TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 15, 2018 16:40:27 GMT -5
Our neighbors saga has been on-going since we moved in 2 years ago this coming August...
When we moved in he had just moved out . They have lived in the neighborhood for going on 15 years now and the wife was hopping to buy him out of the house : her two boys grew up in that house, best friends with the kids across the street, have a the other lady next door that helps her out with her son, etc.
Unfortunately it seems she was unable to get approved for a loan to buy the house. Keep in mind they purchased that home in Nov 2003 for $147,000. It seems the wife went on vacation with her boys for 5 weeks this past Friday (she is a teacher and her parents/family live in another country, they do it every summer); and while they were gone the husband came to the house Saturday to clean it up, Sunday there was a for sale sign up... house is listed for $540,000.
We know all those details because my MIL is friends with the neighbor on other side and in the past 15 years living next door to one another and sharing a wall they grew close and she is aware of a lot going on. Plus the wife in question is from Martinique and enjoy speaking French with My MIL and us.
Anyway long story short the neighbor called the wife back home and she is extremely Upset and saying he is in contempt or something similar.
I guess per the divorce decree he was supposed to give her a certain time frame to refinance the house and buy him out... but since she has been unable to do so he has been pushing her to sale. Last week they had a big argument when he brought an agent to the house while she was there and they started arguing outside and she locked them out, not letting them inside the house.
Now she is hoping to fly home as soon as she can get a flight back... I get it they have been there for 15 years and her kids were raised here but if they do sale it at 540k or whatever... they can each walk away with ~175k (after deducting 10% cost of selling) equity and start fresh elsewhere.
Why fight so hard to keep it? 2 years now...
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Jul 15, 2018 16:45:11 GMT -5
What's the COL in Martinique?
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jul 15, 2018 16:45:30 GMT -5
Remember, I went for eight years "in contempt" with this type of situation. Of course, the house was underwater, so forcing a sale would have caused more problems for XH's credit than just riding it out. I'm not saying I agree with the husband's specific choice of listing it, but if he doesn't force her hand this situation could go on much longer than two years. I don't know how an agent could have legally listed it if he didn't have the wife's signature to do so.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 15, 2018 16:48:06 GMT -5
Second : can he really sale the house from under her like that?
When they purchased they purchased the home only under his name (both mortgage and deed) since she was new to the US.
But legally I mean? I get he doesn’t want to cut her out of the proceeds, he just want his money like yesterday.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jul 15, 2018 16:50:50 GMT -5
It would depend on what the divorce decree says.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 15, 2018 16:54:17 GMT -5
Legally it's in his name alone. I don't know if he could sell it without her signature. I guess that depends on the rules in DC.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 17:10:45 GMT -5
When I was going through my divorce I was in a therapy group with a few women in the same situation. One had bought her husband out but was struggling under the heavy debt load. Worse, the Ex (who had been physically abusive) considered it still his territory. It didn't help that she let him in to do minor repairs when needed. My attorney asked me a couple of times if I'd considered buying out the Ex. I told her hell to the No.
I wonder if her share of the equity would be enough for her to get a smaller mortgage and buy something decent. I suspect it wouldn't be, which is why she's digging in her heels. In the meantime, the Ex has his equity and credit tied up in a house he can't live in and can't sell. Sad on both sides.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 15, 2018 23:27:41 GMT -5
People are funny about houses. My DH is a bankruptcy attorney, and he sees the emotions around people's houses. I love my house, my neighborhood and my neighbors, but there are a lot of places to live that would be more affordable and not a significant lifestyle or life change.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 16, 2018 5:31:30 GMT -5
I wouldn’t want to live in a home that I lived in when I was married. Bad karma.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jul 16, 2018 6:12:48 GMT -5
Keeping the house is fine IF you can afford it. However, if it is now on a stretch on a single income, then blowing up your finances to keep the home is going to create far more problems in the long run. Your "home" is where you and your family are. So, better to sell it, split things up and move on to a new way of life. And, if that if it is a smaller home or apt or rental or whatever, so be it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 7:17:29 GMT -5
I wouldn’t want to live in a home that I lived in when I was married. Bad karma. I moved DS after the divorce to a smaller house, same school district, that felt like home as soon as we moved in. DS said, "Dad isn't going to come here, is he?" Moving was the right thing to do.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 16, 2018 7:21:28 GMT -5
I wouldn’t want to live in a home that I lived in when I was married. Bad karma. I was very happy that I am the one that moved out and into my own home. Too many memories wrapped up in a home that you shared with an ex.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 16, 2018 7:28:51 GMT -5
I am sure it is different state-to-state but when I bought houses in Florida, even though they were in my name, my ex would have had rights to them if he lived there. I think they called it homestead rights. We didn't have a prenup so if we battled over assets I'm not sure if it would have help up, but the bank was satisfied enough to not require him to waive his rights when I obtained the mortgage. Counter that to when my ex bought the house we lived in partially using proceeds from a house his mother left him. Since I was going to be living there, the bank did make me waive my rights to any interest in the house or else I had to sign off on the mortgage.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 16, 2018 7:44:26 GMT -5
When I divorced decree stated that the house was to be sold and equity split equally. I moved my son and I out since we would have to move eventually. I didn't want to keep up a 3,000 sq ft and acre lot. My EX was a total neat freak and I knew he would have the house in pristine condition any time they wanted to show it. NOT ME I used friend's address to keep my son in same school district - he was 16 so he had car and could get across town to school. Fortunately house sold in around 90 days so no biggie.
Thing is our house note was probably less than rent but it was all the other crap related with owning a home at that time that I had no desire to deal with. Never felt that attached to something that would drag me down the rabbit hole so to speak.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 8:25:30 GMT -5
Thing is our house note was probably less than rent but it was all the other crap related with owning a home at that time that I had no desire to deal with. Never felt that attached to something that would drag me down the rabbit hole so to speak. I agree immediate sale is best- I used to read a column in the local paper with Q&As with a realtor. So many sad cases where one Ex was stuck because the other Ex was in the house and was SUPPOSED to refinance and get the other party off the mortgage but wouldn't or couldn't. Sometimes lawyers put together really lousy agreements that don't compel a sale after a given period. I bought my first house, a 2-family, with a friend whose ex-wife (unemployed and alcoholic) let the house deteriorate for 10+ years before she finally sold it. There was nothing in the divorce agreement requiring that she sell it. He had very little to add to our down payment- it was all tied up in the house his Ex wouldn't leave. DH, at least, knew what he was getting into when he let his ex-wife keep the house till their son reached age 18. She paid the mortgage and kept it up and he was finally able to buy a house when she refinanced and he got his share of the equity. She later sold it for $500K as a tear-down (Westfield, NJ- highly desirable commuter town).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 8:33:25 GMT -5
Ex 1.0 was "stuck" for 8 years until I was able to refinance on my own. He even refinanced with me once in that 8 years to get a lower rate. I don't feel guilty about that at all...as far as I'm concerned, he owed me. He never said two words about it either, so I'm guessing he felt that way too. I was finally able to put it in my name only in 2012. Without all that debt on his credit report he was able to go get a bunch of his own. He bought a new house, two new cars, a tractor, a boat...he was financially healthier when my house kept him in check!
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 16, 2018 8:40:04 GMT -5
My math is a little different than yours, Carl. My wild-ass guess is that two thirds of the original purchase amount are still owed and that their agreement is to split the equity or the proceeds of the sale. I see her having to either finance something like $300K, more if she doesn't have some language cutting her a break on the realtors' fees, or walking away with something a little shy of $200K.
You probably have a lot more insight than I do regarding her ability to qualify for a $300K. I await your gossip, speculation, and personal experience with what it takes to get a loan like that.
I have to wonder what the agent who accepted the listing was told.
Did you get the sale price from an listing online, or from some other source?
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 16, 2018 8:45:03 GMT -5
Thing is our house note was probably less than rent but it was all the other crap related with owning a home at that time that I had no desire to deal with. Never felt that attached to something that would drag me down the rabbit hole so to speak. I agree immediate sale is best- I used to read a column in the local paper with Q&As with a realtor. So many sad cases where one Ex was stuck because the other Ex was in the house and was SUPPOSED to refinance and get the other party off the mortgage but wouldn't or couldn't. Sometimes lawyers put together really lousy agreements that don't compel a sale after a given period. I bought my first house, a 2-family, with a friend whose ex-wife (unemployed and alcoholic) let the house deteriorate for 10+ years before she finally sold it. There was nothing in the divorce agreement requiring that she sell it. He had very little to add to our down payment- it was all tied up in the house his Ex wouldn't leave. DH, at least, knew what he was getting into when he let his ex-wife keep the house till their son reached age 18. She paid the mortgage and kept it up and he was finally able to buy a house when she refinanced and he got his share of the equity. She later sold it for $500K as a tear-down (Westfield, NJ- highly desirable commuter town). We had it set up so that if we got an offer and one of us refused the offer and then got another offer that was less the first refuser had to pay the difference - if that makes sense. But we were lucky and the first offer was full price and for cash - easy peazy and all was happy in divorce land. I am beginning think after reading so much stuff about divorces that I had the easiest divorce on record!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 8:53:57 GMT -5
We had it set up so that if we got an offer and one of us refused the offer and then got another offer that was less the first refuser had to pay the difference - if that makes sense. But we were lucky and the first offer was full price and for cash - easy peazy and all was happy in divorce land. I am beginning think after reading so much stuff about divorces that I had the easiest divorce on record!! I was VERY relieved when the house the Ex and I owned sold after multiple bids above the asking price (hot area, hot market). Later during the financial crisis I read sad stories about couples who were divorced but still living together because they couldn't sell the house for enough money to cover the mortgage.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Jul 16, 2018 10:38:26 GMT -5
I wouldn’t want to live in a home that I lived in when I was married. Bad karma. That was my immediate reaction when I divorced. Years later when emotions died down, and housing prices went up, I'd regretted letting it go a bit. Then a few more years with recovered credit and a new home I'm glad I let it go. I think feelings are going to be relative to your options.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 16, 2018 12:51:40 GMT -5
I wish someone would explain this to me. This has been a HUGE bone of contention in my sister’s divorce. Both TD and I told her she needs to get out from underneath this albatross and get a fresh start. She said I don’t understand as this is where her babies grew up. Maintaining it with no help is expensive and a lot of work. The down payment for the house came from her IRA, and they built it, so she feels more than average for it, I guess. Only problem is it is 20+ years and needs work.
She has these visions of buying him out after the 2 years (her deal is she lives there until the youngest graduates from HS next June), and she’d need a $300k mortgage. To handle that, she needs an income of $100k....and that isn’t going to happen.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 16, 2018 13:53:18 GMT -5
I wish someone would explain this to me. This has been a HUGE bone of contention in my sister’s divorce. Both TD and I told her she needs to get out from underneath this albatross and get a fresh start. She said I don’t understand as this is where her babies grew up. Maintaining it with no help is expensive and a lot of work. The down payment for the house came from her IRA, and they built it, so she feels more than average for it, I guess. Only problem is it is 20+ years and needs work. She has these visions of buying him out after the 2 years (her deal is she lives there until the youngest graduates from HS next June), and she’d need a $300k mortgage. To handle that, she needs an income of $100k....and that isn’t going to happen. And I bet her "babies" don't give a rat's a@@! But I will say I missed the sentimental gene about stuff!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 16, 2018 17:56:05 GMT -5
I am sure it is different state-to-state but when I bought houses in Florida, even though they were in my name, my ex would have had rights to them if he lived there. I think they called it homestead rights. We didn't have a prenup so if we battled over assets I'm not sure if it would have help up, but the bank was satisfied enough to not require him to waive his rights when I obtained the mortgage. Counter that to when my ex bought the house we lived in partially using proceeds from a house his mother left him. Since I was going to be living there, the bank did make me waive my rights to any interest in the house or else I had to sign off on the mortgage.
If it's in Virginia the spouse would have "dowager rights" or an automatic 1/3 interest. A title company won't insure without getting the wife's quitclaim.
That said, the husband could make an argument that it's been two years and it's time to move on. A judge could order the property to be sold.
ETA: back in the early 80s I had a client try to hang onto the house using the argument that it was a bad time to sell. And it was because the interest rates were still in 15% range. That said there was equity in the house. He was successful in delaying the sale for about two years and renting it out but the judge did grant the wife's request to sell. I actually had to co-list the house with an agent from another company so that both interests were represented.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 16, 2018 18:19:30 GMT -5
I think that is the thing: she has managed to delay it for 2 years and her time is up... he wants his money and he wants it now.
He does not seem to care whether she keeps it or sale; he just want his half of the equity to move on with the new Mrs (seems she is the one adding the pressure because money from the sale of the house is their down payment.)
But at 540k my wife thinks it will seat for a bit because they have not done any major updates to the house since they purchased it in 2003.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 19:07:02 GMT -5
Why fight so hard to keep it? 2 years now... She'd need to qualify for a mortgage of about $275,000 (the $100K or so due on the current mortgage plus $175K to buy him out). Not gonna happen on a schoolteacher's salary unless he pays a pile of child support. If they sell and she takes her $175,000 she's still going to need a big mortgage to buy anything big enough for her and the kids in a good neighborhood/school district. No wonder she wants to stay where she is and keep paying on the original mortgage. Yeah, I can see how the new Mrs. might be impatient, but she should have known that there were risks that this would not end well. As for her not being on the title, if it were Ohio she'd have to sign over her "dower rights" to the new buyer. I'm sure other states and probably DC are similar; the idea is that even if the spouse is not on the title they have an interest in it because if the owner dies, they have a right to (generally) 2/3 of their spouse's estate, even if the spouse leaves a will giving them less. (They can elect to "take against the will" and get 2/3 anyway.) So, they need to consent to the owner signing away the property because they have a right to inherit a substantial part of it. Maybe the realtor listed the house figuring they'd straighten it out if a buyer were found.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 16, 2018 19:41:14 GMT -5
Maybe the realtor listed the house figuring they'd straighten it out if a buyer were found. You might be onto something because while a for sale sign is up with realtor name etc, it is not showing on any MLS. Curious I’ve reached out to the seller agent since I have a cousin that is looking into moving to this area and got this answer : And off course the sales pitch: So maybe putting it on the market is a way to drum up interest/noise and see if anyone is interested as a way to force her hand and force her to sale.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 31, 2018 15:02:57 GMT -5
Remember how I posted how there is a sign on the home that it is for sale yet not on Redfin, Zillow or any other website.
Also the agent gave me the message that the house is only for show to other agents and not open to the public.
Anyway today the neighbor posted on Nextdoor for our neighborhood :
“Hello neighbors,
You might have noticed a For Sale sign on (home address) but it is not really for sale. My ex-husband is trying to sell my house while I am on vacation with our kids in (X location (visiting my family). He is going against the judge's order on the divorce decree. I am asking you to refrain going to my house for a tour while I am away. I am working with different lawyers to stop this sale and planning to shorten my trip abroad. Thanks for your understanding of the situation.”
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 31, 2018 15:08:15 GMT -5
I have so many questions ... but let’s start with :
how did he get an agent to list it?
Is he wrong if she cannot seem to get approved to buy him out?
The divorce decree must have a timeframe to buy him out or him forcing a sale or she can keep it going till she gets approved?
Also let’s say now they have ~400k equity... and the market crashes... so now home is worth less and she can afford to buy him out. Will she owe on the current “estimated value” or the “new market value”?
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Jul 31, 2018 15:17:56 GMT -5
Legally, who owns the house? Is it solely in the STBXH’s name or both? It solely his, then he can do as he pleases. If both, I’m now sure how a realtor could list it if both hadn’t signed the contract.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 31, 2018 16:18:26 GMT -5
I saw some ridiculous things going on with a family members divorce when it came to the house. They were both on the mortgage and she was supposed to sell while they split the proceeds. She dragged it out for almost a decade, took additional mortgages out on the house (hundreds of thousands of dollars), said she did that to fix it up but that turned out to be BS because she couldn't prove the money was spent on the house. At that point any proceeds should have been his but because he doesn't have a backbone they were still going to split what was left after the sale. The instructions were that the proceeds from the selling agent were supposed to be sent to his lawyer to be distributed. Escrow was taking longer than he thought it should so he called the agent to find out the sale was complete and they were about to hand her the check that afternoon. I don't know all the details of how it got dragged out that long but obviously it's not an easy situation to deal with especially when one of the parties involved wants more than half and to make life hell for the other one.
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