless the mother was dying? Despite the macabre tales of organ harvesting, or wrapping up babies nicely before killing them, as someone else pointed out, late term abortions are only 1.2% of all abortions. Women don't want them, doctors don't want to do them.
Actually I was quoting posts of people who do not want any laws put around late term abortions. So those are the people I’m discussing this with. I get that the majority of people are not ok with aborting a very viable 8 month old baby unless mother or baby’s life was at risk, but obviously not everyone does or they wouldn’t be debating that it should be legal. |
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Post by bean29 on May 20, 2019 16:32:30 GMT -5
I read a more in depth article about her once, I don't know if even she would have chosen abortion then, but after knowing what her daughter's life was like, she believes abortion should be legal, and a decision between the Mother and her Dr. I think her DH must be a very amazing guy.
One thing is for sure, these politicians are insensitive to rape. They still want to insist that Rape is consensual.  Apparently if you breathe and are in the presence of a Male, you wanted it, and that is = to consent.
In the case of a full term baby that hasn’t taken its first breath yet, do you think the father has any say in the matter? Or do you believe that only the mother has a say in whether their child gets to live? I think that is a slippery slope, but perhaps the fact that it is undefined is part of the problem. In one of the articles I read last week, it was indicated that Men in some states can choose to force a woman to carry to term, and not actually have the means, ability, and or intent to support the child. I think that in order to force someone to carry to term, you should meet that hurdle. One man had numerous children already that he was not supporting, and he forced someone to carry a baby to term, he was in prison, and had no conceivable means to support the baby, and the mother could not place the baby for adoption without his consent.
In a situation of a rape, the man should have no say.
In my mind, people who really don't want to have children are probably using birth control. So you are in the 1% range already - then of those, many of the women who face that situation will choose to carry to term and keep the baby, or carry to term, and put it up for adoption. Op-Ed said Late Term Abortions are only something like 1.2% of all abortions, and that seems reasonable to me. I would guess that nearly all of those, the baby has health issues that are incompatible with life, or delivering the baby at full term, would place the Mother's life at risk.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 20, 2019 16:35:37 GMT -5
In the case of a full term baby that hasn’t taken its first breath yet, do you think the father has any say in the matter? Or do you believe that only the mother has a say in whether their child gets to live? I think that is a slippery slope, but perhaps the fact that it is undefined is part of the problem. In one of the articles I read last week, it was indicated that Men in some states can choose to force a woman to carry to term, and not actually have the means, ability, and or intent to support the child. I think that in order to force someone to carry to term, you should meet that hurdle. One man had numerous children already that he was not supporting, and he forced someone to carry a baby to term, he was in prison, and had no conceivable means to support the baby, and the mother could not place the baby for adoption without his consent.
In a situation of a rape, the man should have no say.
In my mind, people who really don't want to have children are probably using birth control. So you are in the 1% range already - then of those, many of the women who face that situation will choose to carry to term and keep the baby, or carry to term, and put it up for adoption. Op-Ed said Late Term Abortions are only something like 1.2% of all abortions, and that seems reasonable to me. I would guess that nearly all of those, the baby has health issues that are incompatible with life, or delivering the baby at full term, would place the Mother's life at risk.
I want more than a guess that all late term abortions have medical reasons. There is zero acceptable reasons to abort an 8 month old baby without medical necessity. And there should be laws in place to prevent it. Just like we have laws on the books for everything else that is considered a crime. |
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on May 20, 2019 16:43:19 GMT -5
again, late term abortions are 1.2% of abortions. I have not heard of one single story about a full term, viable fetus being aborted. Even if it were legal, I don't think you could find a doctor to do it. Docs are human too, they aren't going to kill a healthy baby. If a late term abortion is necessary, it's painful enough for most women, requirng them to justify themselves to some kind of tribunal is horrible. Let her make that decision with her doctor and the father of the child, if he's present. The OP was about the inability to abort an 8 month old baby therefore forcing her to carry her rapists baby. So yes, I do believe people would abort a very viable baby. Sorry. Killing an 8 month old baby is infantcide. It's illegal. |
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