Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 16, 2017 12:40:25 GMT -5
So...if a mean, hateful person challenges me to a fight at high noon behind Walmart and I don't show up because I'm not stupid enough to think this is a good idea, how does that fight turn out? Wait...there wasn't one.
But hey....let's keep doing it the way you all excuse so readily. Only one person died, right? Casualties of war and all that. Worked out well. Plus, the crazies got even more press. Success all around, I'd say.
People are going to do what they are going to do. I hope, in the end, it's all worth it. If it succeeds in making us all be a little nicer to one another, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong. If it makes us a little smarter the next time, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 16, 2017 12:41:01 GMT -5
Yes both sides are violent, but the biggest difference in all of this that so many people are failing to understand:
BLM/Antifa = fighting for equality KKK/Nazi = fighting for superiority
There is a HUGE difference in the two. It saddens me that so many cannot see this! It saddens me that so many on the left are ok with violence from any group. I also disagree that some of the fringe groups on the left don't want to take down where people. But that is neither here nor there. Unlike you, I'm not ok with violence from any group Where did I say I was okay with the violence ?
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 16, 2017 12:43:12 GMT -5
Ordinarily, i think hate groups should be just ignored. However, they're getting louder and louder. At some point, they need a smackdown, and I'm not sure how you do that other than counterprotesting them. But that is hard to do. My wife told me about a KKK march where the town people lined the street with there backs to the street. When the KKK stopped hiding and asked for permits to march they came ready for a fight and often get one. These towns don't want to give these permits to outsiders who come in to incite violence. IMO they can put restrictions on the permits and still be compliant with the Constitution. Definitely no guns, even in a open carry state like last weekend. I think Boston has said no signs or masks.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 12:46:55 GMT -5
It saddens me that so many on the left are ok with violence from any group. I also disagree that some of the fringe groups on the left don't want to take down where people. But that is neither here nor there. Unlike you, I'm not ok with violence from any group Where did I say I was okay with the violence ? Then I don't know why you said "there is a huge difference between the two"...violence is violence and is always wrong. You are saying it is ok for BLM/Antifa to be violent because you agree with their message. I don't care what the meaaagw is, violence is not the answer
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 12:50:43 GMT -5
Ordinarily, i think hate groups should be just ignored. However, they're getting louder and louder. At some point, they need a smackdown, and I'm not sure how you do that other than counterprotesting them. I think the government has sent a message that hate groups can destroy neighborhoods while the police stand down. So now the nazis want a crack at it. We need to stop all hate groups, all destruction , the minute it starts or else you have risings on all sides. Even on here posters are saying "well yeah, BLM and antics are violent but that's different"....no wonder everyone thinks it is a freaking free-for-all
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 12:58:08 GMT -5
Seriously? If blm showed up with torches armed like these guys they would be dead.
Which is, in short, the issue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 12:58:45 GMT -5
They think it's a freaking free for all because in their estimation the president just defended them.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 16, 2017 13:02:41 GMT -5
Ordinarily, i think hate groups should be just ignored. However, they're getting louder and louder. At some point, they need a smackdown, and I'm not sure how you do that other than counterprotesting them. I think the government has sent a message that hate groups can destroy neighborhoods while the police stand down. So now the nazis want a crack at it. We need to stop all hate groups, all destruction , the minute it starts or else you have risings on all sides. Even on here posters are saying "well yeah, BLM and antics are violent but that's different"....no wonder everyone thinks it is a freaking free-for-all BLM is not about violence. As usual, a few bad apples spoil the message. I do think that BLM rallied around some bad choices, but i get the point of their message. Think about Tamir Rice, he was a 12 year old kid. My DS is about that age. If he was in a public park with a fake gun, the cops wouldn't have shot him immediately upon getting out of the car.
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hurley1980
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I am all that is wrong with the world....don't get too close, I'm contagious.
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 16, 2017 13:02:51 GMT -5
Where did I say I was okay with the violence ? Then I don't know why you said "there is a huge difference between the two"...violence is violence and is always wrong. You are saying it is ok for BLM/Antifa to be violent because you agree with their message. I don't care what the meaaagw is, violence is not the answer Pointing out a difference in what the two sides are fighting for in no way equates to me supporting the violence on either side. That's a serious stretch there my friend....
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 16, 2017 13:04:27 GMT -5
Look at how the neo Nazis came, many armed, shields, masks and ready for battle. Look at how the protesters came, many in T shirts, shorts and athletic shoes. So don't tell me the neo Nazis just wanted a peaceful march.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 13:19:01 GMT -5
Look at how the neo Nazis came, many armed, shields, masks and ready for battle. Look at how the protesters came, many in T shirts, shorts and athletic shoes. So don't tell me the neo Nazis just wanted a peaceful march. and if everyone ignored them what would have happened? They would have marched and gone away. If someone is going to spew hatred at me, should I ignore it or fight back? It isn't always easy to ignore it and I get that (I am divorced after all...I've been told to ignore my ex's rankings but sometimes I fail...when I ignore him he goes away because he gets nothing out of it. When I lose my shit his bad behavior is rewarded by knowing that he got to me. Same difference here. I don't know why people don't see it. Police should be the ones handling violence caused by nazis, not other violent groups
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 13:21:13 GMT -5
No. You should not confront crazy, mean and/or unbalanced persons with weapons. That is the epitome of stupidity. If your plans are to go to a protest where you need to defend yourself with weapons, and you aren't in law enforcement, don't go. It's that simple. There are other ways to fight this craziness and most of them are along the lines of not giving them the attention they crave. This should have gone unnoticed - ignored - not given any credence whatsoever. They are going to gain absolutely nothing from these protests unless we give them what they are begging for - attention and press. Now someone is dead and they are all over the news. Just great. Now they can attract even more crazies. Both sides came to fight and they got what they wanted. Both sides are to blame.
I take these people and the damage they can do very seriously. When they hurt people and do damage, they need to be held accountable in a court of law. They have always been around and they are never going to go away. This isn't new. People like to pretend this is all because of the current administration and while I do believe these people may be emboldened right now - it still isn't new. We can fight them by living our every day lives caring about one another. Treating each other with respect. By not allowing the sins of the past and the crazies of the present tell us any different. As someone said, be the example of the change you want to see in others. That example shouldn't be coming to a protest armed and with the intent of hurting people.
Under "normal" circumstances I would agree with you, wholeheartedly. But this isn't anywhere near normal. This type of evil sees acquiescence as tacit approval, and it only grows when it is not challenged. Since the election of Trump these types have felt increasingly bold about coming out in the open and proclaiming proudly who they are. It is as though child molesters coalesced under NAMBLA and held a victory march through town celebrating molestation. If good people do not challenge these beliefs then they are somehow "normalized". As it is, I don't believe that young woman's death is in vain. This event has shown the harsh light of reality on what those people represent and just who they are. They are not action figures with cool guns and interesting costumes. They are evil goons and wannabe killers, torturers and rapists. They must be exposed for what they are. This week has been a wake up call to America. Will we heed the warning? Serious question...do you feel the same way about the riots and destruction caused by Antifa and other groups on the left? I sat by and watched those groups get away with a lot...police were told to stand down. Why wasn't that a wake up call to America?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 16, 2017 13:22:39 GMT -5
Look at how the neo Nazis came, many armed, shields, masks and ready for battle. Look at how the protesters came, many in T shirts, shorts and athletic shoes. So don't tell me the neo Nazis just wanted a peaceful march. and if everyone ignored them what would have happened? They would have marched and gone away. If someone is going to spew hatred at me, should I ignore it or fight back? It isn't always easy to ignore it and I get that (I am divorced after all...I've been told to ignore my ex's rankings but sometimes I fail...when I ignore him he goes away because he gets nothing out of it. When I lose my shit his bad behavior is rewarded by knowing that he got to me. Same difference here. I don't know why people don't see it. Police should be the ones handling violence caused by nazis, not other violent groups Generally i agree they should be ignored, but I would be very upset if they came to my community, my home, my place to profess their hate. I will defend to my death their right to spew hate, but not around me. I'm going to spew back. It's a tough call. They are very easy to ignore in VA, far away from me. They wouldn't be so easy to ignore if they were in my town. At some point, someone needs to tell them their views are asinine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 13:23:37 GMT -5
It's damn easy to ignore it. Nazis taught us that the first time. You ignore it right up until it impacts you, and hope there is someone still left who might not be ignoring.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 13:24:31 GMT -5
They stood outside a synagogue with such menace and intimidation that worshippers snuck out the back with their sacred books.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 16, 2017 13:24:37 GMT -5
Under "normal" circumstances I would agree with you, wholeheartedly. But this isn't anywhere near normal. This type of evil sees acquiescence as tacit approval, and it only grows when it is not challenged. Since the election of Trump these types have felt increasingly bold about coming out in the open and proclaiming proudly who they are. It is as though child molesters coalesced under NAMBLA and held a victory march through town celebrating molestation. If good people do not challenge these beliefs then they are somehow "normalized". As it is, I don't believe that young woman's death is in vain. This event has shown the harsh light of reality on what those people represent and just who they are. They are not action figures with cool guns and interesting costumes. They are evil goons and wannabe killers, torturers and rapists. They must be exposed for what they are. This week has been a wake up call to America. Will we heed the warning? Serious question...do you feel the same way about the riots and destruction caused by Antifa and other groups on the left? I sat by and watched those groups get away with a lot...police were told to stand down. Why wasn't that a wake up call to America? which groups? The one in Berkley with teh guys all dressed in black? Unacceptable. Peaceful BLM marches: Rock on, guys. The idiots at BLM who got violent: Unacceptable. What other groups? ETA: The women's marches? DC had like one arrest for 2 million people. That's lower than average for any group, protesting or not.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 16, 2017 13:27:33 GMT -5
Miss Tequila I've posted the same thing, but it's difficult for everyone to ignore. I would. Heck I've never gone to a protest and I was part of the 60's Vietnam era. College and even being drafted.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 16, 2017 13:28:51 GMT -5
I inadvertently ended up at a BLM protest in New Orleans. They walked, chanted, and held signs. No violence at all.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 16, 2017 13:30:58 GMT -5
That's called Mardi Gras.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 13:31:13 GMT -5
Why?
Because the Vice video of the neo nazi before... and the video of him today blubbering like a baby.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 16, 2017 13:31:57 GMT -5
They stood outside a synagogue with such menace and intimidation that worshippers snuck out the back with their sacred books. When they are chanting about subjugating the Jews, i can see why they would be a little nervous. I was raised CAtholic, and apparently the Nazi boneheads don't consider Catholics to be "real" Christians. If they showed up at my church to protest, you bet I'd fight back. I'm not hurting you by going here, go away you useless pieces of flesh.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 16, 2017 13:32:53 GMT -5
I inadvertently ended up at a BLM protest in New Orleans. They walked, chanted, and held signs. No violence at all. LOL, no, it was November, and a few days after election day. They were definitely BLM protesters. Their signs told me.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 13:44:35 GMT -5
Serious question...do you feel the same way about the riots and destruction caused by Antifa and other groups on the left? I sat by and watched those groups get away with a lot...police were told to stand down. Why wasn't that a wake up call to America? Serious answer- Yes. Violence and destruction should not be tolerated. That response is directly to your question posed in the first sentence. Regarding your second sentence- I don't know the circumstance- was it Ferguson? Thank you for answering. There were many times that riots broke out...from college campuses because they didn't like the conservative speaker to cities. I sat and watched news coverage and not a thing was done to stop it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 13:46:54 GMT -5
You are going to have to give specific examples.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 13:48:39 GMT -5
Serious question...do you feel the same way about the riots and destruction caused by Antifa and other groups on the left? I sat by and watched those groups get away with a lot...police were told to stand down. Why wasn't that a wake up call to America? which groups? The one in Berkley with teh guys all dressed in black? Unacceptable. Peaceful BLM marches: Rock on, guys. The idiots at BLM who got violent: Unacceptable. What other groups? ETA: The women's marches? DC had like one arrest for 2 million people. That's lower than average for any group, protesting or not. Then we agree. I just don't like the hypocrisy of making excuses for the groups that get violent because they have left leaning causes. I think all violent protests need to have the national guard swoop in and squash the protest. I wouldn't expect the woman's March to get violent. I do expect violence with the fringe groups on both sides
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 16, 2017 13:56:01 GMT -5
If you want to know how and why the alt right differs from other protest groups wander out to their channels on 4chan, 8chan and reddit. It won't take long to get the message. You won't find that much free-flowing hatred anywhere else.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 16, 2017 13:57:00 GMT -5
which groups? The one in Berkley with teh guys all dressed in black? Unacceptable. Peaceful BLM marches: Rock on, guys. The idiots at BLM who got violent: Unacceptable. What other groups? ETA: The women's marches? DC had like one arrest for 2 million people. That's lower than average for any group, protesting or not. Then we agree. I just don't like the hypocrisy of making excuses for the groups that get violent because they have left leaning causes. I think all violent protests need to have the national guard swoop in and squash the protest. I wouldn't expect the woman's March to get violent. I do expect violence with the fringe groups on both sides But i don't think the counter protesters in VA are fringe groups. The Nazis showed up with guns, shields, torches, etc. The counters, to me, looked like general suburban millenial schmoes. If these bozos showed up in my town, I'd be there too. I'm not about to travel to VA, but i will tell them in no uncertain terms they are not welcome at my home.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 13:58:18 GMT -5
Just saw this on Facebook.
"Someone committing an evil act for a good cause doesn't invalidate the good cause. The evil act has no place in the fight for a good cause, but it doesn't invalidate it. Likewise, someone protesting peacefully in favor of an evil cause doesn't add legitimacy to that evil cause."
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 16, 2017 14:03:06 GMT -5
No. You should not confront crazy, mean and/or unbalanced persons with weapons. That is the epitome of stupidity. If your plans are to go to a protest where you need to defend yourself with weapons, and you aren't in law enforcement, don't go. It's that simple. There are other ways to fight this craziness and most of them are along the lines of not giving them the attention they crave. This should have gone unnoticed - ignored - not given any credence whatsoever. They are going to gain absolutely nothing from these protests unless we give them what they are begging for - attention and press. Now someone is dead and they are all over the news. Just great. Now they can attract even more crazies. Both sides came to fight and they got what they wanted. Both sides are to blame.
I take these people and the damage they can do very seriously. When they hurt people and do damage, they need to be held accountable in a court of law. They have always been around and they are never going to go away. This isn't new. People like to pretend this is all because of the current administration and while I do believe these people may be emboldened right now - it still isn't new. We can fight them by living our every day lives caring about one another. Treating each other with respect. By not allowing the sins of the past and the crazies of the present tell us any different. As someone said, be the example of the change you want to see in others. That example shouldn't be coming to a protest armed and with the intent of hurting people.
Under "normal" circumstances I would agree with you, wholeheartedly. But this isn't anywhere near normal. This type of evil sees acquiescence as tacit approval, and it only grows when it is not challenged. Since the election of Trump these types have felt increasingly bold about coming out in the open and proclaiming proudly who they are. It is as though child molesters coalesced under NAMBLA and held a victory march through town celebrating molestation. If good people do not challenge these beliefs then they are somehow "normalized". As it is, I don't believe that young woman's death is in vain. This event has shown the harsh light of reality on what those people represent and just who they are. They are not action figures with cool guns and interesting costumes. They are evil goons and wannabe killers, torturers and rapists. They must be exposed for what they are. This week has been a wake up call to America. Will we heed the warning? I don't think that's true, demin. You are saying there are two choices - violence or acquiescence. I don't believe those are the only choices here. Good people can challenge these beliefs without coming armed to a protest and participating in a free for all.
I do agree when you say this event has shown the harsh light of reality on what those people represent - on both sides. Neither is pretty. It's a wake up call for sure. When violence like this is celebrated, there will be more of it. Much more. America has basically given the "ok" to beat the shit out of anyone you disagree with. In this particular case, it happens to be on the right side of morality or what you and I agree with. Next time it might not be. We don't get to cry about it then.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 16, 2017 14:04:49 GMT -5
Found on FB:
August 14 at 9:24am ·
From an actual resident of Charlottesville:
"There seems to be a perception from people outside of Charlottesville that what is going on here is two opposing groups coming to town and fighting some ideological battle that has gotten messy. That is not what is happening here. What is happening here is that several hate groups from the extreme right have come together under the "unite the right" banner here in our town and basically started acting as terrorists. This may seem like an exaggeration but it's not.
A church service was held over because they had surrounded the building and police had to disperse them. People had to be escorted to their cars. My friend was there with her daughter. Everywhere they meet, businesses close. We had drive by shootings yesterday from a van marked kkk.
A car plowed into a huge group of people. I'm sure you saw that on the newsfeeds. What you probably didn't see is that some of those people were on their way back from helping to repel a white supremacist march to predominately black housing development a few blocks away where they were attempting home invasions. I guess they were unfamiliar with the neighborhood. The residents repelled that one before antifa got there but there is some video of the alt-right folks getting run off on the daily progress twitter feed, if you're interested.
So, basically, what I'd like you to understand is, this IS NOT two side egging eachother on to unavoidable violence for more attention. This is one side of terrorists declaring that they can and will hold a town hostage (they've been saying it for over a month now, actually) and the town responding to that threat. The car that killed and injured people yesterday? Ohio tags. The medic tents (which treated both sides... turns out the alt right erst didn’t bring any medics. Guess they planned on doing all the injuring), water bottles, snacks, shade tents (all volunteer, donations, none shut down by police... all manned by that radical left you keep hearing about) yeah, we all live here. I saw a lot of people I knew yesterday, none of them were speaking for unite the right. None of them were escalating violence, most of them were offering some kind of aid and defending."
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