Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 7, 2017 13:06:47 GMT -5
No, my post was in response to those who were saying some co workers used leave friviolously and then needed donations when something bad happened.
Obviously if you need to take off you need to take off. But I don't understand calling in just because you don't feel like going into work that day. I have a good attendance record and I plan to keep in that way. At the same time, I will take my vacation and travel comp that I'm owed.
I try not to use sick leave though if I can help it. But I understand sometimes you can't avoid it, especially if you have sick kids.
I view my sick leave as a short term disability, not to be squandered but to be saved for when I really need it. If I need time off for pleasure, I have other options.
That really depends on your employer. Dh had an employer that gave two weeks sick time per year, you used it or you lost it. Since it was not bankable and Nebraska does not pay out sick leave upon termination of employment so people used it. I'm not going to get mad at people who took advantage of the system as it was designed. On the other hand I can bank 1000+ hours of sick time. So I hoarded it all for maternity leave. I can also get up to 250 hours of vacation and 24 floating holiday. Sounds like I'm pretty fortunate. Our sick leave accrues at a rate of 4 hours per pay period (2 weeks) and there is no limit to how much we can bank.
Furthermore, whatever sick leave you don't use gets added into your length of service when figuring your pension. If you save your sick leave, you can get over an extra year of service with your pension. That can be an additional 1.1% of your high three for the rest of your live.
Plus I figure I'll need it if I ever need any major medical procedure or surgery. It just pays to keep it around.
But I understand some places almost incentivize you to take it if you'll lose it. That sounds like MPL's employer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 13:08:09 GMT -5
I view my sick leave as a short term disability, not to be squandered but to be saved for when I really need it. If I need time off for pleasure, I have other options.
Not everyone is allowed to save it though. We're maxed out at 40 hours. Not even enough time to cover the two week wait period before short-term disability kicks in. I'm told this is because they felt by if people were allowed to bank, they'd never call in even if they were really sick and shouldn't be here. Same deal with vacation, that if they didn't have a use it/lose it rule people wouldn't take time off and they feel it's necessary for our mental health. I suspect it really has more to do with the business aspect and the numbers on the spreadsheet of a publicly traded company at the end of the year.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Aug 7, 2017 13:10:36 GMT -5
I've been taking mental health days off since 1999 when I quit working entirely. I don't think it's working though.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 7, 2017 13:12:13 GMT -5
I think it's just hard to come up with a universal leave system that pleases everyone.
If you have "use or lose" and can't bank much sick leave it forces people to use it when they may not need it.
If you incentivize not taking sick leave by offering a carrot for not taking sick leave, you run the risk of people not taking sick leave when they really should. This can be a public health hazard or hurt productivity at worst.
If you just put people on the honor system some people will abuse it.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Aug 7, 2017 13:37:14 GMT -5
My company provides 10 use it or lose it sick days per year. I have taking exactly 2 sick days in 16 years. Maybe I am an idiot for not calling in sick all 160 days. Regardless, not everyone feels a need to just take days in a use or lose situation.
As a manager, if somebody says they need a mental health day, I take that as they are caught up and would like to take the day off and count it as a sick day. Fine with me.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 7, 2017 13:39:34 GMT -5
So, because you only have to call in 1-2 times a year that should be the norm? What if someone has kids? Odds are each one of them is going to be home sick a couple days a year. Not much you can do about that a lot of times but call in. Then there are people with medical issues. Before I got a meds regime that worked for me I would have debilitating migraines at least once a month. If I didn't have the time I'd show up, but I was pretty worthless. Running to the bathroom to throw up or just sit in a stall with a sweatshirt pulled up over my head. So awful. No, my post was in response to those who were saying some co workers used leave friviolously and then needed donations when something bad happened.
Obviously if you need to take off you need to take off. But I don't understand calling in just because you don't feel like going into work that day. I have a good attendance record and I plan to keep in that way. At the same time, I will take my vacation and travel comp that I'm owed.
I try not to use sick leave though if I can help it. But I understand sometimes you can't avoid it, especially if you have sick kids.
I view my sick leave as a short term disability, not to be squandered but to be saved for when I really need it. If I need time off for pleasure, I have other options.
I was this way too, and the 6 months I had accrued DID work well as my STD when I got sick. However, many companies have a 'use it or lose it' and do not roll over sick time.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 7, 2017 13:44:43 GMT -5
I think it's just hard to come up with a universal leave system that pleases everyone.
If you have "use or lose" and can't bank much sick leave it forces people to use it when they may not need it.
If you incentivize not taking sick leave by offering a carrot for not taking sick leave, you run the risk of people not taking sick leave when they really should. This can be a public health hazard or hurt productivity at worst.
If you just put people on the honor system some people will abuse it.
Therein lies the problem. At my second job, I got no sick leave. If you were sick, you took time off and that was it. In the 5 years I worked here, no one abused the policy. However, at my last job we got sufficient vacation and sick time, and I had an employee that took off every single day as she earned it. She had a heart problem, needed a stent and had no time. At the time, I mentioned to her that while we could not ding her on taking all of her sick time, if push came to shove and a decision had to be made as to which employee to keep in a budget crunch, she wasn't going to win. A coworker of mine called me last month and told me that she had been let go, and it was exactly for this reason.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 7, 2017 13:57:13 GMT -5
I think work ethic/rule follower is partly personality, though.
I turned out just fine..with getting a mental heath day once a year or so when I was younger. I mean, I get responsibility and work ethic and all that.
I also think kids are astute enough to know the difference between a special treat and an expected thing.
My kids are average kids..but they get the concept pretty well when I explain it to them of this is a treat, and why.
Maybe the difference is that I'm not a career person. I've never identified with the fact that my job is the thing that defines me as a success or failure. And it's my job that comes first over everything else.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 7, 2017 14:02:06 GMT -5
I'd rather people take more "mental health days" than come back and shoot up the place.
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on Aug 7, 2017 15:31:00 GMT -5
We have a pretty generous leave policy at my job, but you need to use it or lose it. You can carry over 40 hours into the new year but if you have more than that it goes "poof"! We used to be able to accrue up to 190 hours per year and could sell back any time in excess of that at $.50 to the dollar, but not many people did that either. We have some people who can't take any leave who will lose it at the end of the year. Our company is going through some changes right now and leave is not being approved for some people. Thankfully not me, but those who can't take it will lose out.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 7, 2017 15:36:45 GMT -5
I'd rather people take more "mental health days" than come back and shoot up the place. This was my policy when I worked for the federal government. There were days when I felt like that so I took a mental health day. I'm retired now so every day is a mental health day. I was glad I was not employed last winter as I was so sick with the gallbladder issues, I would have taken off so much time, I would have had to quit a seasonal tax prep job.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 7, 2017 17:59:03 GMT -5
I never understood people who call in all the time. I call in MAYBE 1-2 times a year. Showing up to work isn't that hard to me but I guess YMMV. So, because you only have to call in 1-2 times a year that should be the norm? What if someone has kids? Odds are each one of them is going to be home sick a couple days a year. Not much you can do about that a lot of times but call in. Then there are people with medical issues. Before I got a meds regime that worked for me I would have debilitating migraines at least once a month. If I didn't have the time I'd show up, but I was pretty worthless. Running to the bathroom to throw up or just sit in a stall with a sweatshirt pulled up over my head. So awful. You would hate me. I maybe call in once every 10-15 years. Currently we can carry over 56 hours. Anything over that gets cashed out at year-end. I remember getting some nice checks in January. I always figured that if I could walk, I could work. Any number of times I would get to work, be told that someone wasn't there that day, and say, "Damn, when is it MY turn to call in sick?" Prompting laughter from management, of course.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 18:22:01 GMT -5
So, because you only have to call in 1-2 times a year that should be the norm? What if someone has kids? Odds are each one of them is going to be home sick a couple days a year. Not much you can do about that a lot of times but call in. Then there are people with medical issues. Before I got a meds regime that worked for me I would have debilitating migraines at least once a month. If I didn't have the time I'd show up, but I was pretty worthless. Running to the bathroom to throw up or just sit in a stall with a sweatshirt pulled up over my head. So awful. You would hate me. I maybe call in once every 10-15 years. Currently we can carry over 56 hours. Anything over that gets cashed out at year-end. I remember getting some nice checks in January. I always figured that if I could walk, I could work. Any number of times I would get to work, be told that someone wasn't there that day, and say, "Damn, when is it MY turn to call in sick?" Prompting laughter from management, of course. Yeah...not quite sure why you'd think I'd hate you for that?
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Aug 7, 2017 18:26:44 GMT -5
I took a day or two off when my marriage imploded. After the shock wore off I welcomed the distraction of work. I had planned time off the following week for our anniversary and worked it instead. I could probably count the number of sick days I have taken over the last 10 years on one hand. Now I work from home and don't really have as much dedicated time off so I just get my work done and take a break as necessary. As for hooky days when I was in grade school, they used to threaten to hold me back every year if I missed another day.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 7, 2017 18:38:23 GMT -5
as long as the people with perfect attendance aren't sneezing/hacking/spreading their germs around the workplace.... No one wants sick people infecting everyone because they feel they have to come in every day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 19:01:47 GMT -5
If you have "use or lose" and can't bank much sick leave it forces people to use it when they may not need it.
"Forces"? I don't think so. I didn't have good decisions' track record of 2 sick days in 16 years but it was perfectly normal for me to go two to three years without taking a sick day. I'm healthy, thank God, and did not feel "forced" to take fake sick days out of some sense of entitlement. My last employer was the only one that let you bank part of your sick days, which I really appreciated but never needed.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Aug 7, 2017 19:15:09 GMT -5
In my younger years I never missed a day, and that was working two jobs and going to school. Now? Meh.
If I need a day, I take it. If I need to, or want to, leave early I do. I never do so if I have an appointment or I'm up against a deadline. I work long, difficult hours for a great portion of the year and have always been flexible with coming in on weekends and working late. I work in a small office and the partners don't care as long as we get our work done and the office has coverage.
I might feel differently if I had a straight 40 hour per week job, paid holidays that I could actually take advantage of all of them, etc. As it is I may take 1 or 2 mental health days per year, usually after a deadline when I've been working nonstop and am just exhausted and run down. I'm more likely to go into the office, put out any fires and assess if it matters if I skip out after a couple of hours.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 19:16:36 GMT -5
If you have "use or lose" and can't bank much sick leave it forces people to use it when they may not need it.
"Forces"? I don't think so. I didn't have good decisions' track record of 2 sick days in 16 years but it was perfectly normal for me to go two to three years without taking a sick day. I'm healthy, thank God, and did not feel "forced" to take fake sick days out of some sense of entitlement. My last employer was the only one that let you bank part of your sick days, which I really appreciated but never needed. I am ENTITLED to 5 sick days a year. It's stated right there in my employee handbook. I don't see any reason that sickly people or ones with a dozen kids should be allowed more paid time off then a healthy single person. So, if I have to lower the bar on what I consider sick (like sick of work) so be it. I also don't think anyone gets extra credit in life for never taking any sick days. It's not the badge of honor to me. But, I only work to fund my life. I'm not a focused career person.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 7, 2017 19:22:46 GMT -5
You would hate me. I maybe call in once every 10-15 years. Currently we can carry over 56 hours. Anything over that gets cashed out at year-end. I remember getting some nice checks in January. I always figured that if I could walk, I could work. Any number of times I would get to work, be told that someone wasn't there that day, and say, "Damn, when is it MY turn to call in sick?" Prompting laughter from management, of course. Yeah...not quite sure why you'd think I'd hate you for that? Was that serious or sarcastic? If it was serious, I would suggest that if you took issue with someone stating they maybe called in once or twice a year and asking if that should be the norm, that once every 10-15 years is a bit less than that....
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 7, 2017 19:26:49 GMT -5
I don't think anyone takes issue with people with near perfect work attendance. I DO take issue with: a) sick people coming into work and being useless just for the sake of saying they came in b) people thinking they are somehow better than others who take more unplanned days off than they do
As long as you are doing your share of the work and you're not irresponsibly burning through PTO/sick time, I see no problem taking a mental health day every now and then. There is no prize for never missing work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 19:27:03 GMT -5
We get two personal days a year and 9 sick days. But there are also 3 additional personal days that you have to pay for the sub; if you don't use them, then they convert to sick days. It's a really strange system that encourages people to use sick days over the 3 additional personal days.
That said, I usually take 1 personal day a year. I often make it my birthday. My ex's company gave them their birthday off as a floating holiday, and I thought that was so awesome. But I don't do it if I have taken a lot of sick leave. For example, last year I broke my arm two days before my birthday. So I got my birthday off . . . with a surgical bonus.
I try to conserve sick leave. I am a goody-two shoes most of the time, and sick leave is supposed to be when you are sick. However, I get more days off scattered through the year than most of you guys do. I earn some of them by doing professional development in the summer. I think it's great to trade a day in a week when I'm not doing anything else for a day in February or April. Our school district thinks it's a great trade because they no longer pay someone to come in to do professional development. Either way, we work the days.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 7, 2017 19:44:01 GMT -5
Not if you define it as "calling in". I usually pre-schedule them. When I feel myself getting to the point I know I'm going to need one, I schedule a day off. Otherwise I mostly choose to work from home on those days and just do something that would be a little treat to myself (sleeping in, long lunch, cut out a little early).
Taking a day off would probably just stress me out more because if we're talking about work being the stressor, then that just puts me another day behind. If something non-work is the stressor, then I find work to be a nice escape.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 19:47:17 GMT -5
Yeah...not quite sure why you'd think I'd hate you for that? Was that serious or sarcastic? If it was serious, I would suggest that if you took issue with someone stating they maybe called in once or twice a year and asking if that should be the norm, that once every 10-15 years is a bit less than that.... I didn't take issue with someone stating they called in once or twice a year. I took issue with the "I don't know why anyone would ever need more than that" part.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 7, 2017 19:54:11 GMT -5
I used to take them. Not because of my students but my coworkers and my principal made the work environment toxic
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 7, 2017 20:18:05 GMT -5
I know I would not have needed as many if I were still working for the government today because they can work from home. That only happened about the last year of my years of working.
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Aug 7, 2017 20:29:45 GMT -5
I take a mental health day once or twice a year, but I do have call them sick days and I have no problem with it. I've earned my time off and as long as I don't abuse it, I'm good.
I do earn 160 vacation hours a year with loosing anything over 300, so I do make sure to use it. Sick time is 104 hours a year maxing out at 1040 until loosing it. Right now I have 13 weeks of time saved between the two.
When I leave on good terms and a 2 week notice, vacation pays out at 100% of my hourly wage and sick pays out at 50% of my hourly wage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 21:41:08 GMT -5
I don't think anyone takes issue with people with near perfect work attendance. I DO take issue with: a) sick people coming into work and being useless just for the sake of saying they came in b) people thinking they are somehow better than others who take more unplanned days off than they do As long as you are doing your share of the work and you're not irresponsibly burning through PTO/sick time, I see no problem taking a mental health day every now and then. There is no prize for never missing work.I learned that a long time ago. Before we were bought out 15 years ago or so we used to be able to accrue a lot more time so I hoarded. I remember one year at my review I scored a 4/5 on attendance. I was like "WTH?" I hadn't missed a day the entire year, never left early, never so much as punched in a minute late and worked over 300 hours of OT that year as well (pre-kids for sure!). I argued and was told "Nobody gets a 5". That was just one of the many times over the years that beat into me that as far as corporate is concerned I'm just a number...and our review system is BS. In the end if there's a RIF, they won't care if you were one that used 5 sick days or 0. I worked with a guy that missed all his kids stuff. He would never even try to take off for any of it, we're talking some big things too. Volunteered for coming in on weekends, and staying late all the time. Well, he got let go and here I still am...pissed off that it wasn't me.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 7, 2017 22:29:11 GMT -5
We seem to be confusing simply playing hooky with a true mental health day here. You know, because perhaps mental health problems are real, so we don't need to dismiss them so readily.
I know people like to use the term with a wink and a nod, but Phoenix defined it for us as something more than just a break to have fun. In that case, how could it possibly be unethical to use time for it?
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 7, 2017 23:53:06 GMT -5
We seem to be confusing simply playing hooky with a true mental health day here. You know, because perhaps mental health problems are real, so we don't need to dismiss them so readily. I know people like to use the term with a wink and a nod, but Phoenix defined it for us as something more than just a break to have fun. In that case, how could it possibly be unethical to use time for it? I dunno. I don't necessarily lump decompressing/de-stressing/relaxing to be the same thing as attending to mental health issues. That's not to say that mental health issues aren't legit. Or that needing a break isn't legit. I just see them as two separate things. I haven't seen a huge amount of mental health issues...so I can't say with certainty that taking a day off of work once a year is an effective way to treat issues. But, for the mental health issues I've seen personally...relaxing/decompressing/destressing once year is not enough to be an effective treatment.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 8, 2017 8:03:40 GMT -5
I don't think anyone takes issue with people with near perfect work attendance. I DO take issue with: a) sick people coming into work and being useless just for the sake of saying they came in b) people thinking they are somehow better than others who take more unplanned days off than they do As long as you are doing your share of the work and you're not irresponsibly burning through PTO/sick time, I see no problem taking a mental health day every now and then. There is no prize for never missing work. Nope there isn't. When the money ran out I was kicked to the curb without so much as a thank you. It will happen again eventually with this job. I've been starting to realize that I don't get a whole lot in return for working myself ragged and being super duper loyal to my job.
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