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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2019 12:02:43 GMT -5
Like I said: Two Americas The upper echelon seems to believe the lower class is out to get them, when in all honest, it's the other way around. The guys in my shop, who cannot have their cell phone on their person during working hours, have to pass a drug test, and every minute is monitored, get a big fat $0 for the success of the company. The suite guys are rolling in it. But go ahead and do your big who-hoo, shows your ignorance about how things really are. The class warfare schtick only goes so far. Sounds great in political soundbites. Not so great in the reality of a successful business operating platform. The lower "echelon" as you call them, simply aren't qualified to do the upper echelon jobs. Those "suits" as you say, aren't out to get them, they're just being hired/ employed/payed, at the level that they qualify. The suits don't even care, as long as the job gets done.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on May 4, 2019 12:39:25 GMT -5
Like I said: Two Americas The upper echelon seems to believe the lower class is out to get them, when in all honest, it's the other way around. The guys in my shop, who cannot have their cell phone on their person during working hours, have to pass a drug test, and every minute is monitored, get a big fat $0 for the success of the company. The suite guys are rolling in it. But go ahead and do your big who-hoo, shows your ignorance about how things really are. The class warfare schtick only goes so far. Sounds great in political soundbites. Not so great in the reality of a successful business operating platform. The lower "echelon" as you call them, simply aren't qualified to do the upper echelon jobs. Those "suits" as you say, aren't out to get them, they're just being hired/ employed/payed, at the level that they qualify. The suits don't even care, as long as the job gets done. Still don't get it, do you? Not about class warfare in the least or who is qualified to do what? It's about all employees regardless of their class making a company successful and sharing in that success. But you are right about one thing, the suits don't care as long as they are raking in ALL the benefits of the guys in the shop giving their life's blood to make the company successful.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 5, 2019 0:23:33 GMT -5
I guess I still see 2 Americas. The economy is doing great for the upper middle class, rich and wealthy. For the lower middle class and poor, there hasn't been much change. Trickle down at it's finest. It feels like deja vous. I loved my big bonus, the gains in my 401k that I remember from the early 2000's. But I do not see any politician addressing what we have to know is coming. We cannot continue to add a trillion dollars a year to the debt and not have enough sense to know how it is going to end. Will the next DEM president be able to pull the country out of President Trump's spending spree? For the lower middle class and poor, there hasn't been much change.
There are some people that are not going to work, Many that have drug and alcohol problems, Mental problems, uneducateable by their own choice!
I see. so my severely schizophrenic friend is to blame for his problems.
thanks, I will let his parents know.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 5, 2019 0:25:30 GMT -5
If they are so good at what they do,, go some where else,, or start your own Co.
not everyone has the aptitude for ownership, imo.
that is why 80% of all new businesses fail in the first five years.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 5, 2019 0:28:39 GMT -5
Like I said: Two Americas The upper echelon seems to believe the lower class is out to get them, when in all honest, it's the other way around. The guys in my shop, who cannot have their cell phone on their person during working hours, have to pass a drug test, and every minute is monitored, get a big fat $0 for the success of the company. The suite guys are rolling in it. But go ahead and do your big who-hoo, shows your ignorance about how things really are. Ahhhh, maybe that is what they are paid to do! My guess is you are a trouble maker rather than a mover!! I did not know you worked for DJ!! uh....none of those issues exist in my shop, bro.
I don't have drug testing, I don't have constant monitoring, people can use their cell phone whenever they want. I evaluate employees based on performance. if they can get their work done in the manner I expect, I couldn't care less what they do during their spare time, or even during the time they are working for me, so long as they are not putting themselves or others at risk while doing it.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 5, 2019 0:30:08 GMT -5
Trump now has the 4th best YOY growth in the last decade.
congrats.
I HONESTLY hope he gets to first. that would be tremendous.
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Post by OldCoyote on May 5, 2019 7:52:14 GMT -5
If they are so good at what they do,, go some where else,, or start your own Co.
not everyone has the aptitude for ownership, imo.
that is why 80% of all new businesses fail in the first five years.
I thought I read where 90% fail in two years.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 5, 2019 10:55:23 GMT -5
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Post by Value Buy on May 6, 2019 7:21:33 GMT -5
When the actual data is posted, it does not specify part time or full time. Based on specific job descriptions, you can decide whether they are part time, but I am saying most are fulltime. landscaping, housekeeping, could be part time but lawyers, accountants and consultants are probably full time. If you opened the link in post two, I cannot copy the graphs, but, you will see this: Job gains in the services sectors continued to rocket higher in April as hiring remained hot for computer system designers, social workers and health-care professionals. Manufacturing, on the other hand, posted a third straight month of lackluster employment figures. CNBC studied the net changes by industry for April jobs based on the data from the Labor Department contained in the jobs report released Friday. The government said the U.S. economy added 263,000 jobs last month, more than the 190,000 increase expected by economists polled by Refinitiv. The business and professional services sector alone added 76,000 jobs, with strong hiring in computer systems design, temporary help services, and building and dwelling services like pest extermination, landscaping and housekeeping. The sector also includes lawyers, accountants and consultants. The health care and education sector — a consistent employment juggernaut — came in at second place with a gain of 62,000 jobs. Health care and social services, including ambulatory outpatient care, hospitals and nursing and resident facilities added 50,000 jobs. When Obama pulled the economy out of the gutter, I remember the right screaming "Those are mostly part-time jobs! They don't count!" Naturally, now that it's YOUR guy, all of a sudden they count. That was not me in this group. If you remember, when Obama was near the end of his 2nd term, I gave him a grade of being better than the average President. It did not even hurt me to type that
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 14:09:29 GMT -5
The class warfare schtick only goes so far. Sounds great in political soundbites. Not so great in the reality of a successful business operating platform. The lower "echelon" as you call them, simply aren't qualified to do the upper echelon jobs. Those "suits" as you say, aren't out to get them, they're just being hired/ employed/payed, at the level that they qualify. The suits don't even care, as long as the job gets done. Still don't get it, do you? Not about class warfare in the least or who is qualified to do what? It's about all employees regardless of their class making a company successful and sharing in that success. But you are right about one thing, the suits don't care as long as they are raking in ALL the benefits of the guys in the shop giving their life's blood to make the company successful. I will never "get it" as you say. I was the one who risked everything to be successful. The suits worked for me. You can trust me on this. They didn't get all the benefits Those out in production hardly gave their lives blood. They just move on to another company if the one they are currently at fails, or they are unhappy with the total compensation.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on May 7, 2019 4:22:48 GMT -5
Now you can understand why this country can't make anything. Trickle down does really work. The demeaning attitude of management to the people who really produce trickles right down to the customer.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 7, 2019 10:20:01 GMT -5
dow was down 200 in early trading yesterday. it is down nearly 400 in early trading today.
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Post by Value Buy on May 7, 2019 10:42:02 GMT -5
dow was down 200 in early trading yesterday. it is down nearly 400 in early trading today. Yes, it is not pretty today. 400 points down right now. Now a minute later, 376 S&P 500 broke below 2,900 which is considered a key number of support. Boeing is a big portion of the DOW number.....
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Post by Value Buy on May 7, 2019 10:43:20 GMT -5
And the market drop is the largest one since way, way back to March 22nd of this year.......
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 10:55:17 GMT -5
Now you can understand why this country can't make anything. Trickle down does really work. The demeaning attitude of management to the people who really produce trickles right down to the customer. This country is moving to service economy because of different drivers. Free trade agreements that don't take into effect monetary trade differences/values is one of the bigger ones. Another one is production costs for primary fabrication. The very thing you are having an issue with, demeaning attitude, low paid general employees, is exactly how business operates in third world countries. How would you suggest the US compete with this ? No one is going to pay $100 for an item sold for $50 from oversea producers. What you're saying in the part that I've bolded, is forum posturing nonsense.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 7, 2019 10:59:35 GMT -5
And the market drop is the largest one since way, way back to March 22nd of this year....... i wrote a rather prophetic post on this on SUNDAY over at the investing forum.
edit: how far does -600 go back? edit2: I think it was January 3rd.
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Post by hurley1980 on May 7, 2019 15:32:37 GMT -5
If the market says that comparable jobs are making significantly less than you are making now, why do you think you are underpaid? Salaries are driven by the market I can tell you that accounting salaries have skyrocketed in my area. I’m trying to hide a senior accountant (2-5 years out of school). I can’t get a new senior for less than $60k...and I live in the land of low cost of living! Remember how computerization gutted middle class jobs in manufacturing? It seems middle mgmt is now in the crosshairs, and might explain why so many layers of employment have their wages stagnating. Article is last year, but applies today. www.marketwatch.com/story/this-theory-could-help-explain-why-wages-arent-rising-faster-2018-08-06I believe this has much to do with it. Before my current position, which is specialized, I worked in administration as an executive assistant. Its a job most middle wage office workers can do. But those positions don't pay much anymore, because every college kid with a degree in liberal arts and a knowledge of Microsoft office has flooded the market. Or every middle management guy/girl who was laid off and cant get another management job, started stepping down the ladder just to keep an income coming in.
I work in management right now, and make just over the salary of the people I manage...because my company just kind of kept giving me more and more work, until I was working the position of 3 managers. They are talking about giving me a slight raise, to go with the new title I have been working at for nearly 6 months already, but I'm sure it won't be worth it. So my choices right now are to stay overworked, and underpaid, or go back to working admin and taking a huge pay cut, and dealing with the extreme competition for 1 or 2 project coordinator roles, and 50 people applying for them.
The wages aren't keeping up with inflation, if the jobs now are paying less than when I was hired 12 years ago.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 7, 2019 15:38:12 GMT -5
I believe this has much to do with it. Before my current position, which is specialized, I worked in administration as an executive assistant. Its a job most middle wage office workers can do. But those positions don't pay much anymore, because every college kid with a degree in liberal arts and a knowledge of Microsoft office has flooded the market. Or every middle management guy/girl who was laid off and cant get another management job, started stepping down the ladder just to keep an income coming in.
I work in management right now, and make just over the salary of the people I manage...because my company just kind of kept giving me more and more work, until I was working the position of 3 managers. They are talking about giving me a slight raise, to go with the new title I have been working at for nearly 6 months already, but I'm sure it won't be worth it. So my choices right now are to stay overworked, and underpaid, or go back to working admin and taking a huge pay cut, and dealing with the extreme competition for 1 or 2 project coordinator roles, and 50 people applying for them.
The wages aren't keeping up with inflation, if the jobs now are paying less than when I was hired 12 years ago.
it won't make you feel any better, but you have a lot of company. the bottom 50% of wage earners are in precisely your same boat.
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Post by NastyWoman on May 7, 2019 16:45:33 GMT -5
If they are so good at what they do,, go some where else,, or start your own Co.
not everyone has the aptitude for ownership, imo.
that is why 80% of all new businesses fail in the first five years.
that would be me. I am quite good at what I do and reasonably well compensated but I don't have the stomach for ownership. I just can't handle the idea that if I fail the livelihood of others would be in jeopardy. It is a "I know myself" thingie
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Post by Value Buy on May 8, 2019 10:28:31 GMT -5
I believe this has much to do with it. Before my current position, which is specialized, I worked in administration as an executive assistant. Its a job most middle wage office workers can do. But those positions don't pay much anymore, because every college kid with a degree in liberal arts and a knowledge of Microsoft office has flooded the market. Or every middle management guy/girl who was laid off and cant get another management job, started stepping down the ladder just to keep an income coming in.
I work in management right now, and make just over the salary of the people I manage...because my company just kind of kept giving me more and more work, until I was working the position of 3 managers. They are talking about giving me a slight raise, to go with the new title I have been working at for nearly 6 months already, but I'm sure it won't be worth it. So my choices right now are to stay overworked, and underpaid, or go back to working admin and taking a huge pay cut, and dealing with the extreme competition for 1 or 2 project coordinator roles, and 50 people applying for them.
The wages aren't keeping up with inflation, if the jobs now are paying less than when I was hired 12 years ago.
it won't make you feel any better, but you have a lot of company. the bottom 50% of wage earners are in precisely your same boat. She and you can feel better soon. As the lower paid wage earners receive larger pay raises percentage wise than middle mgmt, the middle level people will start seeing pay increases also. We saw this in the sixties and seventies when factory workers were gaining huge pay increases, as mid level managers received pay increases soon afterward.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 8, 2019 10:32:55 GMT -5
it won't make you feel any better, but you have a lot of company. the bottom 50% of wage earners are in precisely your same boat. She and you can feel better soon. stop right there. I am a 10%-er. I feel fine.
did you mean SHE AND HALF AMERICA?
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Post by djAdvocate on May 8, 2019 10:36:55 GMT -5
We saw this in the sixties and seventies when factory workers were gaining huge pay increases, as mid level managers received pay increases soon afterward. only three problems with that:
1) you are not accurately portraying the trend. the trend started in 1825, and abruptly ended 150 years later. this is not something that "happens every so often". this is something that happened for five generations, and stopped. 2) something like 80% of those factory jobs have moved offshore since 1975. 3) there is absolutely nothing in the tea leaves that says that either of these things are going to be fixed.
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Post by Value Buy on May 8, 2019 10:37:26 GMT -5
She and you can feel better soon. stop right there. I am a 10%-er. I feel fine.
did you mean SHE AND HALF AMERICA?
No, both of you can feel better for the mid level mgrs, unless you do not care they get a raise......which usually means more dollars in their pocket than the lower wage factory workers get, because they start at a larger base salary, and usually get at least the same pct increase as the factory level people get. Example: Ten percent of $15 per hour is $1.50 Ten pct of $20 per hour is $2.00
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Post by djAdvocate on May 8, 2019 10:39:56 GMT -5
stop right there. I am a 10%-er. I feel fine.
did you mean SHE AND HALF AMERICA?
No, both of you can feel better for the mid level mgrs, unless you do not care they get a raise oh. I thought you were talking about my own fortunes.
nobody I employ makes less than $20/hr right now. those are the people I care about most.
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Post by Value Buy on May 8, 2019 10:41:00 GMT -5
And the market drop is the largest one since way, way back to March 22nd of this year....... i wrote a rather prophetic post on this on SUNDAY over at the investing forum.
edit: how far does -600 go back? edit2: I think it was January 3rd.
LOL, at the time of my post the DOW was not down anywhere near 600 points, but I believe you are correct at the 600 point number. BA and CAT really hurt the index because of weighted percentages but then everything was bad yesterday.....
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Post by djAdvocate on May 8, 2019 10:43:10 GMT -5
i wrote a rather prophetic post on this on SUNDAY over at the investing forum.
edit: how far does -600 go back? edit2: I think it was January 3rd.
LOL, at the time of my post the DOW was not down anywhere near 600 points, but I believe you are correct at the 600 point number. BA and CAT really hurt the index because of weighted percentages but then everything was bad yesterday..... one hour before the close, I checked, and it was down 593.
this is trade war stuff. we will see what Trump does this week.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2019 11:54:07 GMT -5
dow is down another 400 this morning.
are we down 1000 this week, yet? it seems like it.
it does not appear to be going well in the trade talks.
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Post by weltschmerz on May 9, 2019 15:03:13 GMT -5
If they are so good at what they do,, go some where else,, or start your own Co. That' where the rubber meets the road,, start your own co.,, You will find out real quick if your as good as you think!! No,it's Wooooo Hooooo, You are the one in charge of your own destiny!` You,,, look in the mirror , You are the one that has to make it happen!! Not some politician.
I'll be happy to start my own company. All I need is a small loan of $60 million from my father. Should be a piece of cake.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 9, 2019 20:08:30 GMT -5
If they are so good at what they do,, go some where else,, or start your own Co. That' where the rubber meets the road,, start your own co.,, You will find out real quick if your as good as you think!! No,it's Wooooo Hooooo, You are the one in charge of your own destiny!` You,,, look in the mirror , You are the one that has to make it happen!! Not some politician.
I'll be happy to start my own company. All I need is a small loan of $60 million from my father. Should be a piece of cake. does it need to be your father, or will any old daddy do?
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on May 9, 2019 21:27:54 GMT -5
I'll be happy to start my own company. All I need is a small loan of $60 million from my father. Should be a piece of cake. does it need to be your father, or will any old daddy do? Hey are you flirting with a cougar?
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