Money Pit of a house- what would you do?

[sheilaincali]

Background. My friend recently bought a house and it is quickly turning into a money pit. They had it inspected (used the inspector the Realtor recommended) and now they are finding tons of things wrong. Things that, in my opinion, the inspector should have caught.

What does she do now? Sue people? Complain to the Realtor? Inspector?

Closed on the house on March 4th. March 11 noticed a water problem in the basement. Pulled up tiles and baseboard and found significant water- as in drywall backs covered in mold, insulation soaked. Now the lights started flickering and sparks started coming out of the electrical box.

So What would you all do?

[HoneyBBQ]

She can try to sue the inspector but it'll be very hard to prove and/or collect. They have to show significant lapse of judgment ... and it's really hard to prove in court.

I'd probably just get it fixed and move on with my life. How much is the house worth relative to the repairs?

[comom1]

Unfortunately, the inspector only inspects what is visible without pulling anything up, out or over. She's going to have a hard time suing anyone unless she can prove that the seller or the Realtor knew of the defect and deliberately didn't disclose it. Since she and the inspector didn't see any water damage, it's very possible the owner was never aware of it either.

[sheilaincali]

There were some pretty blatant things the inspector missed. Like hot water not being hooked up in the kitchen. The electric plug in for the dryer being directly below the water line (which is against code).

When the electrician opened the panel his response was "Holy Bleep!" and then the sparks started flying- Literally.

The Realtor sold them a house that wasn't technically on the market yet. It was some friends of his that had moved out of state. They were planning on putting the house on the market when the Realtor mentioned it to my friend after they had seen several houses they didn't like. It had the floor plan they wanted and was in a desirable neighborhood.

I honestly didn't think she had a lot of legal recourse but I did still recommend that she complain to both the Realtor and the Inspector about the problems she is having.

[sheilaincali]

Honey: They paid $180,000. It was appraise at $195,000. So far she has spent over $2000 in repairs and that's before today's electrical issue. They have been in the house for exactly 3 weeks.

[thyme4change]

I put $15,000 into it, fixing it up - new electrical, new plumbing, mold removal, dry wall, and be into a $195k house for $195k.

If it is a great neighborhood and a great floor plan, electrical and plumbing problems don't change that. Sure, it sucks. But now isn't a great time to cheap out and not do the repairs. If they live there for a long time, the new plumbing and electrical will be a comfort to them.

[sheilaincali]

That's their thinking too. She is willing to make the repairs just feels a little mislead by the home inspection.

I feel for her because her DH is a pilot and gone a LOT. Like as in he was here the day of closing, and about 3 other days this month. So she feels like every time she calls him it's with bad news about the house.

[whoami]

Our house was brand new when we bought it and things break...over and over. At least once a year, we sink probably $2-$3K into the house. It's the nature of the beast.

BTW, my husband is a pilot also. He is never home when anything breaks. It's a running joke at this point.

[thyme4change]

The best thing to do now is start calling around and finding a contractor who can come in and check some stuff out. She should ask every person she has ever met if they have someone they like. She might want to get 5 or 6 people out. Even if she has someone do one job, and then if they do a good job, they can come back and do some other stuff. She needs to find someone she trusts.

[zibazinski]

NEVER EVER use the inspector a Realtor recommends. They find someone who will overlook a lot of things to make the deal go through!!! Yikes, they never come to this forum but they will wish they had. Believe me, the inspector has forms that they signed without reading that TOTALLY cover his butt about this. You can bet the Realtor knew but looked the other way for the commission and because it was her "friends."

[tskeeter]

All of the inspector contracts we've had on home purchases (six) have limited the inspector's liability to the amount of the inspection fee. If people want to sue, they should go after the seller. However, a look at MtShasta's comments about her experience suing a seller is worth while. Shasta's bottom line; she got a settlement, but it was just enough to cover her legal fees. Net gain - zero; and a lot of aggravation to boot. I think Shasta would agree that she didn't come out ahead when all was said and done.

I think many buyers expect too much of a home inspection. Some people tend to view an inspection as a guarantee that there is nothing wrong with the house, and that nothing will go wrong with the house for a foreseeable period of time. It just ain't so. My view is that an inspector will find things that I wouldn't have found on my own, but there will be things that they might miss, or a fact situation that they might mis-interpret, or things that are beyond the scope of the strictly visual inspection that is the scope of most home purchase inspections.

My suggestion is to fix what needs to be fixed and move on. If you don't fix it, in many states you, as the seller, will be required to disclose to potential buyers all of the problems that you are aware of. Why take the risk that the next buyer will pursue litigation even if it is not the good financial decision.

[Angel!]

Did they happen to purchase a home-buyers warranty? I have always had the seller pay for one of these when I have bought a house. We had quite a few issues with the first 2 houses & much of those were covered. She may want to look into purchasing one, but I don't know how they work if you already live there or have already discovered problems.

[tskeeter]

Some home buyers seem to think that a home must meet the current building code at the time it is sold. This is not true. The home must meet the building code that was in effect at the time it was built. This means that most homes more than a couple of years old do not comply with the current building codes.

I wonder if the home that the OP's friends bought was built at a time when the building code in that town did not prohibit installation of an appliance outlet below a water line (Existing construction is usually grandfathered and accepted as "in compliance" until other work is being done. When other work is being done, the city may (or may not) require that existing conditions be brought in to compliance with current codes.).

The inspector may not have pointed out the proximity of water line and dryer outlet for any one of several reasons. It may not be against the current code in that town (codes do vary from city to city). The installation was consistent with the code requirements at the time the installation was done and that type of installation is common in homes of that vintage. Or, the inspector simply screwed up and did not point out a deficiency that they should have identified.

[hoops902]

Mar 25, 2011 17:35:24 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Some home buyers seem to think that a home must meet the current building code at the time it is sold. This is not true. The home must meet the building code that was in effect at the time it was built. This means that most homes more than a couple of years old do not comply with the current building codes.

I wonder if the home that the OP's friends bought was built at a time when the building code in that town did not prohibit installation of an appliance outlet below a water line (Existing construction is usually grandfathered and accepted as "in compliance" until other work is being done. When other work is being done, the city may (or may not) require that existing conditions be brought in to compliance with current codes.).

The inspector may not have pointed out the proximity of water line and dryer outlet for any one of several reasons. It may not be against the current code in that town (codes do vary from city to city). The installation was consistent with the code requirements at the time the installation was done and that type of installation is common in homes of that vintage. Or, the inspector simply screwed up and did not point out a deficiency that they should have identified.

Regardless of whether the particular work gets grandfathered in and is therefore legal, any decent inspector should be pointing out things that are visible which are against current code. They're against current code for a reason. His concern is not whether the work was grandfathered in or not.

[zibazinski]

I have never bought a home that did not have to be brought up to code before the sale went through. A smart home buyer goes along with the inspector because without your presence, they will do a cursory job and call it good. DF spent over 4 hours with the home inspector and made him go into the attic and on the roof. Inspector would have done neither and only did it begrudgingly. Guess what? There's a roof issue. Small now but would have become bigger and more expensive.

[Deleted]

Mar 25, 2011 17:47:04 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I have never bought a home that did not have to be brought up to code before the sale went through. .

That hasn't been my experience. I am sure my house is out of code all over the place.

[oreo]

I'd call the Realtor and let them know if you haven't already. They might offer to cover at least a little of the costs. When we bought our house it came with the washer and dryer and the first time I went to use the dryer it didn't work. I was kind of mad because they must have obviously known it didn't work, it would be a huge coincidence if it worked fine the last time they used it and literally the first time I used it it didn't work. I called the Realtor (there were other issues too) just to complain (or maybe he called me to see how things were going and I complained?) and he paid to have it fixed. They make a lot of money on these transactions and if you are unhappy and rant about him to your friends, that won't make him money in the future! They don't have any legal obligation to do it but they might offer something.

[sesfw]

We used an inspector the realtor recommended and totally got took. We were out of state and put trust in the wrong people. The realtor was planning a move out of state and just wanted the deal to go through.

A couple of the very obvious things. A door wall had lost it's 'gas' and was clouded; the pedestrian door frame from the garage had dry rot; a bathroom hot water faucet leaked; the kitchen sink water filter was broken and leaked. I was furious when we found these things, and I told the realtor we paid too much money for a fixer upper. She never did come by to welcome us to the area, she just moved in a hurry.

The seller did buy a home repair insurance but each time we called it was a $41 co-pay, and the only thing they covered was a broken handle on the microwave.

[schildi]

This may not help much now, but it is why I buy pretty much everything new, including the house.

[rileyoday]

Check the sellers disclosure of known defects. You should have a copy in your closing papers. If the basement regularly floods and it was not disclosed you may have recourse.

You will have nothing coming from the Realtor. Your recourse is with the seller.

Hope you work something out.

[sheilaincali]

Thank you all for your advice, suggestions and comments. I will ask her to review the disclosure of known defects and to see if she purchased any sort of warranty.

The house was built in the 1980's so I know building codes have changed but I still think the inspector should have pointed out some of the things that are no longer within normal building code.

I just feel bad for my friend. We all encourage them to buy their first house and it's been nothing but a money pit since only a few days after moving in to the darn thing.

She did call the Realtor and told him what was going on and his response was "So what do you expect me to do? it's not my fault"

[Deleted]

Mar 25, 2011 17:10:00 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

All of the inspector contracts we've had on home purchases (six) have limited the inspector's liability to the amount of the inspection fee.

That's typical, and it's worth going after the inspector to get the fee refunded. The next stop might be the sellers if they lied on the disclosure forms.

I bought a house where, in response to the question on water leakage, they said that if you didn't keep the gutters clean "a little" water might come in during heavy rainstorms. I was mopping water off the basement floor every time it rained the last 2 years in the house despite regular gutter cleanings, but their weasel words got them off the hook. The next house I bought, I got an inspector from on-line recommendations and not the realtor. I told him to look for signs of water damage in the basement, having just spent $7,000 to get the problem in my current house fixed. He found water damage in one house and a mold inspection turned up stachybotris- the nasty stuff. The sellers had lied and said no water problems. Busted! They had to disclose the problems to future potential buyers after our inspectors found them.

[olderburgher]

A couple of the very obvious things. A door wall had lost it's 'gas' and was clouded; the pedestrian door frame from the garage had dry rot; a bathroom hot water faucet leaked; the kitchen sink water filter was broken and leaked. I was furious when we found these things, and I told the realtor we paid too much money for a fixer upper. She never did come by to welcome us to the area, she just moved in a hurry.

Are you kidding? This is such minor stuff that Patstab is 100% right. If the roof fell off , the furnace would not work, water runs across the floor in every rain, walls are bowed, etc. then you have some issues but this is too little to even waste space here where so much space is wasted. As to code and older homes, if it was up to code when it was built it is up to code. Buyers who don/t realize that building codes change and expect older homes to meet modern codes are ....( fill in the blank.)

[zibazinski]

Well, it's too late for them to do anything at this point but to fix the issues. Obviously neither of you went to the inspection so that was mistake number 2. Number 1 was using ANYONE the Realtor recommended. But THEIR response is not a good one and I'd be calling their broker. Reputations are everything in this market.

[sesfw]

'Your serious? Those things are so minor I wouldn't even worry about it.'

When you spend $500K for the home you expect the inspector to catch these things and give you the choice of backing out of the deal or considerably lowering the price. We also found scorpions in the house, and the listing mentioned 'a few' scorpions found in the yard. Those I got rid of with a vacuum and a pest control company. The leaking bathroom sink will take a total remodel to repair it correctly. The faucet is a through-wall type and the wall is tile.

Next home will be new, and I will become a micro-manager. LOL

[TD2K]

A door wall had lost it's 'gas' and was clouded; the pedestrian door frame from the garage had dry rot; a bathroom hot water faucet leaked; the kitchen sink water filter was broken and leaked. I was furious when we found these things,

What do you mean a wall had lost its gas?

I agree with the others, if this was all that was wrong with the house, good for you.

[Apple]

TD--I'm guessing it was a typo and should have said the "window" lost it's gas--double paned and the seal leaked.

[servant_of_dog]

"What do you mean a wall had lost its gas?"

I found out what a "doorwall" is on one of 19Bud74's home improvement question threads back on the previous YM: it's the sliding glass door to the outdoors.
Bud had a doorwall to "nowhere", if I remember correctly, and wanted to at least add steps down to the lawn, but probably a patio...

Sheila, I hope your friends get through the initial disappointments of their new home. sending karma to them through you.

[sheilaincali]

Servant of Dog- Thanks. She is calmer now. She did email the inspector and he tried to blow her off but she is going to push the issue with him some. There were some pretty obvious (but somewhat minor) things that he blatantly missed.

The previous owners disclosed that they had experienced some "Minor seepage 2 springs ago" and that's all they said.

My DH has encouraged her to complain to the broker and see if she gets any answers. At this point she isn't really expecting any financial reimbursement but she does feel she was deceived by the sellers, their friend the Realtor, and his friend the inspector.

[zibazinski]

It's terrible and sad to have your first home turn out this way. It shouldn't have happened. Sadder but wiser friends now.