Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 16, 2017 12:38:04 GMT -5
in the dark of the night. It had been planned for awhile but the Mayor and city council President decided to move up the time table. Originally I was going to make a statement to the effect this is similar to the Taliban in Afghanistan, but I actually like the actual article. The Mayor wants to replace the statues with plaques, explaining what was there, and why they were removed. I am very good with this. It is not re-writing out history. It explains the past history and our present history. Good to do! www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/crews-remove-baltimores-confederate-statues-overnight/ar-AAqaPZy?li=BBnbfcL
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 16, 2017 15:44:01 GMT -5
Stop with the re-writing history... that has to be the LAMEST excuse I have ever heard.
Why don't you just go for the truth... that what you fear most is that YOU and YOUR views and YOUR ideals will become dusty, outdated, curiousities visited by future generations in boring history classes. Your not worried about the past being re-written. YOU are worried about your FUTURE.
Why do you keep hiding behind euphemisms? Why do you keep speaking in 'code'? Why?
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steff
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Post by steff on Aug 16, 2017 16:09:28 GMT -5
History isn't changed because there isn't a statue. Like I just told Shooby, we've debunked this talking point in another thread.
No one has forgotten what Hitler did because there isn't a statue to him. Same with Stalin & Lenin. Everyone cheered when Saddam statues were brought down & no one has forgotten why.
History doesn't change over a statue. It isn't erased. And claiming history for some of these statues doesn't work based on when they were erected. A statue of a Confederate General erected in the 1950's isn't about honoring him, it's about intimidation. That was explained when the statues came down in New Orleans.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 16, 2017 17:03:09 GMT -5
I would be perfectly okay with all Confederate statues of their military members remaining as long as there was a detailed plaque about the person in question, including they wanted to preserve slavery in their home states and for all the South along with they were treasonous in their seceding from the United States.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 17:06:34 GMT -5
And I get to dress them with twinkle lights for Christmas and fishnets for pride...
(Actually I'd rather they come down or be put in a museum/dedicated history grove.)
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 16, 2017 22:51:00 GMT -5
Stop with the re-writing history... that has to be the LAMEST excuse I have ever heard.
Why don't you just go for the truth... that what you fear most is that YOU and YOUR views and YOUR ideals will become dusty, outdated, curiousities visited by future generations in boring history classes. Your not worried about the past being re-written. YOU are worried about your FUTURE.
Why do you keep hiding behind euphemisms? Why do you keep speaking in 'code'? Why?
Re-writing history? Damn. The people who are taking the statues down are re-writing history. I stated I thought it was a great idea to place plaques at the spot to explain why they were removed. Makes perfect sense to me. Please explain my "code". Everyone want to cry racism when anyone want to discuss things. Racism is the new McCarthyism of the new century.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 4:30:23 GMT -5
Real history is that most of the statues went up in response to or tandem with Plessy v Fergesson, Jim Crow and the civil rights movement... NOT as some civil war monument, but as intimidation tools.
They belong in the context of a civil war memorial, not public parks and government buildings.
No one re writes history by removing a statue. They just acknowledge that not all history deserves a pedistal.
Lee himself would never have supported his statues... THAT is the truth of history.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 17, 2017 9:21:57 GMT -5
Stop with the re-writing history... that has to be the LAMEST excuse I have ever heard.
Why don't you just go for the truth... that what you fear most is that YOU and YOUR views and YOUR ideals will become dusty, outdated, curiousities visited by future generations in boring history classes. Your not worried about the past being re-written. YOU are worried about your FUTURE.
Why do you keep hiding behind euphemisms? Why do you keep speaking in 'code'? Why?
Re-writing history? Damn. The people who are taking the statues down are re-writing history. I stated I thought it was a great idea to place plaques at the spot to explain why they were removed. Makes perfect sense to me. Please explain my "code". Everyone want to cry racism when anyone want to discuss things. Racism is the new McCarthyism of the new century. If a statue is removed and relocated to a museum, how is that rewriting history?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 17, 2017 9:37:32 GMT -5
Re-writing history? Damn. The people who are taking the statues down are re-writing history. I stated I thought it was a great idea to place plaques at the spot to explain why they were removed. Makes perfect sense to me. Please explain my "code". Everyone want to cry racism when anyone want to discuss things. Racism is the new McCarthyism of the new century. If a statue is removed and relocated to a museum, how is that rewriting history? You are a smart person. You know the truth. The museums are the next step in erasing any mention of the word of slavery. Cory Booker has already announced he is introducing legislation to remove all Confederate statues in Congress. Granted this is not a museum, although it sure looks like it to the American public these days because nothing happens there, but pontification.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 17, 2017 9:42:00 GMT -5
A Chicago clergyman is now asking Washington Park in Chicago to be renamed because Washington was a slave owner. No confederate statue involved. I guess being one of the most influential people in out nation's struggle for freedom means nothing.
First they came for the statues Then they came for the parks. Then they came for renaming the streets.
I think we see a correlation here about dictatorships and Nazism criticism posted by members here in past threads
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 17, 2017 9:43:47 GMT -5
Where are the statues of Hitler? Has anyone re-written history of WWII?
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steff
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Post by steff on Aug 17, 2017 9:54:10 GMT -5
Should there be a statue of Bin Laden erected at the 9/11 site so we don't forget history?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 17, 2017 9:55:46 GMT -5
Should there be a statue of Bin Laden erected at the 9/11 site so we don't forget history? As long there is a statue of several Navy Seals depicting his killing, I would be good with that.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 17, 2017 10:14:36 GMT -5
If a statue is removed and relocated to a museum, how is that rewriting history? You are a smart person. You know the truth. The museums are the next step in erasing any mention of the word of slavery. Cory Booker has already announced he is introducing legislation to remove all Confederate statues in Congress. Granted this is not a museum, although it sure looks like it to the American public these days because nothing happens there, but pontification. What I do know is that no outdoor plaque below a Confederate monument honoring a military or other important member of the confederacy will ever be big enough to explain the life events and the treasonous actions of the honoree's defense of the South. A museum would have a better chance of explaining it all with a video presentation of the individual. That I know for sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 10:15:33 GMT -5
Where are the statues of Hitler? Has anyone re-written history of WWII? Just the nazis.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 17, 2017 10:17:00 GMT -5
You are a smart person. You know the truth. The museums are the next step in erasing any mention of the word of slavery. Cory Booker has already announced he is introducing legislation to remove all Confederate statues in Congress. Granted this is not a museum, although it sure looks like it to the American public these days because nothing happens there, but pontification. What I do know is that no outdoor plaque below a Confederate monument honoring a military or other important member of the confederacy will ever be big enough to explain the life events and the treasonous actions of the honoree's defense of the South. A museum would have a better chance of explaining it all with a video presentation of the individual. That I know for sure. I hope you are correct. I am not that positive it will happen that way.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 17, 2017 10:31:39 GMT -5
Where are the statues of Hitler? Has anyone re-written history of WWII? Sean Spicer Did! Holocost centers No chemical weapons Etc.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 17, 2017 10:52:42 GMT -5
Should there be a statue of Bin Laden erected at the 9/11 site so we don't forget history? As long there is a statue of several Navy Seals depicting his killing, I would be good with that. I wouldn't and I'm pretty sure that none of the 9/11 families would be good with it either
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 17, 2017 13:33:50 GMT -5
Regarding the removal of Confederate monuments, I'd ultimately leave it up to the locals and their representatives if it should be done or not.
On one hand, removing confederate monuments seems akin to book burning, trying to erase or revise history. And it's been said that those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it. Having the monuments up gives a good opportunity for discussions about the past and how we've changed as a country.
On the other hand, I don't have any particular love of the statues. I was born and raised in the north and never identified as a southerner. So the statues themselves have no meaning to me. So I won't shed any tears or consternation over their removal.
As I said, I'd as soon leave it up to the citizens and their elected representatives as to what to do with them.
Vandalism is wrong though. Anyone who unlawfully vandalizes a public statue should be charged to the full extent of the law. If you are opposed to the monuments, there are proper channels to remove them. Vandalism is not one of them.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 17, 2017 13:43:54 GMT -5
Regarding the removal of Confederate monuments, I'd ultimately leave it up to the locals and their representatives if it should be done or not.
On one hand, removing confederate monuments seems akin to book burning, trying to erase or revise history. And it's been said that those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it. Having the monuments up gives a good opportunity for discussions about the past and how we've changed as a country.
On the other hand, I don't have any particular love of the statues. I was born and raised in the north and never identified as a southerner. So the statues themselves have no meaning to me. So I won't shed any tears or consternation over their removal.
As I said, I'd as soon leave it up to the citizens and their elected representatives as to what to do with them.
Vandalism is wrong though. Anyone who unlawfully vandalizes a public statue should be charged to the full extent of the law. If you are opposed to the monuments, there are proper channels to remove them. Vandalism is not one of them. Was part of removing the statues to buy all new history books and change the curriculum in schools? Because my kids have never seen any of these statues and they have more knowledge of slavery and the civil war than I do.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 17, 2017 13:55:14 GMT -5
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 17, 2017 14:03:33 GMT -5
Regarding the removal of Confederate monuments, I'd ultimately leave it up to the locals and their representatives if it should be done or not.
On one hand, removing confederate monuments seems akin to book burning, trying to erase or revise history. And it's been said that those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it. Having the monuments up gives a good opportunity for discussions about the past and how we've changed as a country.
On the other hand, I don't have any particular love of the statues. I was born and raised in the north and never identified as a southerner. So the statues themselves have no meaning to me. So I won't shed any tears or consternation over their removal.
As I said, I'd as soon leave it up to the citizens and their elected representatives as to what to do with them.
Vandalism is wrong though. Anyone who unlawfully vandalizes a public statue should be charged to the full extent of the law. If you are opposed to the monuments, there are proper channels to remove them. Vandalism is not one of them. Ummm, no, LOL, it's really not I was born in the city that is over 1500 yrs old. So, before 1917, it had statues and street names that reflected all the czars and various religious symbols. Then, in 1917 Lenin came to power and everything was changed to represent what he stood for - no G-d, no religion, no czars. Now, 100 yrs later it's being changed back bc religion is allowed again and everything that was remotely socialism/communism related is gone. BTW, while my city has remained it's name, some have not. Peterburg was named Leningrad and now back to Peterburg (I think). It's like when you buy a house - you wash off the paint from the old owners and put on your own.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 17, 2017 16:28:42 GMT -5
I have been pondering the following:
The North won the Civil War. What would have been the reaction of the southern states if the north had peppered monuments and statues throughout the south of Union generals such as Ulysses S. Grant, General William Tecumseh Sherman, George Meade, etc. Would citizens of the southern states simply have let the monuments stay or would they wanted them removed over time.
I would imagine southerners would not like to be reminded they lost the Civil War to the Union troops and would be upset each time they came across a statue or monument dedicated to a northern military officer and forever reminded they lost the war.
The racial demographics of the city of Memphis are 63% black and 29% white. Many black citizens of Memphis are calling for the relocation of the Nathaniel Bedford Forrest statue and moved to Elmwood Cemetery here in Memphis (along with Forrest's and his wife's remains which were originally buried in in Elmwood Cemetery). The black citizens are also calling for the renaming of Nathaniel Bedford Forrest park to some neutral name. like Peace Park.
Many black citizens of Memphis feel only revulsion each time they see and are reminded it was a white southern military officers and many of its citizens who were fighting for the right of the south to continue to own black slaves (among a few other things), the ancestors of many of today's black citizens of Memphis.
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