billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 24, 2019 9:19:02 GMT -5
President Trump on Wednesday vowed he would go all the way to the Supreme Court if the “partisan” Democrats try to impeach him, link Wouldn't that set up an interesting situation. Can you imagine a 5-4 vote by the Supreme Court overriding a Legislative Branch's decision there were grounds to impeach.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 24, 2019 9:35:42 GMT -5
actually, no. I can't imagine that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 9:36:48 GMT -5
I never thought they would stop and delay a recount to the point of no remedy and then limit it to only that circumstance so anything is possible.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 24, 2019 9:37:56 GMT -5
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/a-primer-on-the-impeachment-power/527052/
So, he will ask the Supreme Court to over rule a ruling which the Chief Justice John Roberts already presided over?
If he does get Impeached, I predict the Supreme Court will not take up the case, but I don't think the Senate would vote to impeach.
The question is, are republican voters more likely to understand the seriousness of the Charges against trump if Congress has hearings regarding it? It is a gamble I am not sure of the odds of coming out ahead.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 24, 2019 9:49:58 GMT -5
I am losing track of the reason we are moving to impeach this time? Please bring me up to speed on the reason that Trump needs to be impeached, when he was not impeached for all the other reasons that he was going to be impeached.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 24, 2019 9:52:57 GMT -5
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/a-primer-on-the-impeachment-power/527052/
So, he will ask the Supreme Court to over rule a ruling which the Chief Justice John Roberts already presided over?
If he does get Impeached, I predict the Supreme Court will not take up the case, but I don't think the Senate would vote to impeach.
The question is, are republican voters more likely to understand the seriousness of the Charges against trump if Congress has hearings regarding it? It is a gamble I am not sure of the odds of coming out ahead.
If they can't already see the seriousness of the charges, they are probably a lost cause anyway, and I don't think we should let their ignorance and blind faith get in the way of doing what is right for the country. They already deemed this corrupt moron fit for the presidency, so I don't put too much stock in their opinion.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 24, 2019 9:57:15 GMT -5
I don't see the house following through but I guess you need the facts again. It doesn't matter what Barr said. The Mueller report stated 10+ issues that may be obstruction of justice and expected the house to follow through. They can.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 24, 2019 9:58:46 GMT -5
I am losing track of the reason we are moving to impeach this time? collusion or obstruction of justice.
glad I could help.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 24, 2019 10:00:32 GMT -5
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/a-primer-on-the-impeachment-power/527052/
So, he will ask the Supreme Court to over rule a ruling which the Chief Justice John Roberts already presided over?
If he does get Impeached, I predict the Supreme Court will not take up the case, but I don't think the Senate would vote to impeach.
The question is, are republican voters more likely to understand the seriousness of the Charges against trump if Congress has hearings regarding it? It is a gamble I am not sure of the odds of coming out ahead.
A bit of jargon clarification: The House of Representatives votes to Impeach. The Senate votes to remove. As far as the Chief Justice being involved prior to President Trump asking for the Supreme Court to make a ruling, I don't see it playing out that way. I think it would take place after the House passed Article(s) of Impeachment but prior to a Senate trial. I intentionally posted this on Current Events instead of Politics. There is a great question of the politics of impeachment in regards to the current situation but my concern here is the Constitutional issues that could arise from injecting the Supreme Court directly between the Executive Branch and the Legislative Branch in the question of impeachment.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 24, 2019 10:05:38 GMT -5
I am losing track of the reason we are moving to impeach this time? Please bring me up to speed on the reason that Trump needs to be impeached, when he was not impeached for all the other reasons that he was going to be impeached.
Do you even get it, the House can impeach (House=Partisan Democrat) but to remove him from office, the Senate has to have hearings and vote to remove Trump from office (Senate=Partisan Republican). If Trump is impeached by the Senate, he is done, it is over. Even if he is not, once the hearings are televised, a lot of Republican and independent voters will probably turn away from voting for him again.
It is a gamble for the House to take up impeachment hearings, but may well be worth it, even if the Senate refuses to hold Impeachment hearings, it could seriously erode his base. I do think it is a gamble for which the odds of the Democrats coming out on the winning side is worth evaluating.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 24, 2019 10:13:07 GMT -5
Bean, I admire your optimism in thinking televised hearings will change people's minds.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 24, 2019 10:16:36 GMT -5
Sorry but fact check required.
WhIle it would be possible for the House to pass Articles of Impeachment without hearings, they would likely hold them. If Article(s) are passed, the Senate would be Constitutionally required to hold a trial which could end in the removal from office of the President.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 24, 2019 10:25:44 GMT -5
I am losing track of the reason we are moving to impeach this time? Please bring me up to speed on the reason that Trump needs to be impeached, when he was not impeached for all the other reasons that he was going to be impeached.
Do you even get it, the House can impeach (House=Partisan Democrat) but to remove him from office, the Senate has to have hearings and vote to remove Trump from office (Senate=Partisan Republican). If Trump is impeached by the Senate, he is done, it is over. Even if he is not, once the hearings are televised, a lot of Republican and independent voters will probably turn away from voting for him again.
It is a gamble for the House to take up impeachment hearings, but may well be worth it, even if the Senate refuses to hold Impeachment hearings, it could seriously erode his base. I do think it is a gamble for which the odds of the Democrats coming out on the winning side is worth evaluating.
Bean, what are they trying to impeah him for this time? I mean they were going to impeach him cause he had orange hair, will maybe not, But,, He fired Comey,, Impeach him,, He is mentally incompetent, impeach him, He has had a large change over in staff,, Impeach him on each count,, Rosenfeld is gone Impeach him,, He is threating to fire Mueller, Impeach him,,
He is owned by the Russians,, Impeach him,, He is obstruction the Investigation,, Impeach him,, He is colluding with the Russians, Impeach him,,
The people that he hangs out are bad people ,, Impeach him,,
Annnd I am sure I missed some,,, get my the drift of Impeach him,,,
So what are we trying to Impeach Trump for Today?? it will change tomorrow!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 24, 2019 10:42:32 GMT -5
I am losing track of the reason we are moving to impeach this time? collusion or obstruction of justice.
glad I could help.
That's today ,,what is it going to be tomorrow??
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 24, 2019 10:45:19 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 24, 2019 10:52:06 GMT -5
here is an interesting take on why the Democrats should not move to impeach Trump: ... Democrats, nor Republicans for that matter, should never move to impeach for any reason. Only members of the US House of Representatives should move to impeach.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 24, 2019 10:54:26 GMT -5
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oped
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Post by oped on Apr 24, 2019 10:59:56 GMT -5
We must. Impeachment is not a political decision. It is a necessity grounded in the core of our system.
God forbid they don’t impeach him, effectively telling him that his behavior is acceptable... and then he win reelection through manipulation again...
in the last few days alone he has resisted any type of oversight, told people not to testify, sued oversight, denied access...
if there are no impeachment hearings at this time, the republic is effectively over.
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oped
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Post by oped on Apr 24, 2019 11:00:55 GMT -5
Exactly. Failure to impeach is as much as condoning thi# behavior and confirming his narrative which is lie after lie after lie...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 24, 2019 11:32:54 GMT -5
collusion or obstruction of justice.
glad I could help.
That's today ,,what is it going to be tomorrow?? collusion or obstruction of justice.
glad I could help.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 24, 2019 12:04:18 GMT -5
In the mean time between now and the election will come out the investigation about the FBI, DOJ Democratic collusion to keep trump from being elected !! Welcome to politics as usual only in hyper drive,, by both sides before it is over we will question if there is a single decent person any where!!
That is except for me ,, I will be the only one left!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 12:13:44 GMT -5
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/a-primer-on-the-impeachment-power/527052/
So, he will ask the Supreme Court to over rule a ruling which the Chief Justice John Roberts already presided over?
If he does get Impeached, I predict the Supreme Court will not take up the case, but I don't think the Senate would vote to impeach.
The question is, are republican voters more likely to understand the seriousness of the Charges against trump if Congress has hearings regarding it? It is a gamble I am not sure of the odds of coming out ahead.
A bit of jargon clarification: The House of Representatives votes to Impeach. The Senate votes to remove. As far as the Chief Justice being involved prior to President Trump asking for the Supreme Court to make a ruling, I don't see it playing out that way. I think it would take place after the House passed Article(s) of Impeachment but prior to a Senate trial. I intentionally posted this on Current Events instead of Politics. There is a great question of the politics of impeachment in regards to the current situation but my concern here is the Constitutional issues that could arise from injecting the Supreme Court directly between the Executive Branch and the Legislative Branch in the question of impeachment. Convict ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 12:15:57 GMT -5
I am losing track of the reason we are moving to impeach this time? Please bring me up to speed on the reason that Trump needs to be impeached, when he was not impeached for all the other reasons that he was going to be impeached.
Do you even get it, the House can impeach (House=Partisan Democrat) but to remove him from office, the Senate has to have hearings and vote to remove Trump from office (Senate=Partisan Republican). If Trump is impeached by the Senate, he is done, it is over. Even if he is not, once the hearings are televised, a lot of Republican and independent voters will probably turn away from voting for him again.
It is a gamble for the House to take up impeachment hearings, but may well be worth it, even if the Senate refuses to hold Impeachment hearings, it could seriously erode his base. I do think it is a gamble for which the odds of the Democrats coming out on the winning side is worth evaluating.
Or have exactly the opposite effect. His base doesn't see the democrats as being right on this.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 24, 2019 13:54:09 GMT -5
In the mean time between now and the election will come out the investigation about the FBI, DOJ Democratic collusion to keep trump from being elected !! Welcome to politics as usual only in hyper drive,, by both sides before it is over we will question if there is a single decent person any where!!
That is except for me ,, I will be the only one left!! That investigation will be like Bengasi! The GOP controlled Senate will drag witnesses in front of their committee for weeks and weeks and end up with some lame server violation.
On the other hand, the investigation into Trump's inauguration committee is underway, and one lobbyist has already been sentenced for illegally funneling foreign money into Trump's inaugural fund. www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/lobbyist-sentenced-probation-after-funneling-money-trump-inaugural-foreign-nationals-n993861
Ongoing - investigations into other foreign nationals who might have illegally donated, plus evidence that Trumps baby angel Ivanka overcharged the committee 2 - 3 times the going rate to rent space and get catering at the DC Trump Hotel - illegal to overcharge a nonprofit.
Plus - the investigation on whether or not Trump himself authorized top level security access to 25 people whose security clearances had been rejected.
Plus - maybe we'll get a peek into Trump's tax returns (showing his foreign entanglements) before 2020.
Lots to look forward to!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 24, 2019 14:03:09 GMT -5
A bit of jargon clarification: The House of Representatives votes to Impeach. The Senate votes to remove. As far as the Chief Justice being involved prior to President Trump asking for the Supreme Court to make a ruling, I don't see it playing out that way. I think it would take place after the House passed Article(s) of Impeachment but prior to a Senate trial. I intentionally posted this on Current Events instead of Politics. There is a great question of the politics of impeachment in regards to the current situation but my concern here is the Constitutional issues that could arise from injecting the Supreme Court directly between the Executive Branch and the Legislative Branch in the question of impeachment. Convict ? Yeah that word is in there and "Judgment" also but it feels "loaded" unless this part is included also: Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States: but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law. What I see as the really important piece is what the word "impeach/impeachment" does and doesn't mean.
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PK Bucko
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Post by PK Bucko on Apr 24, 2019 14:29:20 GMT -5
This article makes good political sense. If I were a dem trying to advise dems, I'd be on board with this thought process. I remember how popular the impeachment process made Bill Clinton. The guy was untouchable after all of that. Politically, the only reason to impeach/ remove Trump, (if your're a dem) is if you believe the dems will not beat him in 2020. BUT, removal is key. Without removal, Trump would become the new teflon pres.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 24, 2019 15:44:13 GMT -5
This article makes good political sense. If I were a dem trying to advise dems, I'd be on board with this thought process. I remember how popular the impeachment process made Bill Clinton. The guy was untouchable after all of that. Politically, the only reason to impeach/ remove Trump, (if your're a dem) is if you believe the dems will not beat him in 2020. BUT, removal is key. Without removal, Trump would become the new teflon pres. Well, there is the whole thought process that government officials that behave in criminal/unconstitutional behavior should be punished - I can see how some people would view letting Trump remain in office as allowing him to get away with very unethical/un-American/unconstitutional behavior.
However, on the practical side, with the GOP in charge of the Senate, impeachment is very unlikely at this moment. The Dems should put all their efforts into unseating him and holding the House, and not risk letting him walk away from impeachment just as the election is heating up.
I'm fine with that, assuming we can pursue criminal/civil charges against Trump after he's a private citizen again - and Mueller's report makes it clear Mueller thinks that can happen.
The next question could be - should the GOP consider allowing someone else challenge Trump for the primary?
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oped
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Post by oped on Apr 24, 2019 15:49:26 GMT -5
This article makes good political sense. If I were a dem trying to advise dems, I'd be on board with this thought process. I remember how popular the impeachment process made Bill Clinton. The guy was untouchable after all of that. Politically, the only reason to impeach/ remove Trump, (if your're a dem) is if you believe the dems will not beat him in 2020. BUT, removal is key. Without removal, Trump would become the new teflon pres. OMG this isn’t about ambiguous sexual admissions between two consenting adults... he welcomed in a foreign power... he daily trades on his position in violations of emolument clauses, at home and abroad, he refuses to do his duties and attempts to obstruct justice and override separate powers daily at this point... This CAN NOT be precedence...
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oped
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Post by oped on Apr 24, 2019 15:50:48 GMT -5
If we think there is even a slim chance we couldn’t beat him it is why we MUST impeach... can you imagine him more validated than today? More allowed to do whatever the fuck he wants?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 24, 2019 15:55:48 GMT -5
This article makes good political sense. If I were a dem trying to advise dems, I'd be on board with this thought process. I remember how popular the impeachment process made Bill Clinton. The guy was untouchable after all of that. Politically, the only reason to impeach/ remove Trump, (if your're a dem) is if you believe the dems will not beat him in 2020. BUT, removal is key. Without removal, Trump would become the new teflon pres. OMG this isn’t about ambiguous sexual admissions between two consenting adults... he welcomed in a foreign power... he daily trades on his position in violations of emolument clauses, at home and abroad, he refuses to do his duties and attempts to obstruct justice and override separate powers daily at this point... This CAN NOT be precedence... Impeachment, acquittal, and reelection would make it a more powerful precedent. Repudiation by the voters in 2020 would be a more powerful statement that it should not become the norm.
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