Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 10:28:15 GMT -5
His concern seemed more around whether a lower-paying job would drop the payment from whatever it would be calculated at today. There's a lost opportunity cost for sure, both in pension and in future yearly earnings...he didn't seem concerned about that though as much as the "recalculation" of the pension to incorporate the lower-earning job. And if the stress she is under kills, her, her pension would be a moot point. Joint and survivor benefits apply, right??
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 10, 2017 10:28:20 GMT -5
Can you even imagine the venom if I came on here posting about how I was going to stop helping out at home because I find it stressful and it's "killing me", and instead I just expected my wife to pick up the slack because she happens to enjoy doing her share of the housework she does currently? I'm not going to hire someone else to do it, my wife can just do those chores in the time she currently spends volunteering for her favorite charities...instead of donating that time to charity she should just donate it to her spouse because I deserve it. I may not always agree with the things you post here but I've always thought that you were clearly an intelligent person. Which is why I'm surprised by what you just wrote. Do you honestly think that is a legitimate comparison? Household chores are certainly boring and unsatisfactory but as much as unloading the dishwasher annoys me, I could never compare that to going to work every day to a job I hate. I agree. And I think the toll of her job is being overlooked. She is working with a very, very difficult population. I know it's not quite the same thing, but my aunt worked as a nurse in a juvenile mental facility for most of her career. She suffered broken bones, concussions, had to undergo dozens of blood screens after being scratched or spit on, had feces hurled at her, etc. All nurses deal with difficult patients, just like all teachers deal with difficult students, but this is a different league altogether. I work an office job where any stress is purely mental. I don't have to worry about being spit on by someone with hepatitis or having a chair thrown at me while my back is turned. It's easy to say "just find another job," but I'm guessing comparably-paying jobs in the special ed world don't look much different from the one she's leaving.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 10:30:24 GMT -5
And if the stress she is under kills, her, her pension would be a moot point. Joint and survivor benefits apply, right?? So it is more important that Tractor gets his wife's legacy than have her around. Yeah.....I'd love to be wanted for my legacy.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 10:32:15 GMT -5
Just because YOU are only annoyed doesn't mean that I don't find it to be loathsome. Just like tractor likes his job and his wife HATES hers. I'm certainly entitled to HATE household chores as much as anyone else is entitled to HATE their job.
Heck, isn't that even more of a reason to those chores onto my wife? If she should only find them boring and unsatisfactory...and I HATE them...she should easily pick up all my slack for my mental health. I'm also considering "household chores" to consist of things you have to do for the kids, the lawn, repairs, etc. Much more than simply emptying the dishwasher.
I can't speak for Tractor's wife but my dishes have never told me to f*ck off or physically assaulted me. My students have. My nail gun and electrical wiring have both assaulted me, and I'm pretty sure the lawnmower and weed whacker are plotting for my toes.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 10:33:26 GMT -5
Support also means stepping back and looking at your actions and wants, and how they are affecting your spouse. If my spouse had a job that was killing him, especially if finances were not critical, I would want them to be happy and less stressed, regardless of money. Tractor's actions have consequences too. What is is going to take for him to realize that an extremely stressful job (and considering she has been looking for 2 years and has had ONE bite) means that she has been trying to maneuver herself into a less stressful situation with not as much success as Tractor would like. Can we stop with all the melodramatics of "killing"? Has anything been suggested that this job is actually killing her? I'm not sure why whenever someone simply doesn't like doing something it has to become all dramatic and exaggerated.
Is that just how overly-dramatic people get their way in things like this?
If she's doing the job I think she's doing based on Tractor's description it is a REALLY tough job. I talked to a lot of people going into when I worked for the organization here that does that kind of work. I give major props to anyone who does what she does. It's a field that has a very high burn out rate because you will be dealing with some seriously messed up shit, a lot of which will never be resolved and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. It may not be killing her but it's one of those types of jobs where you need the soul of Job to be able to do it all the way till retirement. I don't see why it is unreasonable to let her move, take a temporary hit and then she keep looking for a better paying position while in the lower paying one. It doesn't sound like Tractor can't pay any of his bills if she takes the job, they just have to cut back on discretionary spending/giving. I am defintely not a YM-er because I would not insist my spouse keep a high stress job so I can keep spending and knock a handful of debt payments off the calendar.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 10:40:24 GMT -5
Joint and survivor benefits apply, right?? So it is more important that Tractor gets his wife's legacy than have her around. Yeah.....I'd love to be wanted for my legacy. hahahaha...I was joking. Tractor loves his wife. That has been obvious from his posts over the years. That doesn't mean he automatically has to support her.
And I'm sorry, but a lot of people have a stressful job. That doesn't mean that their spouse automatically is forced to pick up the financial slack. If she were single she wouldn't just get to up and quit. She would have no choice but to find another job that would allow her to support herself and her children. I don't know why she just automatically gets to be supported by a man. And it's funny because I'm the one that isn't a feminist yet I seem to be one of the few that doesn't think a woman has a god given right to be supported by a man
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 10, 2017 10:45:55 GMT -5
This won't happen, I value my marriage more than this. I would never throw away 25 years with her over $$$ I know that. I was making a point that if a woman would walk away from a man because he wouldn't financially support her, then a man has every right to do the same. That kind of attitude of "support me or I'm leaving" would certainly make me want to leave the person.
I don't think gender has anything to do with this conversation other than the fact that tractor happens to be male and his wife female. I think it would be fine to replace "spouse" or "partner" with "man" or "woman" - my opinion would not change. IMO, she should take that job and continue looking for something better. The Tractors don't "need" the extra money, and they are not living paycheck to paycheck. They can afford to give $10k less/year so that his wife and likely household can have more peace.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Aug 10, 2017 10:47:00 GMT -5
OK, old Granny here......let's do this the old fashioned way....rather like what YNAB offers.
Sit down across the kitchen table and start this by listing your NET income from both your new jobs. From there move into what items can not be changed. You mentioned having 2 houses...does that mean 2 mortgages, taxes, utilities, upkeep inside and out? List everything those 2 houses are costing you. From there, start listing other items that can't be changes...i.e car payments, insurance on houses, cars, umbrella policies etc. Just keep listing those costs as you think of them, but these first ones need to be priority expenses that can't be changed.
From there let's get to the discretionary spending.....grocery costs can be altered, and it's possible to change the amount of gasoline used each month....c/mon you're a smart boy so you can see what I'm talking about. Just keep those things coming and eventually you'll get to the bottom of the list. From there it's simply, deduct expenses from NET income.
This is the time to honestly brutal with each other, and if you want some guidance d/l a version of YNAB (it's free for 34 days). Trust me, it hurts when you see the out-go is more than the in-go, but no one ever said this was going to be easy. JUST DO IT.
Then, the hardest part is seeing what can actually be eliminated from your spending so that you still get to keep some of the items you both value the most.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 10, 2017 10:50:13 GMT -5
So I direct this question to tractor. Is your wife on board with giving less if she takes this pay cut? Is she on board with reducing expenses by $20-30K a year? Does she have a plan on making things work with the reduced household income? To me, a lot depends on those answers.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 10:50:36 GMT -5
So it is more important that Tractor gets his wife's legacy than have her around. Yeah.....I'd love to be wanted for my legacy. hahahaha...I was joking. Tractor loves his wife. That has been obvious from his posts over the years. That doesn't mean he automatically has to support her.
And I'm sorry, but a lot of people have a stressful job. That doesn't mean that their spouse automatically is forced to pick up the financial slack. If she were single she wouldn't just get to up and quit. She would have no choice but to find another job that would allow her to support herself and her children. I don't know why she just automatically gets to be supported by a man. And it's funny because I'm the one that isn't a feminist yet I seem to be one of the few that doesn't think a woman has a god given right to be supported by a man
How is she being supported by a man? She is employed, and has been making equivalent to him for what sounds like the better part of their marriage. Her children are 17 and 20, so she'd only need to support herself if this was the case and she could easily do this in a LCOL area (I know, I have done it myself and still managed to save a considerable sum). DH has a stressful job, where if he screws up he could cause a refinery to go BOOM and kill people. If he came to me and told me that he just needed to step back, I would be all for it (in fact, when someone did an end run around him last week and he caught it, he was just about ready to do just that). I trust that he knows the limit of the stress he can handle and if he says that he's had it....then he has. If we had to downsize to avoid stress, then I'd be ok with it.
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cyanne
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Post by cyanne on Aug 10, 2017 10:52:25 GMT -5
So it is more important that Tractor gets his wife's legacy than have her around. Yeah.....I'd love to be wanted for my legacy. hahahaha...I was joking. Tractor loves his wife. That has been obvious from his posts over the years. That doesn't mean he automatically has to support her.
And I'm sorry, but a lot of people have a stressful job. That doesn't mean that their spouse automatically is forced to pick up the financial slack. If she were single she wouldn't just get to up and quit. She would have no choice but to find another job that would allow her to support herself and her children. I don't know why she just automatically gets to be supported by a man. And it's funny because I'm the one that isn't a feminist yet I seem to be one of the few that doesn't think a woman has a god given right to be supported by a man
She didn't just quit. She found another job. A job that would support herself in a LCOL area. It may not support Tractor's standard of living but that is why he is working, right? Why should she have to work a job she hates because he likes to have higher charitable giving and wants to pay bills off earlier? Tractor and his wife need to sit down and find a balance. I agree that this conversation should have taken place before she accepted a lower paying position but I suspect she was at the end of her rope. Tractor, have you not had any discussions with your wife about what her leaving her job would look like before this happened? I suspect that you may but didn't realize how desperate she had become and was willing to drop her income $30,000 to get out.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 10:56:29 GMT -5
hahahaha...I was joking. Tractor loves his wife. That has been obvious from his posts over the years. That doesn't mean he automatically has to support her.
And I'm sorry, but a lot of people have a stressful job. That doesn't mean that their spouse automatically is forced to pick up the financial slack. If she were single she wouldn't just get to up and quit. She would have no choice but to find another job that would allow her to support herself and her children. I don't know why she just automatically gets to be supported by a man. And it's funny because I'm the one that isn't a feminist yet I seem to be one of the few that doesn't think a woman has a god given right to be supported by a man
How is she being supported by a man? She is employed, and has been making equivalent to him for what sounds like the better part of their marriage. Her children are 17 and 20, so she'd only need to support herself if this was the case and she could easily do this in a LCOL area (I know, I have done it myself and still managed to save a considerable sum). DH has a stressful job, where if he screws up he could cause a refinery to go BOOM and kill people. If he came to me and told me that he just needed to step back, I would be all for it (in fact, when someone did an end run around him last week and he caught it, he was just about ready to do just that). I trust that he knows the limit of the stress he can handle and if he says that he's had it....then he has. If we had to downsize to avoid stress, then I'd be ok with it. I have an 18 year old...you are absolutely still supporting them in many ways if they are in college.
My point all along has been that a woman does not get to make a unilateral decision to take $30k out of the household. If Tractor decided he wanted to take a 6 month unpaid sabbatical to decompress, I would say the same thing. You can't make one spouse pick up the financial slack. A $30k hit to a household is huge. It doesn't matter if they are living paycheck to paycheck or not.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 10, 2017 10:57:00 GMT -5
I wouldn't work residential care for severely challenged kids to give away 20% of the household income. I wouldn't spend that much time away from my kids and spouse to give it away either. Even working non-residential with that population is exhausting. This is where I am at. Tractor is giving away 20% of THEIR income, on the back of his wife. Her job isn't 40 hours/week but 80 hours....which means her salary is really half that, or $35k. Not quite such a deal, is it? She is working twice as much as Tractor, to get the same salary. Welcome to education
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 10:57:34 GMT -5
hahahaha...I was joking. Tractor loves his wife. That has been obvious from his posts over the years. That doesn't mean he automatically has to support her.
And I'm sorry, but a lot of people have a stressful job. That doesn't mean that their spouse automatically is forced to pick up the financial slack. If she were single she wouldn't just get to up and quit. She would have no choice but to find another job that would allow her to support herself and her children. I don't know why she just automatically gets to be supported by a man. And it's funny because I'm the one that isn't a feminist yet I seem to be one of the few that doesn't think a woman has a god given right to be supported by a man
She didn't just quit. She found another job. A job that would support herself in a LCOL area. It may not support Tractor's standard of living but that is why he is working, right? Why should she have to work a job she hates because he likes to have higher charitable giving and wants to pay b ills off earlier? Tractor and his wife need to sit down and find a balance. I agree that this conversation should have taken place before she accepted a lower paying position but I suspect she was at the end of her rope. Tractor, have you not had any discussions with your wife about what her leaving her job would look like before this happened? I suspect that you may but didn't realize how desperate she had become and was willing to drop her income $30,000 to get out. That I agree with. I am not opposed to someone agreeing to financially support their spouse. I am opposed to anyone assuming the spouse should have to do it.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 11:01:25 GMT -5
And to that point, if she up and takes this job without tractor's approval, he is well within his rights to leave the marriage because she clearly doesn't value him. No one has a god given right to have a man support them. This won't happen, I value my marriage more than this. I would never throw away 25 years with her over $$$ I wouldn't do it over money, I might do it over that kind of unilateral decision-making for our family. If your concern is actually the money, you're not in bad shape so don't fret about it too much. Financially you have never SOUNDED like you were in dire straights...so you'll get by cutting things here and there and your raise will make up most of it. Money isn't a big problem here IMO.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 10, 2017 11:06:57 GMT -5
I'm no relationship expert by any stretch of the imagination, but to me a marriage - a solid marriage - is about balance and complementing each other. I don't think it's possible for everything to be completely equal all the time. There will be times where person A will have to do more because person B is suffering, and person B will have to do more because A is struggling. And then there are times when A and B are basically doing the same. I 100% understand being resentful at being told that your spouse is taking a pay cut regardless of your feelings - that is a conversation that should happen before action takes place. Are promotions discussed as well as paycuts? I think they should be, as they often come with reduce availability at home and additional stress (which affects the home).
Sounds like this whole thing - like most things - happened due to a communication breakdown. Has Mrs. Tractor been saying how stressed she was? If my spouse spent all down time sleeping or out, I would definitely be having a conversation with them about what can be done to alleviate some of that stress. I would NOT have just let it go - especially not for years. IMO you both dropped the ball here and need to take this as a sign that you need to be more in touch with each other's needs and issues.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 11:10:12 GMT -5
So it is more important that Tractor gets his wife's legacy than have her around. Yeah.....I'd love to be wanted for my legacy. hahahaha...I was joking. Tractor loves his wife. That has been obvious from his posts over the years. That doesn't mean he automatically has to support her.
And I'm sorry, but a lot of people have a stressful job. That doesn't mean that their spouse automatically is forced to pick up the financial slack. If she were single she wouldn't just get to up and quit. She would have no choice but to find another job that would allow her to support herself and her children. I don't know why she just automatically gets to be supported by a man. And it's funny because I'm the one that isn't a feminist yet I seem to be one of the few that doesn't think a woman has a god given right to be supported by a man
You are the only one who is viewing it this way. I view it as if my spouse is seriously stressed out at his job and the only thing I need to do is put off some debt payment and charitable giving, but can manage to pay all our bills in spite of the reduced income then I am a major asshole if I won't agree because I don't want to cut back on discretionary stuff. We have small children at home so if we are both working we have to factor that cost into the equation which currently means no neither one of us can take a significant pay cut. If we had no young children at home then we could absorb the hit. It would not be fun but if he was in agreement about what needs to be done so he can switch then I would support it. I do not view it as "supporting his lazy ass" at all. If our combined incomes support the household I don't care if he makes more or less than me. If we can't pay all our bills then it's a different story. If it comes down to cutting back on giving vs worrying about my spouse having a heart attack due to stress (which given DH's age is a possibility) I know which I am choosing. Losing DH isn't worth the extra money.
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cameragrrl
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Post by cameragrrl on Aug 10, 2017 11:10:59 GMT -5
Assuming she's currently working 16 hours a day/6 days per week at her current job, that's 96 hours a week. Divided into her salary at 70k, it's about $14 per hour with no support. If you assume the new job is roughly 10 hours a day/5 days per week, that's almost half the hours. It works out to $15.38 per hour. So she's getting a raise and half of her hours back.
I understand the drive to get debt paid down, but I think as was suggested earlier, it would be worth it to look at what the cost truly is, in specific. Does this mean that you'd pay off the mortgages in 15 years instead of 5? Maybe it's more than that, but I don't think you know yet. Is that truly worth her state of mind? You also mentioned that your new job requires more time traveling etc, so this would enable her to pick up that slack.
It sounds like this is the only thing she's been able to find over two years of searching. I know that by the time I've started job hunting, I'm usually DONE with my current job. Holding on for two years in that state of mind is incredibly tough.
I'm not saying that $30k is nothing, but neither is working half the hours with more support. If you can swing it, especially with the promotion that you may have on the horizon, her new job may allow you to take on those extra responsibilities without everything at home all falling by the wayside.
I've been pretty frustrated with my job for a while. One day, I was contemplating quitting. I told my husband about my impulse and he said "go for it". Sadly, do not live in a LCOL, and it's not an option. But it meant a lot that he supported me either way.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 11:11:01 GMT -5
I'm no relationship expert by any stretch of the imagination, but to me a marriage - a solid marriage - is about balance and complementing each other. I don't think it's possible for everything to be completely equal all the time. There will be times where person A will have to do more because person B is suffering, and person B will have to do more because A is struggling. And then there are times when A and B are basically doing the same. I 100% understand being resentful at being told that your spouse is taking a pay cut regardless of your feelings - that is a conversation that should happen before action takes place. Are promotions discussed as well as paycuts? I think they should be, as they often come with reduce availability at home and additional stress (which affects the home). Sounds like this whole thing - like most things - happened due to a communication breakdown. Has Mrs. Tractor been saying how stressed she was? If my spouse spent all down time sleeping or out, I would definitely be having a conversation with them about what can be done to alleviate some of that stress. I would NOT have just let it go - especially not for years. IMO you both dropped the ball here and need to take this as a sign that you need to be more in touch with each other's needs and issues.It sounds like you might need a third party to deal with some of these issues.....particularly if Mrs. Tractor has been telling him how stressed she was and he has been blowing it off.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 10, 2017 11:28:01 GMT -5
Does she continue teaching during the summer and other holidays? I'm sorry but no way is she working that many hours. Stressful job, yes, but my aunt taught children with severe autism for over 30 years. She worked a lot of hours to avoid my uncle and their home life, not because her job required it.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 10, 2017 11:36:01 GMT -5
Time is the most precious thing you have in your life. Life is way too short to spend the majority of it being miserable. I'm not sure why you'd think the needs of charities, or whoever you're giving your money away to, are that much more important than the needs of your wife?
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 10, 2017 11:36:38 GMT -5
16 hrs a day/6 days a week...I know CEOs that don't work those hours.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 10, 2017 11:38:30 GMT -5
Yup, it looks like the charity begins at home mantra is going to set in. Too bad about the charities and I hope you can continue supporting your sons in college. Obviously you're the one expected to.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 10, 2017 11:39:38 GMT -5
16 hrs a day/6 days a week...I know CEOs that don't work those hours. Yeah, this doesn't ring true at all. Either she's extremely inefficient with her time or she's doing something else.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 10, 2017 11:41:15 GMT -5
Seriously...for 40K a year I would think she could find a nice office job from 8-5. For me it is not so much her taking a big pay cut as it is her going to the same type of job that she hates.
Like I said before, I don't know diddly squat about teaching and I get that residential vs. non-residential is different but for that amount of money I would think she could get a lot less stressful job. My admin assistant makes 38K a year. She is out the door by 5PM everyday.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 10, 2017 11:42:03 GMT -5
So I direct this question to tractor. Is your wife on board with giving less if she takes this pay cut? Is she on board with reducing expenses by $20-30K a year? Does she have a plan on making things work with the reduced household income? To me, a lot depends on those answers. Yes, to all but having a plan. We're still working on that.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 10, 2017 11:47:42 GMT -5
Yup, it looks like the charity begins at home mantra is going to set in. Too bad about the charities and I hope you can continue supporting your sons in college. Obviously you're the one expected to. so charities are more important than his own wife? Nice.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 10, 2017 11:47:43 GMT -5
But she's already quit so what good is a plan now? Too late.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 11:48:02 GMT -5
Boys Town is where she would be working here and they don't pay shit. You go into it because you want to help the children not because you want to make oodles of money. If she's in a residential situation that's a different ball of wax compared to working at a school and going home at 4:30. There is A LOT of regulatory paperwork involved in a residential system and you're not just dealing with children you are often having to work with the entire family because the main goal is reunification.
She could totally be working those hours with that population. People seem to be hearing "special ed teacher" and not considering the type of "special ed" she is dealing with.
I can certainly understand why she would be willing to hop to the school district even if it means less pay.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 10, 2017 11:48:47 GMT -5
Obviously the charities mean nothing to her. He's going to have to readjust his mind to that. Hopefully the sons still get college.
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