raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 9, 2017 21:50:20 GMT -5
What if she is willing to scale back lifestyle by 10-30k a year to make the switch, but Tractor doesn't want to? (This is hypothetical -- not trying to guess at OP's intentions).
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 9, 2017 21:53:46 GMT -5
What if she is willing to scale back lifestyle by 10-30k a year to make the switch, but Tractor doesn't want to? (This is hypothetical -- not trying to guess at OP's intentions). Then therein will lie the real problem - the different expectations they have and the lack of understanding for the other. IMO anything goes in a marriage as long as BOTH parties agree to it. If not, then one either sucks it up, or the couple focuses on fixing their expectations, both for life and finances.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Aug 9, 2017 22:20:38 GMT -5
What is it about her $70K job that she hates and what can be done about those things?
What makes her think that she will like the $40K per year job better? How sure is she that she won't end up,hatingbthat job just as much?
What financial sacrifices and changes is she willing and able to make if her income is cut by 43%?
Also, are you being realistic about how much of a difference an extra $20K will make in your family? That is only a 14% increase and that is before taxes. It seems to me that you have some pretty lofty expectations for your raise whatbwith paying off all debt, funding your son's education, etc.
Persnally, I never found lower paying jobs to be inherently less stressful in and of themselves. Plus, I always found it easier to tolerate the bullshit that comes with working in the real world when I was better compensated.
Good luck!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 9, 2017 22:56:20 GMT -5
Well, I am married and I earn a high $ income and we are in great shape financially, but even then I would have a problem if my DH unilaterally decided to take a lower paying job. To me, it's a decision that's to be made jointly. Yeah I understand tractor's wife hates her job. But she does not get to make a financial decision BY HERSELF that impacts the family's income or the adds on stress to other earner. ESPECIALLY if tractor is not ok with it. Agree completely (I"ve been agreeing a lot with you lately...hmmm...) Also, if the wife was hating the job so much, she could have been looking all along. It just seems that OP's raise gave her a free range to make a unilateral decision - I wouldn't like that at all!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 5:57:19 GMT -5
Teaching is a special kind of hell if you don't like the environment in which you are working. Accountability can be interpreted a dozen different ways, some of them being "blame the teacher." Differentiation, response to intervention, learning disabilities, accommodations, data-driven lessons, technology and its inclusion . . . sometimes the demands on the teacher are overwhelming. A bad administrator or a bureaucratic central office just makes it worse. Teaching is not like the model that you remember, trust me.
Remember the cheating scandal in Atlanta where the principal pressured the teachers to change students' answers on standardized test scores? The principal held "parties" where the teachers worked in groups to erase answers? That's the kind of environment that drives teachers to retire to a life as a Walmart greeter.
No amount of money offsets that type of stress. Do you know what your wife dislikes so much about her current teaching job? What appeals to her so much about the new position? Listen to her.
ETA: If she is stepping down from special education administration to classroom teacher, that explains the loss in salary better. It also explains the stress. Special education is its own legal nightmare, both for educators and families of these students. You should really make sure you understand what is going on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 6:18:54 GMT -5
Burn out in special ed is 50% at 5 years, 75% at 10. Admin isn't better. I was thinking the same thing SS about possible downgrade in position/responsibilities. Just speaking personally, I'm great, till I'm not. And when I cross that line, the results are spectacular. I'm old enough to know where/when I'm getting close to that line now. So if I tell you I'm there and now is the time I need to bail... the alternative isn't likely to be me resigning myself and sulking off in a corner to accept it gracefully. NOT because I'm vindictive or anything, but because I'm on an edge that is about to crumble and it's not just going to take me out. I think it's a completely different thing when the family unit is raising young kids, or need income to eat, or are massively in debt... that's not the case here. I see this as one adult in a mature partnership being able to self actualize, and the other being told that her needs and desires and possibly her health aren't nearly as important as her $. Not trying to be mean, just showing the other perspective from 'this is why I could never be married ... it's a two way street.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 10, 2017 6:47:16 GMT -5
Awesome, everything that ha been mentioned is exactly what I have had going through my mind the past week.
I'll try to answer a few questions, but first understand that I'm a selfish, greedy, generous person. I would never turn down a chance to make more $, but I take great joy in giving it away. We gave away 20% of our income last year, that's the first thing I will have to cut, so our bills will be covered, but not being able to give as much away bothers me the most.
Now on to my wife, as others have mentioned she is a special education teacher with 23 years in experience in an EI classroom, something that normally has a high burn out rate. She has been looking to change fir a couple of years, multiple applications and interviews, most of the time she misses out due to her years of service, and the way the union contracts are structured. With this new job, she will still be in an EI classroom, just getting paid like a new hire, instead of someone with 23 years experience. Saying she has a high stress job is an understatement, and that I understand, but she has no idea if the new position will be any better, just less pay in a different environment. If she ends up working just as much, for almost 1/2 the pay it's a lose-lose situation. There's no way to know until she gets into it.
More later...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 6:54:25 GMT -5
First, you are down 10k... you don't have to give up giving.
Second, if you told me I had to keep my high stress job I've done for 23 years now that my family is grown and we will only be net down 10k SO THAT YOU CAN STILL GIVE MORE MONEY to other people... well then I guess I know where you value me, my health and my well being.
She can retire in 2 years?
The first year of a switch is rejuvenating just by being different. You need to learn new things, etc. If it's as stressful she can move again.
What state are are you in? Could she test into a different certification?
How much of her her stress is administration related?
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 10, 2017 6:57:38 GMT -5
I have been trying to figure things out, but in general I guess I'm kind of in shock that anyone would switch to an identical job for 1/2 the pay based on a feeling (she said her new principal seemed nice). My hope is that it works out for her, she used to work 16 hour days, six days a week just to keep up with all the paperwork, lesson plans and general BS. If things work like she hopes, she should have some more time to help out around the house, as it is now, any break she gets involves either going away with friends, or sleeping all day. I've never really cared about that because she was working so hard. This is one change I expect her to make. When she has off time, she needs to help around the house, no more running away.
My job will require me to spend more time away from home, but if things go as planned, I will take over for my boss when he retires next year, effectively doubling my salary. That's still off in the distance, but the odds are in my favor. My financial pain may be short lived.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 10, 2017 7:01:55 GMT -5
OK, last one for now. Her pension is based on her salary, so the decrease in pay will have a long-term effect on her retirement. So it's more than just the take home pay that will impact us. I know we'll be OK in retirement, just not as good as we would be if she stayed in the higher paying position. All other benefits come from my employer, so there's very little change there.
I'm going to have to deal with it rather I want to or not, but it doesn't stop me from struggling with it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 7:07:52 GMT -5
I have been trying to figure things out, but in general I guess I'm kind of in shock that anyone would switch to an identical job for 1/2 the pay based on a feeling (she said her new principal seemed nice). My hope is that it works out for her, she used to work 16 hour days, six days a week just to keep up with all the paperwork, lesson plans and general BS. If things work like she hopes, she should have some more time to help out around the house, as it is now, any break she gets involves either going away with friends, or sleeping all day. I've never really cared about that because she was working so hard. This is one change I expect her to make. When she has off time, she needs to help around the house, no more running away. My job will require me to spend more time away from home, but if things go as planned, I will take over for my boss when he retires next year, effectively doubling my salary. That's still off in the distance, but the odds are in my favor. My financial pain may be short lived. And that seems reasonable, if her job requirements less time, her home ones pick up, and just at the time you can do less home tasks... that's a partnership. Can I ask how the perameters of this job are different? As you indicate they are the same? I'm trying to understand.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 10, 2017 7:11:48 GMT -5
Oped, her current job is in a residential program with 12-15 court sentenced kids, some of the worst to deal with (and no parapros). The new position is in an elementary school, with K-5 aged kids with two other support staff in the classroom. Both require EI certification.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 7:12:37 GMT -5
Is her pension final years average or highest years average? Ours is average of three highest.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 10, 2017 7:25:22 GMT -5
she has no idea if the new position will be any better, just less pay in a different environment. If she ends up working just as much, for almost 1/2 the pay it's a lose-lose situation. There's no way to know until she gets into it. Of all the things that have been mentioned, this would be the largest area of concern for me.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 7:44:15 GMT -5
It sounds a lot like "I hate my job, so ANY other job will do, even if it's an even worse job for less pay that's less stable". The decision itself seems poor on the surface, but the real problem is that it is a significant decision that affects the family being made by only 1 person when the other doesn't necessarily agree.
Any outcome here seems reasonable in terms of finances as long as a married couple agree on it. The problem isn't the outcome necessarily, it is that one person is deciding the family is going to take a significant financial hit without the consent of the other.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 7:47:21 GMT -5
The first year, like I said, the huge change (court appointed older kids to younger elementary school kids) the novelty for want of a better word is likely to make motivation and engagement better... even if there are different stressors.
The population, and the addition of trained assistance, (probably fewer kids?) is also likely to aleiviate stress to some degree.
Its true that it will likely still be stressful. But sometimes the evil you know becomes too much and the risk is worth it.
Again, I'm reading this not as choice to stay or choice to go... but choice to go or choice to implode... I'm reading in my own stuff... but tractor could approach his wife with those questions.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 10, 2017 7:49:04 GMT -5
But you and the tractors aren't in the same space in life or situation. If the kids were grown and husband got a job making 20k that he loved and you said, great, now I can give up some of the stress and long hours... and he said, whoa nelly, I have plans for that money... you keep the stressful job... Even if we didn't have the kids, and it was DH and I, we'd still need to gross more than 35K a year. We live in a MCOLA. We did that for a while, and that afforded us a small condo in one of the poorer neighborhoods in the city. I'd want to move out of a neighborhood that boasted folks doing drugs on the street during the daytime hours, guns going off as fairly normal, the occasional largest drug bust in the county (that was for coke), and the occasional murder. So, I'd argue that DH is still my family, and it would be better for me to work more so that we got out of such a neighborhood.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 10, 2017 7:49:35 GMT -5
She needs to look for a different job, period. No pay cuts and less stress. She's got what? 7 years to go for 30 years. I worked the job from hell for 3 years knowing that it would provide for me in the end better. I didn't have a man for a plan backup. I agree that she needs to continue searching but I don't agree with her decision to leave a better paying job until she does. If she's spending that many days and hours on her job, something is wrong and it sounds like time management. I have been one and know plenty of teachers in special education and no one spends that amount of time, not even close.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 7:51:18 GMT -5
But it isn't a worse job... give me elementary EI with two trained aides over court appointed residential EI with no assistance any day of the week.
She has interviewed a lot and this is the offer she got. There is no guarantee another is coming soon.
Again... why can one make a decision about finances (which do not make the family destitute) but one can make mental health and happiness decisions for the other.
There are different parameters to which I would give different responses, but in this situation, I'd definitely support the job change barring any additional information.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 7:51:59 GMT -5
But you and the tractors aren't in the same space in life or situation. If the kids were grown and husband got a job making 20k that he loved and you said, great, now I can give up some of the stress and long hours... and he said, whoa nelly, I have plans for that money... you keep the stressful job... Even if we didn't have the kids, and it was DH and I, we'd still need to gross more than 35K a year. We live in a MCOLA. We did that for a while, and that afforded us a small condo in one of the poorer neighborhoods in the city. I'd want to move out of a neighborhood that boasted folks doing drugs on the street during the daytime hours, guns going off as fairly normal, the occasional largest drug bust in the county (that was for coke), and the occasional murder. So, I'd argue that DH is still my family, and it would be better for me to work more so that we got out of such a neighborhood. Again though, that is not the tractors situation.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Aug 10, 2017 7:52:19 GMT -5
Oped, her current job is in a residential program with 12-15 court sentenced kids, some of the worst to deal with (and no parapros). The new position is in an elementary school, with K-5 aged kids with two other support staff in the classroom. Both require EI certification. I can see why the new job should be a lot less stressful, just from what you said. Elementary vs residential, 2 support vs none. My guess is there will also be more resources in the elementary and perhaps shorter school days. That being said, I don't know how I would feel about her just making the decision, but I also would wonder how often has she said in the years past that as soon as something comes along to allow her to change she is going too, and how many time during those time you said sure honey since it more of a in the future thing vs a now thing. But once you got the promotion to her that seemed as the something, while you didn't see it as the something for a change.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 7:56:02 GMT -5
One person is deciding unilaterally here, regardless. It's just assumed it should be she who gives in, because it should be $$$, that gets to be the decider above all else. Regardless of the situation.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 10, 2017 7:56:15 GMT -5
she has no idea if the new position will be any better, just less pay in a different environment. If she ends up working just as much, for almost 1/2 the pay it's a lose-lose situation. There's no way to know until she gets into it. Of all the things that have been mentioned, this would be the largest area of concern for me. Plus tractor said that she's moving to a less financially viable district...though with being in special ed, I'm sure her position is safer. (But there are still ways the lack of funds could negatively affect her.) My DH is always looking around for new jobs. His jobs are dependent on either grants or the state budget. If he talks about applying with me (which he always does)..my response is generally always: "Great! Make sure you ask about the stability of funding in the interview. As long as they can say as long as it's a stable position go for it! Making $1-2/hour more isn't worth it if you are out of a job in 9 months."
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 7:57:47 GMT -5
But it isn't a worse job... give me elementary EI with two trained aides over court appointed residential EI with no assistance any day of the week. She has interviewed a lot and this is the offer she got. There is no guarantee another is coming soon. Again... why can one make a decision about finances (which do not make the family destitute) but one can make mental health and happiness decisions for the other. There are different parameters to which I would give different responses, but in this situation, I'd definitely support the job change barring any additional information. Why can he make a decision alone and she can't? Because to make a significant change to the situation you've both agreed to (and they've both agreed to the current situation by the act of having these jobs), you need both to consent.
Nobody is saying she can't find a DIFFERENT job...people are suggesting it shouldn't be up to her to unilaterally decide to make a big financial sacrifice that her partner doesn't necessarily agree to.
Similarly, tractor shouldn't be able to go out and decide that his happiness would be improved by blowing $100K on a fun new sports car that his wife is pissed about.
She's essentially "spending" $30k/year without his approval.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 8:00:02 GMT -5
One person is deciding unilaterally here, regardless. It's just assumed it should be she who gives in, because it should be $$$, that gets to be the decider above all else. Regardless of the situation. I don't think it's the $$$, at least not in my eyes. It's about changing from the current agreement needing both consent. If the question was tractor wants to take a new job that pays double what he makes now...but that action is going to make his wife miserable because it means being gone more, working more hours, more stress, whatever...then he shouldn't do it. It's not that $$$ overrides anything, it's that they have this agreement in place, and changing that should require more consent that not changing it...regardless of what that particular change is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 8:04:42 GMT -5
She has been applying. She just got an offer at the same time he got a raise. I'd be saying awesome sauce.
So he can agree to a promotion that keeps him out of the house more alone, because it's more $... but she can't make her own decision? What if she says, nope, you can't take the promotion because you need to be home to do tasks.. that the current situation we've agreed to.
She has looked for a different job. She hasn't gotten any offers but this one. She is not terribly attractive at her current income level frankly. It's very likely she won't get a nicer job at her current pay. That's just the nature of the business.
Is all spending in your household by agreement tractor? Giving too?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 8:06:11 GMT -5
Tractor can you clarify the less financially stable district thing? Is it just a lower income district/lower paying? Or is there some instability that it might continue to exist?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 8:07:42 GMT -5
She has been applying. She just got an offer at the same time he got a raise. I'd be saying awesome sauce. So he can agree to a promotion that keeps him out of the house more alone, because it's more $... but she can't make her own decision? What if she says, nope, you can't take the promotion because you need to be home to do tasks.. that the current situation we've agreed to. She has looked for a different job. She hasn't gotten any offers but this one. She is not terribly attractive at her current income level frankly. It's very likely she won't get a nicer job at her current pay. That's just the nature of the business. Is all spending in your household by agreement tractor? Giving too? Then I think that's well within her rights. I don't think either of them have the right to make unilateral decisions to change their current agreement, whether those decisions are for more or less money.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 10, 2017 8:10:29 GMT -5
It's moot at this point, the school year has started in most places. I'd be royally pissed and see this as something more than it seems on the surface. Good luck, Tractor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 8:15:06 GMT -5
And if I'd put in 23 years of 16 hour days dealing with the most damaged children and, now that my kids are grown, and we are financially secure, and I have an opportunity to change jobs to a less stressful position, and my husband told me no, I can't, mostly because he doesn't want to stop being generous to other people with his $... pissed wouldn't begin to describe it....
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