djAdvocate
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only posting when the mood strikes me.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 4, 2019 21:36:56 GMT -5
apparently, rational thought has also frozen over.
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tallguy
Senior Associate
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Post by tallguy on Feb 4, 2019 22:53:30 GMT -5
There are places it never existed at any temperature.
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happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 5, 2019 8:33:32 GMT -5
You mean no one was able to navigate the Northwest passage without ice breakers before Global Warming?
Do you mean if it was a little warmer ,we could play a round of golf at the North Pole?
Yes, historically, the northwest passage was frozen for certain months of the year, and in other months, could be navigated only with an ice breaker, so it was never a reliable shipping channel, up until August 21, 2007:
On August 21, 2007, the Northwest Passage became open to ships without the need of an icebreaker. According to Nalan Koc of the Norwegian Polar Institute, this was the first time the Passage has been clear since they began keeping records in 1972.[6][19] The Northwest Passage opened again on August 25, 2008.[20] It is usually reported in mainstream medias that ocean thawing will open up the Northwest Passage (and within it, the Northern Sea Route) for various kind of ships, making it possible to sail around the Arctic ice cap.[21] and possibly cutting thousands of miles off shipping routes. Warning that the NASA satellite images indicated the Arctic may have entered a "death spiral" caused by climate change, Professor Mark Serreze, a sea ice specialist at the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) said: "The passages are open. It's a historic event. We are going to see this more and more as the years go by."[22][23][24]
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage
My comment about golf was that (if you read the original article I linked) not only can ships other than icebreakers go through the northwest passage, but large cruise ships with putting greens on them are now able to sale through the passage in luxury.
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Deleted
Joined: Apr 19, 2024 19:20:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 12:51:58 GMT -5
You mean no one was able to navigate the Northwest passage without ice breakers before Global Warming?
Do you mean if it was a little warmer ,we could play a round of golf at the North Pole?
Yes, historically, the northwest passage was frozen for certain months of the year, and in other months, could be navigated only with an ice breaker, so it was never a reliable shipping channel, up until August 21, 2007:
On August 21, 2007, the Northwest Passage became open to ships without the need of an icebreaker. According to Nalan Koc of the Norwegian Polar Institute, this was the first time the Passage has been clear since they began keeping records in 1972.[6][19] The Northwest Passage opened again on August 25, 2008.[20] It is usually reported in mainstream medias that ocean thawing will open up the Northwest Passage (and within it, the Northern Sea Route) for various kind of ships, making it possible to sail around the Arctic ice cap.[21] and possibly cutting thousands of miles off shipping routes. Warning that the NASA satellite images indicated the Arctic may have entered a "death spiral" caused by climate change, Professor Mark Serreze, a sea ice specialist at the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) said: "The passages are open. It's a historic event. We are going to see this more and more as the years go by."[22][23][24]
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage
My comment about golf was that (if you read the original article I linked) not only can ships other than icebreakers go through the northwest passage, but large cruise ships with putting greens on them are now able to sale through the passage in luxury.
All the way back, since 1972 ? (Bolded) |
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happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,856
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 5, 2019 13:43:12 GMT -5
Yes, historically, the northwest passage was frozen for certain months of the year, and in other months, could be navigated only with an ice breaker, so it was never a reliable shipping channel, up until August 21, 2007:
On August 21, 2007, the Northwest Passage became open to ships without the need of an icebreaker. According to Nalan Koc of the Norwegian Polar Institute, this was the first time the Passage has been clear since they began keeping records in 1972.[6][19] The Northwest Passage opened again on August 25, 2008.[20] It is usually reported in mainstream medias that ocean thawing will open up the Northwest Passage (and within it, the Northern Sea Route) for various kind of ships, making it possible to sail around the Arctic ice cap.[21] and possibly cutting thousands of miles off shipping routes. Warning that the NASA satellite images indicated the Arctic may have entered a "death spiral" caused by climate change, Professor Mark Serreze, a sea ice specialist at the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) said: "The passages are open. It's a historic event. We are going to see this more and more as the years go by."[22][23][24]
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage
My comment about golf was that (if you read the original article I linked) not only can ships other than icebreakers go through the northwest passage, but large cruise ships with putting greens on them are now able to sale through the passage in luxury.
All the way back, since 1972 ? (Bolded) 1972 was when the first started keeping records.
But then you knew that.
If there was a reliably navigable northwest passage over the artic back during the days when sailing ships were the only means of intercontinental travel - if the northwest passage could be safely traversed even just a few months of the year, there would have been a traffic jam of commercial vessels crammed in there, due to the reduction in sailing time it would offer. But nope, they want the long way around, so either they were suckers for wasting time, or the passage wasn't open enough (or stayed open long enough) to be reliable.
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Deleted
Joined: Apr 19, 2024 19:20:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 13:45:09 GMT -5
All the way back, since 1972 ? (Bolded) 1972 was when the first started keeping records.
But then you knew that.
If there was a reliably navigable northwest passage over the artic back during the days when sailing ships were the only means of intercontinental travel - if the northwest passage could be safely traversed even just a few months of the year, there would have been a traffic jam of commercial vessels crammed in there, due to the reduction in sailing time it would offer. But nope, they want the long way around, so either they were suckers for wasting time, or the passage wasn't open enough (or stayed open long enough) to be reliable.
Yes I did. |
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OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 10, 2019 22:23:33 GMT -5
WOW!!!!! I thought all those Polar bears were dead by now,,,
I mean we had so many report and news stories where all the Polar Bears were dying cause of Global Warming with all that Ice that has melted now, especially now that it is Winter there,
And I see how happy all you living in the North are,, having to chase the monkeys out of your banana trees, cause it is so warm!! Oh notice the picture at the top of their article. Svalbard, Norway on July 20, 2015. there must have been too much snow in that region of Russia, for they get a picture of a Polar Bear!!  |
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mollyc
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 2:12:25 GMT -5
Posts: 868
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Post by mollyc on Feb 10, 2019 23:51:13 GMT -5
WOW!!!!! I thought all those Polar bears were dead by now,,,
I mean we had so many report and news stories where all the Polar Bears were dying cause of Global Warming with all that Ice that has melted now, especially now that it is Winter there,
And I see how happy all you living in the North are,, having to chase the monkeys out of your banana trees, cause it is so warm!! Oh notice the picture at the top of their article. Svalbard, Norway on July 20, 2015. there must have been too much snow in that region of Russia, for they get a picture of a Polar Bear!! I'm sure the Russians would be impressed that you find their predicament amusing. The article says they don't yet know why the polar bears are gathering on the island. Generally, however, an influx of predators into developed areas indicates a problem with their regular food supply and/or environment. So there is currently nothing in this event that is a) amusing or b) counter-evident to the issue of Climate Change and the problems it will cause for Arctic wildlife. While much of the US has been freezing, winter has been largely warmer than normal up here. In fact, often above freezing. We have finally in the past week or so reached the types of negative temperatures I expect of late January - February. However, the problem with this is that the warm weather has caused my dogs to lose the majority of their undercoat. Now that the cold weather is here, they don't have enough fur to tolerate it for long. The wildlife is hopefully in better shape since their dens aren't kept at a steady 20C. |
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mollyc
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 2:12:25 GMT -5
Posts: 868
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Post by mollyc on Feb 11, 2019 0:15:25 GMT -5
You mean no one was able to navigate the Northwest passage without ice breakers before Global Warming?
Do you mean if it was a little warmer ,we could play a round of golf at the North Pole?
Yes, navigating the Northwest Passage without ice breakers wasn't doable for centuries. Reams of Canadian history are built around attempts and failures to do so. You likely will not be able to play golf because it will likely be stagnant bog and muck. |
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mollyc
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 2:12:25 GMT -5
Posts: 868
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Post by mollyc on Feb 11, 2019 0:21:49 GMT -5
Yes, historically, the northwest passage was frozen for certain months of the year, and in other months, could be navigated only with an ice breaker, so it was never a reliable shipping channel, up until August 21, 2007:
On August 21, 2007, the Northwest Passage became open to ships without the need of an icebreaker. According to Nalan Koc of the Norwegian Polar Institute, this was the first time the Passage has been clear since they began keeping records in 1972.[6][19] The Northwest Passage opened again on August 25, 2008.[20] It is usually reported in mainstream medias that ocean thawing will open up the Northwest Passage (and within it, the Northern Sea Route) for various kind of ships, making it possible to sail around the Arctic ice cap.[21] and possibly cutting thousands of miles off shipping routes. Warning that the NASA satellite images indicated the Arctic may have entered a "death spiral" caused by climate change, Professor Mark Serreze, a sea ice specialist at the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) said: "The passages are open. It's a historic event. We are going to see this more and more as the years go by."[22][23][24]
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Passage
My comment about golf was that (if you read the original article I linked) not only can ships other than icebreakers go through the northwest passage, but large cruise ships with putting greens on them are now able to sale through the passage in luxury.
All the way back, since 1972 ? (Bolded) Just because they have only been tracking it since 1972 doesn't mean there aren't records of the Northwest Passage being impassable from before 1972. |
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weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 11, 2019 2:30:19 GMT -5
All the way back, since 1972 ? (Bolded) Just because they have only been tracking it since 1972 doesn't mean there aren't records of the Northwest Passage being impassable from before 1972. Correct. There are other records confirming that it was impassable, going back to 1944. And before that, they spent 300 years looking for it. In 1853 you could only traverse it by sledge. Now there are massive cruse ships docking there. |
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Deleted
Joined: Apr 19, 2024 19:20:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 8:30:58 GMT -5
All the way back, since 1972 ? (Bolded) Just because they have only been tracking it since 1972 doesn't mean there aren't records of the Northwest Passage being impassable from before 1972. Of course. I was concerned about the putting greens. Not so much melting ice. |
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OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 11, 2019 9:41:15 GMT -5
You mean no one was able to navigate the Northwest passage without ice breakers before Global Warming?
Do you mean if it was a little warmer ,we could play a round of golf at the North Pole?
Yes, navigating the Northwest Passage without ice breakers wasn't doable for centuries. Reams of Canadian history are built around attempts and failures to do so. You likely will not be able to play golf because it will likely be stagnant bog and muck. I am pretty sure if all the ice melted at the North Pole, you would be playing golf under Sea Water! Since there is no land there!!
One of the early U.S. Atomic submarines broke thru the ice at the North Pole, Hmmmm, Now I can't remember why. I still don't know why.
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