Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 9:32:15 GMT -5
This is where I am at. Tractor is giving away 20% of THEIR income, on the back of his wife. Her job isn't 40 hours/week but 80 hours....which means her salary is really half that, or $35k. Not quite such a deal, is it? She is working twice as much as Tractor, to get the same salary. What evidence has been presented that Tractor is giving away money that his wife hasn't agreed to give away? Shh...we don't need facts to support anything here.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 9:32:37 GMT -5
This is where I am at. Tractor is giving away 20% of THEIR income, on the back of his wife. Her job isn't 40 hours/week but 80 hours....which means her salary is really half that, or $35k. Not quite such a deal, is it? She is working twice as much as Tractor, to get the same salary. What evidence has been presented that Tractor is giving away money that his wife hasn't agreed to give away? "I'll try to answer a few questions, but first understand that I'm a selfish, greedy, generous person. I would never turn down a chance to make more $, but I take great joy in giving it away. "
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Aug 10, 2017 9:33:43 GMT -5
This isn't about sexism or pay disparity. This issue is one partner in a marriage is utterly miserable and wants to take a lower paying job to get out of that situation. Judging by Tractor's description of where they live, they could easily survive on one salary of 70K but his wife has not quit her job and relied on her husband to pay all the bills. Instead, she has continued to do a job she hates while trying to secure another position. I don't think she's selfish at all. I would support my husband in the same way. We will have to agree to disagree. A $30k paycut is huge, whether they can afford it or not. She doesn't just automatically have the right to have her spouse support her. If I am looking for someone to pay my way in life, they have to actually WANT to do that. Tractor doesn't. Would she be willing to take a $30k paycut if she were single? But she's not single. They have a combined income of $160K in a LCOLA that will be reduced to $130K and will still easily cover all of their needs and, probably, most of their wants. My answer would have been different if their family needed that $160K to pay all their bills and they'd be in real trouble with a 30K pay cut. My answer would also have been different if she was a single woman who could not pay all her bills on $40K. But that's not their situation. I find it hard to understand that anyone would ask their spouse to continue working at a job that is sucking the very life out of them for an additional 30K that is not truly needed to keep their household together.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 9:34:33 GMT -5
We will have to agree to disagree. A $30k paycut is huge, whether they can afford it or not. She doesn't just automatically have the right to have her spouse support her. If I am looking for someone to pay my way in life, they have to actually WANT to do that. Tractor doesn't. Would she be willing to take a $30k paycut if she were single? If she wanted someone to pay her way in life, why would she have put herself through this stress for 23 years? It sounds like she has reached her breaking point, and emotionally this job has wrung her life out of her. So find another job that pays similarly. But she's "not interested" in an admin job. So instead she's going to jump to another job in a less financially secure employer, where she has no idea whether she'll even enjoy that job or not. And all that is still fine if you can convince your partner to hop on board...she hasn't.
I haven't seen anyone say she has to keep THIS job...but she apparently won't look for other jobs which would be something different than this job she hates that still pay well. It's a copout to say "this is the only one she got offered" if she's only LOOKING for jobs that would pay this much less because other jobs just don't interest her.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 9:34:52 GMT -5
This isn't about sexism or pay disparity. This issue is one partner in a marriage is utterly miserable and wants to take a lower paying job to get out of that situation. Judging by Tractor's description of where they live, they could easily survive on one salary of 70K but his wife has not quit her job and relied on her husband to pay all the bills. Instead, she has continued to do a job she hates while trying to secure another position. I don't think she's selfish at all. I would support my husband in the same way. I would and have. DH took a pay cut to go to his current employer. He has since gotten a promotion and raise far above what would have been possible at the old place. He also has about a billion times more job satisfaction, which (to me) was well worth the loss of pay. I agree that it shouldn't be a unilateral decision, but I also come from a place where I couldn't imagine telling DH he couldn't take a new job to get away from one that was causing him terrible stress. We have always discussed the pros and cons of different paths, but ultimately I tell him his job is his decision because he's the one who has to go in every day. I would expect the same courtesy if the situation were reversed. (This all with the caveat that we could live on one income, obviously there are some situations where you need to suck it up and do what you have to do to put food on the table.) And that is fine if that is what works in your marriage. I personally would not be ok with someone wanting to take $30k out of our household income and make me the breadwinner. So if it isn't a unilateral decision and you can't agree, what do you do?
I always looked at it as a person cannot expect someone else to support them if they do not want to. In this case, tractor doesn't want to so what gives the right for the wife to demand it?
I'm not saying she shouldn't find a new job. I'm saying she needs to find one at the same level of income.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 9:35:18 GMT -5
This isn't about sexism or pay disparity. This issue is one partner in a marriage is utterly miserable and wants to take a lower paying job to get out of that situation. Judging by Tractor's description of where they live, they could easily survive on one salary of 70K but his wife has not quit her job and relied on her husband to pay all the bills. Instead, she has continued to do a job she hates while trying to secure another position. I don't think she's selfish at all. I would support my husband in the same way. We will have to agree to disagree. A $30k paycut is huge, whether they can afford it or not. She doesn't just automatically have the right to have her spouse support her. If I am looking for someone to pay my way in life, they have to actually WANT to do that. Tractor doesn't. Would she be willing to take a $30k paycut if she were single? If I could make up 20% of that by not giving it away to other people and charities I'd take the leap. It'd suck but its less sucky than having a stroke thanks to my job. Then once I was out of the toxic situation I would pour all that mental energy I freed up into finding a better paying position. That was the plan when I hated my job. Fortunately BT was about as low as I could go pay wise short of being a burger flipper so any job I found was going to pay better. However DH was willing to tighten the belt if it meant that I would be happier. I'd do the same for him. If we could not pay our bills with the pay cut I wouldn't be okay with it. I would be beyond piss if my husband told me I could not switch jobs because my husband wants to keep being generous towards other people, who likely can figure out how to survive just fine without that extra cash. But I am a horrible selfish person that way. My life doesn't revolve around how much money I make and how fast i can work myself into the grave for it.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 9:36:20 GMT -5
We will have to agree to disagree. A $30k paycut is huge, whether they can afford it or not. She doesn't just automatically have the right to have her spouse support her. If I am looking for someone to pay my way in life, they have to actually WANT to do that. Tractor doesn't. Would she be willing to take a $30k paycut if she were single? But she's not single. They have a combined income of $160K in a LCOLA that will be reduced to $130K and will still easily cover all of their needs and, probably, most of their wants. My answer would have been different if their family needed that $160K to pay all their bills and they'd be in real trouble with a 30K pay cut. My answer would also have been different if she was a single woman who could not pay all her bills on $40K. But that's not their situation. I find it hard to understand that anyone would ask their spouse to continue working at a job that is sucking the very life out of them for an additional 30K that is not truly needed to keep their household together. But your answer is then for tractor to pick up the slack. How is that fair to him?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 9:37:43 GMT -5
If she wanted someone to pay her way in life, why would she have put herself through this stress for 23 years? It sounds like she has reached her breaking point, and emotionally this job has wrung her life out of her. So find another job that pays similarly. But she's "not interested" in an admin job. So instead she's going to jump to another job in a less financially secure employer, where she has no idea whether she'll even enjoy that job or not. And all that is still fine if you can convince your partner to hop on board...she hasn't.
I haven't seen anyone say she has to keep THIS job...but she apparently won't look for other jobs which would be something different than this job she hates that still pay well. It's a copout to say "this is the only one she got offered" if she's only LOOKING for jobs that would pay this much less because other jobs just don't interest her.
What makes you think she's be eligible for an admin job? She has 23 years of experience in working with disadvantaged teenagers, do you really think someone would pay $70K for a person who has absolutely no experience in admin?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 9:38:06 GMT -5
If she wanted someone to pay her way in life, why would she have put herself through this stress for 23 years? It sounds like she has reached her breaking point, and emotionally this job has wrung her life out of her. So find another job that pays similarly. But she's "not interested" in an admin job. So instead she's going to jump to another job in a less financially secure employer, where she has no idea whether she'll even enjoy that job or not. And all that is still fine if you can convince your partner to hop on board...she hasn't.
I haven't seen anyone say she has to keep THIS job...but she apparently won't look for other jobs which would be something different than this job she hates that still pay well. It's a copout to say "this is the only one she got offered" if she's only LOOKING for jobs that would pay this much less because other jobs just don't interest her.
It honestly shocks me that so many people just expect tractor to be ok with a $30k loss in income.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 9:39:22 GMT -5
But she's not single. They have a combined income of $160K in a LCOLA that will be reduced to $130K and will still easily cover all of their needs and, probably, most of their wants. My answer would have been different if their family needed that $160K to pay all their bills and they'd be in real trouble with a 30K pay cut. My answer would also have been different if she was a single woman who could not pay all her bills on $40K. But that's not their situation. I find it hard to understand that anyone would ask their spouse to continue working at a job that is sucking the very life out of them for an additional 30K that is not truly needed to keep their household together. But your answer is then for tractor to pick up the slack. How is that fair to him?
If he would not give away 20% of their income, that would go a long way to helping out. He is the one who claims that he is generous and he loves doing it. Only problem is that he's not willing to give a comparable amount to his wife. How is that fair?
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 10, 2017 9:40:17 GMT -5
This is what bothers me the most. I don't think anyone should stay at a job they hate, and I honestly think I would be more supportive if she was seeking a complete career change. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around giving up 30K a year for a job that is pretty similar to what she has already.
On the other hand, I take issue with tractor being upset that he won't be able to give away as much money. Not being able to give away money is not a real reason for your spouse to stay at a job he/she hates.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Aug 10, 2017 9:41:19 GMT -5
This isn't about sexism or pay disparity. This issue is one partner in a marriage is utterly miserable and wants to take a lower paying job to get out of that situation. Judging by Tractor's description of where they live, they could easily survive on one salary of 70K but his wife has not quit her job and relied on her husband to pay all the bills. Instead, she has continued to do a job she hates while trying to secure another position. I don't think she's selfish at all. I would support my husband in the same way. I would and have. DH took a pay cut to go to his current employer. He has since gotten a promotion and raise far above what would have been possible at the old place. He also has about a billion times more job satisfaction, which (to me) was well worth the loss of pay. I agree that it shouldn't be a unilateral decision, but I also come from a place where I couldn't imagine telling DH he couldn't take a new job to get away from one that was causing him terrible stress. We always discuss the pros and cons of different paths, and if I think he's overlooking something or his expectations are off I'll weigh in, but ultimately I tell him his job is his decision because he's the one who has to go in every day. I would expect the same courtesy if the situation were reversed. (This all with the caveat that we could live on one income, obviously there are some situations where you need to suck it up and do what you have to do to put food on the table.) As would I, but thankfully in our situation hubs found a new job that did pay more than his previous job that was killing him. We had a discussion, well many sometimes rational sometimes heated discussions, about how low he can go pay-wise. I already make more than him and I was grudgingly willing to shoulder more of the income. I say grudgingly because i fully admit that I like where our income is headed and don't necessarily want to step back, but I also realize that if my spouse didn't leave his job soon that something was going to happen. He was not in a good place mentally at all. I wasn't in a good place emotionally because of that. Now, we're two months into his new job and his transformation back to a happy and available spouse is amazing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 9:42:03 GMT -5
As long as we were not hurting for money, I'd let her do it without question. I would, however, voice the expectation that her outside spending might have to be limited because of it. If she wants to give up $30,000/year in income, it needs to be taken into account elsewhere. If it requires a sacrifice of some sort, that is part of her choice. Then tractor better not be slacking in his home front because he took in more hours. If income is seiarate, everything is separate. I actually erased a portion of my 'more than pissed' comment above. In the case I'd described, I'd leave the marriage. Is know where I stood, how much I was vakued. It wouldn't be worth it. I could easily support myself in low cola on 40k and my pension.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 9:43:23 GMT -5
What evidence has been presented that Tractor is giving away money that his wife hasn't agreed to give away? "I'll try to answer a few questions, but first understand that I'm a selfish, greedy, generous person. I would never turn down a chance to make more $, but I take great joy in giving it away. " What part of that says anything about his wife not agreeing to do it together?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 9:44:31 GMT -5
This is where I am at. Tractor is giving away 20% of THEIR income, on the back of his wife. Her job isn't 40 hours/week but 80 hours....which means her salary is really half that, or $35k. Not quite such a deal, is it? She is working twice as much as Tractor, to get the same salary. What evidence has been presented that Tractor is giving away money that his wife hasn't agreed to give away? I've asked he didn't answer. He didn't say WE are generous... he said he was...
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 9:47:01 GMT -5
So find another job that pays similarly. But she's "not interested" in an admin job. So instead she's going to jump to another job in a less financially secure employer, where she has no idea whether she'll even enjoy that job or not. And all that is still fine if you can convince your partner to hop on board...she hasn't.
I haven't seen anyone say she has to keep THIS job...but she apparently won't look for other jobs which would be something different than this job she hates that still pay well. It's a copout to say "this is the only one she got offered" if she's only LOOKING for jobs that would pay this much less because other jobs just don't interest her.
What makes you think she's be eligible for an admin job? She has 23 years of experience in working with disadvantaged teenagers, do you really think someone would pay $70K for a person who has absolutely no experience in admin? Here's the only way to know...apply and see what happens. Writing it off as being impossible with nothing but "I'm not interested" as evidence isn't logical.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 9:47:03 GMT -5
"I'll try to answer a few questions, but first understand that I'm a selfish, greedy, generous person. I would never turn down a chance to make more $, but I take great joy in giving it away. " What part of that says anything about his wife not agreeing to do it together? What difference does it make? If your wife hated her job so much that she was willing to take a pay cut to get away from it, wouldn't you think that the money that is given away to others would compensate for the difference? Tractor (and his wife) has given away roughly the SAME AMOUNT of money each year and SHE needs help now. Where does his wife's mental health come in the calculation of money?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 9:48:19 GMT -5
What makes you think she's be eligible for an admin job? She has 23 years of experience in working with disadvantaged teenagers, do you really think someone would pay $70K for a person who has absolutely no experience in admin? Here's the only way to know...apply and see what happens. Writing it off as being impossible with nothing but "I'm not interested" as evidence isn't logical. So she goes from one job she likes, but is killing her to another job that she has no interest in. Yeah......that makes sense.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Aug 10, 2017 9:49:43 GMT -5
If a spouse cannot support another when they are so stressed, I don't know what the marriage vows mean.
IMO, Money is not everything in life. Will you be able to live without your wife, if something happened to her because of the stress - a break down, a heart attack?
I am speaking from experience and that's why I want you to think about what is important.
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cyanne
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Post by cyanne on Aug 10, 2017 9:50:41 GMT -5
For those of you who aren't teachers I want to clarify a couple of things. You can't just go into administration. You have to go get the license which requires additional time and costs (tuition, be an admin intern). Once you do this there is no guarantee of getting an admin position. I work in a high school where there are approximately 100 teachers. At least 15 of them have admin licenses. There just aren't that many administration positions to move into even if you have the license. If Tractor's wife has no interest in becoming an admin then there is no reason for her to spend the time and money to get a license that may not result in an administrator position.
Another fluke in the teaching profession is pay. I have been teaching special education for nine years and have been looking for another position. Many of the districts I have looked at will not pay for all of your years of experience. One of the districts I looked at specifically said in their contract that they would only transfer five years of experience to their pay scale. This would result in a significant loss of salary since teachers tend to make higher salaries after 10 years.
Finding a position in a different field as an entry level employee in a LCOL area that replaces her $70,000 is unlikely as well. It is really easy to sit behind a computer and say that she needs to find a job that pays closer to her current salary but the odds are against her.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Aug 10, 2017 9:51:25 GMT -5
But she's not single. They have a combined income of $160K in a LCOLA that will be reduced to $130K and will still easily cover all of their needs and, probably, most of their wants. My answer would have been different if their family needed that $160K to pay all their bills and they'd be in real trouble with a 30K pay cut. My answer would also have been different if she was a single woman who could not pay all her bills on $40K. But that's not their situation. I find it hard to understand that anyone would ask their spouse to continue working at a job that is sucking the very life out of them for an additional 30K that is not truly needed to keep their household together. But your answer is then for tractor to pick up the slack. How is that fair to him?
What slack? That's the point I (and I think some other posters) are trying to make. He's not being asked to work more hours or pick up a second job. In essence, he's being asked to stop giving away money to other people in exchange for his spouse's improved mental well-being.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 9:52:40 GMT -5
Here's the only way to know...apply and see what happens. Writing it off as being impossible with nothing but "I'm not interested" as evidence isn't logical. So she goes from one job she likes, but is killing her to another job that she has no interest in. Yeah......that makes sense. She's already going from one job she dislikes to another job she has no idea if she'll like, and taking a big pay cut to do it. She HATES her current job...if she really hated it that much, she'd jump at the opportunity for a job she simply "isn't interested in". I'm not interested in waking up early, but I still do it because I need to for my job.
Oh the dramatics of a job "killing her" because she dislikes it.
There's an obvious disconnect when someone says "I HATE my current job"..."oh but the only job I take will be in this one specific area". You don't really hate your job that much if the options you're willing to take to get out of it are that narrow.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 9:54:05 GMT -5
If a spouse cannot support another when they are so stressed, I don't know what the marriage vows mean. IMO, Money is not everything in life. Will you be able to live without your wife, if something happened to her because of the stress - a break down, a heart attack? I am speaking from experience and that's why I want you to think about what is important. "support" is not the same as "do whatever you feel like doing without even bothering to figure out the consequences of your actions".
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 10, 2017 9:55:49 GMT -5
It's not similar at all! Residential vs. non-residential, less hours, different population of kids. Tractor talks about money but hasn't said too much about what his wife feels or thinks. It sounds like his wife has been sacrificing for awhile to meet tractors financial goals. Maybe it's time for a better work-life balance. They still have kids in the house and she's working six days a week. Okay, I skipped some stuff so I missed this was residential vs non-residential. Yeah, that sounds a lot different to me and I admittedly don't know diddly squat about teaching special needs kids.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 10, 2017 9:56:17 GMT -5
So find another job that pays similarly. But she's "not interested" in an admin job. So instead she's going to jump to another job in a less financially secure employer, where she has no idea whether she'll even enjoy that job or not. And all that is still fine if you can convince your partner to hop on board...she hasn't.
I haven't seen anyone say she has to keep THIS job...but she apparently won't look for other jobs which would be something different than this job she hates that still pay well. It's a copout to say "this is the only one she got offered" if she's only LOOKING for jobs that would pay this much less because other jobs just don't interest her.
It honestly shocks me that so many people just expect tractor to be ok with a $30k loss in income.
Exactly. While I have no issues in a spouse staying home or taking a lower paying job WITH THEIR SPOUSE ONBOARD, in this case it is so not the case. Maybe her stress taking abilities are just plain lower then tractor? Maybe she cannot handle work pressures the way tractor does? Maybe he is happier at his job because he has figured out what makes it work and how to handle it? Maybe she stresses over things that are ultimately not important? Who is to say. However, instead of trying to find a similar job where she won't have to take a huge paycut she has decided she will do as she pleases. Because tractor got a pay raise so it offsets everything. THAT is a huge issue in my opinion. His hard work does not give her the license to as she please WITHOUT HIM BEING ONBOARD with it. All things are possible in marriage and people take decisions that support their families. But a unilateral decision which makes one spouse very unhappy is definitely not it.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 9:58:47 GMT -5
If a spouse cannot support another when they are so stressed, I don't know what the marriage vows mean. IMO, Money is not everything in life. Will you be able to live without your wife, if something happened to her because of the stress - a break down, a heart attack? I am speaking from experience and that's why I want you to think about what is important. "support" is not the same as "do whatever you feel like doing without even bothering to figure out the consequences of your actions". Support also means stepping back and looking at your actions and wants, and how they are affecting your spouse. If my spouse had a job that was killing him, especially if finances were not critical, I would want them to be happy and less stressed, regardless of money. Tractor's actions have consequences too. What is is going to take for him to realize that an extremely stressful job (and considering she has been looking for 2 years and has had ONE bite) means that she has been trying to maneuver herself into a less stressful situation with not as much success as Tractor would like.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 9:59:04 GMT -5
So find another job that pays similarly. But she's "not interested" in an admin job. So instead she's going to jump to another job in a less financially secure employer, where she has no idea whether she'll even enjoy that job or not. And all that is still fine if you can convince your partner to hop on board...she hasn't.
I haven't seen anyone say she has to keep THIS job...but she apparently won't look for other jobs which would be something different than this job she hates that still pay well. It's a copout to say "this is the only one she got offered" if she's only LOOKING for jobs that would pay this much less because other jobs just don't interest her.
It honestly shocks me that so many people just expect tractor to be ok with a $30k loss in income.
Personally, I think he should be ok with a $30k loss in income. Financially it's not going to be tragic for them. I don't think he should be ok that his wife is just unilaterally deciding to make a $30k/year decision without him agreeing.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 10, 2017 9:59:38 GMT -5
If a spouse cannot support another when they are so stressed, I don't know what the marriage vows mean. IMO, Money is not everything in life. Will you be able to live without your wife, if something happened to her because of the stress - a break down, a heart attack? I am speaking from experience and that's why I want you to think about what is important. "support" is not the same as "do whatever you feel like doing without even bothering to figure out the consequences of your actions". If I decide tomorrow that I am going to reduce my part of the household chores by 40% because they make me miserable, how is it fair to my spouse. Based on this thread he should totally support me because by doing that he will be helping me reduce MY stress. Forget about HIS stress when he has to shoulder that 40%.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 10:01:56 GMT -5
"support" is not the same as "do whatever you feel like doing without even bothering to figure out the consequences of your actions". Support also means stepping back and looking at your actions and wants, and how they are affecting your spouse. If my spouse had a job that was killing him, especially if finances were not critical, I would want them to be happy and less stressed, regardless of money. Tractor's actions have consequences too. What is is going to take for him to realize that an extremely stressful job (and considering she has been looking for 2 years and has had ONE bite) means that she has been trying to maneuver herself into a less stressful situation with not as much success as Tractor would like. Can we stop with all the melodramatics of "killing"? Has anything been suggested that this job is actually killing her? I'm not sure why whenever someone simply doesn't like doing something it has to become all dramatic and exaggerated.
Is that just how overly-dramatic people get their way in things like this?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 10:02:08 GMT -5
It honestly shocks me that so many people just expect tractor to be ok with a $30k loss in income.
Exactly. While I have no issues in a spouse staying home or taking a lower paying job WITH THEIR SPOUSE ONBOARD, in this case it is so not the case. Maybe her stress taking abilities are just plain lower then tractor? Maybe she cannot handle work pressures the way tractor does? Maybe he is happier at his job because he has figured out what makes it work and how to handle it? Maybe she stresses over things that are ultimately not important? Who is to say. However, instead of trying to find a similar job where she won't have to take a huge paycut she has decided she will do as she pleases. Because tractor got a pay raise so it offsets everything. THAT is a huge issue in my opinion. His hard work does not give her the license to as she please WITHOUT HIM BEING ONBOARD with it. All things are possible in marriage and people take decisions that support their families. But a unilateral decision which makes one spouse very unhappy is definitely not it. She has had this job for 23 years. It's not a matter of her being able to handle stress, but the fact that she has dealt with it for so long. Someone posted that 75% of the people burn out in 10 years, that statistic alone should make people stop back and think what kind of job this is that by the time you hit your stride in your profession, the stress of it drives you out.
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