Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 16, 2017 7:59:18 GMT -5
Obama could have done a much better job in addressing the more radical fringes of the BLM movement.
Trump got elected partially because "he is not afraid to tell it like it is" and "he is not beholden to anyone" and he's not a politician." If he's such a straight shooting guy, why is it so hard for him to say "mmmm racism bad, mmmkay?"
But many people on this very board, the same people blasting trump, were the same people saying Obama handled it well. We can't have double standards I'm not a hypocrite so I think trump should call out all hate groups. I do think everyone that showed up looking to fight is to blame for what went down. Not the woman that was murdered, but for all of the violence. The liberals want to pretend that the radical left didn't show up looking for blood. They are not innocent in this. ETA: and before I again get accused of being racist, I think anyone spewing hatred is an awful human being. Difference is I'm not about to go counter-protest. The best way to deal with these radical fringe groups is to ignore then. Unless it turns violent then the police/national guard need to rush in and squash it. I feel that way regardless of what group of idiots is doing the protesting. You are exactly right. I've not seen people be in such a serious state of denial in a long time as they are over this horrific incident. Serious denial. Beating people and hurting people is not ok just because you agree with their side and BOTH sides were doing this. I highly doubt had some counter-protester killed a skinhead (or whatever you call those things) that we would have seen any sort of uproar at all. Killing and beating is fine as long as it's being done by your side. It's pitiful.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 16, 2017 8:10:42 GMT -5
Obama could have done a much better job in addressing the more radical fringes of the BLM movement.
Trump got elected partially because "he is not afraid to tell it like it is" and "he is not beholden to anyone" and he's not a politician." If he's such a straight shooting guy, why is it so hard for him to say "mmmm racism bad, mmmkay?"
But many people on this very board, the same people blasting trump, were the same people saying Obama handled it well. We can't have double standards I'm not a hypocrite so I think trump should call out all hate groups. I do think everyone that showed up looking to fight is to blame for what went down. Not the woman that was murdered, but for all of the violence. The liberals want to pretend that the radical left didn't show up looking for blood. They are not innocent in this.
ETA: and before I again get accused of being racist, I think anyone spewing hatred is an awful human being. Difference is I'm not about to go counter-protest. The best way to deal with these radical fringe groups is to ignore then. Unless it turns violent then the police/national guard need to rush in and squash it. I feel that way regardless of what group of idiots is doing the protesting. I think you should start adding the word some to your sentence pronouncements. This liberal posted on this message board that some of the counter protesters did come to beat up on the alt-right protesters.
Everyone is innocent of running down those people except the guy who did it.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 16, 2017 8:13:58 GMT -5
But many people on this very board, the same people blasting trump, were the same people saying Obama handled it well. We can't have double standards I'm not a hypocrite so I think trump should call out all hate groups. I do think everyone that showed up looking to fight is to blame for what went down. Not the woman that was murdered, but for all of the violence. The liberals want to pretend that the radical left didn't show up looking for blood. They are not innocent in this.
ETA: and before I again get accused of being racist, I think anyone spewing hatred is an awful human being. Difference is I'm not about to go counter-protest. The best way to deal with these radical fringe groups is to ignore then. Unless it turns violent then the police/national guard need to rush in and squash it. I feel that way regardless of what group of idiots is doing the protesting. I think you should start adding the word some to your sentence pronouncements. This liberal posted on this message board that some of the counter protesters did come to beat up on the alt-right protesters.
Everyone is innocent of running down those people except the guy who did it.
Opt4ft, Thank you!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 8:26:58 GMT -5
But many people on this very board, the same people blasting trump, were the same people saying Obama handled it well. We can't have double standards I'm not a hypocrite so I think trump should call out all hate groups. I do think everyone that showed up looking to fight is to blame for what went down. Not the woman that was murdered, but for all of the violence. The liberals want to pretend that the radical left didn't show up looking for blood. They are not innocent in this.
ETA: and before I again get accused of being racist, I think anyone spewing hatred is an awful human being. Difference is I'm not about to go counter-protest. The best way to deal with these radical fringe groups is to ignore then. Unless it turns violent then the police/national guard need to rush in and squash it. I feel that way regardless of what group of idiots is doing the protesting. I think you should start adding the word some to your sentence pronouncements. This liberal posted on this message board that some of the counter protesters did come to beat up on the alt-right protesters.
Everyone is innocent of running down those people except the guy who did it.
You are right. There are some smart liberals just like there are some smart conservatives.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 8:43:57 GMT -5
Such funny equivocation. Not all nazis are bad... but those damn liberals.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 16, 2017 9:48:53 GMT -5
You know, it is things like this, being called deplorable, small minded, stupid, racist, Nazi, and twenty some other derogatory insults is the reason that I am glad that I voted against Hillary! It is also the reason that I will vote for Trump next time! Thanks Steff for helping make up my mind this early. I am willing to bet that I am not alone in being offended by these insults. A little later today, I am going to my best customer, the one where the General manager give me the Nazi salute, that I have up till this point ignored. So, if he gives me the salute today, Should I punch him in the mouth lay him out cold, Or quit, call the owner who is on vacation?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 16, 2017 10:10:37 GMT -5
You have a customer who regularly gives you the Nazi salute? Why do you think he feels comfortable doing that?
I don't see how you've disproved Steff's post at all. No one is saying YOU, OC, are racist, but it seems you did decide that wasn't a deal-breaker, both in voting for Trump and in doing business with your "best customer" who likes to greet you with a Nazi salute.*
*(there are ways to stop that besides laying people out cold, also. Asking them to explain why they think it's appropriate is usually enough.)
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 16, 2017 10:12:07 GMT -5
You know, it is things like this, being called deplorable, small minded, stupid, racist, Nazi, and twenty some other derogatory insults is the reason that I am glad that I voted against Hillary! It is also the reason that I will vote for Trump next time! Thanks Steff for helping make up my mind this early. I am willing to bet that I am not alone in being offended by these insults. A little later today, I am going to my best customer, the one where the General manager give me the Nazi salute, that I have up till this point ignored. So, if he gives me the salute today, Should I punch him in the mouth lay him out cold, Or quit, call the owner who is on vacation? I don't see where what steff posted calls Trump voters deplorable. It simply says racism on the part of Trump and company isn't a deal-breaker for those voters. From what you're saying, pardoning Arpaio isn't a deal-breaker for you - even though you've made it clear you detest Arpaio. That doesn't make you deplorable.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 16, 2017 10:27:28 GMT -5
We must be reading different posts.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Aug 16, 2017 10:35:47 GMT -5
So we should not confront Nazi sympathizers? We should not say their ideas are wrong and counter protest to bring attention to the fact that the Nazi's did absolutely horrendous things in the past? If they show up with guns, shields and billy clubs but you simply wish to counter protest, you should not even bring a weapon to defend yourself?
Remember the police refused to protect the Synagogue?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 16, 2017 10:38:46 GMT -5
We must be reading different posts. If you're addressing me, I still don't see the word "deplorable" anywhere in Steff's post.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 16, 2017 10:39:07 GMT -5
What happened when the BLM was causing trouble?
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 16, 2017 10:42:34 GMT -5
What happened when the BLM was causing trouble? The police showed up and used tear gas, etc. endeavoring to bring them into line. Ferguson was a horror, zib, and there was wrong on both sides of that disaster.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 10:59:26 GMT -5
Such funny equivocation. Not all nazis are bad... but those damn liberals. I don't recall sayin nazis aren't bad. I said all hate groups are bad. Groups that show up just to cause damage are bad. I say they are all bad but it seems like the left only thinks the nazis are bad.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 11:03:24 GMT -5
So we should not confront Nazi sympathizers? We should not say their ideas are wrong and counter protest to bring attention to the fact that the Nazi's did absolutely horrendous things in the past? If they show up with guns, shields and billy clubs but you simply wish to counter protest, you should not even bring a weapon to defend yourself?
Remember the police refused to protect the Synagogue?
This is so ludicrous that I don't even know where to start. Why in the world would you want anyone to show up to protest people that you believe to be armed? You seriously don't think the smartest course of action would be to stay away and ignore? The nazis are hateful, awful people but as long as they weren't damaging property or interfering with people going about their day, let them spew their hate and ignore them.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 16, 2017 11:12:18 GMT -5
So we should not confront Nazi sympathizers? We should not say their ideas are wrong and counter protest to bring attention to the fact that the Nazi's did absolutely horrendous things in the past? If they show up with guns, shields and billy clubs but you simply wish to counter protest, you should not even bring a weapon to defend yourself?
Remember the police refused to protect the Synagogue?
No. You should not confront crazy, mean and/or unbalanced persons with weapons. That is the epitome of stupidity. If your plans are to go to a protest where you need to defend yourself with weapons, and you aren't in law enforcement, don't go. It's that simple. There are other ways to fight this craziness and most of them are along the lines of not giving them the attention they crave. This should have gone unnoticed - ignored - not given any credence whatsoever. They are going to gain absolutely nothing from these protests unless we give them what they are begging for - attention and press. Now someone is dead and they are all over the news. Just great. Now they can attract even more crazies. Both sides came to fight and they got what they wanted. Both sides are to blame.
I take these people and the damage they can do very seriously. When they hurt people and do damage, they need to be held accountable in a court of law. They have always been around and they are never going to go away. This isn't new. People like to pretend this is all because of the current administration and while I do believe these people may be emboldened right now - it still isn't new. We can fight them by living our every day lives caring about one another. Treating each other with respect. By not allowing the sins of the past and the crazies of the present tell us any different. As someone said, be the example of the change you want to see in others. That example shouldn't be coming to a protest armed and with the intent of hurting people.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Aug 16, 2017 11:15:55 GMT -5
So we should not confront Nazi sympathizers? We should not say their ideas are wrong and counter protest to bring attention to the fact that the Nazi's did absolutely horrendous things in the past? If they show up with guns, shields and billy clubs but you simply wish to counter protest, you should not even bring a weapon to defend yourself?
Remember the police refused to protect the Synagogue?
This is so ludicrous that I don't even know where to start. Why in the world would you want anyone to show up to protest people that you believe to be armed? You seriously don't think the smartest course of action would be to stay away and ignore? The nazis are hateful, awful people but as long as they weren't damaging property or interfering with people going about their day, let them spew their hate and ignore them. I don't know what the answers are, but letting them put on a "Milatary Show of Force" to intimidate people does not seem right. Someone said in Germany the Police would show up in force and get between the 2 groups...I am thinking we did not have enough security measures in place.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Aug 16, 2017 11:26:47 GMT -5
This is so ludicrous that I don't even know where to start. Why in the world would you want anyone to show up to protest people that you believe to be armed? You seriously don't think the smartest course of action would be to stay away and ignore? The nazis are hateful, awful people but as long as they weren't damaging property or interfering with people going about their day, let them spew their hate and ignore them. I don't know what the answers are, but letting them put on a "Milatary Show of Force" to intimidate people does not seem right. Someone said in Germany the Police would show up in force and get between the 2 groups...I am thinking we did not have enough security measures in place. They tried ignoring Hitler in Europe, until they just couldn't look the other way anymore. I guess if you are not a member of any of the groups they consider as "expendable", looking the other way can seem like a good and viable plan:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 11:27:02 GMT -5
You know, it is things like this, being called deplorable, small minded, stupid, racist, Nazi, and twenty some other derogatory insults is the reason that I am glad that I voted against Hillary! It is also the reason that I will vote for Trump next time! Thanks Steff for helping make up my mind this early. I am willing to bet that I am not alone in being offended by these insults. A little later today, I am going to my best customer, the one where the General manager give me the Nazi salute, that I have up till this point ignored. So, if he gives me the salute today, Should I punch him in the mouth lay him out cold, Or quit, call the owner who is on vacation? She did not call you that. (Unless that's what you identify as?) She actually specifically called out supporters for assuming all of Trumps supporters were that.
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steff
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Post by steff on Aug 16, 2017 11:37:39 GMT -5
If someone thinks that shoe fits, then wear it proudly and stop whining about it.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 11:49:19 GMT -5
I don't know what the answers are, but letting them put on a "Milatary Show of Force" to intimidate people does not seem right. Someone said in Germany the Police would show up in force and get between the 2 groups...I am thinking we did not have enough security measures in place. They tried ignoring Hitler in Europe, until they just couldn't look the other way anymore. I guess if you are not a member of any of the groups they consider as "expendable", looking the other way can seem like a good and viable plan: We have ignored them until recently. It isn't like they didn't exist until now. I agree with your other statement that there wasn't sufficient police. They should have stopped anyone and everyone that had anything that appeared to be a weapon. Both sides were geared for violence and that's what we got Now, the crazy ass that mowed down the woman is a whole other issue. That was murder plain and aimple
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Aug 16, 2017 11:56:36 GMT -5
They tried ignoring Hitler in Europe, until they just couldn't look the other way anymore. I guess if you are not a member of any of the groups they consider as "expendable", looking the other way can seem like a good and viable plan: We have ignored them until recently. It isn't like they didn't exist until now. I agree with your other statement that there wasn't sufficient police. They should have stopped anyone and everyone that had anything that appeared to be a weapon. Both sides were geared for violence and that's what we got Now, the crazy ass that mowed down the woman is a whole other issue. That was murder plain and aimple Until recently, we didn't have people sympathetic to their cause in the White House.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 12:10:45 GMT -5
Did you see video of the torch march 'Jews will not replace us' soil and blood, etc...
These two groups DID NOT show up with the same intent. Stop the equivocating.
More violence will ensue. How can it not at this point?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 12:17:29 GMT -5
Seriously, it seems like just about every elected Republican has stated that Teump is wrong here. That hate groups and those opposing hate groups are not equivocal. Those clinging to that premise here ...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 16, 2017 12:19:17 GMT -5
Ordinarily, i think hate groups should be just ignored. However, they're getting louder and louder. At some point, they need a smackdown, and I'm not sure how you do that other than counterprotesting them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 12:22:29 GMT -5
Me too. I've always been a fan of, have a bigger better carnival on the other end of town with bigger attendance and ignore the fucks.
I also like what I've heard of some people gathering to watch the 'parade' making donations based on miles walked to anti hate charities, side bets again for charities, cheering them on saying thanks for supporting... charities...
But you are right. And they will only get louder now.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 16, 2017 12:23:40 GMT -5
So we should not confront Nazi sympathizers? We should not say their ideas are wrong and counter protest to bring attention to the fact that the Nazi's did absolutely horrendous things in the past? If they show up with guns, shields and billy clubs but you simply wish to counter protest, you should not even bring a weapon to defend yourself?
Remember the police refused to protect the Synagogue?
This is so ludicrous that I don't even know where to start. Why in the world would you want anyone to show up to protest people that you believe to be armed? You seriously don't think the smartest course of action would be to stay away and ignore? The nazis are hateful, awful people but as long as they weren't damaging property or interfering with people going about their day, let them spew their hate and ignore them. Yeah, the best way to confront racism is to stay home and watch Wheel of Fortune on TV. That'll show them!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 16, 2017 12:31:38 GMT -5
Both sides are to blame and some people on both sides came to the protest with the same intent. I don't know anybody who is "equivocating" their stances - just their behavior. It's just for drama's sake to pretend any differently.
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hurley1980
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I am all that is wrong with the world....don't get too close, I'm contagious.
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 16, 2017 12:35:23 GMT -5
Yes both sides are violent, but the biggest difference in all of this that so many people are failing to understand:
BLM/Antifa = fighting for equality KKK/Nazi = fighting for superiority
There is a HUGE difference in the two. It saddens me that so many cannot see this!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 16, 2017 12:39:28 GMT -5
Yes both sides are violent, but the biggest difference in all of this that so many people are failing to understand:
BLM/Antifa = fighting for equality KKK/Nazi = fighting for superiority
There is a HUGE difference in the two. It saddens me that so many cannot see this! It saddens me that so many on the left are ok with violence from any group. I also disagree that some of the fringe groups on the left don't want to take down where people. But that is neither here nor there. Unlike you, I'm not ok with violence from any group
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