Confed. Monuments Testify To The Union's Unfinished Victory

[Tennesseer]

Confederate monuments testify to the Union's unfinished victory

President Trump was back on Twitter today, writing that it’s “sad” to see so many Confederate statues and monuments removed from prominent public spaces and cast into the historical dustbin. “The beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns and parks will be greatly missed,” the president lamented.

His tweets — coming on the heels of his insistence that “many sides” were to blame for the violence in Charlottesville — are pouring kerosene on a controversy that’s centuries in the making. Trump’s incendiary comments on the bloody clashes in Charlottesville, and for that matter even his election, were possible only because the North’s victory in the Civil War was incomplete, and the achievements of the 1960s-era civil rights movement remain circumscribed.

Both the Civil War and the civil rights movement are justifiably seen as progressive breakthroughs. They were revolutions resulting in the end of slavery and, later, the abolition of Jim Crow across the United States. But the very existence of the Confederate statues that Trump is now defending, and the white-supremacist-fueled violence in Charlottesville last weekend, also underscore what wasn’t achieved in those earlier victories, and the limits of these revolutions.

It is remarkable that scores of monuments and statues to the Confederacy, the losing side in the Civil War, were even erected in the first place. Consider that these symbols of a regime founded to defend slavery occupy hallowed public grounds — city parks, town squares, statehouses and courthouses.

Complete article here: Confederate monuments testify to the Union's unfinished victory

[Value Buy]

I think it was more of a "let them have this small slice of cake and keep them happy on the Plantation" thing.
It was the equivalent of "look at this shiny thing over here and not pay attention to the fact you got your ass kicked, and we do not want a re-flaming of the secession by you."
Plus many in the north were not exactly happy with believing blacks were their equals, and if it kept the white folks complacent while we carpetbagged them, it was a win win..

[Artemis Windsong]

H. had a post on FB that all of the Confederate soldiers were decreed to be patriots/veterans of the U.S. military units.  The statues represent American patriots.

The Federalist Papers -U. S. Public Law 85-425. Section 410 approved 23 May 1958 and U.S. Public Law 810, 17th Congress, erect headstones and recognize Confederate graves as U.S. Veterans.

[Artemis Windsong]

I was not a slave owner and they were not slaves.  The Muslims were and still are slavers.

[happyhoix]

Most of the confederate monuments erected in the South were put up in the 1920-and 30's when the white ruling class wanted to remind the blacks that the white were still and would always be the ones in charge.

Last night on TV they were talking about some statues put up in Lexington KY on the square where they used to hold slave auctions. If that's not symbolic, I don't know what is.

I don't think Trump cares about the 'beauty' being lost in the parks - as they mentioned on SNL last night, if he could purchase the land, knock down the statue and put a shabby condo building on it, he would. Someone has told him that his base loves him being bellicose (plus he can't admit to being wrong) so he keeps pushing this narrative.

Personally, I think these statues should be moved off public land into privately funded Civil War memorial parks. For the real history, I go to the national battle fields like Chickamauga, where both sides have monuments not to the leaders but to all the men, on both sides, who lost their lives.  Much more fitting and beautiful.

 

[billisonboard]

Aug 18, 2017 10:55:07 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

... where both sides have monuments not to the leaders but to all the men, on both sides, who lost their lives.  Much more fitting and beautiful.

That is the beauty of the Vietnam Memorial, a tribute not to the war nor the generals but to those who lost their lives.

That is why any talk of it coming down is absurd.

[Tennesseer]

Beautiful picture.  

[kadee79]

Aug 18, 2017 10:11:43 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Aug 18, 2017 10:01:38 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

I was not a slave owner and they were not slaves.  The Muslims were and still are slavers.

Most Muslims are NOT "slavers".
Some Christians are "slavers".

Darn it, why is the world so complicated?

Depends on your definition of "slaver"....are their women free?...can they do as they please within reason?, can they marry whom they wish to?, can they drive a vehicle?, etc., etc., etc.!
In many, many cases, the male Muslims feel that they "own" the women in their families!!!

[Deleted]

We have also been instrumental in some cases in making certain women less free. As we continue to fight for our own even footing.

[Phoenix84]

I think this whole thing is beyond ridiculous.

The civil war is over, it was resolved, there's no reason to fight over it again. Why people want to pick at the age old wound is beyond me. These statues have been up for decades and it never furrowed even the most liberal brow until recently.

It's important not to blow Charlottesville out of proportion. There were what, a thousand people at most for both the protesters and counter protesters?  That's what percentage of the country?

Most people just want to be left alone and live in peace. It's most unfortunate that violence erupted, and people were hurt or killed, but at the end of the day, the country has moved on from the civil war for over 100 years.  Let's leave it buried in the past where it belongs.   

Slavery is gone, Jim crow is gone, and we're a better country for it. Hell, both were gone before I was even born. There has to be a time where we move on.

[billisonboard]

Aug 18, 2017 12:34:08 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I think this whole thing is beyond ridiculous. ...

I agree. AND - I am a white male born and raised in Idaho. I have spent most of my adult life in Washington State. I spent 4 months when I was 17/18 in Meridian Mississippi doing some military training. I spent 1 week and then 4 weeks in New Orleans for other Naval training when I was in my twenties. Other than a few days of vacation, I have spent no time in the South or on the East Coast even. Considering how far removed I am from personal involvement in this whole thing, I don't think I have a basis for being part of the conversation.

[NastyWoman]

Aug 18, 2017 11:53:46 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Aug 18, 2017 10:11:43 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Most Muslims are NOT "slavers".
Some Christians are "slavers".

Darn it, why is the world so complicated?

Depends on your definition of "slaver"....are their women free?...can they do as they please within reason?, can they marry whom they wish to?, can they drive a vehicle?, etc., etc., etc.!
In many, many cases, the male Muslims feel that they "own" the women in their families!!!

I would posit that these questions need be asked from Andrew Anglin and his pals (you know the one with those red caps making America...) based on his comments on the death of Heather Heyer at the hands of one of his pals:

"This is from the neo-Nazi "Daily Stormer" and is their justification of the Charlottesville murder.

"She was Fat and a Drain on Society. Despite feigned outrage by the media, most people are glad she is dead, as she is the definition of uselessness. A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value.
Due to female privilege, and the fact that they do virtually nothing their entire lives, women live an average of 5 years longer than men. The average female lifespan is 81 years. That means for 49 more years, this fat slob would have been leeching off of men’s work.
Childless women are black hole vortexes of public money and energy.
Had she not died yesterday, hundreds of thousands of dollars would have been spent on propping-up this gross creature who had failed to do her most basic duty – her only real duty, in fact – and reproduce.
Having no children at that age, it can be assumed that she had multiple abortions, and was thus herself a child murderer."

Daily Stormer

We can't do anthing about what other people do in their own society, but before we attack them we should really look at ourselves.  You know that whole glass house and throwing stones thing... 

 

[happyhoix]

So, I'm curious - what about the women who had babies but they turned out to be the skin headed, racist chinless turds like the Daily Stormer readers?

I would rate those even lower in society that the fat childless women.

(Frankly, I was surprised that you copied over a written document from that website, I always imagined those people could only communicate by grunts and by throwing poop. Imagine my surprise that they can read and write - not well, but at least on a second grade level).

[NastyWoman]

Aug 18, 2017 14:29:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

So, I'm curious - what about the women who had babies but they turned out to be the skin headed, racist chinless turds like the Daily Stormer readers?

I would rate those even lower in society that the fat childless women.

(Frankly, I was surprised that you copied over a written document from that website, I always imagined those people could only communicate by grunts and by throwing poop. Imagine my surprise that they can read and write - not well, but at least on a second grade level).

I didn't → copy from that website that is. I copied it from the "name and shame" thread where it was posted with a link in that response (#14). My comment on that thread was limited to how I thought this statement reflected on the person's respect for his own mother...

[happyhoix]

Aug 18, 2017 14:55:51 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Aug 18, 2017 14:29:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

So, I'm curious - what about the women who had babies but they turned out to be the skin headed, racist chinless turds like the Daily Stormer readers?

I would rate those even lower in society that the fat childless women.

(Frankly, I was surprised that you copied over a written document from that website, I always imagined those people could only communicate by grunts and by throwing poop. Imagine my surprise that they can read and write - not well, but at least on a second grade level).

I didn't → copy from that website that is. I copied it from the "name and shame" thread where it was posted with a link in that response (#14). My comment on that thread was limited to how I thought this statement reflected on the person's respect for his own mother...

Oh, well, if I was brave enough to go to the Storm Front website myself I could verify if they can read and write, I guess, but I'm scared to go over there. Not that they could hurt me, but don't want to get on some list of people who frequent that kind of website!

[NastyWoman]

Aug 18, 2017 15:02:00 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Aug 18, 2017 14:55:51 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I didn't → copy from that website that is. I copied it from the "name and shame" thread where it was posted with a link in that response (#14). My comment on that thread was limited to how I thought this statement reflected on the person's respect for his own mother...

Oh, well, if I was brave enough to go to the Storm Front website myself I could verify if they can read and write, I guess, but I'm scared to go over there. Not that they could hurt me, but don't want to get on some list of people who frequent that kind of website!