Rukh O'Rorke
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
Posts: 10,018 
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Aug 17, 2017 19:30:01 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,355 
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 17, 2017 20:01:44 GMT -5
Nicely said.
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Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 17, 2017 20:26:46 GMT -5
ibid.: Through our upbringing and education, we have learned much about Stonewall Jackson. We have learned about his reluctance to fight and his teaching of Sunday School to enslaved peoples in Lexington, Virginia, a potentially criminal activity at the time. We have learned how thoughtful and loving he was toward his family. But we cannot ignore his decision to own slaves, his decision to go to war for the Confederacy, and, ultimately, the fact that he was a white man fighting on the side of white supremacy.
While we are not ashamed of our great-great-grandfather, we are ashamed to benefit from white supremacy while our black family and friends suffer. We are ashamed of the monument. They sound like pathetic, self-loathing twits. |
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Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 18, 2017 8:01:26 GMT -5
I don't think they have any more moral or legal right to make an argument one way or another than anyone else.
The only one who might have a case is Stonewall Jackson himself, but he's dead. |
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movingforward
Junior Associate
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Post by movingforward on Aug 18, 2017 8:10:11 GMT -5
Well, I certainly don't think they sound like pathetic self-loathing twits  . Seriously...whatever... As for the removal of the statue, I would like to see things like this voted on by the state. If the majority of the state wants to keep this statue then fine. Personally, I don't see the point of keeping it but if the majority of people in VA want it there then so be it... |
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Phoenix84
Senior Associate
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 18, 2017 9:07:19 GMT -5
Well, I certainly don't think they sound like pathetic self-loathing twits . Seriously...whatever... As for the removal of the statue, I would like to see things like this voted on by the state. If the majority of the state wants to keep this statue then fine. Personally, I don't see the point of keeping it but if the majority of people in VA want it there then so be it... Yes, I think it should be put to a vote by the local community.
That way we can't say we're destroying historical monuments because a vocal minority was offended, many who may not even live there.
The argument against these statues is that (supposedly) it's offensive to see for the people who live there and have to walk by it all the time. Well, I say put it to a vote to the people actually DO have to walk by them all the time and see what they want. If they want it gone then it should go. If not, they shouldn't be pressured by national, professional protesters to remove them. Either way, the matter would be settled in what I think is a fair manner.
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steff
Senior Associate
I'll sleep when I'm dead
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Post by steff on Aug 18, 2017 10:38:46 GMT -5
So at first it was let the states/cities decide. Now we're going to move the goal posts & say it has to be voted on by the people. Can't keep moving the goal posts until you get the result you approve of.
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Artemis Windsong
Senior Associate
The love in me salutes the love in you. M. Williamson
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:32:12 GMT -5
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Today's Mood: Twinkling
Location: Wishing Star
Favorite Drink: Fresh, clean cold bottled water.
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Aug 18, 2017 10:56:12 GMT -5
The Federalist Papers -U. S. Public Law 85-425. Section 410 approved 23 May 1958 and U.S. Public Law 810, 17th Congress, erect headstones and recognize Confederate graves as U.S. Veterans.
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Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 18, 2017 12:20:35 GMT -5
So at first it was let the states/cities decide. Now we're going to move the goal posts & say it has to be voted on by the people. Can't keep moving the goal posts until you get the result you approve of. It's the same thing Steff. The point is it's up to the local communities. If they want to do a ballot provision then fine, if they want to petition their elected officials to do it then that's fine too. The people and their elected officials are two sides of the same coin.
I'm not a liberal, I don't believe in centralized, national planning telling everyone how to do things. The whole point is that it should be a local decision. Maybe you're used to telling society specifically how it should change to please you, but that's not my style. Personally I don't have the hubris for it, but the same can't be said for everyone unfortunately.
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steff
Senior Associate
I'll sleep when I'm dead
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 17:34:24 GMT -5
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Post by steff on Aug 18, 2017 12:27:12 GMT -5
and it is being handled on a local level. Local govts are making the decisions to remove the statues. No Federal agency is calling for it.
I've read up on how & why New Orleans removed theirs. I've read up on how Houston's Mayor is going to go statue by statue to make the decision on which ones stay & which ones go. Houston stands out to me for 2 reasons. #1 It's my home town. #2 the statues are in Emancipation Park. Until the 1970's blacks weren't allowed into the park. That's says it all about why they were put up IMO.
Mayor Turner has stated that the Sam Houston statue is staying. He's the father of Texas & he voted AGAINST leaving the Union. But yes, he was a slave owner. The "Angel of the Confederacy" statue is coming down tho.
It IS being handled on a local level by local govts. And it's been going on far longer than this past week.
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