Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 10, 2019 16:30:09 GMT -5
Those actions cause the problem. Not getting vaccinated did not cause measles or chicken pox etc. Those risks exist on their own. You are asking people to take extraordinary action to potentially solve your health problem. Vaccinating your kids is not an extraordinary action. It's just common sense. And responsible parenting
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 10, 2019 17:29:41 GMT -5
Posting this because vaccinations have been part of the discussion. Teen defies parents, gets first vaccinations during measles outbreaks in USAn 18-year-old from Norfolk, Ohio, recently made the decision to receive his first-ever vaccines for a number of diseases despite his parents' beliefs. Ethan Lindenberger discussed his decision in an interview with NPR News that was released on Saturday. In the interview, Lindenberger said he had gone without vaccines for diseases like the measles, rubella, mumps and hepatitis for his entire life due to his mother's anti-vaccine beliefs. Complete article here: Teen defies parents, gets first vaccinations during measles outbreaks in US
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Feb 10, 2019 18:48:03 GMT -5
I've been labeled as anti vaxer although I'm not against it. I think parents need to educated themselves more on how the vaccine is made. Anyhow as far as hate, personally I think it's a terrible word but I do think it's OK for anyone to dislike anything or anyone else for any reason political correctness be dammed. Do you think that you're an anti-vaxxer or do you think you're anti-government control?
I understand the latter far more than I understand the former. Anti govt control
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 10, 2019 19:26:30 GMT -5
do you think that public institutions should be able to exercise the same rights as private ones? in other words, if I were to enroll my son in a PRIVATE school that said that children needed to be vaccinated, would that be OK with you? if so, how is that any different than the same policy in a PUBLIC school?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 10, 2019 19:35:04 GMT -5
In our PC world, I don't think we're allowed to "hate" anyone. You can disagree, you can agree to disagree. But IMHO, "hate" is off the table. (BTW, my Mom had the measles as a baby, and another so-called serious illness before the age of 2. She survived both. But then, her Mom stayed up late, sometimes pulling all-nighters, to make sure her kids weren't getting worse as illnesses progressed.) in our country, however, we can hate whoever we like, so long as it does not impact the person or property of non-consenting others.
so long as a hateful person keeps it to themselves and their fellow haters, I am fine with it.
the only problem is that haters are rarely content keeping it to themselves.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 10, 2019 19:53:32 GMT -5
Why? Vaccinated people are protected. ... Whoops. Should have said protect those who have a medical or religious exemption. If you allow religious exemptions you have to allow exemptions for any personal belief system.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 10, 2019 19:59:55 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2019 20:07:58 GMT -5
Whoops. Should have said protect those who have a medical or religious exemption. If you allow religious exemptions you have to allow exemptions for any personal belief system. No I don't.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 10, 2019 20:22:33 GMT -5
If you allow religious exemptions you have to allow exemptions for any personal belief system. No I don't. LOL yes you do. A non religious reason is probably based in more logic.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 10, 2019 20:30:51 GMT -5
This article points out that vaccinations are not the only reason deaths from measles are way down. link The article itself is promoting vaccinations but if you just look at the raw data without their interpretation you can see that we are not in the middle of an epidemic. If you look at the article the total deaths in the US over 10 years is 11. Not an epidemic in my estimation.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2019 20:42:59 GMT -5
LOL yes you do. A non religious reason is probably based in more logic. No need for it to be based on any logic. The US Constitution doesn't require it.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 10, 2019 21:06:29 GMT -5
Global Research? Seriously? Globalresearch is an "anti-Western" website that can't distinguish between serious analysis and discreditable junk — and so publishes both. It's basically the moonbat equivalent to Infowars or WND. While some of GlobalResearch's articles discuss legitimate humanitarian concerns, its view of science, economics, and geopolitics is conspiracist — if something goes wrong, the Jews West didit! The site has long been a crank magnet: If you disagree with "Western" sources on 9/11, or HAARP, or vaccines, or H1N1, or climate change, or anything published by the "mainstream" media, then GlobalResearch is guaranteed to have a page you will love. Whenever someone makes a remarkable claim and cites GlobalResearch, they are almost certainly wrong. rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 10, 2019 21:22:40 GMT -5
From the link....
Conspiracy theories
Anti-vaccination movement:
Vaccines in general are a depopulation tactic.[34] Vaccines cause autism.[35][36] Vaccines in Kenya have been laced with sterility compounds by the WHO and UNICEF.[37][38][39] Bullshit, by the way.[40] Vaccines are toxic.[41] Vaccines don't work.[42][43] Vaccines are highly profitable.[43] All of the above is being covered up by Monsanto and "the West"
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 10, 2019 21:29:04 GMT -5
Have their not been 108 deaths from the vaccines? And I did site another source.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 10, 2019 21:32:59 GMT -5
Have their not been 108 deaths from the vaccines? And I did site another source. How many deaths were there BEFORE vaccines?
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 10, 2019 21:38:32 GMT -5
Have their not been 108 deaths from the vaccines? And I did site another source. How many deaths were there BEFORE vaccines? Check my other link. It shows that the deaths were declining before the vaccines. I'm not actually out to convince anyone not to vaccinate. I'm saying that their are reasons for people to not be comfortable vaccinating.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 10, 2019 21:49:30 GMT -5
How many deaths were there BEFORE vaccines? Check my other link. It shows that the deaths were declining before the vaccines. I'm not actually out to convince anyone not to vaccinate. I'm saying that their are reasons for people to not be comfortable vaccinating.....just as there are reasons rational people don't want their children exposed to your little germ factories. Why don't you start a school for unvaccinated kids only? You know how many parents will send their children there? Zero. These selfish people depend on herd immunity.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 10, 2019 22:11:26 GMT -5
Check my other link. It shows that the deaths were declining before the vaccines. I'm not actually out to convince anyone not to vaccinate. I'm saying that their are reasons for people to not be comfortable vaccinating.....just as there are reasons rational people don't want their children exposed to your little germ factories. Why don't you start a school for unvaccinated kids only? You know how many parents will send their children there? Zero. These selfish people depend on herd immunity. Ya, that's the kind of judgmental bullshit that convinces no one of anything. When I was a kid our parents actually made decisions to expose us to kids that had chicken pox or measles or mumps at times that it was convenient to them for us to be off sick for 2 weeks. Almost every kid I knew got these diseases and not one died of it. And we all have immunity going into adulthood. The deaths from these diseases are mostly (and by that I mean 99.999%) in countries with poor nutrition, health care and hygiene. There are arguments for not immunizing and the people that make that choice are not selfish.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 10, 2019 22:19:07 GMT -5
....just as there are reasons rational people don't want their children exposed to your little germ factories. Why don't you start a school for unvaccinated kids only? You know how many parents will send their children there? Zero. These selfish people depend on herd immunity. Ya, that's the kind of judgmental bullshit that convinces no one of anything. When I was a kid our parents actually made decisions to expose us to kids that had chicken pox or measles or mumps at times that it was convenient to them for us to be off sick for 2 weeks. Almost every kid I knew got these diseases and not one died of it. And we all have immunity going into adulthood. The deaths from these diseases are mostly (and by that I mean 99.999%) in countries with poor nutrition, health care and hygiene. There are arguments for not immunizing and the people that make that choice are not selfish.Well clearly, just because YOU don't know anyone who died from these diseases, then nobody does. ...and as far as I'm concerned, people who depend on herd immunity and don't want to take a risk themselves, ARE being selfish.
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justme
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Post by justme on Feb 10, 2019 22:38:14 GMT -5
Just because someone reported a death as a result of the measles vaccine does not mean that was the actual cause. Very similar to the long lists of side effects. If someone got a migraine during the trial of a drug that's listed as a possible side effect even if that person is someone who got migraines before they started the drug. How many deaths did the vaccine court payout for the measles vaccine?
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 10, 2019 22:41:37 GMT -5
Ya, that's the kind of judgmental bullshit that convinces no one of anything. When I was a kid our parents actually made decisions to expose us to kids that had chicken pox or measles or mumps at times that it was convenient to them for us to be off sick for 2 weeks. Almost every kid I knew got these diseases and not one died of it. And we all have immunity going into adulthood. The deaths from these diseases are mostly (and by that I mean 99.999%) in countries with poor nutrition, health care and hygiene. There are arguments for not immunizing and the people that make that choice are not selfish.Well clearly, just because YOU don't know anyone who died from these diseases, then nobody does. ...and as far as I'm concerned, people who depend on herd immunity and don't want to take a risk themselves, ARE being selfish. A lot of people had my experience. And non vaxxers are not depending on herd mentality.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 10, 2019 22:45:51 GMT -5
Just because someone reported a death as a result of the measles vaccine does not mean that was the actual cause. Very similar to the long lists of side effects. If someone got a migraine during the trial of a drug that's listed as a possible side effect even if that person is someone who got migraines before they started the drug. How many deaths did the vaccine court payout for the measles vaccine? You don't get to say reported deaths for the vaccine don't count but the reported deaths from measles do. I only saw one reported vaccine payout but I only looked at one report and I think it was for just a couple of months. What struck me about that was the flu vaccine payouts. I was also struck by the deaths from the flu. We should be way more worried about the flu than the measles. From my quick research flu deaths blow measle deaths out of the water and always have.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 10, 2019 22:50:32 GMT -5
We should hate all the people that don't get their flu vaccinations regularly!!!
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justme
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Post by justme on Feb 10, 2019 23:02:46 GMT -5
Just because someone reported a death as a result of the measles vaccine does not mean that was the actual cause. Very similar to the long lists of side effects. If someone got a migraine during the trial of a drug that's listed as a possible side effect even if that person is someone who got migraines before they started the drug. How many deaths did the vaccine court payout for the measles vaccine? You don't get to say reported deaths for the vaccine don't count but the reported deaths from measles do. I only saw one reported vaccine payout but I only looked at one report and I think it was for just a couple of months. What struck me about that was the flu vaccine payouts. I was also struck by the deaths from the flu. We should be way more worried about the flu than the measles. From my quick research flu deaths blow measle deaths out of the water and always have. My point is just because it's reported to the CDC as a death from the vaccine doesn't mean that's what actually caused it. Please do your research before you try to make an argument. Anyone can report an alleged negative vaccine result to the CDC and they are obligated to put it in their reports, though that in no way confirms that the allegations are true. That is why you look to what is actually paid out because that is when doctors actually look over the medical records to determine the cause of whatever side effect was reported. However, when deaths from measles are reported they are reported by medical personnel (either those that directly treated the patient or a coroner) after the cause of death is confirmed. Directly from the CDC website "It is generally not possible to find out from VAERS data if a vaccine caused the adverse event." www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vaers/index.htmlA little bit of research would have easily shown that the site you linked to extrapolated out facts that just can't be extrapolated - which the CDC directly states.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 11, 2019 3:50:58 GMT -5
Well clearly, just because YOU don't know anyone who died from these diseases, then nobody does. ...and as far as I'm concerned, people who depend on herd immunity and don't want to take a risk themselves, ARE being selfish. A lot of people had my experience. And non vaxxers are not depending on herd mentality. Non vaxers absolutely DO depend on herd immunity. And they are being orresponsible and selfish because theybenefit from herd immunity, but refuse to participate.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 11, 2019 14:58:06 GMT -5
I have cut off contact with anti-vaxxer friends. I can't say that I *hate* them, but I am frustrated at myself for allowing them so much contact to my family knowing that they are anti-vaxxers with ds and my mom having the issues that they do, not to mention my nephew who is not old enough to be fully vaccinated. Frankly their friends, but they're not worth the risk they carry. I'm sure my friend is confused since I just ghosted her. Maybe an explanation would be kinder, but I don't see that going well either. She's the absolute typical stereotype.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 11, 2019 15:03:57 GMT -5
A lot of people had my experience. And non vaxxers are not depending on herd mentality. Non vaxers absolutely DO depend on herd immunity. And they are being orresponsible and selfish because theybenefit from herd immunity, but refuse to participate. Of course they do!
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 11, 2019 15:38:59 GMT -5
What is hate? If you look at the definition it is extreme personal dislike. <snip> Many people on this board express absolute hate for our president. For the record I do not hate dt, but I despise him with every fiber of my being. Just sayin'
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Feb 11, 2019 15:53:49 GMT -5
I have cut off contact with anti-vaxxer friends. I can't say that I *hate* them, but I am frustrated at myself for allowing them so much contact to my family knowing that they are anti-vaxxers with ds and my mom having the issues that they do, not to mention my nephew who is not old enough to be fully vaccinated. Frankly their friends, but they're not worth the risk they carry. I'm sure my friend is confused since I just ghosted her. Maybe an explanation would be kinder, but I don't see that going well either. She's the absolute typical stereotype. Do you equate that at all to someone disliking/hating/avoiding someone who identifies as LGBTQ? Or someone disliking/hating/avoiding someone who has a religion which the first person finds distasteful? Is any of that the same as being racist or sexist?
I don't have answers. Just questions.
This isn't about the vaccinations specifically. It's about my recognition that I despise a group of people. I despise that group of people because of the decisions they've made and how those decisions could impact my grand baby who isn't old enough to be fully immunized or could impact students I work with who for medical determinations cannot be immunized.
Is it okay for me to despise a group of people?
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Feb 11, 2019 17:03:19 GMT -5
We should hate all the people that don't get their flu vaccinations regularly!!! "regularly"? Guess that means those of us who never get one should be shot No pun intended..
In the line of the OP I dislike the word HATE immensely. But I guess I should say that I hate people who thrive on Hate!! Nope I can't even type that with conviction. I just don't hate - dislike intensely but not hate.
ETA: but I admit that there are some pEEps that wouldn't be able to rise in the morning if not for the hate they spew. Gets em up and puts them to bed,
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