ednkris
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Post by ednkris on May 8, 2019 9:35:29 GMT -5
This month I have been shredding boxes of old bills, paperwork & check stubs. I can tell you exactly how much my husband's wages have increased since 1998. In that time period, I can also tell you which position he was working as he worked his way up in the company to management. I also shredded 18 years of tax returns, so I saw exactly how much his base pay & take home pay changed.
from 1998-2004 he moved up from working on the line (production factory) to supervisor and his pay went up an average of about $250 a week over that time.
2004-2008 he starts working up the supervisor ladder. The pay doesn't drastically change, but he does become salaried, so the checks no longer fluctuate. Average pay increase in that time is $150 a week. His bonus percentage goes from 1% to 3% (of 25% of his yearly pay~weird system that I'm still figuring out all these years later)
2008-2016 (the last year of physical pay check stubs) his pay went up a total $200 a week over EIGHT years. This included moving up from shift supervisor to floor supervisor to floor superintendent. He's 2nd in line in the production dept food chain, but there has never been a drastic pay increase.
2016-now pay has been completely stagnant.
The one very large benefit that moving up the food chain was his company paying for him to go to school. It's was promised in 2010. He finally went this year, he's there now. NINE years & it took him looking into tranfering to a different plant to get them to guarantee he would be sent this year. We are hopeful that this will be what finally gets him the large bump in pay, but we've learned not to hold our breath. No it's not a 4 year school, it's 4 months of intensive classes & a certificate in his industry. The school is the top school in the world for his industry. He's been gone since January & will be home end of this month.
so in 20 years, his pay has increased $600 a week. And he's done it the old fashioned, work for the same company, work your way up the ladder, "real American" way and the pay doesn't really reflect that.
So in 20 years your H pay rose 30k year not bad considering there were a few promotions with bonus availability. Do you think its bad? I personally like it when people stick it out with their employer as long as the employer is good to them and in his case it appears they have. in my personal work i am approx 50k higher in 20 years but that is a promotion after the 1st year. I don't like switching employers to me its a hassle, but have have met alot of people who do it to increase their income in shorter amount of time frame
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on May 8, 2019 9:56:14 GMT -5
Happyhoix,, This is the Country of opportunity,,
If you want rich,, it is there!! You have to work for it! The rich are not keeping you down,, If you can't get up it is your fault.. There is opportunity every where you look. Why are you bothered by what some one else does?? what some one else has?? Who cares what Trump has, who care how much money he lost , who care if he takes advantage of the tax laws,,
You could do the same thing! There are several hundred million people around the World that wish they had the opportunity that you have.. Instead of worrying about all that Trump does or doesn't do,, if you are unhappy with your situation,,, fix it!! But,, that is up to you I am not going to give you a bunch of free stuff.
exactly i get a lot of grief for saying there is a 168 hrs in a week it wont kill you to work 100 for a while. I'm not saying just to live but if you have to you have to but rather than take the extra and build something. I also agree the US have gotten very spoiled with their mcmansions that they cant afford 45-50 k cars they cant afford 10k vacations they cant afford. i also get amused when everyone bitches about the rich, big business etc who the hell is supporting them tho. How many complain about the Waltons but shop at walmart and sams? Can my wife and i but more stuff sure but that don't make you happy it makes you broke a concept too many dont get. Too many people think extras are necessities.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 8, 2019 10:30:59 GMT -5
Nope.
After adjusting for inflation, however, today’s average hourly wage has just about the same purchasing power it did in 1978, following a long slide in the 1980s and early 1990s and bumpy, inconsistent growth since then. In fact, in real terms average hourly earnings peaked more than 45 years ago: The $4.03-an-hour rate recorded in January 1973 had the same purchasing power that $23.68 would today.
www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/
It isn't that we live a more extravagant lifestyle now. Middle class wages (and purchasing power) has remained stagnant.
Of course, if you're wealthy, you're riding high on the hog. We've got the biggest wealth gap since the Roaring 20's. The richest 400 Americans have tripled their wealth since the early 1980's, and now own more than the bottom 60% of Americans, who have seen their share of the pie shrink to 2.1% in the same time period.
Yes - 400 families own more than 60% of the country does.
www.axios.com/wealth-gap-richest-americans-roaring-twenties-938b8a27-bf7b-4392-b4ae-41b84bef2002.html
Now, who do you think Trump's big tax break for the wealthy mostly benefited? Here's a hint - not his blue collar trumpettes.
I don't think that level of disparity is something to celebrate, do you?
Why do you worry about what some one else has??
because we don't want to live in a feudal society?
jesus, man.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 8, 2019 11:58:03 GMT -5
Yeah, some study of history might be good... tell the poor peasants to work harder and they too can be a billionaire and until then, look at this shiny bauble... only works if the gaps are not too great, there are legitimate pathways forward, and, I don't know, your kids aren't being killed in school and your meds aren't bankrupting you... etc...
Reality is coming... and Game of Thrones, Star Wars and Avengers all end this year...
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 8, 2019 12:10:19 GMT -5
Unlike DJ,, I am in the top 99% I have no problem with making enough money? As many names as I have been called here,, referring to my intelligence or the lack of,,,,
If I have no problem making money,,, all of you should be Zillionaires!!
I am in the top 99%, but than again so is, I am reasonably certain, is every single one of the posters on this board. There may be one exception that I know of, but even with that poster's extremely low income I am not certain since the homeless population (counted and uncounted) may be larger than that.
"If I have no problem making money,,, all of you should be Zillionaires" And that makes no sense at all since you could be making minimum wage for all we know so...
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 8, 2019 12:14:18 GMT -5
Unlike DJ,, I am in the top 99% I have no problem with making enough money? As many names as I have been called here,, referring to my intelligence or the lack of,,,,
If I have no problem making money,,, all of you should be Zillionaires!!
Just about everyone in the USA is in the "top 99%". Math isn't your strong suit, is it?
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oped
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Post by oped on May 8, 2019 12:19:59 GMT -5
Snicker. Snort.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 8, 2019 14:11:12 GMT -5
Happyhoix,, This is the Country of opportunity,,
If you want rich,, it is there!! You have to work for it! The rich are not keeping you down,, If you can't get up it is your fault.. There is opportunity every where you look. Why are you bothered by what some one else does?? what some one else has?? Who cares what Trump has, who care how much money he lost , who care if he takes advantage of the tax laws,,
You could do the same thing! There are several hundred million people around the World that wish they had the opportunity that you have.. Instead of worrying about all that Trump does or doesn't do,, if you are unhappy with your situation,,, fix it!! But,, that is up to you I am not going to give you a bunch of free stuff.
I'm unhappy that the majority of poor, working poor, lower income, and middle income people now have the very real chance of being less well of than their parents were before them. Unlike in your unicorn view of the US, it's the death of the American Dream.
You seem to believe that because you've done well, everyone else can too, and it's all great. I invite you to look a little further than the end of your nose and see how many of your fellow citizens have two working adults, or a single adult working two or three jobs, to earn the kind of lifestyle one person could have generated a couple generations ago, and tell me you don't see a problem with that.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 8, 2019 14:12:56 GMT -5
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on May 8, 2019 14:46:25 GMT -5
Happyhoix,, This is the Country of opportunity,,
If you want rich,, it is there!! You have to work for it! The rich are not keeping you down,, If you can't get up it is your fault.. There is opportunity every where you look. Why are you bothered by what some one else does?? what some one else has?? Who cares what Trump has, who care how much money he lost , who care if he takes advantage of the tax laws,,
You could do the same thing! There are several hundred million people around the World that wish they had the opportunity that you have.. Instead of worrying about all that Trump does or doesn't do,, if you are unhappy with your situation,,, fix it!! But,, that is up to you I am not going to give you a bunch of free stuff.
exactly i get a lot of grief for saying there is a 168 hrs in a week it wont kill you to work 100 for a while. I'm not saying just to live but if you have to you have to but rather than take the extra and build something. I also agree the US have gotten very spoiled with their mcmansions that they cant afford 45-50 k cars they cant afford 10k vacations they cant afford. i also get amused when everyone bitches about the rich, big business etc who the hell is supporting them tho. How many complain about the Waltons but shop at walmart and sams? Can my wife and i but more stuff sure but that don't make you happy it makes you broke a concept too many dont get. Too many people think extras are necessities. FFS not everyone can build something, invent something, invest in something to make them rich! That doesn't mean they deserve to be living like peasants, while the rich live like kings. When there is no more money to be spent from the middle and lower class, who is going to buy all that shit the rich are making/selling/etc?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 14:53:52 GMT -5
exactly i get a lot of grief for saying there is a 168 hrs in a week it wont kill you to work 100 for a while. I'm not saying just to live but if you have to you have to but rather than take the extra and build something. I also agree the US have gotten very spoiled with their mcmansions that they cant afford 45-50 k cars they cant afford 10k vacations they cant afford. i also get amused when everyone bitches about the rich, big business etc who the hell is supporting them tho. How many complain about the Waltons but shop at walmart and sams? Can my wife and i but more stuff sure but that don't make you happy it makes you broke a concept too many dont get. Too many people think extras are necessities. FFS not everyone can build something, invent something, invest in something to make them rich! That doesn't mean they deserve to be living like peasants, while the rich live like kings. When there is no more money to be spent from the middle and lower class, who is going to buy all that shit the rich are making/selling/etc? They always seem to find a way to buy things. Personally, I found it better selling things to the federal government. If you insist on selling to the general population, make large amounts of cheap items. The take is good through volume. Think oped's shiny baubles.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 8, 2019 18:01:00 GMT -5
and.......once again......the SO-SHEL-IZT countries come out ahead.
there is a very good reason why. I don't know if it is explored in the article (I didn't read it).
but anyone care to guess?
it seems obvious once you know.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 8, 2019 18:46:57 GMT -5
and.......once again......the SO-SHEL-IZT countries come out ahead.
there is a very good reason why. I don't know if it is explored in the article (I didn't read it).
but anyone care to guess?
it seems obvious once you know.
Mais oui! "Socialist" Canada is more upwardly mobile . Why The American Dream Is More Attainable In Canada Than The U.S. A poor Canadian seeking to better their lot or their child's lot in life is twice as likely to succeed as their American counterpart. www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-martin/social-mobility-study-canada_a_23601542/
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 8, 2019 19:23:33 GMT -5
FFS not everyone can build something, invent something, invest in something to make them rich! That doesn't mean they deserve to be living like peasants, while the rich live like kings. When there is no more money to be spent from the middle and lower class, who is going to buy all that shit the rich are making/selling/etc? They always seem to find a way to buy things.
Personally, I found it better selling things to the federal government. If you insist on selling to the general population, make large amounts of cheap items. The take is good through volume. Think oped's shiny baubles. They always seem to find a way to buy things.
Ever notice every one that stand on the corner with a sign,, Will work For_________________!
Always has money for cigarettes and a BIG drink,, assuming that it is Pepsi or Coke in the giant supersized drink!!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 8, 2019 19:28:28 GMT -5
Those of you that whine about the poor people they can't get ahead,,,
Maybe you need to go take lessons from the Koreans that come to this Country!!!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 8, 2019 19:35:01 GMT -5
The poor, the poor the poor,, give me a break! In this Country if you are truly poor,
The is housing,
there is food,
there is some of the best medical care you can get!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 8, 2019 19:36:49 GMT -5
Of all the posters here,, who could not come up with $400? There maybe a couple ,, but not many could not come up with it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 8, 2019 19:58:23 GMT -5
and.......once again......the SO-SHEL-IZT countries come out ahead.
there is a very good reason why. I don't know if it is explored in the article (I didn't read it).
but anyone care to guess?
it seems obvious once you know.
Mais oui! "Socialist" Canada is more upwardly mobile . Why The American Dream Is More Attainable In Canada Than The U.S. A poor Canadian seeking to better their lot or their child's lot in life is twice as likely to succeed as their American counterpart. www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-martin/social-mobility-study-canada_a_23601542/edit: this article discusses why.
the reason is that when you are secure in your basics (food, water, shelter, health), you are MORE LIKELY TO TAKE RISKS.
that makes sense, right? if your very livelihood is at stake, then if you gamble and LOSE, you are on the streets.
the problem in the US is that we once used to feel secure in our employment, education, shelter, etc. now we feel very insecure in those things, so we eschew risk. but it is RISK that leads to innovation. it is what gets you to the moon. it is what makes paupers millionaires. but we are too afraid to end up destitute. the social safety net is busted, and nobody wants to fall through.
that is why we are fucked. and that is what has to change if we are going to MAGA.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 8, 2019 20:16:41 GMT -5
Unlike DJ,, I am in the top 99% I have no problem with making enough money? As many names as I have been called here,, referring to my intelligence or the lack of,,,,
If I have no problem making money,,, all of you should be Zillionaires!!
Just about everyone in the USA is in the "top 99%". Math isn't your strong suit, is it? Well,,, DJ is in the top 10% I have no problem with being in the top 99%,,,
Demi being in the bottom 1% would be a bummer,, man! Welts,, you are so entertaining!!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 8, 2019 21:28:05 GMT -5
edit: this article discusses why.
the reason is that when you are secure in your basics (food, water, shelter, health), you are MORE LIKELY TO TAKE RISKS.
that makes sense, right? if your very livelihood is at stake, then if you gamble and LOSE, you are on the streets.
the problem in the US is that we once used to feel secure in our employment, education, shelter, etc. now we feel very insecure in those things, so we eschew risk. but it is RISK that leads to innovation. it is what gets you to the moon. it is what makes paupers millionaires. but we are too afraid to end up destitute. the social safety net is busted, and nobody wants to fall through.
that is why we are fucked. and that is what has to change if we are going to MAGA.
Well, of course! We have far less to lose when taking risks. For example, many people in the US hang on to their jobs like grim death, for fear of losing their health benefits. We can't even imagine that.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 8, 2019 21:58:34 GMT -5
Never was a concern for me.. You make you own bed,, you had better make it good cause you are the one that has to sleep in it! when taking risks, You see, I took risks when I started my business,,
Now the Risks have paid off I have a couple of bucks in the bank,, you want me to give money to those that never took any risks,,
Alway's sitting around looking for hand out,,
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 9, 2019 7:05:53 GMT -5
Never was a concern for me.. You make you own bed,, you had better make it good cause you are the one that has to sleep in it! when taking risks, You see, I took risks when I started my business,,
Now the Risks have paid off I have a couple of bucks in the bank,, you want me to give money to those that never took any risks,,
Alway's sitting around looking for hand out,,
Not looking for a hand out. Just a level playing field.
I had a mom who was a SAHM and a dad who could afford to support his family. I never worried about where we would live or if we would have enough to eat. Dad paid for most of my college tuition. I now have a comfortable middle class lifestyle, a good job, a paid off home and a fat retirement fund.
If I was born to a mom addicted to opiods, and a dad in jail, and moved constantly between relatives and shelters and low income housing, and often went to bed hungry and went to school hungry, and had to attend a shitty public school in a poor neighborhood where not much education went on, and my only chance to attend college was to go into debt with SL or get a scholarship, what are the chances that I would now be comfortably well off, with a fat retirement fund?
The problem with expecting people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is that some of us, like Trump, are borne into circumstances where it's very hard to fail, while a large number of other people are borne into circumstances that make it very hard to succeed.
It's not helpful for the ones who have succeeded to become convinced they've done it all due to their own hard work, and all 'those' poor people simply lack a good work ethic. Trump would never been where he is today without his father constantly bailing him out, financially, and then dying and leaving him a 400 million dollar company (which Trump still managed to run into bankruptcy) - yet Trump is so delusional he paid someone to ghost write a book about what a great businessman he was, even when his company was in the red.
Christianity espouses humility and charity. It's astonishing to me how many far right Christians miss that part of the Bible, and prefer to gloat about how great they are and how stupid all the poor people are because they aren't rich, too.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 9, 2019 7:29:52 GMT -5
Life is not fair!! Like me for an example Some just stole my "Will Work For Food " Sign,,, took over my corner,, I will be contacting My attorney!!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 9, 2019 7:34:06 GMT -5
You know,, over a period of time here I have posted how I went out of My way to help the Young man that worked for me, Financially,,, Only to be told what a fool I was!!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2019 10:45:27 GMT -5
Life is not fair!! Like me for an example Some just stole my "Will Work For Food " Sign,,, took over my corner,, I will be contacting My attorney!!
life is not fair, so we just give up on the whole concept and adopt the rule of fang?
should I explain why that way of thinking is utterly immoral, petty, and vicious?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 12:47:11 GMT -5
Never was a concern for me.. You make you own bed,, you had better make it good cause you are the one that has to sleep in it! when taking risks, You see, I took risks when I started my business,,
Now the Risks have paid off I have a couple of bucks in the bank,, you want me to give money to those that never took any risks,,
Alway's sitting around looking for hand out,,
Most don't understand risking your assets. I risked a little over 90% of my total assets for approximately the first ten years of operation. I've had posters tell me I'm demeaning, because the general workers don't get a part of the success of the company. It goes to the "suits". I'm guessing they meant bonuses etc. The rest went to me. When a applicant comes in and offers to put 90% of their assets into the company, guaranteeing they won't move on. I would of been more than willing to share profit, commensurate with the % of the amount, as applied to the companies value. Of course that never happens when a potential employee comes applying for a position, at any level. They're only interested in what they're going to get, salary/benefits. So when the hue and cry gets started about fairness, to bad, go start your own business and rake it in, if you want. The risk of losing everything is in your own hands. If you're not good enough, to be sure of yourself with 90% of your assets on the line. Your weren't good enough to share in the profits from my risk.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2019 13:08:29 GMT -5
you can't pledge assets that you don't own.
so, what you must MEAN is that you would like them to pledge their NET WORTH.
in the case of the bottom 20%, that would mean that you give them $5k AND a share of the profits:
The median net worth of those in the richest quintile is $630,754. That affords them a lifestyle that is vastly different than the bottom quintile. They own three times as much as the next quintile, and 10 times as much as the middle group.
Here is the complete breakout by quintile:
Quintile
Median Net Worth
Bottom 20 Percent -$6,029
Next 20 Percent $7,263
Middle 20 Percent $68,828
Next 20 Percent $205,985
Top 20 Percent $630,754
www.thebalance.com/american-net-worth-by-state-metropolitan-4135839
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 13:12:41 GMT -5
you can't pledge assets that you don't own.
so, what you must MEAN is that you would like them to pledge their NET WORTH.
in the case of the bottom 20%, that would mean that you give them $5k AND a share of the profits:
The median net worth of those in the richest quintile is $630,754. That affords them a lifestyle that is vastly different than the bottom quintile. They own three times as much as the next quintile, and 10 times as much as the middle group.
Here is the complete breakout by quintile:
Quintile
Median Net Worth
Bottom 20 Percent -$6,029
Next 20 Percent $7,263
Middle 20 Percent $68,828
Next 20 Percent $205,985
Top 20 Percent $630,754
www.thebalance.com/american-net-worth-by-state-metropolitan-4135839
Pledge nothing. I would of needed usable liquid assets. With contract of course. That's why this line was in my post you're answering. (#56) "When a applicant comes in and offers to put 90% of their assets into the company, guaranteeing they won't move on."Nothing to offer ? Your take from the company is a paycheck/benefit package equal to your ability to do the job.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on May 9, 2019 14:01:06 GMT -5
I'm pretty the CEO of PG&E or any other big corporation didn't risk 90% of their assets, so why do they make 1000s of times more than the average worker? I'm sure some are really smart and deserve the high pay, but it seems like a lot of big CEOs just know the right people and have the right Ivy League degree paid for by daddy, and that's what gets them the job.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2019 14:06:39 GMT -5
you can't pledge assets that you don't own.
so, what you must MEAN is that you would like them to pledge their NET WORTH.
in the case of the bottom 20%, that would mean that you give them $5k AND a share of the profits:
The median net worth of those in the richest quintile is $630,754. That affords them a lifestyle that is vastly different than the bottom quintile. They own three times as much as the next quintile, and 10 times as much as the middle group.
Here is the complete breakout by quintile:
Quintile
Median Net Worth
Bottom 20 Percent -$6,029
Next 20 Percent $7,263
Middle 20 Percent $68,828
Next 20 Percent $205,985
Top 20 Percent $630,754
www.thebalance.com/american-net-worth-by-state-metropolitan-4135839
Pledge nothing. I would of needed usable liquid assets. With contract of course. That's why this line was in my post you're answering. (#56) "When a applicant comes in and offers to put 90% of their assets into the company, guaranteeing they won't move on."Nothing to offer ? Your take from the company is a paycheck/benefit package equal to your ability to do the job. I am sure my point was not lost on you. you are a bright enough guy.
you can't pledge what you don't own.
if you happen to be in the 20%, you will probably never own a business.
why? because you have nothing to pledge.
that was a very interesting paper I posted. it showed that in the last 20 years, the top 40% has gained 10% in wealth, and the bottom 60% has lost wealth. this is no surprise to anyone, but the overall loss in wealth in the US is bourne ENTIRELY by the bottom 60%. the top 40% are doing just fine, and can go on message boards and tell everyone how easy it is to start a business.
for them.
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