Military Guarding Border

[djAdvocate]

Apr 4, 2018 13:13:52 GMT -5 retread said:

Apr 4, 2018 12:54:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

North and South Korea are still at war.  the US and Spain are not. 

You misspelled England and Spain.

spelling was never my strong suit.

[retread]

Apr 4, 2018 13:44:17 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 4, 2018 13:13:52 GMT -5 retread said:

You misspelled England and Spain.

spelling was never my strong suit.

Apparently not mine, either.  England was involved and I misspelt misspelt.

[NastyWoman]

Did I miss it? Has anyone seen a plan to protect the wall from being breached after we build it? And for the proponents of this wall: please provide a cost projection for this effort for the next year/decade(s) and provide the source from which we will pay this.

Don't say Mexico because we all know how enthousiastic Mexico is about paying for this wall to begin, so as far as securing it... I don't think that will be much better.

[billisonboard]

Apr 4, 2018 18:37:15 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Did I miss it? Has anyone seen a plan to protect the wall from being breached after we build it? ...

You didn't miss it on this thread because the topic of this thread is use of the US Military to patrol the border. I do know that there are other threads to discuss the wall (again).

[djAdvocate]

Apr 4, 2018 18:37:15 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Did I miss it? Has anyone seen a plan to protect the wall from being breached after we build it?

there are these things called ladders and ropes.  i really don't get how a wall helps without guard towers every 500' or so.  2000 miles of wall = 10 MILLION feet.  that is 21,000 guard towers.  add that to the cost.

the idea gets stupider with every detail you add.

[NastyWoman]

Apr 4, 2018 18:47:46 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 4, 2018 18:37:15 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Did I miss it? Has anyone seen a plan to protect the wall from being breached after we build it? ...

You didn't miss it on this thread because the topic of this thread is use of the US Military to patrol the border. I do know that there are other threads to discuss the wall (again).

Well, anon was asking in post #18 why nobody wanted to secure the border, so I gave him his wall (printed parts) and asked how he would secure the wall. Military might have been an answer, although how many troops you would need to secure the wall is anyone's guess, as is the cost associated with it.  I was just looking for his answer (which is MIA)

[kadee79]

Where are they going to house & feed all the National Guard that is supposed to be protecting our border with Mexico?

How many will it take & for how long?....since the NG are regular folks who have jobs in civilian life!

This could get complicated.....

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/what-is-national-guard-ferguson-missouri

[Tennesseer]

Apr 4, 2018 20:52:02 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Where are they going to house & feed all the National Guard that is supposed to be protecting our border with Mexico?

How many will it take & for how long?....since the NG are regular folks who have jobs in civilian life!

This could get complicated.....

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/what-is-national-guard-ferguson-missouri

Why in all the American ranchers' and other citizens' homes along the border which the government will take take through eminent domain of course. The government will slaughter the ranchers' livestock for food.

[MN-Investor]

The National Guard will NOT be doing law enforcement at the border. They will not be interacting with people attempting to cross the border. As they have in the past - under Presidents Bush and Obama - they will be performing support operations. I'm sure Trump would have loved to have an armed militia guarding the border, but that is NOT what the National Guard is allowed to do. However, Trump's supporters will never know the difference because they only hear what they want to hear.

[resolution]

I would much rather have them on the border performing support operations then off invading random foreign countries.

[billisonboard]

Apr 5, 2018 3:41:51 GMT -5 resolution said:

I would much rather have them on the border performing support operations then off invading random foreign countries.

I would much rather have our military be of a size that neither be possible. I would also prefer our National Guard not be used as a political tool by our President.

[happyhoix]

Apr 4, 2018 23:35:20 GMT -5 MN-Investor said:

The National Guard will NOT be doing law enforcement at the border. They will not be interacting with people attempting to cross the border. As they have in the past - under Presidents Bush and Obama - they will be performing support operations. I'm sure Trump would have loved to have an armed militia guarding the border, but that is NOT what the National Guard is allowed to do. However, Trump's supporters will never know the difference because they only hear what they want to hear.

I think what Trump would really love to have is a wall like the great Chinese wall, lined with minions wearing armor with his face enameled on each breastplate, with Trump logo flags fluttering overhead, and trolls and trebuchets to beat back the caravanning hordes of marauders from the north.

Look at his decorating style at his resorts, hotels and golf courses - he leans to the lavish side of the style chart, not the practical.

[OldCoyote]

Apr 4, 2018 10:08:55 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Apr 4, 2018 8:45:31 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Why not bills,  No mans land, any one is fair game. target practice.

unauthorized airplane, shoot it down,

boat in the wrong place wrong time.  blow it out of the water,

If some one is caught illegally in this country, return them to their country, Let them out at five thousand foot, without a parachute!

See, border security!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You realize there are a lot of private ranch lands abutting the border, right? And plenty of sport fishermen or recreational boaters who might be out for a jaunt on the ocean?

How popular will your 'shoot first ask questions later' border patrol be among the red states when the first ranch employee gets shot or fishing boat sunk? Think they'll shrug it off and say the guy must have been doing something wrong, or in the wrong place, like they do with black guys get killed by the cops?  Or will they think the collateral damage is ok as long as most of the people getting killed are the brown people trying to get into the country?

Not since the Supreme Court ruled that the government can take your land forrrrrr just about any reason they want,

Screw those farmers and ranchers!
I am sure they will feel the love when the SWAT teams show up   "We are here to assist you"

[OldCoyote]

Ok here is a question,build a wall, one time expense, plus maintenance. keeping the pretty much the same border patrol in place, It won't stop every thing,
but it might stop that semi load of coke from sneaking across in one piece.

Or, build up the border Patrol to the point that it is huge, use high dollar drone, that require high dollar maintenance, use high dollar surveillance equipment. which again requires high dollar maintenance.
not counting the cost of the medical and retirement packages as this huge border patrol starts to retire!

[billisonboard]

Apr 5, 2018 9:49:43 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Ok here is a question ,build a wall, ..., It won't stop every thing,
but it might stop that semi load of coke from sneaking across in one piece.

...

good realization of what a wall might actually be able to stop. I don't think it is worth it if all it will do is force some drug smugglers to adopt a different method to get drugs into the country. 

[dezii]

Apr 5, 2018 9:49:43 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Ok here is a question,build a wall, one time expense, plus maintenance. keeping the pretty much the same border patrol in place, It won't stop every thing,
but it might stop that semi load of coke from sneaking across in one piece.

Or, build up the border Patrol to the point that it is huge, use high dollar drone, that require high dollar maintenance, use high dollar surveillance equipment. which again requires high dollar maintenance.
not counting the cost of the medical and retirement packages as this huge border patrol starts to retire!

Because our Donald says there is a hugh problem of Drugs and illegals coming into the States over our Southern Border does not necessarily say or mean  it is so...The man has a history of just saying what ever he feels like saying with little thought if it is true or not. [ Means he is a known and habitual lier]

All studies show that the incidents of illegals coming into the country from Mexico is not happening anywhere near the way it use to be and a wall at say $20/25 Billion is really not needed, or affordable...put the $ into infrastructure is a better way to spend the $...

Our Donald said Mexico will pay for it...naturally as we know, they won't and all studies say a wall as he envisioned it is not needed...so he is fine with spending those hugh sums to satisfy a minority of Americans...his so called base...

I am not part of his base...I say no and hope the Congress...both parties continue to give him a hard time on this project of his...

For those interested...five facts dealing with illegals in the country...
---------------------------------------------
www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
============================

That it is reported he is ballistic over this and up set....my feelings?  Couldn't happen to a better guy..."eat your heart out" is how I look at it.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Apr 5, 2018 10:03:47 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 5, 2018 9:49:43 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Ok here is a question ,build a wall, ..., It won't stop every thing,
but it might stop that semi load of coke from sneaking across in one piece.

...

good realization of what a wall might actually be able to stop. I don't think it is worth it if all it will do is force some drug smugglers to adopt a different method to get drugs into the country. 

The obvious solution is to appropriate more money to build walls on the entire US coastline, cuz there will be an uptick of drugs smuggled into unprotected waterways!    

[OldCoyote]

Apr 5, 2018 10:03:47 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 5, 2018 9:49:43 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Ok here is a question ,build a wall, ..., It won't stop every thing,
but it might stop that semi load of coke from sneaking across in one piece.

...

good realization of what a wall might actually be able to stop. I don't think it is worth it if all it will do is force some drug smugglers to adopt a different method to get drugs into the country. 

So in other word there is nothing we can do, cause they will find a way around it.

Well hell, let's save a whole bunch of money, disband the border patrol tear down what fences, we have.

We can have a free for all..

Look at the money We can save!
The cost of the drug will plummet cause it is no longer hard to get them in here .
We can avoid tariffs and import taxes. 

Hey, We can balance the budget, that is is important now, but not under the last president!!

Hey!!!! what could possibly be a down side of total open borders??
 

[billisonboard]

Apr 5, 2018 10:22:26 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

So in other word ...

No.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 5, 2018 9:49:43 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Ok here is a question,build a wall, one time expense, plus maintenance. keeping the pretty much the same border patrol in place, It won't stop every thing,
but it might stop that semi load of coke from sneaking across in one piece.

Or, build up the border Patrol to the point that it is huge, use high dollar drone, that require high dollar maintenance, use high dollar surveillance equipment. which again requires high dollar maintenance.
not counting the cost of the medical and retirement packages as this huge border patrol starts to retire!

A much better plan (and cheaper too)-go after the people who employ illegal immigrants. Fines and prison sentences. If there is no way of earning a living here or to be able to receive social services, illegal immigrants will leave the country for better pastures.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 5, 2018 10:10:29 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

Apr 5, 2018 10:03:47 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

good realization of what a wall might actually be able to stop. I don't think it is worth it if all it will do is force some drug smugglers to adopt a different method to get drugs into the country. 

The obvious solution is to appropriate more money to build walls on the entire US coastline, cuz there will be an uptick of drugs smuggled into unprotected waterways!    

Those walls around the U.S. coastline and land borders will have to be at least 40,000 feet in height too.

[thyme4change]

I watched tgis story on Fox and CNN this morning.

CNN gave historic figures from years past, noting how low border crossings are, even if the have increased over the last couple of months.

Fox showed a graph from early 2017, which was the lowest in 20 years, like insanely low for about 6 months and then had the line go way up. It looked ominous for sure. Basically, we are back to normal levels, which is what he campaigned against. But, it isn't a bigger problem now than it was in 2013 - 2016.

In 2017, Trump presided over the 6 lowest months of border apprehensions since October 2012. His average over the 15 months he has been in office is 30% lower than Obama.

I wonder if March was an anomaly.

[happyhoix]

Apr 5, 2018 9:49:43 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Ok here is a question,build a wall, one time expense, plus maintenance. keeping the pretty much the same border patrol in place, It won't stop every thing,
but it might stop that semi load of coke from sneaking across in one piece.

Or, build up the border Patrol to the point that it is huge, use high dollar drone, that require high dollar maintenance, use high dollar surveillance equipment. which again requires high dollar maintenance.
not counting the cost of the medical and retirement packages as this huge border patrol starts to retire!

You realize drug smugglers like to dig tunnels, right? Much safer way to get your drugs into the country.

The drug lords are going to smuggle the stuff in, one way or another, wall or no wall. Our money will be better spent trying to infiltrate the gangs, shut down the tunnels, seize the shipments and bust up the drug networks.  Building a big ass wall won't make much of a difference in drug smuggling, one way or another.

[happyhoix]

Apr 5, 2018 10:46:34 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 5, 2018 9:49:43 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Ok here is a question,build a wall, one time expense, plus maintenance. keeping the pretty much the same border patrol in place, It won't stop every thing,
but it might stop that semi load of coke from sneaking across in one piece.

Or, build up the border Patrol to the point that it is huge, use high dollar drone, that require high dollar maintenance, use high dollar surveillance equipment. which again requires high dollar maintenance.
not counting the cost of the medical and retirement packages as this huge border patrol starts to retire!

A much better plan (and cheaper too)-go after the people who employ illegal immigrants. Fines and prison sentences. If there is no way of earning a living here or to be able to receive social services, illegal immigrants will leave the country for better pastures.

Anonymous source, didn't you say before that you hire illegals?

[Tennesseer]

Interesting article from 2012:

The failure of the Great Wall

Considering the size and effort put into its construction over 2,000 years ago, the failure of the Great Wall of China is rather spectacular. It worked as a manifestation of power that put fear into the hearts of barbarian riders but it didn’t keep any invaders from the north out.

Rumoured to have been built using the dead, the construction took hundreds of years and some people still mistakenly believe it’s visible from the Moon. However, as a defensive measure against invading forces, it has been about as useful to China as a Bible on a battlefield. It can give you comfort, but it just won’t stop the enemy.

Another argument is that the Great Wall was nothing more than an ambitious project contrived by a vainglorious emperor. The Great Wall was supposed to show the world China’s superiority, making a clear distinction between civilized people and barbarians.


Complete article here:  The failure of the Great Wall

[happyhoix]

Apr 5, 2018 11:43:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Interesting article from 2012:

The failure of the Great Wall

Considering the size and effort put into its construction over 2,000 years ago, the failure of the Great Wall of China is rather spectacular. It worked as a manifestation of power that put fear into the hearts of barbarian riders but it didn’t keep any invaders from the north out.

Rumoured to have been built using the dead, the construction took hundreds of years and some people still mistakenly believe it’s visible from the Moon. However, as a defensive measure against invading forces, it has been about as useful to China as a Bible on a battlefield. It can give you comfort, but it just won’t stop the enemy.

Another argument is that the Great Wall was nothing more than an ambitious project contrived by a vainglorious emperor. The Great Wall was supposed to show the world China’s superiority, making a clear distinction between civilized people and barbarians.


Complete article here:  The failure of the Great Wall

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[engineerdoe]

Apr 4, 2018 21:03:53 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 4, 2018 20:52:02 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Where are they going to house & feed all the National Guard that is supposed to be protecting our border with Mexico?

How many will it take & for how long?....since the NG are regular folks who have jobs in civilian life!

This could get complicated.....

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/what-is-national-guard-ferguson-missouri

Why in all the American ranchers' and other citizens' homes along the border which the government will take take through eminent domain of course. The government will slaughter the ranchers' livestock for food.

The housing has been my question too.  And of course we already know how this is going to turn out:


www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Military-patrols-were-halted-after-1997-killing-12803149.php

[dondub]

  That's a great question happyhoix. I believe I remember him saying he had. Of course he will also know other Arizonans that have also done so. Most likely

some anti-govt. diatribe for justification...and a fatter wallet.

[swamp]

I still don't understand how a multibillion dollar wall is going to do anything about the people who came here to visit legally and overstayed their visa/time allotment. 

Maybe putting more effort into tracking those people down?    And more resources in the courts/agencies who are reviewing applications?   Drones with heat sensors and night vision would be the best way to track down people sneaking in.   

Or is that too high tech and complex for the "build the wall" neanderthals? 

[swamp]

Apr 5, 2018 9:49:43 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Ok here is a question,build a wall, one time expense, plus maintenance. keeping the pretty much the same border patrol in place, It won't stop every thing,
but it might stop that semi load of coke from sneaking across in one piece.

Or, build up the border Patrol to the point that it is huge, use high dollar drone, that require high dollar maintenance, use high dollar surveillance equipment. which again requires high dollar maintenance.
not counting the cost of the medical and retirement packages as this huge border patrol starts to retire!

Huh?  Semis are driving across the desert?

it gets smuggled in at regular border crossings.   Or flown in.  Or boated in.   The wall is going to do nothing to stop this.